GHG
Member
I don't like the way you're talking to me
We've all cheesed our way past certain sections of these games at some point. No shame in it.
I don't like the way you're talking to me
Plus the series introduced a lot of changes (improvements) for the sake of mainstream accessibility- immediate fast travel, localized merchants, streamlined weapon upgrading, etc. None of that permanent health bar reduction curse shit past the first game. All of which I'm personally thankful for.
Bloodborne had like half the stats available compared to other Souls games, and a fraction of the weapons. NPC summons were later patched in. And even then, there's an unofficial easy mode by the name of "Ludwig's Holy Blade".
It's not clunky. You summon help, and it appears in a matter of seconds in Dark Souls 3. Summoning other player may take a while in Bloodborne these days though. There are NPC summon signs for a bit of help, and player summons for those parts you can't beat even with a NPC companion.
I don't think the easy mode would help people get into the Souls games, if they don't have the patience for them now. Unless they want the easy mode to also entail the loss of XP currency on death being removed, and being respawned right where you died.
They really don't. Not all games have to cater to everyone, moreover, if someone doesn't have the time to invest and learn the game, too bad.
I don't need an explanation how to play the game. I know how to play them. Either I get the kill or I go back and gain a few levels and try again. Shortcuts I use as I find them.Those "buffs" you describe are called levelling up or special items/spells you can find.
As for the enemies on the way back to the boss being an obstacle... Find the shortcut and run, it's pretty simple really.
Yes actually, it will. Also like i said above, if youre struggling then you should be looking at what you're doing wrong and learning from your mistakes.I don't need an explanation how to play the game. I know how to play them. Either I get the kill or I go back and gain a few levels and try again. Shortcuts I use as I find them.
Don't change the fact they can add an easy mode/assist without it affecting you in the slightest.
Grinding for hours won't help someone who struggle already.
Having a separate easy mode would remove tons of players which would absolutely make for a worse game for everyone else because:
A) less noobs to invade and terrorize if you're an asshole
B) less noobs to assist with your overpowered alt
Having a separate easy mode would remove tons of players which would absolutely make for a worse game for everyone else because:
A) less noobs to invade and terrorize if you're an asshole
B) less noobs to assist with your overpowered alt
it's kind of sad that game completion is often a minority of the audience. Imagine if these were the stats for watching a movie all the way through.
Better thread title, IMO:
"Do Souls games continue to provide data that indicates they are a phenomenon on the landscape of video games?"
If Dark Souls trophies data seem to overwhelmingly indicate high rates of completion and the rest of the market pales in comparison, I'd say we have more of an indicator that those games continue to attract a dedicated following that outmatches most games on the market more than they indicate how difficult they are.
Which means they are doing something right.
And shouldn't be needlessly changed
yep. also sad really.The time involved in finishing a game is more akin to watching a long tv series rather than a film imo. Loads of people give up on tv shows.
But easy mode wouldn't be a change to the base Souls formula, it would be an addition for players that want it. Just because something is successful in no way indicates it shouldn't ever receive improvements.
Which means they are doing something right.
And shouldn't be needlessly changed
I actually don't disagree with you, but I think in the context of the grander conversation we're talking about with accessibilities and videogames -- a mere instrument of entertainment -- it's a bit of a mental stretch. I'd suggest developing a different angle, as I'm sure one exists that more eloquently and accurately captures the notion you're trying to get at.
I'd argue that games have become complex and multifaceted enough at this point that the vast majority of them would seriously not harm the more dedicated players by introducing a so-called tourist mode that allows less skilled or less dedicated players to enjoy facets of the experience that exist outside of the skill-achieved parts.
As I said in a previous post, it would not at all bother me to have folks showing up in Dark Souls OTs gushing about how they loved entering Anor Londo for the first time, and how tense the view from the church rafters looked as they inched along. Or how they laughed at the "Chest ahead" message on the ground at the end, etc... They wouldn't even need to mention anything about difficulty or anything at all. I'd personally be playing on a Normal or Hard setting, as I'm familiar with Dark Souls and do appreciate it for the challenge it presents. I don't have to force that angle of appreciation on anyone, and there's truly a lot more to the game that I appreciate just outside of that as well. This is just theoretical of course -- I don't expect ANYONE to take the time to add that easy mode into the original Dark Souls at this point, save for a potential remaster later.
Same with the Prius you use as an example. If there was a Prius OT that was super active in off topic discussion, it'd be just as valid exchange in conversation for someone to gush "OMG I got 80MPG average on this tank of gas!!! Coming from my beat-up old 1988 Datsun, this is life-changing!," and a user quoting it along the lines of "yeah I took my Prius to the track for shits and giggles, and putting out max RPMs for hours on end still netted an average 50MPG -- better than my collectors 1994 RX-7 that I also have; Prius is kinda dope, man. What a feat of engineering!"
Nothing lost, I feel.
But I also don't necessarily feel like developers HAVE TO do it, I just don't think they have anything to lose by doing so, and I think the community also only has anything to gain from it.
It would.
It would splinter the online community.
And it would tempt people into playing the game in a sub-optimal way. More options aren't always better. Sometimes we need to have decisions made for us because we don't know what's best for us. Take games that allow you to save anywhere. It can ruin a game for a lot of people because of how it can you into the habit of save scumming. Therefore, some games are designed so that you can only have one save slot.
'Improvements' is kinda a biased way of putting it. Easy mode fucks with games like dark souls who lock progression behind difficulty. If DS1 had an easy mode, i guarantee half of the game's players would get to the skeletons, die repeatedly, and rather than turn around and look for the alternative route would bump the difficulty down.But easy mode wouldn't be a change to the base Souls formula, it would be an addition for players that want it. Just because something is successful in no way indicates it shouldn't ever receive improvements.
It also has an easy mode, summons. The percentage would be lower if you had to solo bosses.
If someone can't kill a thing and spend hours trying to grind it out it's not fun for most people hence why even care if there's an easy mode for them to use if they want.Yes actually, it will. Also like i said above, if youre struggling then you should be looking at what you're doing wrong and learning from your mistakes.
I had a hard time beating the Demon Prince in the Ringed City DLC
So i went back and leveled a bit, but also learned its moveset and when my openings were, how i Should treat it. Summoned up the NPCs and beat it.
'Improvements' is kinda a biased way of putting it. Easy mode fucks with games like dark souls who lock progression behind difficulty. If DS1 had an easy mode, i guarantee half of the game's players would get to the skeletons, die repeatedly, and rather than turn around and look for the alternative route would bump the difficulty down.
Then they'd either be going through an area they're not supposed to do yet due to easy mode breaking the games natural progression curve, or they still won't struggle, and the fact that they're still dying on easy mode makes them more likely to drop the game.
So this idea that an easy mode would only improve players experience is kinda a pretty big assumption. With how difficulty spikes are utilised in the series, messing with damage values would very likely mess the game up.
Souls games are not that hard. They just have unusual control layout and weird traps. Once you learn the control and remember the spawn it's just an normal game then.
People making memes about it but sometimes I actually see elitists using "Git gud" seriously. It's like being good in video games is actually the only accomplishment they get in their life.
I have a difference of opinion there, but it's cool that you like it. I personally think the "easy mode" here is not super functional as a replacement for an easy mode in this case because dwindling online populations make "easy mode" harder and harder to use. Add to that a lot of weird user unfriendly stuff like booting a co-op partner after a boss kill and innate difficulty to matching up with people you're looking to (haven't tried Dark Souls III yet so maybe this is fixed) and I'd definitely describe it as clunky.
Because what the easy mode is and how its implemented is important, and there isnt really a way to implement an "easy mode" into this series without it either:If someone can't kill a thing and spend hours trying to grind it out it's not fun for most people hence why even care if there's an easy mode for them to use if they want.
Let me take it to the extreme here and broadstroke all games:
Do the fact trainers exist take away your enjoyment of every game ever because people can change how the game is played to suit them?
These are just a few reasons why the "But Souls games already have an Easy Mode!" defense is so flimsy. How many other games can you think of where certain difficulty modes vanish when you aren't online? How many are there where difficulty modes appear or disappear depending on how many other people are playing the game?
I've been trying to play this "Easy Mode" with a friend in the original Dark Souls recently, and ignoring the insane amount of bullshit you have to go through to get that game just working on PC, fulfilling all of the conditions to allow co-op is ludicrous. You need item X, you need to be in area Y (but if you've defeated Boss A you need to both make your way to area Z), player A has to be human but player B doesn't... and this is freakin' Easy Mode? I've been playing video games for nearly 30 years and I've never come across anything like this.
Because what the easy mode is and how its implemented is important, and there isnt really a way to implement an "easy mode" into this series without it either:
-Being fairly useless
-breaking core mechanics.
The games aren't designed with it in mind and designing it around such a thing would dumb down the game for everyone (or take a lot of resources) or be useless to thise that need it. Like i said above. Even if you were to lower enemy damage output, aggressiveness and health. Players would still get destroyed and be just as frustrated if theyre not understanding the core concepts of the game. If you don't know how to roll, use a shield and look for openings by reading enemy attacks, you're going to have a bad time, because anything in these games can straight ruin you if you're not paying attention even if you're beyond them in power. That's what core systems like dodging and blocking are for, and if you can do those all its about is assesing your situation.
The alternative is dumbing down the level and boss design across the board so the game is more accessible, which of course would ruin it for other people. Yeah they could just design everything differently for easy mode, but at that point you're playing a different game and then why even bother playing the game at all.
Trainers can only do so much, theyre there to help you and teach you, but they can't do it for you. At the end of the day its still going to take some effort and struggle on your part to learn what you're doing, and thats what this series is all about, learning. Deaths are your trainers, it tells you you did something wrong and not to repeat that mistake.
You could make the argument that these games need better tutorials so that everyone better understands the games systems. But it doesn't need an easy mode.
I get that and I don't want them to change how the game works. I think tweaking a mode with stats for you and the enemy or even just adding a optional buff/debuff when you die X times would be enough for most and won't require any basic gameplay changes.Because what the easy mode is and how its implemented is important, and there isnt really a way to implement an "easy mode" into this series without it either:
-Being fairly useless
-breaking core mechanics.
The games aren't designed with it in mind and designing it around such a thing would dumb down the game for everyone (or take a lot of resources) or be useless to thise that need it. Like i said above. Even if you were to lower enemy damage output, aggressiveness and health. Players would still get destroyed and be just as frustrated if theyre not understanding the core concepts of the game. If you don't know how to roll, use a shield and look for openings by reading enemy attacks, you're going to have a bad time, because anything in these games can straight ruin you if you're not paying attention even if you're beyond them in power. That's what core systems like dodging and blocking are for, and if you can do those all its about is assesing your situation.
The alternative is dumbing down the level and boss design across the board so the game is more accessible, which of course would ruin it for other people. Yeah they could just design everything differently for easy mode, but at that point you're playing a different game and then why even bother playing the game at all.
Trainers can only do so much, theyre there to help you and teach you, but they can't do it for you. At the end of the day its still going to take some effort and struggle on your part to learn what you're doing, and thats what this series is all about, learning. Deaths are your trainers, it tells you you did something wrong and not to repeat that mistake.
You could make the argument that these games need better tutorials so that everyone better understands the games systems. But it doesn't need an easy mode.
Also pretty interesting how you think self-selection only biases Dark Souls' percentages, as if other games were bought at random by people that didn't know a thing about them. News flash: people who buy MGSV probably like MGS games too, and yet look at the percentages.
While that's indeed plenty ridiculous for a supposed Easy Mode, you even glossed over the "be human" part. If a player is struggling, you can be sure they aren't swimming in humanity. This means they'll likely have to farm to keep their "easy mode" going, potentially between each attempt. This Easy Mode also opens you up to invasions, which is another absurd angle to the alleged lowered difficulty. I kind of prefer the exclusionary "this game is not for them" answers over the "it already has an easy mode" or it's already easy" ones. They're less patronising or intellectually dishonest.These are just a few reasons why the "But Souls games already have an Easy Mode!" defense is so flimsy. How many other games can you think of where certain difficulty modes vanish when you aren't online? How many are there where difficulty modes appear or disappear depending on how many other people are playing the game?
I've been trying to play this "Easy Mode" with a friend in the original Dark Souls recently, and ignoring the insane amount of bullshit you have to go through to get that game just working on PC, fulfilling all of the conditions to allow co-op is ludicrous. You need item X, you need to be in area Y (but if you've defeated Boss A you need to both make your way to area Z), player A has to be human but player B doesn't... and this is freakin' Easy Mode? I've been playing video games for nearly 30 years and I've never come across anything like this.
You can still be very easily overwhelmed by even the simpler enemies even with some numbers turned down which is the point im trying to make. If the movesets are the same there are plenty of enemies in Dark Souls III that can and will stunlock you or launch yoy into the air, sometimes even off the map if you don't know how to deal with them and that is a frustrating situation regardless of whether or not their damage and health are turned down. So that alone isnt really helping anyone. The games are designed in a very specific way to make sure that their difficulty doesn't come from those numbers alone, it comes from the way the enemies and levels are designed and that's only been taken further and further the longer the series has gone on.This is a very insightful post but I have to say I disagree with the assertion that lowering enemy stats and tempering enemy aggressiveness wouldn't serve well as an easy mode. The fact that grinding up stats in the game as it stands right now can make such a huge difference is a pretty good proof of concept for an easy mode in general being a lot more approachable, even with just tweaking of numbers.
Does it hurt me? (In the event that its only number changes in a different mode) no of course not. But like i say above, its not really helping anyone either.I get that and I don't want them to change how the game works. I think tweaking a mode with stats for you and the enemy or even just adding a optional buff/debuff when you die X times would be enough for most and won't require any basic gameplay changes.
(PUG WoW raids style)
My extreme example with trainers was that if you use it to enable godmode you can still enjoy the game without any difficulty if only for story or whatever alone even if you use it all the time or toggle it.
You might not enjoy it that way, and I might not enjoy it that way but someone else might and it won't affect either of us.
XpostDoes it hurt me? (In the event that its only number changes in a different mode) no of course not. But like i say above, its not really helping anyone either.
Now I do think this could change a lot for a lot of people.WoW is a great example of this.
Just ignore the difficulties that don't apply to you, as intended.
LFR is to see/experience the content and nothing more.
Normal is for the more casual players.
Heroic is for your semi-hardcore raid group.
Mythic is for your hardcore raid group.
Now say Dark Souls give you two options;
Simple - Easier mode for experiencing the content
Souls - The Souls experience
A simple fix for Simple mode would be to remove some boss moves from being used and/or adding (yet again taken from WoW) Determination
Your persistence in the face of adversity strengthens your resolve.
Damage dealt increased by 5%.
Healing received increased by 5%.
Health increased by 5%.
Which you can accept, will only trigger after X deaths and may scale even further if you keep dying.
This won't affect anyone or the gameplay design and it's just removing items and stat changing from the normal mode and shouldn't require any massive effort or implementation for the developer as mod tools already can do this with a few clicks.
Changing enemy patterns could work, but again, at least in later souls games like 3 i still feel it would only do so much for people that aren't getting it. Because even if you remove some of the Dancers moves like her grab attack and her freak out, shes still an incredibly difficult boss for others simply because of the way shes designed at her core. Her attacks are incredibly slow which makes it difficult to time your dodges and etc, and shes also a boss with pretty low health/damage considering where shes meant to be fought but ive still seen people on thos board consider her to be one of the most difficult bosses in the game or series. Ive beaten her with a longsword and greatsword, different sets of armor and on NG+ and consider her to be one of the easiest bosses in the game because i understand her mechanics, upping her health and damage would only make it marginally more difficult for me and marginally less difficult for others if they were to be lowered. Because at the end of the day its easy because i know what im doing, its hard for others because they don't.Xpost
Now I do think this could change a lot for a lot of people.
Its a percentage of how many people with said game have that trophy.Where are these percentages coming from, OP? Afaik PSN doesn't give this information, only levels of rarity.
Where are these percentages coming from, OP? Afaik PSN doesn't give this information, only levels of rarity.