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The Power of Developers to Deny the Right to Use Their Content - a Debate thread

You don't need to invoke DMCA to block someone's videos so they don't make money off your work. I'm guessing the devs just used content ID.
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It's what many companies do. Your video isn't deleted, but no one else can watch it.
 

besada

Banned
I guess a more open-ended question I'm wondering myself here is, though, is should this be the case? Like, if most people watch Let's Plays for the commentary of the LPer and not for the footage of the game itself, why shouldn't that be fair use? I understand the movie comparisons here, but games aren't movies, and LPs are inherently devoid of any interactivity the game offers.

If they watch it for the commentary, then removing the game content shouldn't be a problem. But, of course, they don't watch just for the commentary, but for the combination of commentary and seeing the game. No one's going to stop anyone from showing some of the game -- with some being a negotiable amount -- but LPers show everything. Every twist, every boss, every surprise, every secret. That's a problem for publishers and devs.

And it's easy to find evidence that this hurts the market, because you can find a ton of people who say stuff like "I'll just watch the LP to find out how the story ends."
 

FyreWulff

Member
You can't make special exceptions. Either you are for open streaming (read: fair use) or not. But you have to be consistent, imo.

Yes, the steamer is a dick and good on Campo for calling it out, I just don't feel like they have a argument to stand on here with regards to DCMA. Unless... They are against streaming full stop. Which is a legitimate opinion.

Copyright law allows for unequal enforcement and revocation of a license at any time (of course, if you've signed an actual honest to godt contract, you can get sued if you end a licensee's license early, but that's contract law, not copyright law)

As far as the law is concerned, a copyright is yours (functionally forever, these days) unless you legally transfer it to someone else. You could go dormant for 40 years, then suddenly decide to go after all infringing works.

I guess a more open-ended question I'm wondering myself here is, though, is should this be the case? Like, if most people watch Let's Plays for the commentary of the LPer and not for the footage of the game itself, why shouldn't that be fair use? I understand the movie comparisons here, but games aren't movies, and LPs are inherently devoid of any interactivity the game offers.

Movie reviewers and book reviewers don't show the entire work / copy and redistribute it for their reviews or impressions. Let's Players are distributing the creative work in it's entirety along with their derivative work. Fair Use is much narrower than people believe it to be. To begin, it has to qualify under one of the four factors, and the Let's Play market pretty much fails all 4 substantially.
 
My example wasn't actual critique though. It was someone who provides actual critique, then later streams himself playing the game to show evidence of its issues. I guess a more straighforward example would be someone who does a Let's Play with critical commentary in it. The developers try to send a takedown not on the basis that he's critical but on the basis that the Let's Play isn't offering sufficient commentary to be fair use.

I guess a more open-ended question I'm wondering myself here is, though, is should this be the case? Like, if most people watch Let's Plays for the commentary of the LPer and not for the footage of the game itself, why shouldn't that be fair use? I understand the movie comparisons here, but games aren't movies, and LPs are inherently devoid of any interactivity the game offers.

If it's actual critical analysis and it's only a segment of the game, then yes, you could use a Fair Use defense and probably succeed (with even more chance of success if the video was purely for educational purposes and had no monetization). Streaming the entire game generally would nullify the Fair Use defense even with legit analysis. And most commentary during LPs wouldn't qualify as critical analysis.

If they watch it for the commentary, then removing the game content shouldn't be a problem.

Some instances of circumventing copyright issues separate out the "transformative" element to try to cover themselves legally - for example, Rifftrax (MST3K successor) could make audio joke tracks to movies that you could play while simultaneously playing a legal copy of the movie. Or a lot of fan-translations of games will just provide a patch file that you have to apply to a game file but won't provide the game file. It would be difficult to do something like this for LPs, but it theoretically is possible - you'd need something to play the audio file as well as something that would ensure that the state of the game matches up to what the LPer was doing at every moment.
 

GamerJM

Banned
Let's Players are distributing the creative work in it's entirety along with their derivative work.

Everyone else who's responded to me makes a fair point, but I don't agree with this. They're not distributing the interactive aspect of the game. The degree to which they're distributing the creative work varies from game to game (I'd argue they're distributing more of the work in an LP of a linear story driven game than in videos of online multiplayer) but I don't think they're distributing it in its entirety in any case.
 

KonradLaw

Member
What PewDiePie did was awful, but Firewatch devs bassicaly threw entire streaming/YouTube community under the bus with their DMCA. Because unless Google decides not to honor it, it means that every "we're giving you permission to stream with revenues" statement by devs is utterly worthless.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Everyone else who's responded to me makes a fair point, but I don't agree with this. They're not distributing the interactive aspect of the game. The degree to which they're distributing the creative work varies from game to game (I'd argue they're distributing more of the work in an LP of a linear story driven game than in videos of online multiplayer) but I don't think they're distributing it in its entirety in any case.

You can't actually copyright game mechanics, so they are in fact distributing all the copyrightable aspects (voice performance, sound performance, art, and writing)
 
Everyone else who's responded to me makes a fair point, but I don't agree with this. They're not distributing the interactive aspect of the game. The degree to which they're distributing the creative work varies from game to game (I'd argue they're distributing more of the work in an LP of a linear story driven game than in videos of online multiplayer) but I don't think they're distributing it in its entirety in any case.

That's absolutely irrelevant.
 

Lothars

Member
you might as well say you agree with digital homicide if you think this is okay. get ready for ubisoft and other publishers to take down videos next.
False equivalency abound. Your examples aww extremely poor and honestly if they did the same thing against pdp or another racist moron than great. Maybe it will make YouTube a better place.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Is downloading the game files and distributing them elsewhere not copywriting game mechanics through copying of code?

That's copyright infringement via distributing the game's code, which is copyrightable. You still can't copyright game mechanics themselves.
 
What PewDiePie did was awful, but Firewatch devs bassicaly threw entire streaming/YouTube community under the bus with their DMCA. Because unless Google decides not to honor it, it means that every "we're giving you permission to stream with revenues" statement by devs is utterly worthless.

Yes.

Because Let's Plays have been tolerated because opposing them was more hassle than it was worth.

Now that people are going holy shit racists are saying racist shit over top of our games it's no longer more hassle than it is worth.

Don't blame the Devs blame PDP. Blame the inumerable number of sycophants who rally to defend him (including several bigger name gaming YouTubers).

Toxicity needs to be scrubbed and if the childish community is not going to do it, eventually the adults will and it won't be fun.
 
What PewDiePie did was awful, but Firewatch devs bassicaly threw entire streaming/YouTube community under the bus with their DMCA. Because unless Google decides not to honor it, it means that every "we're giving you permission to stream with revenues" statement by devs is utterly worthless.
They were ok with letting it go before because at least it spread awareness about their game even if they might lose potential sales if someone watches the whole game. This was before racists/alt-right/white supremacists/Nazis infected gaming Youtube. Now, developers will have to think twice who should be allowed to LP their game. So, take it up with Pewdiepie in causing this change.
 

KonradLaw

Member
Yes.

Because Let's Plays have been tolerated because opposing them was more hassle than it was worth.

Now that people are going holy shit racists are saying racist shit over top of our games it's no longer more hassle than it is worth.

Don't blame the Devs blame PDP. Blame the inumerable number of sycophants who rally to defend him (including several bigger name gaming YouTubers).

Toxicity needs to be scrubbed and if the childish community is not going to do it, eventually the adults will and it won't be fun.

There will always be toxic idiots on the internet. But the recent push towards cleaning it up seems like it will end up killing everybody in the streaming/LP industry, while I doubt it will remove toxicity for good.
 
There will always be toxic idiots on the internet. But the recent push towards cleaning it up seems like it will end up killing everybody in the streaming/LP industry, while I doubt it will remove toxicity for good.

LP was always on borrowed time. Maybe if the main prominent gaming YouTubers didn't trot themselves out to defend each other (ok usually defend PDP) everytime one of them does something racist... PDP might not have felt so comfortable.

In the end blame PDP for being racist
 

Nanashrew

Banned
There will always be toxic idiots on the internet. But the recent push towards cleaning it up seems like it will end up killing everybody in the streaming/LP industry, while I doubt it will remove toxicity for good.

I mean, it was inevitable as let's play's got bigger and more guidelines and policies introduced in this rapidly growing new business venture. PDP is just help speeding it all up now because it turns out, the #1 biggest YouTuber on the planet is a racist idiot and essentially seen as the face of YouTube.
 

KonradLaw

Member
LP was always on borrowed time. Maybe if the main prominent gaming YouTubers didn't trot themselves out to defend each othet everytime one of them does something racist... PDP might not have felt so comfortable.

In the end blame PDP for being racist

I blame both him for being an asshole and the dev for lacking the foresight while issuing the blanked permission before, despite being unwilling to abide by the pacta sunt servanda rule. In the end I guess there's no reason to actually care, because you're rightr that with foresight the collapse of the LP industry was always inevitable. Sooner or later some idiots were bound to kill it.
 

pelican

Member
In the end blame PDP for being racist

It is possible that developers/publishers use PDP's behaviour as a means to an end.

I've thought for a while that LPs in their current form are on borrowed time. Far too many making money on other's work without any form of kick back.
 

Armaros

Member
It is possible that developers/publishers use PDP's behaviour as a means to an end.

I've thought for a while that LPs in their current form are on borrowed time. Far too many making money on other's work without any form of kick back.

Using PDP to kill LPs doesn't get them anything besides not having the biggest Youtuber be racist with their videogame IP on the screen.
 

pelican

Member
PDP is just help speeding it all up now because it turns out, the #1 biggest YouTuber on the planet is a racist idiot and essentially seen as the face of YouTube.

Its not just PDP though that is the problem. The YT community is a fucking joke. Comment threads full of abuse - race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Wankers post on YT without any consequence.
 

pelican

Member
Using PDP to kill LPs doesn't get them anything besides not having the biggest Youtuber be racist with their videogame IP on the screen.

It sends a message. It starts the process of influencing more control. It may set a precedent for others.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
In general, I'm a strong proponent of LPs and other derivative works. When a dev is against that content, I think it's overly restrictive in a petty way, because I haven't seen evidence that LPs hurt a dev's bottom line.

But when a dev is pro-LP for the general populace and anti-LP for racists specifically, they're not being petty, they're being just. This follows the same sort of logic as the belief that firing an employee for spouting racist remarks is just. So, I fully support the use of legal means to take down videos posted by racists.

Turning a blind eye to racism helps no one.



This, for comparison, would be petty, and not just. So, I do not support takedowns such as your example.
Act morally, and you have my support. Act selfishly, and you do not.

There is no slope. It's as simple as that.



That's not a particularly funny thing at all. Humans judge the same actions differently depending on the context. This is a normal, everyday occurrence.
When someone cuts an apple with a knife, it's fine; when they cut a human, it's bad; when they cut in self-defense an assailant hell-bent on taking their life, it's somewhere in between good and bad, with a lot of murky feelings for everyone.
The same action will always have different meaning depending on the context. That's the way it is, and the way it should be.

There is a slope... not everything is simple “racism/nazi” vs normal statements... what if the LP’s is pro abortion and actively discusses it? What if he or she is strong on stem cell research and DNA therapy (the Let’s Play God can of worms)? Etc... essentially the LP’s is talking about extremely unpopular topics... are people only allowed to talk about popular things that upset no one (burden is trying not to upset anyone, not for people to switch to a different channel of course...)?

There are many cases where the game publisher would not want to be link d with the discussion at hand and would prefer to shut it down... criticism of the game included.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Its not just PDP though that is the problem. The YT community is a fucking joke. Comment threads full of abuse - race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Wankers post on YT without any consequence.

Yep, also true! All of it is really adding up. I say PDP is doing a great deal in putting the eyes on him and the community from his stupid antics being so popular.
 

Armaros

Member
There is a slope... not everything is simple ”racism/nazi" vs normal statements... what if the LP's is pro abortion and actively discusses it? What if he or she is strong on stem cell research and DNA therapy (the Let's Play God can of worms)? Etc... essentially the LP's is talking about extremely unpopular topics... are people only allowed to talk about popular things that upset no one (burden is trying not to upset anyone, not for people to switch to a different channel of course...)?

There are many cases where the game publisher would not want to be link d with the discussion at hand and would prefer to shut it down... criticism of the game included.

The bolded would be actually Fair Use...and the company would lose horriblely in court and all the resulting bad PR

None of the rest of it is any different before and after PDP, they have always had this power. There is a reason why LPs overall were left alone, and its not because of developer's good will most of the time.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
They were ok with letting it go before because at least it spread awareness about their game even if they might lose potential sales if someone watches the whole game. This was before racists/alt-right/white supremacists/Nazis infected gaming Youtube. Now, developers will have to think twice who should be allowed to LP their game. So, take it up with Pewdiepie in causing this change.

Please... there have been racist bigots on YouTube for far far longer than that lol.
 

Stiler

Member
It is possible that developers/publishers use PDP's behaviour as a means to an end.

I've thought for a while that LPs in their current form are on borrowed time. Far too many making money on other's work without any form of kick back.

Kick back? I don't think you understand how many sales developers get from people like PDP and other large streamers give them.

Seriously, there are games that were "successful" because PDP played them on video and got many of his viewers to buy the game.

Do you think games like PUBG would be doing as good if it wasn't streamed?

While I certainly don't agree with what PDP said, it would be woefully ignorant of publishers/dev's to simply dismiss the entirety of streamers and cut off all lp's of games.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
The bolded would be actually Fair Use...and the company would lose horriblely in court and all the resulting bad PR

If the YouTuber brings them to court... not everyone has the money to actually follow through trial and appeals against big corporations. Especially when there would not be big punitive damages to entice potential lawyers and there is not class to share the suit with :/...
 

Armaros

Member
If the YouTuber brings them to court... not everyone has the money to actually follow through trial and appeals against big corporations. Especially when there would not be big punitive damages to entice potential lawyers and there is not class to share the suit with :/...

That literally could happen without this event. And has happened.

Some of you are acting like new laws just got written in response to PDP...

This is how it has always been, You-tubers were just under the delusion that they had free-reign because companies didnt enforce copyright on LPs because the companies benefited from it. Now they dont beacuse of racists and are enforcing control over their IPs.
 

Instro

Member
Nothing of value would be lost. Preventing scum from gaining massive platforms to spew shit across is far more important than any potential ramifications, and now is the time for companies to start taking a hard stance on this shit.
 

jabuseika

Member
They have to protect their brand from being associated with racists.

This is really no different than advertisers pulling their content from hateful channels.


Also, if your posts starts with " Well if you're for this then you most also be for..." , that's not a good argument.
 

redcrayon

Member
I'm not a huge fan of streamers in general. To my understanding, 'fair use' in copyright law (depending on where you are) implys using a small portion for critique, quote, comment or parody, or not publishing the core, most fundamental elements (or at least these weight heavily on the judgement), not streaming 40 hours of a 40 hour game while shouting over it. I can't just read a 10,000 page book aloud while adding my thoughts at the end of each chapter and call it an audio book with all proceeds going to me. Of course it's a grey area, multiplayer combat or stuff like minecraft you'd struggle to see the streamed portion as essential, but a single player game that shows off every area, every boss fight, every cut scene? I'm not so sure.
 
Would it be okay if some other kind of company did this?

Like Camera, car, bike, skateboard, instruments, fitness equipment etc.

Should they be allowed to prevent people who purchased stuff these companies manufactured, from making videos and making money just because the company does not like how the person behaves or what their views/opinions are?

If the answer is no then the same applies for software/games as well.
 
Would it be okay if some other kind of company did this?

Like Camera, car, bike, skateboard, instruments, fitness equipment etc.

Should they be allowed to prevent people who purchased stuff these companies manufactured, from making videos and making money just because the company does not like how the person behaves or what their views/opinions are?

If the answer is no then the same applies for software/games as well.

Ummmm....

That's not remotely compareable.
 

GamerJM

Banned
I will say that I don't think that it's very likely that publishers/developers sending DMCAs to racists/bigots in response to what they say on their streams makes it very likely that they're just going to restrict Let's Plays entirely if they haven't done so already. It definitely doesn't seem like an excuse to just ban LPs that they've been waiting for to me. Why wait this long? So the whole slippery slope argument that comes from this specific situation seems like kind of a moot point to me anyways.
 

Armaros

Member
Would it be okay if some other kind of company did this?

Like Camera, car, bike, skateboard, instruments, fitness equipment etc.

Should they be allowed to prevent people who purchased stuff these companies manufactured, from making videos and making money just because the company does not like how the person behaves or what their views/opinions are?

If the answer is no then the same applies for software/games as well.

So you are saying you can read an entire book with your personal annotations and then sell the audio-book without the permission of the author and/or publisher?
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
I wouldn't want my work being a source of revenue for a racist shitbag like PDP either. If developers want to wring streamers of their opportunities to make money on the grounds of said-streamers being racist fuckwits, then power to 'em.

Would it be okay if some other kind of company did this?

Like Camera, car, bike, skateboard, instruments, fitness equipment etc.

Should they be allowed to prevent people who purchased stuff these companies manufactured, from making videos and making money just because the company does not like how the person behaves or what their views/opinions are?

If the answer is no then the same applies for software/games as well.

Advertising and sponsership deals are a thing.

If some dirt bike racer covered in corporate logos came out and said "Oh and fuck the Jews!", all those sponsers are within their right to pull that motherfucker's funding. If a movie is made where the protagonist goes around beating immigrants, every intentional and non-intentional bit of product placement has to be cleared. Meaning if this protagonist started assaulting a migrant worker, then reached for a visible can of Coke, it means the Coca-Cola company had to approve of its use (and I would assume they most-certainly wouldn't.)
 

SMD

Member
Oh, I think YouTube should absolutely be the most responsible platform here. No disagreement about that. I think the fact that so many racists have found a platform on YouTube is horrible alone, but the fact that some of the biggest, most mainstream well-known YT names are diet racists at best and essentially full-fledged white supremacists at worst is fucking unbelievably shameful for the biggest videosharing platform on the internet.

But this topic isn't about that (if I understood the OP correctly), it's about whether or not developers have control over use of LPers and other video content makers to deny use of their IP or not. Not YouTube itself. Of course YouTube does, it's their platform.

The problem with ignoring YouTube's role is then you get into the murky discussion of what you're classing a Let's Play video. Is it a performance or a report? Is the game the entertainment or the tool/prop?
When you're tuning into a PDP show, would you watch someone else play through the game or not?
I think the best way is for there to be some kind of legal arrangement where streamers opt into a standard agreement or licence. But then who polices that? We're back to the platform again.

Viewers have a responsibility too. Stop watching these knobbers and they'll get the message.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I'm not sure this boils down to much more than 'I don't like how they're using my content,' which is a pretty dangerous precedent. Do we force creators to deal with usuage during criticism of their work, but have power if the transformative part is morally abhorrent?

Just not sure how you could draw a line and keep Fair Use a strong legal argument..

This is where I'm at as well.

Like, okay, I have a pretty principle stance on copyright needing to function as a Public Good. Other public goods include things like the airwaves, roads, stuff like that. Like, if we go back in time, before a lot of gigantic companies started merging with each other to create monopolies that destroyed copyright law, we can see that copyright law also functioned in this way. The intent/purpose of copyright law is to protect the creator of that work for a set period of time before allowing it to become public domain.

This is something that's recognized in most fields of criticism/scholarly theory/etc as well. Roland Barthes, whether he meant to or not in "death of the author," essentially makes the case, whether intentionally or not, that the public will inevitably take a work as its own. That's simply the nature of culture. You cannot control what people do with your ideas, because ideas don't work that way. Once someone is exposed to your ideas, they will, inevitably, take some ownership over those ideas.

It is generally seen, by anyone who cares about the culture in which they live, that this completely human, unstoppable behavior is crucial to the flourishing of human culture and interaction.

Copyright law exists--or is meant to exist, in its idealistic form--as a means of allowing creators to profit from the works they create prior to the work entering the public domain. Corporations, most notably Disney, have worked to treat art as a property that can be controlled and limited.

I see this as an abuse of copyright law in its intent--this isn't about protecting Campo Santo's ability to make money, this is about their desire to limit someone else's expression.

While that expression is reprehensible, this is not the purpose of copyright law, and Campo Santo would be abusing it to issue a DMCA takedown.

I find the whole "all youtubing is copyright infringement" statment made by Vanaman to be an absolutely disgusting and excessively capitalist take on art's function.

I get being mad that shitty people like your shit, but this is a lot worse, I think.

Some article was floating around last week that said something like (and I'm paraphrasing) "hey, you don't like what the ACLU is doing? Who do you think should define hate speech? The government? The government run by Trump and Pence? You'd rather that the Republican-majority government impose limits on speech? This is why the ACLU has to defend the indefensible. To prevent people like Trump and Pence from being able to limit what YOU say. Because if you want the government to control speech, if you set that precedent, then there's a good chance they're coming after your speech. So, to protect you, the ACLU has to protect awful people."

So when Campo Santo suggests abusing the DMCA and setting this precedent that YouTubing, which is a net good thing, is infringement, I think they are helping push us towards the Disneyfication of copyright law, and robbing us of a public good.

I mean, I can't think of any way that what they're doing is a good thing, even though I get being mad at a dumb ass YouTuber.

I feel like, if I'm upset at/opposed to a musician using DMCA takedowns on work that she composed but does not retain ownership of, or DMCA takedowns by devs who don't like negative criticism, I also must, on principle, oppose what Campo Santo is doing here.

I don't see any case where I can feel otherwise.

Anywho, LPs are transformative works, so I'm not sure how a DMCA claim would stand up legally.

It is possible that developers/publishers use PDP's behaviour as a means to an end.

I've thought for a while that LPs in their current form are on borrowed time. Far too many making money on other's work without any form of kick back.

If I buy a hammer and I use it to build a dozen houses, the hammer manufacturer doesn't get a cut of the houses I built. They sold me a hammer, I bought the hammer, it's mine now. I can do what I want with it. Anyone who thinks devs should get paid for coverage of their work is an asshole. And I say this as a dev.
 
The Power of Developers to Deny the Right to Use Their Content to earn money - a Debate thread

There OP. It's more clear.

You can buy any game you want even just to burn it but being able to use it as a way to promote your channel, yourself or anything (and most of the time earning money) has to be controlled.

It doesn't mean asking for permission but you have to "declare" your usage of the product/content and then if a good thing devs will be ok.
Some will say yeah but some devs will just tell all the people making them bad press that they can't use their content. Then it's even more risky and can be even worse. It just depends on the quality of the community, if gaming enthusiasts and gaming sites are watching if something crosses the line then everyone will keep it's freedom of speech. Just not the freedom to spread hate.
 
Would it be okay if some other kind of company did this?

Like Camera, car, bike, skateboard, instruments, fitness equipment etc.

Should they be allowed to prevent people who purchased stuff these companies manufactured, from making videos and making money just because the company does not like how the person behaves or what their views/opinions are?

If the answer is no then the same applies for software/games as well.

Answer is no. If the brand of any of the product you listed here can be associated with a message of hate then you'll be attacked. If you used it and it's not obvious or you're not relying on it then you may be safe.

I'm just baffled by how many people are now almost thinking it's nothing or not the same just because we've sadly got used to it in the gaming industry...

Not saying you find this ok or normal, just that it should be obvious that:
- the spread of hate shouldn't be tolerated at all
- using some other person content to make money has some rules
 
Everyone else who's responded to me makes a fair point, but I don't agree with this. They're not distributing the interactive aspect of the game. The degree to which they're distributing the creative work varies from game to game (I'd argue they're distributing more of the work in an LP of a linear story driven game than in videos of online multiplayer) but I don't think they're distributing it in its entirety in any case.

TLDR: I agree with the above. You can't treat games like film and copyright law needs to be updated.

I agree. The argument to LPs has always been grey. Some LPers do offer critical analysis, but is that protected by fair use? Whats the difference between this and showing an entire movie while having running critical analysis?

The matter is very grey and I think for a lot of people, myself included, I would prefer a definitive legal decision on this. Copyright law is very out of date when it comes to this sort of thing and it causes issues like Homicide Studios to happen.

Going back to games, games are a fairly unique medium. It doesn't work unless the player is involved. So what right does the player have to the game or gameplay? You can't say the player has no right to the gameplay, because if they weren't involved, there would be no gameplay. So the player has some right to it.

Now what about games with extremely limited gameplay? Games that are called walking simulators. The only option for the player is to move forward. The player has so few options that essentially the game could play itself. In this case it's much more similar to a movie. If you show the whole thing without commentary, is it the same as just uploading a movie to youtube. The difference is it still needs the player.

What about strategy games where the experience is different each time? Or RPGs where the player's build options could change the gameplay content for each player?

Gaming as a medium has an incredible amount of variety. You can't just put a blanket rule on this. Just look at YouTube right now to see the damage caused by it.

This isn't even getting onto how LPer might be transforming it through their commentary or not.
 
Has that actually been tested in court? I'm pretty sure they're considered transformative works, but I could totally be wrong about this.

No they haven't... but it's the entire game and I'm not inclined to believe the player making the character move and do actions (as designed by the Devs) is transformative. Thus we are left with the talking over top and movies have demonstrated that's not transformative either

YTers are freaking out right now because I'm pretty sure they know if an LP case goes to court they're fucked.
 
No they haven't... but it's the entire game and I'm not inclined to believe the player making the character move and do actions is transformative.

YTers are freaking out right now because I'm pretty sure they know if an LP case goes to court they're fucked.

If I filmed myself doing an escape room. Does the company that own the escape room now have right to my film?

http://www.theescaperoom.co.uk/[/ur...eld or organisers have rights on the footage?
 
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