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[Theodoricos]

This is not true at all, there's countless of different stories, worlds, characters within the medium. This is so weird.

No, it's not.

When compared to the vast and diverse world of literature, cinema, television and animation as a whole, anime in particular is rather limited. It's perfectly reasonable not to be into it in general while still liking some particular titles.

 

[Haly]

If there's one thing I appreciate anime for it's the range of visual direction.

No one would ever make Shinbo/Oishi's Bakemonogatari in the western world. Or Ikuhara's Utena.

 

[nitewulf]

I can't really stand most of it...it just doesn't jive with my adult persona I guess. But I enjoyed 'One Punch Man' immensely, and do like the action animes from 80's and 90's and stuff like Galaxy Express 999 from the 70's. All of that stuff were creative and magical, and the animation quality itself was very high.

 

[NHarmonic.]

No, it's not.

When compared to the vast and diverse world of literature, cinema, television and animation as a whole, anime in particular is rather limited. It's perfectly reasonable not to be into it in general while still liking some particular titles.

Mmm could it be, maybe maybe, because it's relatively new? You've had how many centuries of literature?

Still don't agree, there's a lot of stuff in this medium. These arguments are just made to dismiss it as a whole because one day you saw a bad harem series or slice of life, or some loli shit. I've avoided that stuff like the plague and there's still lots to watch.

 

[Zaru]

No, it's not.

When compared to the vast and diverse world of literature, cinema, television and animation as a whole, anime in particular is rather limited. It's perfectly reasonable not to be into it in general while still liking some particular titles.

In terms of how many titles you consume because they pass your quality/interest threshold compared to how many are released, I doubt anime is much different from other distinct media.
Someone doesn't watch, say, 99% of anime, and says that they're not into anime.
They also probably don't read the vast majority of books, watch the vast majority of films or follow the vast majority of shows on tv. Would that not also mean that they're not into those things by that standard?

The difference is that it's physically possible to watch all currently releasing anime.

 

[./revy]

No, it's not.

When compared to the vast and diverse world of literature, cinema, television and animation as a whole, anime in particular is rather limited. It's perfectly reasonable not to be into it in general while still liking some particular titles.

Aww yeah, the crazy diversity of the Western animation scene. So many different and varied styles. The mass breakout of near non-stop superhero films over the last decade in cinema. The vast troves of amazing literature released in the last decade... what was the last explosive novel? The Hunger Games? Of all those, only western television is having its Golden Moment right now following the cultural shift brought about by the Sopranos, the Wire, and recently Breaking Bad. Everything else has been fairly stagnant with a few exceptional, but not exceedingly so, works.

I don't think anime is far off from the boom Western television has been in. If you are comparing recent years, the diversity of anime is fairly strong. You have the various sports anime - most of which have been increasingly pushing the bar for character-based story while focusing on interesting sports (volleyball, shogi, competitive dance) - followed by series that range from mundane high schools to futuristic dystopias. You have cultural critiques like Shin Sekai Yori, you have the French nouveau-inspired Monogatari series, you have animated series like Made in Abyss that feature movie-grade production values. Original series like Re:Creators which, despite fatal flaws, at least tried to touch on themes that haven't ever been mentioned in Western television. Things like the relationship between creator and created, immortality through art, and the relationship between audience and media.

Going back through time you can see by interviews and simply watching how some of the greatest works of cinema in recent years were inspired by anime series like Akira and Perfect Blue. You have Ezra Koenig's Neo Yokio - the first anime of its kind in years. You have Oshii's militaristic neo-noir visions in Ghost in the Shell and Jin-Roh followed by recent titans of the industry - Shinkai and Hosoda who have each made some of the most heart-wrenching stories in recent cinematic history. Obviously when you start comparing Tolstoy and Nobakov to anime the whole thing starts looking like child's play, but when you compare anything to the great classicists that happens.

So when I say you're coming from a point of ignorance, I don't mean it as an insult. I just mean there are quality things out there that the anime fans who cite, "Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece" as the defining anime of the generation are missing out on as well.

 

[Haly]

As a nitpick, I wouldn't call "The Wire", "Breaking Bad" and "The Sopranos" diverse. High quality, sure, perhaps strictly better than almost all anime released in that time frame, but they're all grounded character dramas based on organized crime in America. Snooze. Without the backing of strong direction, casting, and the culture zeitgeist behind them, I couldn't give two shits about organized crime dramas.

If I had to make my case for diverse TV in recent years, it'd be Hannibal, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, Treme and Transparent.

 

[./revy]

As a nitpick, I wouldn't call "The Wire", "Breaking Bad" and "The Sopranos" as "diverse". High quality, sure, perhaps strictly better than almost all anime released in that time frame, but they're all grounded character dramas based on organized crime in America. Snooze. Without the backing of strong direction, casting, and the culture zeitgeist behind them, I couldn't give two shits about organized crime dramas.

If I had to make my case for diverse TV in recent years, it'd be Hannibal, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, Treme and Transparent.

Perhaps not "diverse" in setting, but vastly different in their moral themes and tonality from anything that came before them. The Sopranos is directly cited by tons of television directors as the catalyst that brought them away from traditional cinema.

Just watch Every Frame A Painting's Wolf Children video or his Satoshi Kon video. And while these are standout films, the new blood in the animation scene in Japan are inspired by these revolutionaries. Animation from things like Re:Zero, released last year, push scenes that are absurd when you think about them being essentially hand-drawn.

 

[Rumblebones]

There are tons of shows like this. Mad Men, The Wire, The Sopranos, etc. Not too mention I'm not sure what falling asleep during Blade Runner has to do with anything other than you needing more sleep or to drink a coffee before starting a movie.

And as far as Cowboy Bebop its the perfect gateway anime for Western viewers because it avoids the good majority of major anime tropes and appeals to Western sensibilities whether its the music, the story telling, the noir/scifi atmosphere, and so on. Its in my opinion one of the easiest animes to get in new or unfamiliar viewers.

I haven't seen Mad Men so I can't comment on it. The Sopranos definitely isn't slow, I don't know where you got that idea, but The Wire is a good example, and it kind of proves my point because it struggled to maintain ratings because, quality notwithstanding, it was difficult for viewers to engage with it.

Blade Runner is very similar to Cowboy Bebop. They're both high quality works that are thematically similar, and they both suffer from being slow. If anyone were to ask me for a great introduction film to scifi films, Blade Runner would not be the film I suggested, despite it being one of the greatest scifis ever made for the same reasons I wouldn't recommend Cowboy Bebop, which is one of the best anime ever made, but not as widely appealing.

Tropes aren't inherently bad by the way. FMA is quite trope-y but it's still a great series that tells a compelling story that is easily understood with plenty of action and doesn't overstay its welcome. It's easily a much better introduction to the medium because whoever watches FMA as their first anime will see it done right and won't experience too much "culture shock" so to speak going forward.

 

[killer rin]

Um. There's slightly more to it than that.

I enjoy some anime but for every one show I find enjoyable, excellent even, there are at least 40 which are complete trope-ridden agony to watch. A lot of the time these tropes even bleed into decent shows.

There's bad stuff in every medium but I find the ratio in anime just shocking, honestly.

Its not just anime though. You say that the ratio is 40:1 for Bad Anime:Good Anime, and you are right. But its the exact same ratios for every medium.

Most games are shit. Reality TV is shit. Cop shows are shit. Scifi/Fantasy TV tends to be shitty or underwhelming. There are many shitty books out there. Music has unbearable tracks. Dont even get started on the movie industry. Entertainment in general is piles upon piles of utter crap that the entire industry has reigned to throwing against the wall in hopes that something sticks and ends up being an actual half decent product. It's why everybody says "X medium was better in the past". Because all the shitty stuff was buried and forgotten about. Compared this to us currently being in the moment and having to sift through the shit to find the gems that wont be forgotten. Recent experience tells us "Everything sucks" but 10 years from now if you google say "Best anime 2010-2020" you'll only get the absolute best of the best anime from our period with all the terrible stuff forgotten entirely. And the same example holds true for every medium.

 

[WaterAstro]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

Cowboy Bebop is the most boring anime though, and I watched it a second time just to make sure my assessment was correct.

 

[BlackDoomShadow]

I was kind of hoping someone would address or counterpoint my comment about female characters, but I guess this remains a major blind spot for fans.

 

[TissueBox]

Just tell them to watch Kino's Journey or Haibane Renmei.

Oohh Kino nice.

Here are my personal anime recs for the newcomer, hater, and in-too-deeps alike. ^^'

Princess Mononoke (for the mature Miyazaki's)

Welcome to the N.H.K. (for the self-loathers)

The Boy and the Beast (for the Disney's)

Planetes (for the primetimes)

Grave of the Fireflies (for the neo-realists)

Gankutsuou: Count of Monte Cristo (for the soapers and hybrid lovers)

Metropolis (for the aesthetes)

La Maison en Petits Cubes (for the sentimental-privy, and still-not-a-fan-so-maybe-something-tangential-that-only-somewhat-counts circle)

Shirobako (for medium-about-medium curiosos -- maybe out of place but too-hoo bad it's here!!)

For a lot of aged anime newcomers in particular you're looking for something that's really not indicative of mainstream anime at all, or is anchored to something more stylistically detached from the typifications most anime fall into. Luckily there's plenty of anime out there like that, too, just swimming in a blue, wide-eyed sea. But suffice it to say, not everyone will get into anime, and anime/manga can foster many flavors of audience. Guilty pleasure for many indeed...

 

[King Gilga]

This thread does is a perfect example of ehy anime is to be avoided.

The fans are the literal definitions of obnoxious and oblivious

Besides a few choice movies you're not missing much anyways.

 

[snap]

This thread does is a perfect example of ehy anime is to be avoided.

The fans are the literal definitions of obnoxious and oblivious

Besides a few choice movies you're not missing much anyways.

the first few posts shitting on the author for not liking cowboy bebop is a pretty accurate microcosm of anime fandom

 

[Theodoricos]

*snip*

I'm not talking about long 100+ episode series such as Naruto or One Piece, similarly to how I don't think of The Bold and the Beautiful or Days of Our Lives when I think of western television. Those kinds of shows, whether anime or live action, have zero artistic merit and zero respect for people's time.

I say this as someone who has watched both the old classics and some of the newer highlights, including most of the examples you've listed such as the first few entries of the Monogatari series, From The New World and Ghost in the Shell. I've already mentioned in my previous post that there are exceptions, mostly when it comes to movies - anything by Makoto Shinkai, Mamoru Hosoda, Satoshi Kon and Studio Ghibli is worthwhile. Also a lot of the examples posted by TissueBox - Welcome to the NHK!, Princess Mononoke and Shirobako are fantastic.

But these are the exceptions, not the rule. Most anime that is widely considered to be great still includes distinctly anime tropes and archetypes and you cannot deny this. I'm not talking about the general premise or the genres of anime - of those you can find plenty - but the execution, particularly when it comes to characterization and anime cliches. I'll agree with you on From The New World, but the fanservice-ridden Monogatari series is indefensible, dear lord. I haven't read the novels so I can't comment on those, but the Monogatari series, despite what it tries to do, is just another example of the many problems I have with anime. Ghost in the Shell in particular I'm not a fan of, but not because of any of my usual qualms with anime.

Of course if you only watch US blockbusters you'll mostly be getting superhero movies. Assuming that movies = superheroes nowadays is similarly ignorant. Hell, even when you look at American cinema alone there's so many good stuff coming out these last few years. You're mistaking "popular" for "quality". Just because The Hunger Games is popular doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Gnomepowered]

I think its a shame he didn't enjoy Spirited Away, but from a lot of the article it sounds like he is a somewhat self-described fuddy duddy. If I had known him enough to know that, I would have probably suggested Princess Mononoke as a Ghibli representative, just because it relies less on a somewhat healthy inner child than most of the others. Nausicaa and Castle in the Sky would have probably come off as too young adult-centric to him as well. I wonder if he would have liked Castle of Cagliostro, not that it's a very representative film.

The fact that he didn't like Cowboy Bebop makes it hard for me to figure what he WOULD like- I feel like that's one of the least anime anime series around, and one that is well calibrated to appeal to someone more familiar with Western media. I'm not sure I agree with the hatchet order suggested though- I think the show works best as a long series of vignettes. The backstory stuff is not that engaging, if you aren't already interested in the characters. That would involve having to get past episode 2 though, so I guess it wasn't a factor here. The first couple episodes ARE pretty slow though- although I think Episode 1, especially, is a pretty amazing noir stand alone. Remove the sci fi junk and it could easily be a Raymond Chandler story. Spike is generally channeling the sort of cynical world weariness that defines Philip Marlowe to me, albeit with a lot more kung fu.

I wonder if his inability to make time for a series is why no one suggested more classic series. A lot of 70s/80s anime is largely free of the sort of pandering fan service junk that turns people off, in addition to being foundational for the medium. I would have suggested Macross or Mobile Suit Gundam, or maybe Legend of Galactic Heroes, but if you can't force yourself through a few episodes of Cowboy Bebop, I doubt you can sit through that level of serialized length. Regardless, I don't think Bubblegum Crisis is a great intro point, and was sort of a wasted slot (nothing against the series, it just doesn't feel as essential as the other choices) . If he is that into sci fi dystopia,maybe Psycho Pass would have been a better recent series; although if you think Spike is too try hard....

 

[Htown]

the first few posts shitting on the author for not liking cowboy bebop is a pretty accurate microcosm of anime fandom

eh, i guess that's fair

kinda just in a bad mood today I guess

 

[Tarextherex]

Man even if the article ends on a somewhat positive note it's hard to take seriously when over 3/4 of it reads like a collection of GAF hot takes from the people that use anime as an adjective/parrot bad memes

It's not worth being that close minded to things just because some idiots like it. The alt right is irrelevant, that's like saying the matrix sucks because they ruined it with their red pill bullshit. If you're remotely interested by movies beyond your random action ones you ought to acknowledge anime. It proved itself as a worthy medium multiple times as many of its works were recognized by great directors/critics. Sadly a lot of anime fans are young weebs with no taste/bad opinions such as fmab being better than fma or logh being good so you'll have to do pretty extensive research to get worthy recs. Tbh those kinds of bad, close-minded opinions are pretty common in tv series/superhero movies/nolan fanboys. That's it, limiting yourself so much on freaking entertainment is beyond stupid

 

[Mass_Pincup]

This type of article is so interesting for me since I come from somewhere where anime and mangas are ubiquitous.

It's just a medium, if you're ashamed or have bias don't stress it and keep it moving.

You don't have to like everything.

the first few posts shitting on the author for not liking cowboy bebop is a pretty accurate microcosm of anime fandom

As if this doesn't happen in basically every popular thing from every medium.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I’m not liking those samples from the article you posted. Just trashing anime fans left and right and it’s a bad thing that it gave the socially awkward something to cling to? Yeah I was one of those and I found friends because of DBZ and naruto so wtf

 

[HStallion]

I haven't seen Mad Men so I can't comment on it. The Sopranos definitely isn't slow, I don't know where you got that idea, but The Wire is a good example, and it kind of proves my point because it struggled to maintain ratings because, quality notwithstanding, it was difficult for viewers to engage with it.

Blade Runner is very similar to Cowboy Bebop. They're both high quality works that are thematically similar, and they both suffer from being slow. If anyone were to ask me for a great introduction film to scifi films, Blade Runner would not be the film I suggested, despite it being one of the greatest scifis ever made for the same reasons I wouldn't recommend Cowboy Bebop, which is one of the best anime ever made, but not as widely appealing.

Tropes aren't inherently bad by the way. FMA is quite trope-y but it's still a great series that tells a compelling story that is easily understood with plenty of action and doesn't overstay its welcome. It's easily a much better introduction to the medium because whoever watches FMA as their first anime will see it done right and won't experience too much "culture shock" so to speak going forward.

The Soprano's is not what I'd call a fast paced show by any means and The Wire not being noticed on its original is for a variety of reasons and not just because of the nature of its pacing and style.

On top of that I'd not consider Blade Runner and Cowboy Bebop anything alike outside of being in the same basic genre and some small similarities here or there. Otherwise they're tonally very different things aiming for very different goals and going about that in very different ways.

Not too mention I'm still not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that Cowboy Bebop is one of the easiest sells to those not familiar with anime. If anything its so appealing to Western sensibilities that it might give someone a skewed expectation of future anime shows, the good majority of which are nothing at all like CB.

As to the tropes thing I never said they were bad. CB is full of tropes, but ones more familiar and easily digested by Western audiences. What it doesn't have is a lot of the more grating or alien tropes inherent to media from Japan, not just from anime, which can put off new viewers or those predisposed to not like such things.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

Japan simply has different tastes. Anime isn't made for you silly gaijins.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You can learn to like anime. If you have standards you will be dismissing 99% of them due to sexism and just general objectifying of women.

 

[EVOL 100%]

I'm sorry, but when almost the entire content of a medium can only be recommended with the caveat of 'yeah it's full of creepy perverted views toward women and a lot of dumb unnecessary violence but it's still good and worth your time I swear', I'm not watching.

I used to like anime mostly because I usually prefer Japanese art styles, but now I'm not touching anime with a ten foot pole.

I mean, I still like a lot of Ghilbi films and some serialized anime like Serial Experiments Lain, but there's such a disproportionate amount of shit that I just can't bother anymore.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

You can learn to like anime. If you have standards you will be dismissing 99% of them due to sexism and just general objectifying of women.

Geez just because I don’t believe in it as a lesson on respect for women doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy a program. DBZ has no real female characters but I enjoy it for the fighting and characters not because women don’t have a role

 

[Shadowhelper]

It can be incredibly difficult to enjoy anime. Something about the aesthetics, the way it flows, what seems to us crappy humor, and the annoying depictions of women, just makes them all obnoxious. I think the melodrama of anime is one of the things that is most off putting.

On paper, anime should be the greatest thing ever. Cartoons made out of Japanese comics. But there's just always something off about them. I want to like anime, but perhaps its earned its reputation for being a despicable genre reserved for pathetic people. I don't think the fans are pathetic, just commenting on the reputation.

Even heralded anime like Death Note and Attack of Titans I found to be really poor and not worthwhile at all.

 

[Firemind]

I think the melodrama of anime is one of the things that is most off putting.

lol

Even heralded anime like Death Note and Attack of Titans I found to be really poor and not worthwhile at all.

lol

 

[The Sum of Zero]

I see it like this.

If you don't like it, then you don't like it. No big.

If you like it, that's perfectly fine.

No one else's opinion matters. Only your own.

 

[Super Stardust]

Anime > Tv shows. I got a bunch of work friends who don’t watch anime to watch my hero academia and they absolutely love it, maybe watch that and see how you feel?

 

[Zoc]

Anime is a medium in the same way that, for example, Hollywood movies are a medium. Neither is really a medium, or a genre, they are local, culturally-specific versions of a medium with very specific expectations from the audience.

"I don't like anime" is a perfectly valid response from a Westerner not interested in climbing the huge cultural wall it would take to get into anime, just like "I don't like Hollywood movies" would be a valid response from, say, an Indian villager or a Tibetan monk not interested in the effort it would take to look past the many ridiculous cliches in 99% of Hollywood movies.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I find it odd and disturbing to single out a specific countries output in a medium. You dont like foreign things. Fine. Move on.

Not liking anime =/=not liking foreign things, like, remotely.

Anime > Tv shows. I got a bunch of work friends who don't watch anime to watch my hero academia and they absolutely love it, maybe watch that and see how you feel?

There is not a single recent anime that pulls off tension as well as GoT, BB, The Wire, etc. and that's not even getting into production quality, general writing quality, and ESPECIALLY acting quality. Come on now. Tv show quality is currently going through a renaissance.

 

[Glass Shark]

Every single thing about anime puts me off. Can't see me turning around anytime soon.

Same here. I know it’s not logical. I can’t fully explain my own feelings. But ever since I stopped watching DBZ as a kid, everything about anime turns me off instantly.

 

[Shadowhelper]

I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare the best of what TV has to offer to anime. The absolutely incredible, blockbuster and also niche TV that we get.

Versus anime that is created to appeal mostly to teenaged boys? Anime follows conventions far more than tv does now. American and British TV has so much money and viewership, of course the quality is through the roof. TV content at the moment is almost beyond good. Almost no one even disputes that. Its incredible.

Anime on the otherhand, we need to still discuss how much merit the genre even has. Sure, the odd Miyazaki movie is cool. But there does seem to be something fundamentally diseased about this genre. It's conventions of how it portrays women and how they are treated and the themes it deals with are some of the more obvious things. The aesthetics and artwork can also veer off into becoming hideous and annoying. Comparing the medium of tv to anime is like comparing a bed of roses to a pile of shit.

Even among the most progressive critics, and foreign cinema purveyors anime consistently repulses and annoys these people. Obviously people who normally love Japanese cinema have an open mind, so the shockingly consistent belief that anime is worthless and its fans deserve mockery, is hard to deny.

 

[Erheller]

Oohh Kino nice.

Here are my personal anime recs for the newcomer, hater, and in-too-deeps alike. ^^'

Princess Mononoke (for the mature Miyazaki's)

Welcome to the N.H.K. (for the self-loathers)

The Boy and the Beast (for the Disney's)

Planetes (for the primetimes)

Grave of the Fireflies (for the neo-realists)

Gankutsuou: Count of Monte Cristo (for the soapers and hybrid lovers)

Metropolis (for the aesthetes)

La Maison en Petits Cubes (for the sentimental-privy, and still-not-a-fan-so-maybe-something-tangential-that-only-somewhat-counts circle)

Shirobako (for medium-about-medium curiosos -- maybe out of place but too-hoo bad it's here!!)

For a lot of aged anime newcomers in particular you're looking for something that's really not indicative of mainstream anime at all, or is anchored to something more stylistically detached from the typifications most anime fall into. Luckily there's plenty of anime out there like that, too, just swimming in a blue, wide-eyed sea. But suffice it to say, not everyone will get into anime, and anime/manga can foster many flavors of audience. Guilty pleasure for many indeed...

Thanks for this. I've seen everything on this list except for Count of Monte Cristo, Metropolis, and La Maison en Petits Cubes, and they were all fantastic. I'll definitely be looking at the three I haven't seen.

 

[Trojita]

Absolutely not.

Anime is a sin and should never have existed.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I can sympathize with the author, but really I found you just need a really, really fine net to sift away a lot of more tropey shonen or moe shows.

Admittedly there are some near-universal cliches that still put me off.

 

[sans_pants]

I don't watch much anime but there is so much near masterpiece level work that writing it all off just tells me I don't need to value your opinion on art

 

[Quasar]

Well despite a childhood that included some anime I was a anime and manga skeptic until a few years ago. I gave it another chance when streaming was available and I was trying to escape the glut of supers media.

It won me over, mostly I guess due to the variety.

 

[Zzzonked]

I liked stuff like DBZ, Zoids and Pokemon when I was a kid, but these days anything anime makes me cringe. I'm sure there's good stuff out there but the stuff I see out and about or on video game sites just doesnt do it for me. Maybe if I was still a young teen.

 

[Makai]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

It's just like him flying in his spaceship with his jazz playlist.

 

[snap]

As if this doesn't happen in basically every popular thing from every medium.

depends on the fandom. only the more volatile and "devoted" ones directly insult people who otherwise wouldn't get into that hobby giving that hobby a try, even if it results in them not enjoying it in the way those in the fandom do.

 

[sans_pants]

btw folks what are the best scifi anime out there? movies or tv

i love akira, ghost in the shell, bebop (future boy conan if that counts) but I've probably missed a lot of the movies and haven't seen much of the shows

 

[Ratrat]

Not liking anime =/=not liking foreign things, like, remotely.


There is not a single recent anime that pulls off tension as well as GoT, BB, The Wire, etc. and that's not even getting into production quality, general writing quality, and ESPECIALLY acting quality. Come on now. Tv show quality is currently going through a renaissance.

Heh. GoT the show is pretty anime. Not the good kind.　There is bad acting, bad writing, bad handling of sexual themes and general stupidity for everyone!

btw folks what are the best scifi anime out there? movies or tv

i love akira, ghost in the shell, bebop (future boy conan if that counts) but I've probably missed a lot of the movies and haven't seen much of the shows

Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

 

[Big One]

Some demographics (heterosexual male otaku, many with pedophilic tendencies) get served far more than others (women, non-Japanese viewers (for obvious reasons), etc.).

The medium has a stigma for a reason. Doesn't make sense to me to deny that. There are certainly gems that help offset that, but there's no washing off the stench.

Yeah but there's literally hundreds of products in every demographic if you know where to look. Yes otaku pandering is a real thing but there's also hundreds of anime that doesn't pander to otaku as well. There's literally enough series without otaku pandering to last you a lifetime.

 

[Haly]

btw folks what are the best scifi anime out there? movies or tv

i love akira, ghost in the shell, bebop (future boy conan if that counts) but I've probably missed a lot of the movies and haven't seen much of the shows

Planetes, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Serial Experiments Lain, Dennou Coil, Banner/Crest of the Stars, Texhnolyze, Eve no Jikan, Wings of Honneamise, Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket, Kaiba

 

[./revy]

Of course if you only watch US blockbusters you'll mostly be getting superhero movies. Assuming that movies = superheroes nowadays is similarly ignorant. Hell, even when you look at American cinema alone there's so many good stuff coming out these last few years. You're mistaking "popular" for "quality". Just because The Hunger Games is popular doesn't mean it's good.

Wait, so are we debating quality or diversity? Because I'm debating the later on the assumption that was what the quoted posts were about and not strictly the former (i.e; Re:Creators, a show that was not good but something very different or Monogatari, a series whose closest non-French comparison would be something like David Lynch's work). Diversity among popular releases, because if we start moving away from blockbuster's in American film and into the more niche and interesting indie releases then I don't know why we can't begin counting indie anime which opens up its own discussion.

There is not a single recent anime that pulls off tension as well as GoT, BB, The Wire, etc. and that's not even getting into production quality, general writing quality, and ESPECIALLY acting quality. Come on now. Tv show quality is currently going through a renaissance.

How are you going to compare acting quality between animation and live-action? I thought you were an animator, last time I checked. Are you comparing the voice acting or taking into account the second degree of acting, the animation itself? Seems like something you would be aware of unless you were maybe arguing from a point of bias rather than any objective thought.

To answer your question, there definitely are anime that can compete. Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu is an anime about the traditional Japanese stage acting known as Rakugo. The story focuses on the characters numerous connections to the art and their attempts to both gain their own popularity and maintain their image of where the future of the art should go. There is no doubt in my mind that it stands toe-to-toe with recent television titans. Something, that 99% of Western television doesn't do either, notably.

 

[HStallion]

Heh. GoT the show is pretty anime. Not the good kind.

Jamie brushing Cersei's teeth was what gave it away.

 

[XAL]

this dude made it two episodes into Bebop and decided it was boring

what horrible fucking taste

Yeah, "branding problem".

This guy has bad taste and the attention span of a gnat.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Well despite a childhood that included some anime I was a anime and manga skeptic until a few years ago. I gave it another chance when streaming was available and I was trying to escape the glut of supers media.

It won me over, mostly I guess due to the variety.

Variety is definitely a huge strength of anime. So many genres are represented and represented well.