sechsterangriff
Member
Over one year ahead of launch? Almost always.
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Yu Suzuki interview: Shenmue III models temporary, facial animation removed 1mo ago
- Thread starter HueyFreeman
- Start date
Seganomics
Member
I don't believe you.
To be honest, i think that's damage control.
But let's be honest here, Shenmue was THE most expensive game ever made during its time and now it's some kind of independant game. I'm sure it will feel cheap in a lot of places.... But i also think it's normal, i'm just happy to see that the story will be coming at an end because i'm confident the writing and the atmosphere will still be strong.
.... Or was I ? I'm concerned about the "this is not the end of story" part. Please AT LEAST have a good conclusion for this, i don't want to wait 15 years before the next Shenmue again !
But let's be honest here, Shenmue was THE most expensive game ever made during its time and now it's some kind of independant game. I'm sure it will feel cheap in a lot of places.... But i also think it's normal, i'm just happy to see that the story will be coming at an end because i'm confident the writing and the atmosphere will still be strong.
.... Or was I ? I'm concerned about the "this is not the end of story" part. Please AT LEAST have a good conclusion for this, i don't want to wait 15 years before the next Shenmue again !
I know its risky but why stop Shenmue being risky now. I think 4 is as far as it should be pushed.
Shame to rush everything on this game, especially since the slower pace is one of my favorite things about Shenmue.
nowheretorun
Member
I must be mad lol cos I was fine with the facial animation, almost as if what I expected. Kind of fits with the game.
However, after all this I started to think a bit deeper and can def see the appeal of better facial animation etc. After all, if this was Mass Effect, I'd be slagging it off to fuck!
However, after all this I started to think a bit deeper and can def see the appeal of better facial animation etc. After all, if this was Mass Effect, I'd be slagging it off to fuck!
PdotMichael
Banned
To be Fair those are the high res models, those arent used on gameplay, not even in all cut scenes only in certain ones
But they indeed are Very beatiful
If you look at secondary characters they are kinda ugly for today
Well, Yakuza is an annual series with tight budgets.
Shenmue is more a result of plain inferior staff in pretty much all visual areas compared to Nagoshi's team. Shenmue looks like a patchwork of work from random people without cohesive art direction.
SprachBrooks
Member
encephalon
Member
So they had animations, they weren't going well, and have to be redone from scratch?
Brigandier
Member
I can't shake the feeling that there is an agenda with a lot of people regarding Shenmue III in the gaming industry ever since the KS was announced especially on gaf people want this game to fail or be a complete shit piece for no other reason than "for the lulz".
It was so obvious that animations are incomplete and will be added properly when they are ready and for people saying it looks like a PS2 game I feel like I'm reading YouTube and gamefaqs comments I thought trolling and stating bullshit false opinions were frowned upon around gaf but the amount of dumb shit I read in every Shenmue thread is laughable.
Seriously some people need to engage their brains and use rationality before posting "looks trash, looks shit, looks like ps2 game"....
It's a mid budget game that isn't quite ready to show properly but Suzuki has had no choice due to fan and backer demand, let's judge the game next year when the game is nearer to completion rather than judging the book by its cover, Suzuki is an absolute wizard of a director and producer and I have rock solid faith that he and his team will make a great looking and playing game that we want.
Also to people who have said the environments are not that good in other threads please get your eyes checked out ASAP.
It was so obvious that animations are incomplete and will be added properly when they are ready and for people saying it looks like a PS2 game I feel like I'm reading YouTube and gamefaqs comments I thought trolling and stating bullshit false opinions were frowned upon around gaf but the amount of dumb shit I read in every Shenmue thread is laughable.
Seriously some people need to engage their brains and use rationality before posting "looks trash, looks shit, looks like ps2 game"....
It's a mid budget game that isn't quite ready to show properly but Suzuki has had no choice due to fan and backer demand, let's judge the game next year when the game is nearer to completion rather than judging the book by its cover, Suzuki is an absolute wizard of a director and producer and I have rock solid faith that he and his team will make a great looking and playing game that we want.
Also to people who have said the environments are not that good in other threads please get your eyes checked out ASAP.
PdotMichael
Banned
Don't do that defence force shit. It didn't work out for No Man's Sky it will not gonna work here.
If stuff are looking bad then accept it that people are telling their opinion and don't "wait".
Seganomics
Member
I'd love nothing more than for another good Shenmue game. But those character models look pretty awful to me.
GhostTrick
Banned
If something's not ready, don't focus on it. As I said, they should've cut the face focus parts of the trailer.
Maybe they deliberately showed very early footage so they can then show how far they've come with a more recent build. But even then, that sounds like throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Because it's a kickstarter project you pretty much have to be more open about development, you get kneejerk reactions either way though. But yeah, most people aren't used to seeing actual in development stuff, at least on the console side.
I guess they could have shown only environments, but then it would have felt pretty light.
sechsterangriff
Member
A lot of people ate their share of crow simply because this game being in production. So even if they aren't doing it consciously, I don't doubt there's a degree of ill will towards the game. There's too much of "concern" trolling floating around for it to be justified or just coincidence.
That being said, this trailer should've been backers only. It's missing features the general public usually expect and the general public is unforgiving if expectations aren't met. The general public doesn't care for your reasons.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Brigandier
Member
People are more than entitled to voice criticism but when it's just complete nonsense and people not using logical thoughts then yes it annoys me.
Defense force lol... gimme a break I'm not one of them guys who will quote 100s of people in every thread looking like an idiot.
Suzuki and the team should of shown environments only and pictures of characters and explained work in progress to avoid the typical internet reaction to something.
Seganomics
Member
Yes for real. I watch a lot of trailers and often end up playing the final game, any massive leaps in improving facial animations and the general look have rarely happened. In fact I would argue the reverse is sometimes the case although clearly the faces in Shenmue will not get worse, that would almost be impossible.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
If faces and a logo transition for a trailer of a game from an indie sized studio that isn't even in a pre-alpha state is enough to scare people away from a game, then clearly they weren't interested in the game to begin with and should save their breath. The rest of us with a functioning brain understand this game is in deep development and don't go on for multiple posts worried that they showed incomplete faces for less than a few seconds in a near 2 minute trailer.
And I guaran-fucking-tee had they not shown faces, you or the bounty of other wonderful well informed armchair devs would be complaining that "they didn't show faces wtf!"
GhostTrick
Banned
In fact, remember what I said about the logo. Well, they proved it themselves they could do better in the SAME video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=22s
This is amateurish as fuck. Movie maker tier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=1m10s
This is a shit ton better.
In the SAME video. Remember when I said 10 minutes ? Yeah, more like 10 seconds.
Also, I didn't said "don't show the faces", I said don't show them when the body are moving into action. I already highlighted in the very same thread when it's okay and when it's not:
Show this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=21s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=33s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=43s
Don't show this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=18s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=38s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UweI4Ra2QbM#t=40s
Also, yes, indie sized. Have you kept record of the indie scene ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5El-yYNUwU
Cause this is what an indie guy, did alone, in his room, with no budget. It sure took time, but he was alone with no budget. Animations are better, even if not perfect. But that's not even the point, so i'll repeat again, highlighted:
If you have no facial animation, don't focus on faces during the trailer. It doesn't mean dont show them, it means don't show them while the body is animated in action scene.
Seganomics
Member
The majority of this post comes off as incredibly patronising
IronicSonic
Member
30 hrs of gameplay is good news. A lot more than I thought.
Are you really against a creator having a vision and being unwilling to go again it?
No wonder many think games can't be an art form.
Spaced Harrier
Member
Things don't "look bad" when they ain't fucking present.
Engage your brain, there was no facial animation in the trailer.
Either:
A. There is never going to be facial animation beyond slow blinking, which would be out if character for Suzuki.
Or
B. The facial animation isn't done yet/was removed for some reason to fix/polish/recreate.
Everyone talking about bad facial animation is a moron, when it's painfully obvious it's not there. At all.
It's a work in progress. They haven't even casted the VO yet.
When the animation is in place, then criticise to your heart's content.
Until then the only thing worth saying in it is the lack of animation gives the current models creepy doll like looks against nice backgrounds and lighting and some decent animation from the training sequence.
It's super hating and curious why thrybchose ton release that trailer at all.
But if you can see through an obvious issue, it looks great imo.
GhostTrick
Banned
Right, which raise the question again: if these elements wheren't present, why do the video focus on the face at the worst moment. At some moment of the video, namely the ones with slow movements, it's not a problem to not have facial expressions. But during combat or close ups, it's more problematic.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Yu's hand was forced to put something together and that's what he/they did, but yes he should have made it clearer in regards to the incomplete state, but let's be honest we are 15 to 18 months out still, did he really have to?
Dead End Irony
Member
Wait wasn't this footage from like a year ago? Gives me a little more faith that the faces will be fixed. Honestly most troubling thing to me was the logo, but I'll live lol.
we always knew the story was not going to finish with three, his outline span maybe like 6 games
That's because it is. It doesn't mean he's wrong, though.
Leyasu
Banned
Yes they've already made huge strides with the environments and character models. As a reminder here was the original render compared to what we have now-
Looks like a character from virtual fighter.
I think now it's the right time to remember how the trailers for Shenmue II were. The first substantial one was this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_LIqh4oeE
IMO this should have been the template for this first Shenmue III trailer too: focus mainly on environments, play some nice and new music, and show only small bits of the game that are actually finished.
Then, much closer to release and with the game almost finished, do the full blown trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Izd2f6k2I
(this trailer still gives me goosebumps everytime I see it)
As a backer of the game that has followed development, I honestly think the current situation is more of a lack of competent marketing people than about the quality of the final game. But that bad marketing could affect the game success after all. I assume the trailer was made by YSnet themselves (since its structure seems to be the same shown in backer's dinners), and it's understandable they are a small studio and might not have capable marketing people. I hope in the future both Deep Silver and Sony (which have endorsed this trailer by putting their logo and uploading it to their official Youtube channel) will have more control with that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_LIqh4oeE
IMO this should have been the template for this first Shenmue III trailer too: focus mainly on environments, play some nice and new music, and show only small bits of the game that are actually finished.
Then, much closer to release and with the game almost finished, do the full blown trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Izd2f6k2I
(this trailer still gives me goosebumps everytime I see it)
As a backer of the game that has followed development, I honestly think the current situation is more of a lack of competent marketing people than about the quality of the final game. But that bad marketing could affect the game success after all. I assume the trailer was made by YSnet themselves (since its structure seems to be the same shown in backer's dinners), and it's understandable they are a small studio and might not have capable marketing people. I hope in the future both Deep Silver and Sony (which have endorsed this trailer by putting their logo and uploading it to their official Youtube channel) will have more control with that.
Seganomics
Member
He's saying that people with crticisms of what is presented in the trailer should 'save their breath' because the people with actual 'brains' are the only one's that know what's up.
Anyway....
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Perspective people perspective.
HueyFreeman
Banned
I think ultimately this probably would have been the best way to go. instead of raising a chorus of excitement all this has done is fuelled doubt that he can accomplish something impactful (which he almost certainly will)
There was and still is a similar phenomenon with the last guardian - a contingent of people who want it to fail because of... well I'm not really clear.
This is the thing - there's a lot of other info in the OP. I should have probably gone with a different title.
Like how about the completely new fighting engine as oppposed to the virtue fighter engine? This game was originally developed as a virtua fighter RPG! (Also for some reason that worries me about the future of VF in general)
You were right - should have listened to you
Spaced Harrier
Member
I guess they have story boarded the cinematic camera angles and have them implemented already.
Try this Gif It has cinematic camera direction, and the animation is detailed.
(Just not in the face where it is lacking entirely)
Even when the camera does a small pull back, its not linear, it has a subtle natural motion effect, like a camera held in the hands would have.
Look at the End of the sequence, When Ryo and Johnny Big Lips clash and he goes forward on one leg, there is a subtle animation of momentum change as he moves forward, reaches the apex and moves backwards slightly.
The arm adjusts as a counterbalance.
You don't animate stuff like this, and keep lifeless doll heads.
Brigandier
Member
Translated Famitsu Yu Suzuki interview:
http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/08/translationinterview-with-yu-suzuki.html
GameSpark Interview
http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/08/translation-interview-with-yu-suzuki.html
http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/08/translationinterview-with-yu-suzuki.html
GameSpark Interview
http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/08/translation-interview-with-yu-suzuki.html
GhostTrick
Banned
I guess they have story boarded the cinematic camera angles and have them implemented already.
Try this Gif It has cinematic camera direction, and the animation is detailed.
(Just not in the face where it is lacking entirely)
Even when the camera does a small pull back, its not linear, it has a subtle natural motion effect, like a camera held in the hands would have.
Look at the End of the sequence, When Ryo and Johnny Big Lips clash and he goes forward on one leg, there is a subtle animation of momentum change as he moves forward, reaches the apex and moves backwards slightly.
The arm adjusts as a counterbalance.
You don't animate stuff like this, and keep lifeless doll heads.
This sequence looks fine, as we don't get a focus on faces.
The other one though is blatantly bad. But then again, why show the other one ?
Chittagong
Gold Member
So gaf melted down over nothing? I'm shocked!
Game looked amazing
HueyFreeman
Banned
Awesome, I'll throw those in the OP.
zeopower6
Member
The thing is, this is more of a Kickstarter progress-type video than a typical trailer like for most games. I don't get why they decided to release it on such a large scale honestly, but it is clear that a lot of will change whenever they show off more in 2018.
Well, when you're told from the very start that everything is in-progress or in the process of development, I don't know what else people can tell you. Especially after the guy who is directing the game says the models are temporary.
In this case, enough time had passed where if they showed off environments only, it wouldn't be enough and people would think "they aren't far along enough to show more than this?". This was a lose-lose scenario for any sort of reveal.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Seen this song and dance of "things will be improved!" with loads of other projects, Mighty No 9 included. Surprise! They come out and have often never improved those aspects and immediately start playing "Maybe in the sequel!!" game.
This trailer showed me the project is in trouble and, outside of environments, its beyond the current talent. Yu Suzuki can have the most amazing vision in mind, the fact is he is no longer backed by AM2 and some of the most talented people working in games. We're getting seemingly student project level hires here, and unless they have the balls to start firing and re-hiring, those 'provisional' models 2 years in are where they're at. Especially jarring when they're behind the Dreamcast games after 2 years in everything but environments which UE4 is greatly helping with.
This trailer showed me the project is in trouble and, outside of environments, its beyond the current talent. Yu Suzuki can have the most amazing vision in mind, the fact is he is no longer backed by AM2 and some of the most talented people working in games. We're getting seemingly student project level hires here, and unless they have the balls to start firing and re-hiring, those 'provisional' models 2 years in are where they're at. Especially jarring when they're behind the Dreamcast games after 2 years in everything but environments which UE4 is greatly helping with.
are you jumping the gun on a project a year or more away
Because sometimes developers are happy people who want to share things, before they are reminded of who their audience is.
zeopower6
Member
I think in this case, Yu probably knows what he's doing. They are being rather transparent about things being temporary so I'm not sure why anyone would expect things to remain as they are in this teaser unless they were absolutely dense. Maybe when they do their media blitz in 2018 and things are still like this, then we can be worried. But for now, just wait and see.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Maybe I'd be willing to overlook Weird Anime Eyes Grandad from one of the screenshots as an NPC that needs work, but Shenhua looks like a fucking generic Poser model. That's 2 years in. You've not got your main characters right yet? Who made those models then, the guy thats occupying the 3D Character chair at work until they track down some actual talent? I've worked in the industry, I know how this shit goes. Make sure you go back and really rake those Mass Effect Andromeda doubters over hot coals while you're in the mood too. No Mans Sky looks like its about to come together any day now.
This project seems 2+ years out, but the more they struggle with even getting this shit right early on, my hopes for so much of the rest of its scope shrink in kind. They're already burning through finite money. At some point things like this enter into the "forced to ship" zone.
IronicSonic
Member
This trailer is probably my favorite of all time. That music, the graphics, that Sega-giving-everything vibe attached to it, SO GOOD
HueyFreeman
Banned
Some nice new stuff in that Famitsu interview, if mostly minor details. I've updated the OP - Forklifts make a comeback!