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NeoGAF Greatest Superhero Movies of All Time - Vol. 2 (March 2017) - Voting Thread

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inm8num2

Member
Wait, is this over already? I thought it was going to last for like a month before closing.

That was just a bump. I doubt this stays open for a month, though. I'm guessing 1-2 weeks. New entries tend to slow down considerably after the first couple days.
 
1. The Incredibles
2. Iron Man
3. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
4. Batman Begins
5. The Dark Knight
6. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
7. The Avengers
8. Blade II
9. Hellboy II: The Golden Army
10. Deadpool
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I always feel like Incredibles is a movie ABOUT Superhero movies, a satire/parody of the genre in comics and movies, rather than a "real" superhero movie.
 

Oersted

Member
I think you could make the argument that in 3, Neo becomes some sort of superhero? Maybe. But I can't see anyone actually voting to put Matrix Revolutions on a list of the 10 best superhero films ever made, either, so it's kinda moot.

The problem is that at some point, because of the inherent nature of almost all superhero stories being sci-fi stories at their core, once you go looking in other sci-fi stories for superhero signifiers, you can (and will) find them a lot of the time. That doesn't necessarily make those sci-fi stories superhero tales.

I don't think The Matrix is a superhero movie, or that Neo is a superhero. Save for the last shot of the film, the aesthetic the Wachowskis seem to be going for more than anything is kung-fu/anime-styled action, not superheroics.

Neo is literally likened to Superman in Reloaded. And at the end of the Reloaded
he destroys Sentinels in the real world
And in the Matrix,
Neo is stopping bullets,
just slightly different than Superman. And of course, there is the ending shot of Matrix.

I'm not convinced. Anyway....



Infra-Man

The Dark Knight

Chronicle

Unbreakable

Hellboy II


Not totally sure about the order yet
 
Neo is literally likened to Superman in Reloaded.

Reloaded isn't The Matrix. And even in Reloaded, he's still not actually superpowered. He's just a dude. He doesn't develop any sort of extranormal powerset until Revolutions.

It's a sci-fi movie. It's not a superhero film.
 
My list is exactly the same as it was the last time we did this. Logan would have been included, but since it's ineligible, the list doesn't change:

1. Superman: The Movie

2. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm

3. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990)

4. The Incredibles

5. Batman

6. Captain America: Winter Soldier

7. The Dark Knight

8. The Avengers

9. Captain America: The First Avenger

10. The Rocketeer
 

hamchan

Member
1. The Dark Knight
2. The Incredibles
3. Spider-Man 2
4. Batsman Begins
5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier

(What should be number 3 or 4: Logan)
 

Oersted

Member
Reloaded isn't The Matrix. And even in Reloaded, he's still not actually superpowered. He's just a dude. He doesn't develop any sort of extranormal powerset until Revolutions.

It's a sci-fi movie. It's not a superhero film.

He does literally the same thing as in Matrix in that scene. And again, that ending of Reloaded.

Watchmen? Flash Gordon? Iron Man? They aren't inherently opposites.

Anyway, this feels pointless.
 
Anyway, this feels pointless.

I mean, I addressed it pretty clearly a couple days ago: The problem is that at some point, because of the inherent nature of almost all superhero stories being sci-fi stories at their core, once you go looking in other sci-fi stories for superhero signifiers, you can (and will) find them a lot of the time. That doesn't necessarily make those sci-fi stories superhero tales.

The Matrix isn't a superhero movie. None of them are.

My list is exactly the same as it was the last time we did this. Logan would have been included, but since it's ineligible, the list doesn't change:

Where would you have slotted it in?

(Funny that 2 years ago I was assuming BvS would probably at least make a run at the top 10 by the time we did this again. Whooooops)
 
This is gonna be a bit difficult

1. Cap America: Winter Soldier
2. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
3. Spider-Man 2
4. Captain America: Civil War
5. The Avengers
6. The Incredibles
7. Days of Future Past
8. The Dark Knight
9. X2
10. Guardians of the Galaxy

unfortunate Logan isn't eligible because it has a damn good case for number 1
 

Cetra

Member
Opinions, etc.

1. Unbreakable
2. The Dark Knight
3. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Ultimate Cut
4. X-Men: DoFP
5. X2
6. Avengers
7. Iron Man 3
8. Superman: The Movie
9. Spiderman 2
10. Batman 1989
 
  1. The Incredibles
  2. The Dark Knight
  3. Guardians of the Galaxy
  4. Deadpool
  5. Captain America: Winter Soldier
  6. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
  7. X-Men: First Class
  8. Iron Man
  9. Big Hero 6
  10. Avengers
`
 

NMFried

Member
1. The Avengers
2. The Dark Knight
3. X-Men: Days Of Future Past
4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
5. Guardians Of The Galaxy
6. Captain America: The First Avenger
7. X-Men: First Class
8. Iron Man
9. Captain America: Civil War
10. Watchmen

Honorable Mentions
Big Hero 6
Ant-Man
Doctor Strange

If Logan was included, it would be my No. 2.
 
I assume you are talking about some of the DC animated features. I don't see how they wouldn't be allowed if Mask of the Phantasm is allowed.

Mask of the Phantasm was theatrically released.

But I dont' think there's any rules against the DTV shit being included, though. Someone put up Return of the Joker I think.

(Most of the DTV shit is trash, though)
 

kswiston

Member
(Most of the DTV shit is trash, though)

I wouldn't vote for any of it. Some of them are decent but not top tier to me. However, I can't think of what else Blasian Persuasion could have been referring to unless they really liked Man Thing.

The Killing Joke got a theatrical release, so that is for sure safe to include. Any biters? :p
 

IconGrist

Member
I wouldn't vote for any of it. Some of them are decent but not top tier to me. However, I can't think of what else Blasian Persuasion could have been referring to unless they really liked Man Thing.

The Killing Joke got a theatrical release, so that is for sure safe to include. Any biters? :p

Flashpoint Paradox, Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths and Superman/Batman: Apocalypse would probably find a decent place somewhere in the Top 25 but Top 10? Nah.
 

FromAtoX

Member
1. The Incredibles
2. Spider Man 2
3. The Dark Knight
4. The Avengers
5. Guardians of the Galaxy
6. Iron Man
7. X2: X-Men United
8. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
9. Blade II
10. Unbreakable
 
I have to rewatch all those great straight to video DC movies before I can make a list. It's been a while since I've seen some, but I like most of them a lot more than I do all the live-action stuff except for a couple.

Edit: Fuck it, I'll make one just for fun and then make my real one later.

1. Batman: Mask of Phantasm
2. The Dark Knight Returns
3. Batman Begins
4. The Dark Knight
5. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
6. Batman Sub-Zero
7. Batman Under the Red Hood
8. Batman Returns
9. Batman
10. Batman
 

kunonabi

Member
1.Unbreakable
2.The Crow
3.Batman Returns
4.The Rocketeer
5.Captain America: Winter Soldier
6.The Amazing Spider-Man
7.Blade
8.Hulk
9.Return of Captain Invincible
10.Superman: The Motion Picture
 

plainr_

Member
The Dark Knight
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man
Captain America TFA
Captain America TWS
Captain America CW
Iron Man
The Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
Deadpool

...yep. I'm pretty satisfied with this list.
 
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
3. Hellboy II
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
6. The Incredibles
7. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
8. Spiderman 2
 
1. Spider-Man 2 (2004)
2. The Dark Knight (2008)
3. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
4. X2: X-Men United (2003)
5. Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
6. Batman Begins (2005)
7. X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)
8. Iron Man (2008)
9. Captain America: Civil War (2016)
10. Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

Honorable mentions:

Superman (1978)
Batman (1989)
Spider-Man (2002)
The Avengers (2012)
Iron Man 3 (2013)
 

Oersted

Member
I mean, I addressed it pretty clearly a couple days ago: The problem is that at some point, because of the inherent nature of almost all superhero stories being sci-fi stories at their core, once you go looking in other sci-fi stories for superhero signifiers, you can (and will) find them a lot of the time. That doesn't necessarily make those sci-fi stories superhero tales.

The Matrix isn't a superhero movie. None of them are.



Where would you have slotted it in?

(Funny that 2 years ago I was assuming BvS would probably at least make a run at the top 10 by the time we did this again. Whooooops)

a fictional hero having extraordinary or superhuman powers; also : an exceptionally skillful or successful person


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superhero

In modern popular fiction, a superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of costumed heroic character who possesses supernatural or superhuman powers and who is dedicated to fighting crime, protecting the public, and usually battling supervillains.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhero

Neo fits that to a t. Hence him being in universe compared to Superman. Hence Matrix being included in best of superhero movies list

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/04/28/the-best-original-superhero-movies-ever-made/

http://screenrobot.com/10-great-superhero-films-adapted-comic-books/

http://www.watchmojo.com/video/id/12603/

Hence critics like Ebert comparing Matrix to superhero comics

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-matrix-1999

But whatever
 
1- The dark knight
2- The Dark knight returns (part 1 and 2)
3- X-men Days of future past
4- X-men 2
5- Spider-man 2
6- Batman begins
7- The Avengers
8- The Flashpoint paradox
9- Batman superman: Apocalypse.
10- The Incredibles

Man so many DC animated movies that i want on this list.

Yes. I put Batman: Mask of the Phantasm on my list. The direct-to-video films are fair game.

Thanks.
 
Just rewatched Mask of the Phantasm last night. It had been a while.

You can tell it really was just a slightly juiced-up episode of the show. I'd remembered being fancier with the animation and such. But it wasn't, really. Not by much.

Didn't matter though: The story, the pacing, the acting? Yeah. Definitely the 2nd best Batman movie. Still. I almost moved it up the list last night, but decided against it.

Also: It's funny that the #10 on a lot of these lists is only there because Logan isn't being counted and forcing everything else one spot down.
 
Also: It's funny that the #10 on a lot of these lists is only there because Logan isn't being counted and forcing everything else one spot down.

Yup. I honestly struggled to come up with 10 superhero movies that I thought were even worthy of being on a top 10 list, so the last 3 spots are "yeah this is pretty good...for a superhero movie". Logan will be handy for future lists.
 

Blader

Member
1. The Dark Knight
e41dr1F.gif

2. Batman Begins

3. Spider-Man 2

4. The Avengers

5. Captain America: Civil War

6. Captain America: The Winter Soldier

7. The Dark Knight Rises

8. X2: X-Men United

9. Iron Man

10. Spider-Man
 
Eh, what?

Well, there's the alternate opening where Elastigirl is "humiliated" for being a homemaker by a feminist career woman. Because that's what the movie thinks feminism is: sneering at moms contemptuously.

Outside of that, the movie is entirely about striking back at political correctness and bureaucracy, since heroes causing collateral damage and hurting people is the reason they were outlawed, and about the leads saving and becoming comfortable in their precious stereotypical nuclear family.

All right, the predictable stuff first. The film contains just as much reheated sexism as you might expect. It starts with a flashback to our heroes' heyday, which appears to be the 1970s: Frozone sneers nonchalantly that the only thing female superheroes are good for is sex, and Elastigirl, looking rather like that woman from The Avengers, spouts the ”liberated woman" cod-feminism that was popular at the time: ”Get married, me? Sit at home and let the men save the world? Are you serious?" This would in most contexts, of course, be extremely heartening, but in this case is a not-so-subtle way of letting us know that she will be married by the end of the reel. She is: she steals a bad guy right out from under Mr Incredible's nose, putting it out of joint in the process, and after a bit of the hostile argy-bargy that passes for ”flirting" in Hollywood they get married the same day. (Yeah, well, it's a cartoon.)

Fast forwards twenty or so years and their married life is just as joyless as you would expect, given that Incredible works outside the home while Elastigirl does not. No explanation is given for this complete U-turn on her previous position. Incredible is your archetypal selfish male breadwinner, believing that the fact he works an eight-hour shift outside the home gives him the inalienable right to ignore his family: he hides in his study, goes ”bowling" with Frozone in the evenings, and reads the paper at teatime while Elastigirl does all the childcare and housework. In fact, however, he is not bowling: he and Frozone are secretly (and illegally) saving people from burning buildings, so he has lied to his wife and is in distinct danger of arrest or, possibly, death. The possibility that he will be killed and leave his family in dire poverty is at no point broached (although at the end of the film he attempts to ban Elastigirl from fighting in the final battle, telling her ”I'm not strong enough to lose you again" – but she and the kids are strong enough to lose him, are they?).

We are expected to believe that exile from superherodom is for him a wound that can never be healed; if that's the case, why is the former Elastigirl coping so well? Because housewifery is ”natural" for women? Or, more likely, because patriarchy has made it the standard for women to do twice the work of men for half the reward? Elastigirl doesn't go bowling in the evenings; she doesn't do anything. There is no point in the entire film where she is shown enjoying herself; she hasn't got a single friend, with the exception of Edna Mode (er, some friend). When Edna says ”Men of Bob's age are unstable, prone to weakness", she's got it in one. Incredible's self-control is nonexistent: while Elastigirl works hard to look after the kids and maintain their anonymity, Incredible is fired after throwing his boss through a wall in a fit of pique. He is too scared to tell his wife this, pretending instead that he has been sent on a sabbatical: the film begins to bear a bizarre resemblance to True Lies, or even The Full Monty.

Fortunately, the sex symbol Mirage pops up right on cue to offer Incredible a job killing rogue robots on a fancy tropical island. At this point, ridiculously, his family life improves enormously: he is happy! He acts decorously! He feeds the baby, talks to the kids and pinches his wife's bum! The message at this point appears to be that the secret to happy family life is for men to get more fulfilling jobs. There is only one huge hole in this hypothesis, which is that men know damn well that fulfilling jobs would make their lives better, and so do women; if you went up to women in the street and offered them a highly-paid job on a beautiful tropical island you would have to be a superhero yourself just to cope with the number of applications. Everyone would like a glamorous high-flying job. The problem is getting one.

This ludicrous and impractical message (that the nuclear family is the best of all possible worlds, provided the dad is extremely rich) would seem silly enough on its own, but Bird's comments take it to another level of inanity. The statement ‘moms have to stretch in 100 different ways each day' is of course often correct; the problem is that Bird seems to view this an as exemplary situation rather than an injustice to be rectified by forcing men to shoulder a greater share of childcare and housework. He's not even content to restrict the most sexist lines to the male characters, either: it is Violet who says ominously (and quite seriously!) ”Mom and Dad's lives could be in danger... or, worse still, their marriage." Pathetic.

At the end of the film, in the most mean-spirited and hypocritical scene of the lot, Violet is shown at an athletics meet, having cast off her black Goth jeans and donned a pink dress and a bow in her hair. The object of her affections approaches her with a puzzled expression: ”You're Violet, right? You look... different." ”You like different?" Violet asks anxiously. ”Sure... different is good," he smug stud replies, at precisely the moment Violet has started to look just like everyone else.

- https://www.thefword.org.uk/2005/01/the_incredibles/

The Incredibles is Mr. Incredible's story. The first half of the film is told almost totally from his perspective, and it is his crisis that propels the film forward. Elastigirl, you see, has adapted perfectly to her role as housewife and mother. As the film begins, we hear her say, "Settle down? No way! Leave the saving of the world to the men? I don't think so." But then she is tamed by marriage. She even becomes "Mrs. Incredible", not only in the advertisements (because of rights issues with Elasti-Girl), but also for the film proper - it's the Incredibles, after all, not the Elastics.

And while Elastigirl is busy trying to hold the family together, Mr. Incredible reads at the dinner table, doesn't listen to her, doesn't take his kids's problems seriously, locks himself in his own room to relive the past, and sneaks out with Frozone to play Hero, something which has caused the family to relocate and get new identities at least once and probably more than once. Has Elastigirl ever thought about a divorce? Or, if Incredible can't hold a job, has anyone thought about making her the breadwinner? Doesn't seem so. And while Incredible still has Frozone to rely on, we never see or hear from a friend she may have and go out with. Elastigirl is simply mother and wife.

I am not sure how much criticism to bring to bear for the traditional household the film represents because I feel that was part of the whole idea: Imagine the stereotypical suburban family, only with superpowers. Still, it is the traditional household we see, and the respective powers are also traditional: the men get the action powers (strength, speed, and Mr. Incredible seems pretty invulnerable). Elastigirl's powers were chosen specifically because as mother and housewife, she is used to juggling many different things, and Violet has the passive powers of Sue Storm (invisibility and static force fields). Violet needs to learn to be more confident, of course; her brother Dash has no such problem.

Frozone is the only black character we see. Voiced by Samuel L. Jackson, he is pretty much Samuel L. Jackson in a spandex suit. He also has a fairly headstrong girlfriend / wife who I assume was intended by the filmmakers to be black, since they portray her using a stereotype often associated with black women: when the city is being attacked by a giant robot, she is arguing with Frozone about the dinner they had planned for the night - and not telling him where she put his suit, even when he calls her, "woman!" I find this specific scene tiresome, to be honest.

- http://www.heroinecontent.net/archives/2010/09/the_incredibles.html

And of course, this isn't to say men shouldn't be portrayed like Mr. Incredible- I think it was an honest way of examining that problem and its potential resolution. But I think the core of the portrayal is really this question of, ”What issues does society today find acceptable for men and women to have, are a full range of possibilities for each gender represented and shown?" It would still seem as if we're not to the point where women can also have these qualms as to raising their family v. pursuing their interests and career, without being consequently demonized for it. In fact, the concept was almost so foreign to ElastiGirl that she didn't realize until someone else pointed it out to her- and in spite of fairly blatant evidence- that Mr. Incredible's issue was a struggle of home/family life v. personal fulfillment, rather than what she quickly suspected, which was that he was cheating on her. (hm.)


Same thing goes for the children; the struggles in themselves are fine, I just think it's very telling that you don't often see a young girl's main issues revolving around ”wanting to be the fastest runner"- there's always something in there about boys. And rarely is a young boy's (I think Dash is intended to be 11 or so?) main concern portrayed to be about confidence or girls. It's expected that boys will have/should have no issue being confident, and being confident with girls, an assumption that I think often has the potential to damage young boys whom, indeed, face these same problems and are basically told by society they can't possibly have confidence issues, because they're boys. And girls are too often almost coerced into being told all their issues are a matter of not having enough confidence, even if their issues might be more complex than that- because it is an expected issues for all girls to have.

And finally I do have some issues with the way the movie drives home the ideal family as being the nuclear family with parents that stay together. It would be nice, I think, if more kids' movies showed parents having issues and maybe not getting back together as not necessarily being... the end of the world. At any rate, I really disliked Violet's line to Dash of, ”Mom and Dad's lives could be in danger... or, worse still, their marriage." Har har, marriage being more important than your parents staying alive!

- http://feministdisney.tumblr.com/post/13083684970/the-incredibles-not-incredibly-feminist-friendly

These are a few articles by feminists that go into issues with the story better than I can. And yes, Edna Mode is great, but you can have a great character or great representation in a problematic movie.

When I was a kid, I thought Elastigirl was hot because she had a big butt (because the movie makes a point of that) which honestly doesn't help its case, but as an adult I realize the movie also makes a hard point to portray her as worrying about her sexiness in a skin-tight suit now that she's a MOOOOM. What if Bob wants to fuck Mirage and NOT MEEEEE. The weird thing is that I enjoy the movie, but it's got problems, and nobody seems to want to acknowledge that.


EDIT: You can reply in PM or wherever so the thread doesn't get derailed, if you like. Same for anyone else. This is just me responding since I was asked to clarify.
 

sdijoseph

Member
1. Batman Mask of the Phantasm
2. The Dark Knight
3. Spider-Man 2
4. Batman Begins
5. X-Men First Class
6. The Avengers
7. Batman Return of the Joker
8. Deadpool
9. Guardians of the Galaxy
10. Spider-Man
 

creatchee

Member
1. Unbreakable
2. The Crow
3. Batman Begins
4. Watchmen Ultimate Cut
5. The Dark Knight
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Captain America: Civil War
8. Darkman
9. Spider-Man 2
10. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
 
1. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990)
2. The Avengers
3. Batman Begins
4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
5. Batman: Under the Red Hood
6. Blade 2
7. Hellboy 2: The Golden Army
8. The Incredible Hulk
9. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
10. X2: X-Men United (as much shit as I give the Singer X-Men movies, I still really enjoy this to this day)
 

RS4-

Member
Don't think I can put it in any order:

The Dark Knight
Logan
Unbreakable
X2
DoFP
Winter Soldier
IM1
Deadpool
Blade
GotG

Throw in Dredd and SM2 in there.
 

vaderise

Member
1- The Dark Knight
2- Spider-Man 2
3- Avengers
4- Iron Man
5- Captain America: Civil War
6- Batman Begins
7- The Dark Knight Rises
8- The Incredibles
9- X-Men 2
10- Guardians of the Galaxy

Honorable mentions: Captain America: Winter Soldier, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, X-Men First Class

If 2017 movies could be included Logan would %100 be on my list. Best ''X-Men'' movie.

They gotta go in an order. Logan isn't eligible this year. Dredd isn't a superhero.

I really don't want to sound like a dick but why Deadpool is considered as a superhero and Dredd isn't. Isn't Deadpool more of an anti-hero. Actions of Judge Dredd are much more heroic than Deadpool tbh.
 

Tsukumo

Member
1. The Dark Knight
2. Spider-Man 2
3. Captain America Winter Soldier
4. Man of Steel
5. Avengers
6. Captain America Civil War
7. Blade 2
8. Watchmen
9. Iron Man 3
10. Unbreakable
 

inky

Member
  1. Iron Man
  2. The Incredibles
  3. The Avengers
  4. Batman Begins
  5. Hellboy II: The Golden Army
  6. Spider-Man 2
  7. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  8. The Dark Knight
  9. Iron Man 3
  10. Captain America: Civil War
 
I really don't want to sound like a dick but why Deadpool is considered as a superhero and Dredd isn't. Isn't Deadpool more of an anti-hero. Actions of Judge Dredd are much more heroic than Deadpool tbh.

You don't sound like a dick, it's cool. Dredd is a satire of fascism. Dredd isn't heroic at all. He's a gag character at his core. Just because he's in a comic book doesn't make him a superhero. He's no more a superhero than Dirty Harry is.

I talked about it on the first page.

Deadpool's technically a superhero because he's actually superpowered, lives in a superhero universe, wears a costume (police uniform != superhero costume), and while he isn't necessarily out there fighting crime out of the goodness of his own heart, there is a code he adheres to (most of the time), and he is often working with superhero teams in a superhero capacity.
 

Lifeline

Member
1. The Dark Knight
2. Spider-Man 2
3. Watchmen
4. Unbreakable
5. Guardians of the Galaxy
6. The Incredibles
7. X-Men: Days of Future Past
8. Spider-Man
9. X-Men: First Class
10. Iron-Man
 

iron_man

Neo Member
1. Avengers. After growing up reading and adoring The Avengers comics I don´t think anything could ever beat that final team-up action scene for me.
2. Spider-man 2. Best superhero fighting scenes ever?
3. Batman. Keaton + Jack + best Batmobile = ? I am one of the weird ones who never found the Bale movies all that interesting.
4. The Incredibles. It´s the Fantastic Four movie I never knew I wanted before I sat there in the cinema.
5. Iron-man. The movie that made me believe again that maybe the hero-movie biz wasn´t dead in the water.

Honorable mention: Deadpool.
 
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