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American McGee starting to work on a pitch for 'Alice: Asylum' to be presented to EA

I dunno, I'd be down if he made this one play good. The art was neat but what a long and boring game that second one was

Edit: Oh, he backed GamerGate? Yeah fuck him then
 
KyleCross said:
Best go find yourself a nice cozy hole to live in then, cause otherwise yes, yes you do.
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(dragon's quest, not yakuza, hopefully)
 
Harlequin said:
I'd definitely be up for more Alice.

That really doesn't sound very GamerGate-y. But then I haven't seen the tweets/post/whatever-it-was where he supposedly "allied" himself with GamerGate so who knows.
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Yeah, I included that passage (to which you're referring) precisely because it had suggested to me that his views would not possibly be compatible with those of Gamergate, and to thereby underline my surprise/disappointment in hearing what a number of posters here have (not incorrectly, it seems) indicated about some of his other expressed views:
http://www.blumhouse.com/2016/08/10...-the-disappearance-of-american-mcgees-sister/
American McGee:
https://www.facebook.com/americanmcgee/posts/10152832790032075
I'm prepared for the SJW flamethrower...

Seriously, isn't Anita saying this character is acceptable because she's such a blank slate? I can't help but think the "woman" in this game might as well be wearing a burka for all the identity she has. If this is "positive" and we (as game writer/designers) are meant to emulate this model... then I imagine the characters in our future games getting some really odd looks as they walk down the streets of virtual Los Angeles, sneak through the corridors of Space Station 009, or try to blend into any world that isn't a magical fantasy world of pixel make-believe.

To me, real characters, positive characters, have flaws. They're broken. They have an identity constructed of past events – good and bad. Like real people, they might make poor "life choices" which result in them being shallow minded, skin revealing, homicidal maniacs, who wear women's lingerie under their space armor. Or, like the rest of us, they might be who they are, and wear what they wear, because society (the real world) hasn't left them many other options. If we're going to tell real stories, it's best we do that with characters who closely resemble real people.

Pixel burka woman is art. So are real people.
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This caused some...controversy. And feeding fuel to the flame, McGee posted a link titled, "My $10,000 offer to Anita Sarkeesian" in which Milo Yiannopoulos challenges her to a debate on the #GamerGate issue, promising to donate $10,000 to any charity she chooses. McGee commented and said he thought it would be a very interesting debate.

This is when all hell broke loose.
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Garlador said:
...the tragedy of his missing sister and the death threats directed at her shortly before her disappearance. Not that it makes him right or justifies his stance, but I'm still hoping she turns up alive and well... but it's been nearly two years now.
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That is truly awful to hear. I hope she is somehow OK.
Garlador said:
...To be very clear, American McGee's views on censorship and criticism are different than many of ours, and he's a huge advocate towards free speech - even caustic and toxic views - in part because he's lived in China for many years and their own brand of censorship and speech suppression has given him quite a bit of pause. So when Gamergate swelled, he welcomed discussion on both sides and advocated for debate, defending the right to criticize but also saying those same critics needed to be willing to engage with the dissenting opinion, that both the portrayal of women as strong characters AND as big-boobed beach volleyball sex objects were equally valid displays of creator intent and art. The merits of that stance were... problematic, and he received a lot of death threats over his initial support of Gamergate advocates who wanted to debate critics like Anita.

The resulting fallout, however, I think entrenched him further in one corner than the other. His own personal views on women in games do seem contrary to the Gamergate manifesto, especially given how many of his coworkers and female players vouch for his design sensibilities when it came to Alice. But he got voraciously attacked for equating "both sides" as having valid points in an environment that demands you choose a side, and the disappearance of his sister shortly after receiving death threats explicitly calling her out and bragging about how they knew where she lived would warp anyone's perspective on the whole Gamergate ordeal...
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Also very important to consider, in this context. Thanks for the additional clarification.
 
I give this 0,0001% chance of happening with current EA direction unless he found a way to make multiplayer GaaS game with loot boxes out of it.
 
Sorcerer said:
Why EA specifically? I am guessing they own the ip? McGee cant make an Alice without them?
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That's exactly correct. He does not have ownership of the IP. I do recall him saying that EA remains interested in a revisit, however, so that's probably why this pitch is happening.
 
I would love a new game,AMR was the first game i've played from previous gen so it has a special place in my heart.
Although i don't see this petition coming into fruition,sorry for being so negative but it would be like talking to a wall with EA.
 
Schopenhauerian said:
Yeah, I included that passage (to which you're referring) precisely because it had suggested to me that his views would not possibly be compatible with those of Gamergate, and to thereby underline my surprise/disappointment in hearing what a number of posters here have (not incorrectly, it seems) indicated about some of his other expressed views:




That is truly awful to hear. I hope she is somehow OK.
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So why exactly are people saying stuff about never buying his games again? None of the things he said really seemed to be harmful or mean to anyone in any way.
 
PsihoPerihelion said:
He went full "Trump blaming both sides" on this lol. Yeah, I'm never buying any of this guy's games again.
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To his defense (as much as I am able), someone claiming to be anti-Gamergate threatened to kill him and his sister, and then his sister went missing and is currently presumed dead.

As I said earlier, doesn't excuse it his stance, but this is a messier case than most.

SleepingDragon said:
So why exactly are people saying stuff about never buying his games again? None of the things he said really seemed to be harmful or mean to anyone in any way.
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To be very clear, American McGee's views on censorship and criticism are different than many of ours, and he's a huge advocate towards free speech - even caustic and toxic views - in part because he's lived in China for many years and their own brand of censorship and speech suppression has given him quite a bit of pause. So when Gamergate swelled, he welcomed discussion on both sides and advocated for debate, defending the right to criticize but also saying those same critics needed to be willing to engage with the dissenting opinion, that both the portrayal of women as strong characters AND as big-boobed beach volleyball sex objects were equally valid displays of creator intent and art. The merits of that stance were... problematic, and he received a lot of death threats over his initial support of Gamergate advocates who wanted to debate critics like Anita.

The resulting fallout, however, I think entrenched him further in one corner than the other. His own personal views on women in games do seem contrary to the Gamergate manifesto, especially given how many of his coworkers and female players vouch for his design sensibilities when it came to Alice. But he got voraciously attacked for equating "both sides" as having valid points in an environment that demands you choose a side, and the disappearance of his sister shortly after receiving death threats explicitly calling her out and bragging about how they knew where she lived would warp anyone's perspective on the whole Gamergate ordeal.
 
Garlador said:
To his defense (as much as I am able), someone claiming to be anti-Gamergate threatened to kill him and his sister, and then his sister went missing and is currently presumed dead.

As I said earlier, doesn't excuse it his stance, but this is a messier case than most.
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Oh crap, really? That's way messy to even discuss it in here. Like, it's either a really bad coincidence or some fucked up thing happened with that anti-GG guy, unless it was a GG posing as an antiGG, which is fucked up anyway.
 
PsihoPerihelion said:
He went full "Trump blaming both sides" on this lol. Yeah, I'm never buying any of this guy's games again.
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I really don't give a shit about the guy's politics or positions on anything. I give a shit about him when he's developing games. Him being a shitty person shouldn't stop me from wanting another Alice game.
 
After one page of hate against the guy, some people finally show "evidence" of why he'd deserve hate and boycott... and we see perfectly calm, mundane, and balanced statements. Seems like the hate doesn't come from him.

If you add to that the stuff with his sister, the guy is remarkably calm.

SleepingDragon said:
So why exactly are people saying stuff about never buying his games again? None of the things he said really seemed to be harmful or mean to anyone in any way.
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Because for some people, if you're not 100% following their exact views, then you and your family don't deserve to work/exist/not be insulted, apparently.

For the record, I loved the first Alice game and hated the sequel, which lacked the balance and subtlety of the first game IMO.

Trago said:
I really don't give a shit about the guy's politics or positions on anything. I give a shit about him when he's developing games. Him being a shitty person shouldn't stop me from wanting another Alice game.
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And on top of that, nothing indicates he's a "shitty person". Lynch mob mentality is scary.
 
I would, at the very least, be interested to see what a new Alice game looks like. Madness Returns was a great looking game, but I didn’t like it very much. I would still check it out.
 
From what I can tell, he sounds more like he's trying to be neutral. It's not great by any means, but it's not like he's gone full bigot.

And his creative stances in Alice have always seemed pretty feminist-leaning to me.


I loved both the first two games, and I'd have no qualms about supporting a third.
 
Wow this situation doesn't sound as cut and dry as people want to make it sound... what ever the case, I hope his sister is fine, cause at the end of the day despite how much you might not agree with someone hoping for harm to befall that person and their family and friends is inexcusable...
 
cj_iwakura said:
From what I can tell, he sounds more like he's trying to be neutral. It's not great by any means, but it's not like he's gone full bigot.

And his creative stances in Alice have always seemed pretty feminist-leaning to me.


I loved both the first two games, and I'd have no qualms about supporting a third.
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On top of that, his game was used as a positive example in one of the episodes of Tropes vs Women in Video Games on Feminist Frequency.
 
Honestly, based on the stuff that's been posted in here, I don't think that he's said anything particularly terrible or unforgivable. I can see how it might be a bit controversial or why people may not agree with it but it's also not the same as "allying himself with GamerGate" and it's really no reason to boycott his games IMO.
 
Simbabbad said:
After one page of hate against the guy, some people finally show "evidence" of why he'd deserve hate and boycott... and we see perfectly calm, mundane, and balanced statements. Seems like the hate doesn't come from him.

If you add to that the stuff with his sister, the guy is remarkably calm.


Because for some people, if you're not 100% following their exact views, then you and your family don't deserve to work/exist/not be insulted, apparently.

For the record, I loved the first Alice game and hated the sequel, which lacked the balance and subtlety of the first game IMO.


And on top of that, nothing indicates he's a "shitty person". Lynch mob mentality is scary.
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Yep. Nothing he said is disagreeable unless you take an extreme position on either side of GG. And the people who do take those positions are typically nuts. The death threats made to him regarding sister (where her name, address, and other personal information were detailed in the threat) were made by someone who proclaimed to be anti-GG.

Also shocked by people calling him a bigot based on those posts. There's nothing bigoted about what he said.
 
It's crazy that no one has drawn a duck drinking a milkshake (or at least not that I can find yet) cause I just wanna post a duck drinking a milkshake to summarize my feelings instead of typing words.
 
Having read the incriminated posts I'd say that some people should think twice before declaring the witch-hunt opened, metaphorically speaking.

Anyway, this news has put me in the mood of trying to finish Madness Returns, though it is quite the undertaking.
 
I'm So down with a third alice game with Frostbite or UE4 but since its EA...
There probably a higher chance of a remastered edition than a third one..
 
Malyse said:
It's crazy that no one has drawn a duck drinking a milkshake (or at least not that I can find yet) cause I just wanna post a duck drinking a milkshake to summarize my feelings instead of typing words.
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Only if someone draws an associated drawing for when you actually read the information and find out you were a little too quick to jump on the bandwagon.
 
I never knew about gg or his sister. It's sad but I'm glad he's keeping himself busy and hanging in there.


Good luck with the pitch!
 
Personal opinions aside, there are ways that EA could get this done, via licensing or their new EA Originals program. I'd like to see a new Alice game, preferably with the team that made MR.
 
What happened to that Wizard of Oz game he wanted to make at some point? Sounded more interesting than going for Alice yet again.
 
I love the Alice games above and beyond all reason, and have probably spent fuck knows how much money on merch. Sign me right up for this.
 
EA: Can we put microtransactions in it?

McGee: Well, that wasn't part of the idea-

EA: A season pass?

McGee: I hadn't planned on it, bu-

EA:

q7nqBUb.gif
 
Keym said:
What happened to that Wizard of Oz game he wanted to make at some point? Sounded more interesting than going for Alice yet again.
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I believe that was on Kickstarter and it did not get funded. Which is pretty sad since I'd love to see this type of game based off another story.
 
Maedhros said:
I would be ok with a season pass if it was the price to have a new Alice.
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Similarly, if American wants to sell 100 different Alice outfits, that's fine with me. Alice: Madness Returns had great outfits, and none of them felt like pandering fan service.
 
This is awesome. Loved the aesthetic of the first 2 games... But, I remember them to be pretty repetitive game play-wise. Still, fond memories of these games and how different they were. Looking forward to what they show of this!
 
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