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[Dr_LucienSanchez]

From The A.V. Club, by one of my favorite writers there (Sean O'Neal).

Pretty accurately reflects my experience with anime, and how my views have changed over the years. I watched a bunch of Miyazaki films when I was a kid (and still love them), but the stigma around the rest of the medium, as well as the (sometimes crazy) fandom, has always turned me off from checking anything else out as I got older. That's changing slowly, but it's certainly difficult to fully get into.

Anyway, choice blurbs from the beginning:

Spiky-haired characters with illogical bodies yelling at each other about magic totems or weird animals. Skimpily dressed schoolgirls who alternate between displaying chipper, flushed-cheeked innocence and furiously shooting lasers from their hands. Somebody straps into a big robot or is revealed to be the ancient spirit of something or other or simply balloons to enormous size, then they begin rampaging through the city until they’re vanquished by more lasers and yelling, and everything wraps up with an incongruously silly pop song. Anime fans will tell me this is an unfairly reductive summary of a widely varied art form. But I’m only telling them what they already know: Anime has a branding problem.

In the lull between Star Wars films, anime somehow became the lingua franca of not just the internet’s proudest weirdos, but also its loudest assholes—and that was even before it became all tangled up with the “alt-right.” Professed anime fans like Milo Yiannopoulos used it to speak directly to the lonely, 4chan-dwelling men who would make up the soldiers of their meme war. Yiannopoulos started out doing Digimon reviews for Breitbart and ranting about the wrong kinds of anime fans as a pretext to pivoting into an even more toxic form of obnoxiousness. And while widely punched white nationalist Richard Spencer has admitted he’s not all that familiar with it, he’s certainly embraced it as a marketing tool. He told BuzzFeed News earlier this year that “the aesthetics of the alt-right, I would say, could involve anime”—“aesthetics,” in this case, involving the online proliferation of anime girls wearing Make America Great Again hats that Spencer and his troll ilk believe constitute their cultural revolution.

But anime is not its fans. And besides, these days—as with so many former “geek” provinces—it seems like a lot of people are into anime, not just the socially marginalized.

Anyway, after I got done making fun of her, I realized that the fact that I could love an anime fan, marry an anime fan, and father potentially anime-loving children with her… well, it only confirmed that there’s nothing inherently self-defining about liking anime. Maybe I would like it, too, if only I saw the right stuff? So I polled my anime-loving co-workers, most of whom prefaced their recommendations with “I wouldn’t call myself an anime fan, but…” After letting them squabble among themselves for a bit, they designed this four-course syllabus for me, which I then assigned myself to watch something from, every single week. And so my anime education began. Maybe I would emerge a secret, self-loathing anime fan, too?

The rest of the article goes into the specific shows/movies that the author watches. It's definitely worth a read, even if I'm sure some of the fans here will have some issues with how the writer tackled the medium.

 

[Htown]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

 

[Ever]

Absolutely not.

Anime is a sin and should never have existed.

 

[shnurgleton]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

How

How is this possible

 

[Calderc]

Every single thing about anime puts me off. Can't see me turning around anytime soon.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

The anime avatar brigade are extremely off putting, like the sonic people, but not just that, the repetitive sophomoric themes, low quality animation, the moe.., the perception of that puts off people who could otherwise be interested.

It seems like the industry is in a spiral sometimes, catering only to the socially deficient, hyper-targetting them due to how much they will spend, instead of looking for that wider audience.

I mean most people don't even perceive Ghibli stuff to even be anime. Literally seen as class apart, its own thing.

For me, the only anime I've consumed in recent years is Cowboy Bebop, Space Dandy, and Goldenboy, in the 90's and early 2000's I used to watch those films (OVA? never could follow the terminology) and maybe the dark and brrody nature of them were overkill, but jesus, they had style.

All 3 are excellent by the way, as tv shows in general, not as animes.
Bebop drips atmosphere, Space Dandy has some truly excellent and unusual modern animation and surprising themes. And Goldenboy was just fucking hilarious, some amazing slapstick animation.

 

[Firemind]

Anime is a medium.

 

[Ryuukan]

No, anime is for babies

watch live action Japanese dramas instead

 

[Mesoian]

You can, but...

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

Yup. The crux of his argument is, "I think these anime tropes are bad, but I still want to indulge in them on my terms" and that's not how passive media works.

I mean, real talk, this article spends more time on anime fans than it does on anime itself, but then pulls back hard by saying "but anime isn't it's fans".

Like, this article seems like it's for people who have no idea what anime is and have no interest in watching any anime period.

the main protagonist's suave, chain-smoking version of jaded ”cool" felt like the exact kind of misanthropic posturing that many of those self-styled internet rebels adopt. It all just left me cold.

Christ on a fucking pogostick. This is trash. This dude will not stop comparing the actual works to the meme'd fandom he claims to not be judging.

Every cliché I've ever seen bandied around about anime—the empty hypersexualization of women, the bad music, the ludicrous pile-ons of weapons and technology in place of actual story, the WTF moments of casual incest—seemed to be contained in that very first episode, and I bailed on Bubblegum Crisis before those rocker ladies could even put on their mechanized exoskeletons (or whatever). I just felt embarrassed to be watching it. From what I've read, the characters are given slightly more shading in the 1998 reimagining Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040, but, eh, that's okay. What Bubblegum Crisis taught me, like Cowboy Bebop, is that ”Blade Runner flavor" alone isn't enough to sustain my interest; no amount of futuristic sin city vibes outweighs feeling like I should close my laptop when my wife walked in on me.

The author never took this assignment seriously. Geeze. The actual review portion of this article reads like an "adults react to..." transcript.

 

[Usobuko]

Watch Mushishi

 

[Ratrat]

I find it odd and disturbing to single out a specific countries output in a medium. You dont like foreign things. Fine. Move on.

 

[Oberon]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

The way people overhype that anime I doubt it will live up to the expectations to people that keep hearing of it but never watching it ( like me)

I used to watch way more anime, mostly out of bordom. But now I watch like one anime a year at best.
Anime as a medium isn't that different from other things.
If you avoid the trash you can have a good time. Sometimes you can have a good time looking and laughing at trash.

 

[Aikidoka]

Anime is a medium.

exactly what I think when someone tries to generalize about it. Just like other media, a lot of it is bad and sexist/bigoted.

 

[paperboywriter]

Absolutely not.

Anime is a sin and should never have existed.

signed

 

[How About No]

Anything is possible

with the power of friendship




I would recommend something like Baccano, its lighter on the the cringey-animeisms (whatever that means) and would be good to ease you in to other things.

Also the English dub is really damn good and Chicagoean

 

[PixelatedBookake]

The anime avatar brigade are extremely off putting, like the sonic people, but not just that, the repetitive sophomoric themes, low quality animation, the moe.., the perception of that puts off people who could otherwise be interested.

It seems like the industry is in a spiral sometimes, catering only to the socially deficient, hyper-targetting them due to how much they will spend, instead of looking for that wider audience.

I mean most people don't even perceive Ghibli stuff to even be anime. Literally seen as class apart, its own thing.

For me, the only anime I've consumed in recent years is Cowboy Bebop, Space Dandy, and Goldenboy, in the 90's and early 2000's I used to watch those films (OVA? never could follow the terminology) and maybe the dark and brrody nature of them were overkill, but jesus, they had style.

The thing is though, that it's easy to not watch those shows. 90s and early 2000s had just as many shit shows proportionally, but people choose to ignore that just to push this narrative that "anime in the 90s was better" because that's when they grew up/first encountered anime. You know how easy it is to google "best anime since 2000" or whatever? It's really not hard to look.

 

[FullMetaltech]

I think theres alot of animes that convey good stories. Like " Your Name", Orange, Your Lie in April, Wolf Children ect". Yeah some seem silly but i guess its dependendant on ones taste.

 

[flintstryker]

Anime is a medium just like any other I have no idea why this is such a hard concept to grasp

 

[Weebos]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

To be fair the first episode of Bebop is probably the worst one.

 

[Rumblebones]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

I love Cowboy Bebop.

It comes as no surprise to me people would find it boring. I found it boring myself at a time. That's why I never recommend it to first time anime viewers. My go to for that is Fullmetal Alchemist because it represents the best of the medium, is easily digestible and the perfect length.

Cowboy Bebop is great, but it's also slow and introspective and that can be a hard sell to people new to the medium.

 

[jello44]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

..that's gotta be a troll.

 

[KazenY2J]

Appreciate it maybe, doubt they'd love it though.
Also, this thread should be fun.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

The thing is though, that it's easy to not watch those shows. 90s and early 2000s had just as many shit shows proportionally, but people choose to ignore that just to push this narrative that "anime in the 90s was better" because that's when they grew up/first encountered anime. You know how easy it is to google "best anime since 2000" or whatever? It's really not hard to look.

Possibly, also the exposure path was different back then., less of the shit flowed through.

But, when I flick through the options available on Netflix or Cruchyroll, or look left at the characters in peoples avatars, I'm not given much hope.

 

[Nishastra]

Anime is a medium just like any other I have no idea why this is such a hard concept to grasp

I can't stand films. They're nothing but gunfights and chase scenes, and the film fandom is terrible.

 

[Terrell]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

Speaking of things that repel people from anime....

I can't stand films. They're nothing but gunfights and chase scenes, and the film fandom is terrible.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but anime hasn't been something that's culturally evolved in Western culture and has very distinct attributes that don't afford it the same kind of nuanced opinion. Anime to an outsider is viewed as a genre, not a distinct art form like film is, and the fandom is structured in ways that are similar to genre fandoms, which complicates the situation.

 

[HStallion]

Author of this story sounds like he's got a ton of preconceived notions and stereotypes in his mind's eye and then associates the most negative elements of the fandom with anime in general, an entire medium that has everything little kids shows to serious adult dramas and everything in between.

I love Cowboy Bebop.

It comes as no surprise to me people would find it boring. I found it boring myself at a time. That's why I never recommend it to first time anime viewers. My go to for that is Fullmetal Alchemist because it represents the best of the medium, is easily digestible and the perfect length.

Cowboy Bebop is great, but it's also slow and introspective and that can be a hard sell to people new to the medium.

Cowboy Bebop is better put together than most live action shows and since when is being introspective and "slow" (which makes little sense as a descriptor of CB) a bad thing when some of the most popular live action shows can be slower burns and full of introspection? It sounds more like people have a bigger issue with taking animated stuff as serious art.

 

[Ratrat]

signed

Always agree with a furry.

 

[Exr]

Nobody should volunteer for social regression

 

[SillyEskimo]

I remember when it was called Japanimation.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

If Dan Ryckert can come to the realization that he has been an anime fan his entire life, then so can everyone else.

 

[Elandyll]

Absolutely not.

Anime is a sin and should never have existed.

Anime is a medium, same as comics, novels, cartoons or live movies...

Saying 'anime is a mistake' because you don't like a certain sub genre or style within it is like saying 'movies were a mistake' because you hate rom coms.

 

[TissueBox]

Satoshi Kon wins.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I remember when it was called Japanimation.

Streamline Pictures fans unite!

 

[Thatonemoor]

I've come back around to anime in recent years after being frustrated with it for a long time. Getting into the new shows has been fun but I can understand why it isn't for everyone. My brother for example isn't interested in anime right now.

 

[HStallion]

Satoshi Kon wins.

His passing was probably one of the biggest blows to animation in general, not just anime.

 

[captainpat]

Cause 4chan represents the bulk of anime fans. Definitely not people in, you know,Japan

 

[Ratrat]

His passing was probably one of the biggest blows to animation in general, not just anime.

It was a blow to Japanese cinema tbh.

 

[Killer Queen]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

It's overrated

 

[sixteen-bit]

Anime is not for everyone, and that's ok

 

[PillarEN]

It happens. I had zero interest in anime growing up (if we exclude Pokemon, which is a heavy outlier for any kid from the 90s/later 80s). Wasn't until I randomly bumped into someone previewing the first two episodes of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and something pushed me over the edge to check it out. Then, after falling in love with that show I started to take in maybe a series or two a year. It wasn't really until like 4 years years ago that I started to care a little more.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Yiannopoulos started out doing Digimon reviews for Breitbart and ranting about the wrong kinds of anime fans as a pretext to pivoting into an even more toxic form of obnoxiousness

is this true because lol

 

[Big One]

They're just Japanese cartoons that has something for every demographic possible. It's nothing to over think.

 

[Einchy]

He should've watched more short series and less movies. It's kind of a given that he would like the movies he watched.

 

[see5harp]

I understand why a fanbase might turn you off to something but I really don't get how you could write off the entire thing based on that alone, especially if you specifically write about entertainment.

 

[Aiustis]

If you approach it as a diverse medium and look for what you like in things you already watch. Don't take recommendations from weebs.

I would not describe myself as an anime fan in the least, but I do consider some anime amongst my favorite things to watch.

Edit: not even the art styles are all the same.

 

[./revy]

If you're a lifelong skeptic of any medium, you probably have bigger personal issues to deal with.

The author should make this a series. He can title the next one, "CAN A LIFELONG SKEPTIC OF WATERCOLOR LEARN TO LOVE IT?" And then spend the entirety of the article critiquing young children who claim they enjoy watercolor while searching for examples from professionals on 20 kbit/s dial-up and giving up after 1/12th of the image is loaded. Slap a Patreon link on that and the man will be drowning in wealth.

Like, some of you guys go and see superhero films in theatres on release night. I don't judge your masochist fetishes.

 

[Qvoth]

watch one punch man and mob psycho 100

 

[Einchy]

I understand why a fanbase might turn you off to something but I really don't get how you could write off the entire thing based on that alone, especially if you specifically write about entertainment.

Especially when Akira and Spirited Away are classics just in the medium of film.

 

[Fj0823]

Anime is a medium.

This.

If you watch stuff like Oreimo or SAO and think that's all there is, you're simply wrong.

 

[SomTervo]

I find it odd and disturbing to single out a specific countries output in a medium. You dont like foreign things. Fine. Move on.

Um. There's slightly more to it than that.

I enjoy some anime but for every one show I find enjoyable, excellent even, there are at least 40 which are complete trope-ridden agony to watch. A lot of the time these tropes even bleed into decent shows.

There's bad stuff in every medium but I find the ratio in anime just shocking, honestly.