Support NeoGAF

[Tak3n]

Remember when Osborne released the lock on councils increasing the tax, on the proviso it went on services and social care, well it turns out the living wage is actually sucking up the extra raised from the increases, and services will not be improving....

How much is yours, we currently pay £180 a month

Ms Seccombe said an extra £1.3bn was needed for social care in the next financial year alone.
And while the council tax rises would raise about £600m, she said that would be swallowed up by paying higher wages to existing staff more when the National Living Wage comes into effect.
Lord Porter, chairman of the LGA, said social care faced a funding gap of £2.6bn by 2020.
"Extra council tax income will not bring in anywhere near enough money to alleviate the growing pressure on social care both now and in the future and the social care precept raises different amounts of money in different parts of the country," he said.
"It cannot be left to council taxpayers alone to try and fix this crisis."

Council leaders are warning of deep cuts to services despite nearly every local authority in England planning to raise council tax in 2017.
Increases of up to 4.99% are expected across the country, but libraries, bin collections and other services will still face funding gaps.
The Local Government Association says the cost of care for increasing numbers of elderly people is forcing up bills.
The government insists it is giving more money to councils.

What services could be hit?
As councils across England tighten their belts, there is a huge raft of services that could be squeezed further.
The services they provide range running recycling centres and organising bin collections through to tackling anti-social behaviour and controlling adoption services.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38982643

 

[Maledict]

Um, wages are a significant part of the spend on social care. Even if you contract out your services procurement law means the contractor had to up their wages for local authorities, and the vast bulk of care home provision is paid at minimum wage levels (it's a shocking disgrace).

I'm not sure what your point is here. We spend far too little on social care for elderly people. We pay peanuts for the unpleasant jobs it entails, then act surprised when abuse and poor service come to light. The gap between what's needed and what is available is so large as to be unbridgeable without government intervention.

Local authorities, by the treasuries own figures, bore the brunt of austerity. They took cuts far, far greater than the rest of the public sector, because it's really easy for Whitehall to impose cuts on local authorities as the national government doesn't get blamed when your local council reduces your bin collections. Combine that with the fucking stupid plan to make local authorities fund themselves and it's likely we'll see a council go bankrupt in this parliament.

 

[RetroDLC]

 

[sammyCYBORG]

£180?!

I pay £95 and feel mugged. Fortnighly black bin collections, bad roads, shit street lights..

 

[kiri]

In central London, paying £110 a month for the whole apartment. It's cheaper here than in central Bristol!

 

[hodgy100]

i only pay £85

But as already said. Social care workers get incredibly underpaid and have terrible working conditions. I'm not mad at my money going towards that.

This is due to continual cuts by the government to social care services meaning that local governments are having to pony up the cash instead

https://www.theguardian.com/society...care-risk-england-councils-face-1bn-shortfall

http://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/government-cuts/

I dated a woman that worked in social care for a bit last year they had to put up with shitty long hours, low pay and no proper breaks (they got out of that by saying the time you take to travel between patients is your "break") she used to go the entire day without eating because when she wasn't caring for someone she was travelling to her next patient, so there was never time to stop and eat. Also her travelling time was technically unpaid, they would get around that by saying you would get paid back in fuel used :/ Frankly her working conditions were disgusting.

 

[danowat]

My wife works for the LCC / NHS, and they are treated and paid terribly.

Something has got to be done about it.

 

[Tak3n]

Um, wages are a significant part of the spend on social care. Even if you contract out your services procurement law means the contractor had to up their wages for local authorities, and the vast bulk of care home provision is paid at minimum wage levels (it's a shocking disgrace).

I'm not sure what your point is here. We spend far too little on social care for elderly people. We pay peanuts for the unpleasant jobs it entails, then act surprised when abuse and poor service come to light. The gap between what's needed and what is available is so large as to be unbridgeable without government intervention.

Local authorities, by the treasuries own figures, bore the brunt of austerity. They took cuts far, far greater than the rest of the public sector, because it's really easy for Whitehall to impose cuts on local authorities as the national government doesn't get blamed when your local council reduces your bin collections. Combine that with the fucking stupid plan to make local authorities fund themselves and it's likely we'll see a council go bankrupt in this parliament.

Pretty much your point really, just pointing out the lie from Osbourne and that services have not and will not be improving and I also agree the wages are a disgrace, there is a real disconnect in society where people will pay more for someone to look after their dog than they would their child/elderly relative

 

[Zaph]

£196/mo and we just received a letter kindly letting us know if we want garden waste pickup to continue, there's a new annual charge. How nice of them...

I think the next 10 years are going to be the most tumultuous in post-war British history. The cost of living continues to sky-rocket, while wages stagnate, and a severe drop in GDP looms. It's going to make current budget shortfalls look cute.

 

[Tak3n]

£196/mo and we just received a letter kindly letting us know if we want garden waste pickup to continue, there's a new annual charge. How nice of them...

I think the next 10 years are going to be the most tumultuous in post-war British history. The cost of living continues to sky-rocket, while wages stagnate, and a severe drop in GDP looms. It's going to make current budget shortfalls look cute.

we have had to pay for Garden waste bins for years now, the latest idea from our council is to go to 3 weekly bin collection to save money, getting bloody stupid

 

[H.Protagonist]

£180? Ha. I think ours is £250 or something.

 

[Omikaru]

My other half works for my local authority, and for a while worked in social services. Considering some of the horrible shit they have to deal with, these people are disgustingly underpaid.

Local government should be able to attract the best employees to all their departments. If you make better hires, you get better run services. Also, giving council employees a living wage (which my local authority has started doing) is also a great way of boosting morale, as their full time staff has fewer out of work pressures on them.

I'm sure there'll be "fury" about this, because some people hate the idea of others getting a pay raise (instead of spending their energy on organising at their own workplace) and would relish in watching some overworked civil servant lose their living wage and watch their kids go hungry. It's a bitter, nasty and destructive attitude to have. These people serve our communities, and we should cherish the work they do.

Disclosure: I live in Wales and things are run better here. Considering the wrecking ball the Tories have been swinging in England, I'm not surprised everything is under immense pressure. You guys pay a lot in council tax and seem to get fuck all to show for it*.

*unless you live in a Tory council, in which case you will be offered sweetheart deals by Westminster to not do anything embarrassing for The Conservative Party.

 

[electricshake]

We pay £200 but only 10 months of the year (Glasgow is weird).

 

[liquidtmd]

My other half works for my local authority, and for a while worked in social services. Considering some of the horrible shit they have to deal with, these people are disgustingly underpaid.

Local government should be able to attract the best employees to all their departments. If you make better hires, you get better run services. Also, giving council employees a living wage (which my local authority has started doing) is also a great way of boosting morale, as their full time staff has fewer pressures on them.

I'm sure there'll be "fury" about this, because some people hate the idea of others getting a pay raise (instead of spending their energy on organising at their own workplace) and would relish in watching some overworked civil servant lose their living wage and watch their kids go hungry. It's a bitter, nasty and destructive attitude to have. These people serve our communities, and we should cherish the work they do.

Disclosure: I live in Wales and things are run better here. Considering the wrecking ball the Tories have been swinging in England, I'm not surprised everything is under immense pressure. You guys pay a lot in council tax and seem to get fuck all to show for it*.

*unless you live in a Tory council, in which case you will be offered sweetheart deals by Westminster to not do anything embarrassing for The Conservative Party.

It's more a fury that the council can just keep raising rates irrespective of any tangible improvements, or indeed slashing to existing services.

 

[Maledict]

We pay £200 but only 10 months of the year (Glasgow is weird).

From memory i think most councils do this. Ours does in central London.

 

[Zaph]

£180? Ha. I think ours is £250 or something.

christ, I knew some places exceeded £3000/year, but I thought it was rare.

 

[theaface]

Oh well. At least we'll be a lot better off soon when we stop sending the unelected EU bureaucrats £350m a week, which will instead be used to fund our NHS, local authorities and social services.

Spoiler

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Social workers are fucking saints, and they get paid absolute shit, as do 90% of people in councils.

The blame for this goes to that twat Osborne for the ridiculous austerity policies that have damaged social welfare and the economy.

 

[Maledict]

It's more a fury that the council can just keep raising rates irrespective of any tangible improvements, or indeed slashing to existing services.

Because the rising cost of providing social care at the current levels is far greater than these increases, and indeed is beyond the budgets of most councils. My own council estimates that at current levels, by 2020 we literally won't be able to afford just the social care bill. That's every penny the council has going to social care - no libraries, no bin collections, no street cleaning, no schools, *nothing*.

The gap between what a council brings in, and what it has to spend, has never been greater and gets bigger every year. We would need 5% rises for multiple years *just* to maintain services at their current levels, nevermind improving them.

 

[KennyLinder]

£180 also, and we too got a letter saying there will be now additional charges if you want garden waste taken away (just in time for when you start mowing your garden every week or so).

 

[H.Protagonist]

christ, I knew some places exceeded £3000/year, but I thought it was rare.

Bloody Knustford. We totally picked the worst time to move here (England), too. <-- Landed on the day the Brexit vote was decided. Wahey~

Because the rising cost of providing social care at the current levels is far greater than these increases, and indeed is beyond the budgets of most councils. My own council estimates that at current levels, by 2020 we literally won't be able to afford just the social care bill. That's every penny the council has going to social care - no libraries, no bin collections, no street cleaning, no schools, *nothing*.

The gap between what a council brings in, and what it has to spend, has never been greater and gets bigger every year. We would need 5% rises for multiple years *just* to maintain services at their current levels, nevermind improving them.

That's really depressing...

 

[Kysen]

£70 here, damn some of you guys getting ripped off.

 

[frankie_baby]

We pay £200 but only 10 months of the year (Glasgow is weird).

The 10 month thing is pretty standard accross the country, we pay 120 a month

The shitty thing about council tax is just how much it screws low income workers, we are a 1 income pretty much minimum wage family and we pay the full whack whereas our high income neighbours pay exactly the same, be much fairer system yo just scrap council tax and put a few pence on to income tax, would save a fortune in admin costs too

 

[hohoXD123]

While increased funding is important, I think the main problem with social care is inefficiencies in the system, services not following best practices, and lack of communication between hospitals and social services. If we're looking at delayed discharges which was one of the main reasons behind the problems in the NHS this winter, councils with the biggest cuts since 2010 didn't seem to be performing any worse than those whose budgets have increased.

 

[Tak3n]

The 10 month thing is pretty standard accross the country, we pay 120 a month

The shitty thing about council tax is just how much it screws low income workers, we are a 1 income pretty much minimum wage family and we pay the full whack whereas our high income neighbours pay exactly the same, be much fairer system yo just scrap council tax and put a few pence on to income tax, would save a fortune in admin costs too

have you applied for a rebate? low wage familes get money off council tax

 

[Maledict]

I think to be honest with you things would be better off if councils didn't have to pay for social care, and if social care were part of the national health service instead. That would put a lot more pressure on the system to drive improvements between the two (delayed bed discharges from hospitals are a massive cost to the public purse). It would also help make your local bills 'real'.

What I mean by that is - the vast majority of your council tax hill goes on social care. Usually for a relatively small number of people. You pay a bill every month, and all you get for it are your streets being cleaned and your bins collected, and you get (rightly) pissed off when the bin collections drop down. What you don't see is that 80% of your councils budget is going on social care, and indeed 80% of that 80% is going on the social care costs of a few hundred people.

There's a massive disconnect between what you think your council tax pays for, and what it's actually being spent on.

 

[danowat]

I think to be honest with you things would be better off if councils didn't have to pay for social care, and if social care were part of the national health service instead.

It is, at least in my county.

 

[LewieP]

When are they going to adjust the income tax thresholds to reflect the current value of the £?

 

[Raynes]

In central London, paying £110 a month for the whole apartment. It's cheaper here than in central Bristol!

How is that possible?

 

[Maledict]

It is, at least in my county.

Not really. Whilst some councils have moved towards this, legislatively the framework and duties remain on local authorities. You can do a work around at a local level, but it's clunky and has ineffeiciencies that wouldn't exist if the national government just did its fucking job for once and tackled this issue properly.

It's probably the biggest long term crisis we face in the U.K., and it's being totally ignored in parliament because people don't see it as a national issue. Substantial change is needed.

 

[danowat]

Not really. Whilst some councils have moved towards this, legislatively the framework and duties remain on local authorities. You can do a work around at a local level, but it's clunky and has ineffeiciencies that wouldn't exist if the national government just did its fucking job for once and tackled this issue properly.

It's probably the biggest long term crisis we face in the U.K., and it's being totally ignored in parliament because people don't see it as a national issue. Substantial change is needed.

It's funded by the NHS, but still run by the LCC........for now........they are making sweeping cuts to it next year........

 

[Coxy100]

£115 and it's going up soon (Derby)

 

[Jacknapes]

As long as the rise is definitely going on the likes of social care, i don't mind.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The council tax is regressive shit. It's percentage of income is high for people with lower incomes and negligible for the rich. How housing quality is determined to set the rates is arbitrary as well.

It should be replaced with higher income taxes, and possibly a small increase in sales tax. Much more of the funding for council duties should come from the national government, to reduce the disparity in quality of services between richer and poorer councils

 

[Number45]

£180 also, and we too got a letter saying there will be now additional charges if you want garden waste taken away (just in time for when you start mowing your garden every week or so).

This has been the case for YEARS where I live, although I have no idea how much we pay per month.

The shitty thing about council tax is just how much it screws low income workers, we are a 1 income pretty much minimum wage family and we pay the full whack whereas our high income neighbours pay exactly the same, be much fairer system yo just scrap council tax and put a few pence on to income tax, would save a fortune in admin costs too

Surely all this does is hand more control of local funding to the government? With this current government, not sure that's good for anyone.

 

[Cronen]

£92 here in Swansea.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The 10 month thing is pretty standard accross the country, we pay 120 a month

The shitty thing about council tax is just how much it screws low income workers, we are a 1 income pretty much minimum wage family and we pay the full whack whereas our high income neighbours pay exactly the same, be much fairer system yo just scrap council tax and put a few pence on to income tax, would save a fortune in admin costs too

It is very regressive - living in a big house doesn't necessarily mean you have lots of income. I'm sure I read somewhere that council tax was basically brought in as a replacement to the poll tax.

 

[krang]

Mine's £190, but that's because we pay it over 10 months, not 12 for some weird reason.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

I'm still mad they stopped picking up binbags and everything has to fit in a black bin they only collect weekly. Lousy binmen.

e: fortnightly!

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I'm still mad they stopped picking up binbags and everything has to fit in a black bin they only collect weekly. Lousy binmen.

Hahaha, you don't know how good you've got it mate

 

[Tak3n]

It is very regressive - living in a big house doesn't necessarily mean you have lots of income. I'm sure I read somewhere that council tax was basically brought in as a replacement to the poll tax.

it was, and the system was/is fundamentally broken, for example we are currently moving and when looking around the it was amazing the difference in 'bands' when the houses were very similar in size etc.... some people won and some lost...

 

[Tak3n]

I'm still mad they stopped picking up binbags and everything has to fit in a black bin they only collect weekly. Lousy binmen.

ahh weekly bin collections, how I miss thee.... ours is moving to a 3 weekly collection later this year, absolutely ridiculous, I am jumping in my bin to fit it all in for the 2 weekly collection as it is

 

[krang]

I'm still mad they stopped picking up binbags and everything has to fit in a black bin they only collect weekly. Lousy binmen.

How much shit do you throw out that a wheelie bin every week isn't enough space?

We have two kids still in nappies, and we manage perfectly fine with a collection every other week (recycling weekly).

 

[Dougald]

I'm still mad they stopped picking up binbags and everything has to fit in a black bin they only collect weekly. Lousy binmen.

In my area you get special refuse sacks and they'll only collect those with the local authority stamped on them, and recycling. I think each household gets 60 a year. They do that because rich people want to just pay more money to avoid recycling, so if you want to you can buy more bags from the council.

We're also now at the point where you get interrogated by a man with a clipboard every time you visit the tip

 

[danowat]

How much shit do you throw out that a wheelie bin every week isn't enough space?

We have two kids still in nappies, and we manage perfectly fine with a collection every other week (recycling weekly).

Yeah, but after two weeks the bins don't half hum.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Added to which, the 4.99% tax increase is caught in something of a catch-22. Sure, councils could propose to put it higher, but 5% or more has to go to a vote that would almost always lose because very few people like to pay higher taxes. As such councils can't raise their income fast enough because no-one wants to willingly pay for the increase, yet demand is going up and the British government are cutting finances for just about every major council. Local authorities just can't win here.

 

[frankie_baby]

have you applied for a rebate? low wage familes get money off council tax

We arent, even 1 fulltime minimum wage income is generally enough to be not entitled to anything off, obviously depends how much your council tax is if we had to pay some of the ridiculously high ones ive read in this thread then we probably would but at 120 a month we get zilch
And yes it has been properly assessed as we do get a little bit of housing benefit and they work it all out at the same time

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

Hahaha, you don't know how good you've got it mate

I meant fortnightly. My b.

I could cope fine with weekly pick ups. I'd pay an extra tenner a month for them.

 

[frankie_baby]

The council tax is regressive shit. It's percentage of income is high for people with lower incomes and negligible for the rich. How housing quality is determined to set the rates is arbitrary as well.

It should be replaced with higher income taxes, and possibly a small increase in sales tax. Much more of the funding for council duties should come from the national government, to reduce the disparity in quality of services between richer and poorer councils

Fuck no on sales tax, we already pay a ridiculous 20% VAT, thats another tax that affects the poor far more than the rich

 

[faridmon]

As someone who works in the Architectural industry, I have nothing but respect to Planning officers because they are overworked and badly respected, yet they work diligently and their communication (bar few) have been wonderfully responsive and helpful.

Having said, Council Tax is credulously expensive for low-income families and almost none existent for the higher class ones. There should be taxed based on household income.