Into the Light
Banned
I don't think I am ready for this yet.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
- Start date
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I don't think I am ready for this yet.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Having a rudimentary knowledge of how games are made seems to factor in on this board, specifically. It shouldn't, but it seems to be the analogy most often reference. Upthread you saw Naughty Dog/Sony being used as an example.
But since the narrative doesn't live/die on these boards at all, and is very much present in a lot of places (the enthusiast press still pushes it, almost habitually at this point) I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier regarding the narrative's ease of use and flexibility w/r/t/ maintaining that jaded/cynical pose.
To a lesser extent: These dudes live for it.
molnizzle
Member
Many Star Wars fans feel personally hurt by the acquisition for some reason.
Minor story beats? No, of course not.
Major plot megatons like deciding to drop the word "Jedi" from future film lexicon? You bet.
Killer Queen
Banned
its been 40 years
its time
I just put him on the ignore list. Not worth the effort. People that refuse to accept that they're simply wrong and instead double down on their misleading crusade aren't worth the effort.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know why you keep pushing this.
You accused me of it earlier in the thread and seem convinced that this hurt is what's fueling me somehow.
I don't get it.
Aside from the fact it's not true, there's nothing in any of my responses that suggests this feeling exists, much less that it's the single feeling driving me. I'm confused by where you're pulling this read from if the read isn't coming 100% from your own uninformed guesses.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
I used to believe this as well then I actually talked to people. Disney is there to give help when they need it. Guess what? Kennedy and the gang got this and are giving back to Disney. Iger might step in and say "Hey, whats going on here?" if the next six films make less than 100 million dollars and he's losing face. And that's never going to happen, ever. Kennedy is smart. Even during the "break" between 9 and 10 is going to go over well with people. People upset about the acquisition are idiots, plain and simple.
Trust me, I was a diehard "Disney is Lucasfilm" guy but it's more Disney is the cool dad who might step in when they're low on cash and Lucasfilm is the successful son that probably won't ever ask for it but pay for his living. Dad Disney is way better than most dads lol.
Lifejumper
Member
The original Disney acquisition thread is a fun throwback: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=497716&page=1
I'm not sure why. Disney isn't doing shit other than signing and receiving paychecks. The problems with the recent films has less to do with corporate oversight, other than TFA being a rushjob, and more to do with the creative people they picked to oversee aspects of the films. Both TFA and Rogue One are very much products of the directors/writers and carry both the same strengths and faults. Is someone going to sit here and argue that TFA isn't an Abrams film in the sense that his vision was strangled by producer control?
I'd honestly argue it's not. We just got the series back finally. I wanted to see movies with a reformed Republic and a new Jedi order lead by Luke.
Seems like what we're getting is not only not that but for me, at least, may kill my excitement in Star Wars. :/
Maybe the movie will convince me otherwise, the trailer looked good, but I can't say I've ever felt this worried about one of these movies before.
Going from Return of the Jedi and then two movies later: "Lol the Jedi are done" feels like such a dick move.
molnizzle
Member
Even if Disney is deciding to be a "cool dad" right now, that's their decisionnot Lucasfilm. Delegatory "hands off" management is still a style of management.
Do you really need the Jedi Order to enjoy Star Wars? It's just a fancy name for force users on the light side with weird rules and limitations. They can draw up something befitting the Star Wars universe taking into account everything that happened with Anakin, Luke and Ben.
Killer Queen
Banned
You've had nearly half a century of Star Wars. Nearly half of one hundred years. You've had a trilogy about a lone Jedi, you had a trilogy about a Jedi republic, you had a 5-6 season series about the inner workings of a Jedi Republic and how they operate.
In addition to the canon stuff, you have stuff like KOTOR games that go into the old Jedi republics and their history and the vast plethora of EU Legends stuff, all based around fundamentally the same ideas.
Luke tried to create a new Jedi order and failed. I'm guessing now he wants to try something else because maybe the Jedi have a fundamental flaw or two (and they arguably do).
Just because future mainline films don't have traditional Jedi doesn't mean they can't or wont have anthology films about Jedi or the different republics throughout history. But for the future of the series and universe, Star Wars really does need to expand and move beyond what it has now if its going to last another 40 years.
It's been 30 years in and out of universe since then, shit's happened.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Whatever you say, Mr. Pitt. *wink*
So no matter what they do or how much freedom LucasFilm has, you still wouldn't be satisfied since it's all still a style of management.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
You're correct in that definition but dead wrong in what actually happened. They went into this knowing that Lucasfilm is Kennedy now and that the property was big enough to go to anyone else. Lucas, Iger, Kennedy...the whole fucking board was allowing Disney to be their check writer as long as THEY knew Lucasfilm had full control of the type of relationship that would happen.
I literally said on here months ago that Iger was in on the day to day business and Kennedy was second fiddle. Literally a few weeks of talks (and Google lol) completely changed my perspective how thorough Lucas and Kennedy were when they made these deals and management requests. I basically underestimated Star Wars and Lucas/Kennedy.
Kind of, yeah. The Jedi are one of my favorite aspects of Star Wars. If they replace with something that just feels half-assed then that kills a pillar of it. It won't ruin what's already there but makes me less interested in future films outside maybe ones set before Ep 8.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
I mean
Okay?
If your entire point is "well Disney has the ability to take control but chooses not to" then I mean, yeah, that's literally a truism.
But the whole argument wasn't whether Bob was actually physically capable of calling the shots. Saying Kathy and the folks she hires have creative control because Disney lets them doesn't change that they uh, have creative control. So I'm not sure what the argument even is. This whole thing came up because it was said that Lucasfilm doesn't have the authority to make major creative decisions, and by your own admission they have in fact been given that power. So.... yeah. We can throw out absurd cases of a fictional Kathy throwing down a kilo of cocaine and trying to green light Space Gigli or whatever, but such appeals to absurd hypotheticals don't change actually anything because they're absurd hypotheticals and Kathleen Kennedy is one of the most successful poroducers of all time so it's all moot.
Chuckie
Member
Looks like it, but I am not 100% sure about that yet. They could reintroduce it.
But even if they didn't (which is very probable) I do think the term Jedi is a lot stronger, well known and connected to SW than Sith. I think a large percentage of viewers didn't even know what a Sith was untill they watched The Phantom Menace.
So personally I think they won't drop the term Jedi (or kill them all off) as it is way too connected to SW. I also know I could be totally wrong about this because I haven't seen VIII and IX yet
What about the Sith? I ask because they were destroyed 34 years ago.
molnizzle
Member
It's not about my satisfaction. Kathleen does good work. I'm sure Iger is pleased with her, just as I'm sure the Disney board is pleased with Iger.
It's just annoying to see the constant "you mean Lucasfilm" parroting in every Star Wars thread. Disney is Lucasfilm now. Just like Beats by Dre is Apple, YouTube is Google, and Oculus is Facebook. That's how subsidiaries work.
Killer Queen
Banned
How do you think those terms got popularized?Looks like it, but I am not 100% sure about that yet. They could reintroduce it.
But even if they didn't (which is very probable) I do think the term Jedi is a lot stronger, well known and connected to SW than Sith. I think a large percentage of viewers didn't even know what a Sith was untill they watched The Phantom Menace.
So personally I think they won't drop the term Jedi (or kill them all off) as it is way too connected to SW. I also know I could be totally wrong about this because I haven't seen VIII and IX yet
Because the series stayed popular and the terms were hammered in your brain by marketing across decades. Theres nothing stopping them from doing it again.
It's interesting that Feige and Marvel as a whole, can do whatever the hell it wants and Marvel fans know it's all Marvel but some Star Wars fans think Kathleen Kennedy is Disney's stooge, for whatever reason. I'm sure she doesn't give a shit since she's far too busy grinding to make these movies great but I sure would be annoyed if I was her.
Hmmm...
I wonder what physicality could mean. A slap? A kiss?
I'd love it if Carrie got to bring a bit of her own feisty personality on screen. She didn't have a ton to do in TFA. I kinda want to see pissed off Leia one more time (see Han/Leia in the OT).
Although I did love her little moment where she first enters the movie. That look was great, as was them slightly digging against each other (and Leia winning, of course).
Sapiens
Member
I'm certain all this "Lucasfilm" stuff is merely a little bit of astroturfing to assure the fan base that everything is fine.
End of the day, it's still said by these people as a small concession that Iger is watching over it, contentedly nodding as long as the money is coming in.
It's all a part of the corporate religious dogma that is Star Wars.
End of the day, it's still said by these people as a small concession that Iger is watching over it, contentedly nodding as long as the money is coming in.
It's all a part of the corporate religious dogma that is Star Wars.
Hardcore sex scene, baby! We're finally getting that unsafe Star Wars film!
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Exactly and no, she would probably just chuckle lol. Thats how small any of this type of discussion is to her.
I mean, it's just to denote a speficity and it comes up because it's a marked difference with how other franchises are discussed on this same board. A Lucasfilm movie is different from a Disney movie, which is different from a Marvel movie which is different from a Pixar movie. They're all under the same umbrella, but they are all distinct too. Beauty and the Beast is a different thing from Rogue One. Frozen is a different thing from Inside Out. The Avengers is a different thing from Pirates of the Caribbean. Just lobbing Disney out without mentioning Lucasfilm is kind of inaccurate on one front, and disrespectful to the people at Lucasfilm on another, and is a contradiction when people talk about those other things as distinct Pixar or Marvel or Disney products.
molnizzle
Member
It's interesting how people in SW thread keep saying this shit as if it's true.
Marvel is Disney just as much as Lucasfilm is Disney.
You see a bunch of people always try to make a clear distinction between Disney animated films and Pixar, because they're not the same thing, Pixar's achievements are not Disneys and Disney's are not Pixar's.
All of this is only different when LucasFilms is brought up.
The Sith is different. We didn't know that's what Vader and Palp was until TPM. I guess unless you read the old EU which I think mentioned it. However the Jedi were introduced the very moment we got introduced to the Light Saber.
I liked the Jedi Order stuff in the PT but I wanted to see the rebuilding of a new order in the ST that didn't fall into the trappings that the PT Jedi did. Instead their rebuilding and fall all happened fucking off screen.
So unless they somehow really sell it well, these new not-Jedi are just disappointing.
This is something I ask myself a lot.
Is it because Disney is seen as a giant corporation that just wants to make toys and themeparks and games and action figures out of their movies for incredible profits?
Because obviously, that is what Lucasfilm has been doing for years.
And they also make very fun, creative movies at the same time. Just like Disney does.
I don't really get the need to prove that every mistake is due to Disney, or that proving that Disney is behind everything would somehow prove that 'see, these movies are made by giant media corporations out for money!'. Because, yes, that's what they already are. Always have been. It's fine. It's a giant industry.
Anyway, the point is moot since Lucasfilm calls the shot, and this entire Disney thing is kinda boring to me these days. I just wanna talk about space lizards and shit.
If they don't it's clearly corporate censorship. Time to burn down Disneyland if they keep it safe.
I think everybody discussing the Disney talk should read this
molnizzle
Member
Hush. No logic nowonly Lucasfilm.
Killer Queen
Banned
Which is presumably what will happen. The trappings of the Jedi are fundamental parts of their order. So they just won't be Jedi, they'd be called something else
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, I thought they were going to have a full-blown fight at first, but it turned into the sad exposition scene where Fisher had to keep saying the word "Snoke" and give it weight.
It'd be nice to have "WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE" and "Being held by you isn't QUITE enough to get me excited" type emotion from Fisher in Episode 8. Watching the Bright Lights documentary, it's very obvious that sort of sharper-edged sarcasm was very much still in her.
I can't imagine Rian Johnson didn't try to draw it out in her scenes.
Yup, it's logic that Disney is paying me. That's literally the only reason someone would disagree with you, cus they're getting paid to do so.
Chuckie
Member
Like I said, it is possible but I do not think it is probable. Theoretically they could also get rid of lightsabers and hammer another weapon in our brain, but I doubt they will.
You should especially read griffy's post. Pretty clear points made there
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Surely Disney wouldn't let Captain America be a Nazi.
Huh. I wonder just exactly what he means with that. Definitely excited to hear and see more of Fisher though. Especially since she didn't get to do that much in TFA (not there was anything wrong with that, it suited the story).
molnizzle
Member
You don't have to be paid to swallow the dogma.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars. I grew up reading the EU and I continue to digest everything in the new canon. Doesn't make me blind to the corporate reality of the most popular entertainment property in human history.
I did. It doesn't hold up, specifically with Pixar. It's pretty well known that they started doing sequels at the request of poppa Disney.
Disney still signs the checks and banks the profit. They're always in control.
Killer Queen
Banned
There's really no reason that they have to hold on to the Jedi title. They kind of have to keep lightsabers because everyone uses them and though not required the lightsaber itself is more of a fundamental aspect of the series than simply btge title of Jedi. And just because they're not making more Jedi doesn't mean their retconning Jedi out of existence.
molnizzle
Member
No, I accused them of parroting (repeating) the corporate propaganda of actual astroturfers.
Chuckie
Member
I am not saying anything about retconning. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this: I think it is possible that we won't see Jedi anymore and Luke is the last, I just don't think it is probable. You disagree. Fine, let's leave it at that. We'll see what will happen soon.
You're frankly having a different argument than what anyone else is having. I assume we'll be seeing you in the Pixar and Marvel threads from now on, correcting everyone that these are all in fact DISNEY movies.
Killer Queen
Banned
But why isn't it "probable".
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