How About No
Member
thank god i wasn't born then
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Can a lifelong anime skeptic learn to love it?
- Thread starter Dr_LucienSanchez
- Start date
thank god i wasn't born then
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
But this is kind of the problem, right?
Im wary to even admit on this forum that I only made it through three episodes of a particular show because of reactions like this.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
Osukaa
Member
As a Anime fan since the 80's Anime has been a major part of my life as much as video games. I do not feel that I need to act like a bigot or say this is better or that is better but I agree that alot of the fans have become jerks and drive people away from wanting to give it a chance. There is anime for all ages of people. I do go to Anime Expo (try to go yearly) and I do have subscriptions to Crunchyroll etc but I dont consider myself to be an in your face fan. In fact I really enjoy talking about it with people who dont know what to watch or where to start. I feel that if you go in with the midset that you hate it then there's probably not much we can do to change your opinion as you will constantly be looking for flaws, which all mediums have.
You really have to disassociate the people who go overboard with anime and just enjoy it. Why single out anime though? I know its easy to attack or judge but I feel that it gets a bunch of unwarranted hate by some people who just hate it and will never like it for whatever reason moreso than video games. GAF has a pretty good community of anime fans who would be more than happy to discuss it with anyone reading who is curious. Give us a ring or message and hopefully we can recommend something you may enjoy and if not then hey you can at least hopefully come out with the mindset of ok its not for me but I can understand why people are really passionate about it.
K
You really have to disassociate the people who go overboard with anime and just enjoy it. Why single out anime though? I know its easy to attack or judge but I feel that it gets a bunch of unwarranted hate by some people who just hate it and will never like it for whatever reason moreso than video games. GAF has a pretty good community of anime fans who would be more than happy to discuss it with anyone reading who is curious. Give us a ring or message and hopefully we can recommend something you may enjoy and if not then hey you can at least hopefully come out with the mindset of ok its not for me but I can understand why people are really passionate about it.
K
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Sure. Youll have that with every fandom though.
...I don't understand, you stopped watching a show because of the opinions other people had about you watching a show? That makes no sense.
If you stopped because you weren't enjoying it I can understand. But honestly, if your criticism of a show is, "geeze, this protagonist reminds me of all of those ::Scoff:: ANIME FANS out there, it must be trash", I don't want to hear your opinion. It's like saying Kurosawa is a shit director because his movies are in black and white.
Like, make no mistake, if you don't like Bebop, fine, not everything is for everyone. If you don't like bebop because it reminds of you the fandom you revile even when you state explicitly that you're trying to separate the fandom from the actual work, you're being an asshole and you're not taking this seriously.
Some demographics (heterosexual male otaku, many with pedophilic tendencies) get served far more than others (women, non-Japanese viewers (for obvious reasons), etc.).
The medium has a stigma for a reason. Doesn't make sense to me to deny that. There are certainly gems that help offset that, but there's no washing off the stench.
Yup. But this isn't going to be a popular opinion around these parts.
I think a lot of it has to do with how the industry functions and how brutal working conditions are.
Absolutely, and no one is really asking the author to do this, he himself says he's trying to separate the two.
This whole article just seems like one person went on google and typed in, "best animes" and then gave a list to someone who has no interest in anime and actively hates anime fans and told him to slog through as much as he could. That's not interesting, it's closeminded and dull.
please remove your slanderous edit
I have no interest in the cookie-cutter love triangle buffet that is kdrama
Hydrophobic
Member
They said they don't want to tell anyone they only made it through three episodes because they expect the reaction to that statement to play out the way it already has in this thread.
andythinkpad
Member
Exactly what anime did you finish? If you can't finish Cowboy Bebop, at some point you just have to accept that you have bad taste.
Ah I see.
Honestly, if you back up your disapproval with a well made statement of why you didn't like It, I doubt anyone would give you shit beyond the normal drive by shit posts that happen in every thread.
It sounds like this will be the series, the next one dealing with frank zappa music.
This whole thing seems very much in the lines of DSP.
A lot of it also has to do with what Miyazaki has complained about with regards to many anime producers working in isolation, never using real life or even non-anime references for inspiration. Because so many anime producers recycle and reference the same old tropes over and over and over again, often with only the most bare minimum of attempts to subvert or alter those tropes, we get a LOT of the same shit in a different skin. It's painfully apparent when you've been into the medium for a long time and watch stuff from outside of the industry, or when you watch something that was written by someone who does live action stuff (see: Shingeki no Bahamut).
Also doesn't help that the industry has a serious diversity problem, with the vast majority of staff consisting of like-minded heterosexual Japanese men, who won't exactly have the kind of diversity of perspective that helps make new and interesting stuff possible. It's unsurprising, then, that a lot of my favorite works come from the rare female authors who somehow manage to break into the industry (though they often do so in the form of manga, not anime).
Given enough of a demographic shift, the problem could solve itself. But that would entail getting a lot more women into the industry, and also a lot of foreigners (which will never happen for obvious reasons). Not holding my breath for that.
Audioboxer
Member
Ignore the shit, ignore the crazy fanbase and enjoy the good shit. Same advice I give to anyone unhappy that not nice people enjoy similar things to them. It's your life and you can enjoy things without caring too much about what everyone else is doing.
Anime is like comic books, there might be some trash, but there are some fantastic stories. If you're an adult who thinks all comic books are for kids, you might suffer with anime. I'm not talking about the creepy shit, or really poor taste content. Something like Cowboy Bebop or Ghost in the Shell (movies and series) can show what anime can offer. Even if neither are for you, there's artistic merit and displays of mature/well-thought-out storytelling in both.
Anime is like comic books, there might be some trash, but there are some fantastic stories. If you're an adult who thinks all comic books are for kids, you might suffer with anime. I'm not talking about the creepy shit, or really poor taste content. Something like Cowboy Bebop or Ghost in the Shell (movies and series) can show what anime can offer. Even if neither are for you, there's artistic merit and displays of mature/well-thought-out storytelling in both.
100%. It's no surprise that out of the 20-30 shows that debuted each season, there's only 1 or 2 worth watching. This past season I probably watched more shows than I have in the past 3 years, 2 of which out of morbid curiosity and only one that left any sort of lasting impression. The medium is diluted and interesting concepts are often strangled to death by gluts of shows targeted at whales that are all inherently the same, but have amazing merchandising ability, allowing them to rise to the top over most other things.
openrob
Member
Anime is NOT a genre. Anime is, in it's simplest, a style.
There are so many genre's that use this style. you have crappy teenage Rom coms, detective mysteries, sports shows and fantasy.
My favourite anime for people to jump into is death Note which although leans a little on the fantastical side is very grounded. Yes there is a lot of stuff you won't like out there, but it's like writing off The Shawshank Redemption because you don't like the Avengers.
There are so many genre's that use this style. you have crappy teenage Rom coms, detective mysteries, sports shows and fantasy.
My favourite anime for people to jump into is death Note which although leans a little on the fantastical side is very grounded. Yes there is a lot of stuff you won't like out there, but it's like writing off The Shawshank Redemption because you don't like the Avengers.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
He should have watched Sword Art Online.
Agreed. The problem is that when the average anime animator monthly salary is on the order of US $1000, it's going to be almost impossible to attract the kind of talent who can shake things up.
I also agree that the manga space is slightly more interesting, creatively.
Anime's a strange thing to me. The fanbase, I don't care about. That stuff only effects you as much as you expose yourself to it, and I either don't or just ignore people who I think are creepy/stupid/hateful/cringey types of people for the most part.
I have tried to watch certain animes at various times in my life, though, and I just can't really latch on with most of them. There are some exceptions - and it's been a while so I don't know if this would still be the case but - Perfect Blue, Paranoia Agent, most Studio Ghibli movies, Ghost In The Shell and probably a few others I'm forgetting have all been pretty good and I'm always up for something good.
When I was pretty young, like 10-14, I thought anime was super cool because it was a cartoon that sometimes had ultraviolence, dark subject matter and sex in it, so I watched a lot of stuff most of which I forget the names of now. Obviously that was exciting to me then, but when I tried to go back to watch other things I hadn't seen as a kid it all just came off as very formulaic, juvenile and just kind of boring overall.
Anime is one of those genres, like video games or wrestling, that can kind of get into your bones and becomes hard to detach from even long after you decide they are bad. At least that's what I gather. So I think, if you're a person who feels like the type who would like anime, but doesn't really, consider it a lucky evasion of a potentially huge timesink that you are free to spend with more varied forms of entertainment.
I have tried to watch certain animes at various times in my life, though, and I just can't really latch on with most of them. There are some exceptions - and it's been a while so I don't know if this would still be the case but - Perfect Blue, Paranoia Agent, most Studio Ghibli movies, Ghost In The Shell and probably a few others I'm forgetting have all been pretty good and I'm always up for something good.
When I was pretty young, like 10-14, I thought anime was super cool because it was a cartoon that sometimes had ultraviolence, dark subject matter and sex in it, so I watched a lot of stuff most of which I forget the names of now. Obviously that was exciting to me then, but when I tried to go back to watch other things I hadn't seen as a kid it all just came off as very formulaic, juvenile and just kind of boring overall.
Anime is one of those genres, like video games or wrestling, that can kind of get into your bones and becomes hard to detach from even long after you decide they are bad. At least that's what I gather. So I think, if you're a person who feels like the type who would like anime, but doesn't really, consider it a lucky evasion of a potentially huge timesink that you are free to spend with more varied forms of entertainment.
Good article, I'm an anime fan but honestly I don't see him getting into anime long term. He mentions he isn't interested in fantasy, robots, schoolgirls/moe, and fight scenes (even the fairly short ones that Cowboy Bebop has), which covers quite a bit of anime in one way or another. Not that there aren't many shows that don't have any these things but he'll always have to rely on recommendations from people he trusts.
I think manga would have more material that could potentially appeal to him, or anime skeptics in general.
I think manga would have more material that could potentially appeal to him, or anime skeptics in general.
LowlySmokeGuy
Banned
Anime is for assholes.
Theodoricos
Member
The problem with the "anime is a medium" defense is that it ignores the fact that unlike books, movies, TV shows and games, anime originates solely from a single country, thus it seriously, seriously lacks diversity when it comes to storytelling despite the multiple genres it offers.
So it's entirely reasonable for one not to like anime in general, as a medium. Even most of the anime classics are still steeped in cliches and archetypes that permeate the entire medium. It's difficult to avoid them no matter which genre of anime you watch.
In my opinion there are a few shows worth watching, but it's really some of the movies that really manage to avoid the usual pitfalls when it comes to story and characterization. Watch anything by Studio Ghibli, Mamoru Hosoda, Satoshi Kon and Makoto Shinkai.
So it's entirely reasonable for one not to like anime in general, as a medium. Even most of the anime classics are still steeped in cliches and archetypes that permeate the entire medium. It's difficult to avoid them no matter which genre of anime you watch.
In my opinion there are a few shows worth watching, but it's really some of the movies that really manage to avoid the usual pitfalls when it comes to story and characterization. Watch anything by Studio Ghibli, Mamoru Hosoda, Satoshi Kon and Makoto Shinkai.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Things perceived as "cartoons" are always equated to as "for kids" and some people can't deal with it.
Also there are some pretty terrible anime fans. They're super vocal too, so I'm sure the combination of those two things make some people uncomfortable.
Good anime is rad though. Sucks for the people who can't separate a medium from its fans, but I sort of have that problem with Rick and Morty, so I can empathize.
Also there are some pretty terrible anime fans. They're super vocal too, so I'm sure the combination of those two things make some people uncomfortable.
Good anime is rad though. Sucks for the people who can't separate a medium from its fans, but I sort of have that problem with Rick and Morty, so I can empathize.
Just watch good anime lol. Haikyuu, Hajime No Ippo, Re: Zero, Steins Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist, Nichijou, Hunter x Hunter, etc, etc. Whenever I see people talk about anime as "anime" im like cmon man. There's a variety of different shows under that label. A lot of those shows are on some bullshit and definitely fit that stigma, but there are some quality shows out there worth your time.
petran79
Banned
I remember when I tried getting reintroduced to anime, Rumbling Hearts was one of the top ranked series. Couldnt comprehend why it was so special.
The more I watch the more skeptic I become too. Just find a decent anime review site or mediator to guide you. I remember frequenting Anipages a lot back in its heyday.
Had also some satellite TV anime channel (MANGAS) that showed some good series (Wolfs Rain, Captain Tylor, Witch Hunter Robin, Sakura Wars and some classics like Pygmalion too).
Or you might drown in the flood of lolicon promotion material.
I even read comments that GAF was a nest of paedophiles...
The more I watch the more skeptic I become too. Just find a decent anime review site or mediator to guide you. I remember frequenting Anipages a lot back in its heyday.
Had also some satellite TV anime channel (MANGAS) that showed some good series (Wolfs Rain, Captain Tylor, Witch Hunter Robin, Sakura Wars and some classics like Pygmalion too).
Or you might drown in the flood of lolicon promotion material.
The Googleth hath spoken.
I even read comments that GAF was a nest of paedophiles...
I think we can agree that using google recommendations as a research tool is probably unwise.
Ordinaryundone
Member
The author is so desperate to not be associated with "those" people that he throws an entire creative medium under the bus so he can feel superior.
What else is new?
What else is new?
Chairmanchuck
Member
It isnt that difficult imo. Its just that a lot of fans or people introduced to anime watch stuff not aimed for them.
If a 30 year old wants to watch anime, I would
recommend Tatami Galaxy, Kaiba or Monster, not FMA or Naruto which is aimed at teens/children.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
We just need to get as specific as possible, then. Anime counts as a sub-section of the animation medium, itself a regional category of animated cartoons. This way, one can separate their love of the medium from hate or disdain towards the vast majority of Japanese productions using that medium.
I won't deny that, in the case of anime, exceptions prove Sturgeon's Law. But the article author sounds like he didn't take a careful approach to seeking out previous impressions on shows or movies he might like, just looking at the buzzword-laden paragraphs. And it sucks having to stick to exceptional stories just to get into anime, but that's what a lot of people done through Ghibli films and the like. Our biggest problem is that, realistically, the anime industry at large can't change for the better. Its decadence and vicious recycling ties into a stagnant Japanese economy and salaryman lifestyle. There's a reason more non-East Asian animated cartoons have picked up "anime" influences, since Western cartoon markets are healthier (not dependent on Blu-ray sales, otaku money, and entrenched studios/networks). So there's more opportunity to diversify and adopt other regional media elements to expand the audience.
Japan also has a national and cultural problem with simply adapting to modernity, or post-modernity. Nearly no immigration, ethnic/gender equity and representation, and even things like a lack of credit card services (which makes local and global crowdfunding difficult) hold the country back, and their export media reflects this. At least things are looking up in a few areas for the anime industry, but that only goes so far.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
That and because it became a stereotype where Gamergate was primarily composed of people with "anime avatars."
There's definitely truth to it, but the same toxicity is present in the other sections of "geek culture"; gaming, comic book fandom. So I always find it kind of perplexing when one medium gets singled out like this.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
That's because your mainly only watching late night animation. If you spent your time watching late night cartoons you'd get an equally skewered view point. Most of the day time stuff barely gets talked about on communities like gaf.
Pretty much. All sorts of work spawns from it but for some reason haters ignore all the great stuff. Whatever. Can't change people.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I just wanted to make a brief reply to acknowledge similarities between this article and the resulting thread, and an article from 2015 about Otaku culture -- and I think if you read that thread and article, you'll see many of the same responses playing out predictably:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1144418
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1144418
Gai Murakumo
Member
Like any form of media there will always be toxic people and fanatics. Watching good well written anime will help you ease into anime if you are feeling skeptical about it. But it is up to you, everybody has their tastes and what they like or do not like. The authors article was interesting but he just seems like he forced himself to watch a medium he really has not interest in and make him seem he was better then those who watch it. Plus only making it through 2 episodes of Cowboy Bebop then saying it is boring? C'mon man!
Makoto Shinkai is a favorite of mine. I didn't even know who he was but I ended up at an anime con a few years ago because I have weebs for friends and I happened to see a panel that listed a handful of animes that I actually enjoyed; it was a panel about him.
True Savior
Member
lmao. How you get such title?
I'm in much the same place as the author. I hate all of the tropes and cliches that are associated with Anime and have never given it a chance. I recently decided to give it a chance despite this, and came to similar results as he did.
I watched Cowboy Bebop, Monster, One Punch Man, and a bit of Full Metal Alchemist (the good one). Unlike the author, I made it through all of Cowboy Bebop, but I totally agree with his opinion--it's not a very good show. There are moments of brilliance but the characters are uninteresting and whenever they tried to flesh them out I started to get bored. It also tried too hard to feel meaningful--whenever it tried to express a deeper truth I just felt it became "baby's first attempt at depth." Monster started OK, but after it finished setting up the conflict it decided to screech to a halt and spend an insane amount of episodes padding out the rest of the story, so I dropped it then and there. One Punch Man was good for the most part, but it was also quite short. I couldn't even make it a full episode into FMA.
I watched Cowboy Bebop, Monster, One Punch Man, and a bit of Full Metal Alchemist (the good one). Unlike the author, I made it through all of Cowboy Bebop, but I totally agree with his opinion--it's not a very good show. There are moments of brilliance but the characters are uninteresting and whenever they tried to flesh them out I started to get bored. It also tried too hard to feel meaningful--whenever it tried to express a deeper truth I just felt it became "baby's first attempt at depth." Monster started OK, but after it finished setting up the conflict it decided to screech to a halt and spend an insane amount of episodes padding out the rest of the story, so I dropped it then and there. One Punch Man was good for the most part, but it was also quite short. I couldn't even make it a full episode into FMA.
Master Of Illusion
Member
I mean unless you grew up with it, it is very, very hard to get anyone into anime later in life.
patrickthehedgehog
Member
I'd rather do almost anything else than waste my time tying to convert an anime hater.
You have to discover it on your own. I feel sorry for you if you've never been impressed by the animation style, designs, or story in anime. Just like every other form of media there's some garbage, but when you have a good studio and a creative staff some of the most impressive works of animation are created.
You have to discover it on your own. I feel sorry for you if you've never been impressed by the animation style, designs, or story in anime. Just like every other form of media there's some garbage, but when you have a good studio and a creative staff some of the most impressive works of animation are created.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
Okay... thanks?
And to all those people just writing something along the lines of anime being a medium, I'm pretty sure that might be a good indicator that you didn't read the article.
Very interesting.
LumpOfCole
Member
If Bill Burr can warm up to One Punch Man, anyone can. Unfortunately, for every series like One Punch Man, there are 20-30 series with a focus on panty shots, beach episodes, and tie-in waifu pillow merchandise. As a whole, anime has earned its stigma over the past 15 years. The exceptions have to be defended as such, but at least there are exceptions.
No, I read the whole article. Even noted that part. The author just forgets that he wrote that line as soon as he gets to the next paragraph.
I actually hated cartoons - anything animated from Bambi to Batman - up until I was around twenty and I started watching Bakemonogatari at a friend's house. I am of the opinion that it isn't that hard if you aren't terrified of someone peeking in your window and telling the whole neighborhood that you watched a few bad anime series while sifting through the filthy masses for gems.