Imperial Bishop
Banned
People really get worked up over cartoons from another country.
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Can a lifelong anime skeptic learn to love it?
- Thread starter Dr_LucienSanchez
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Gentleman Jack
Member
Ah the days of Carl Macek translations.
People get worked up when they say "people who like thing are bad". It's some Skub/anti-skub shit.
Like, the anime is for jerks meme is one thing but doing 500 words on how anime fans are white supremacists is a little much.
PaulBizkit
Member
Liking anime doesn't imply BE AN OTAKU! ANIME AND NOTHING ELSE!!
Start with:
- Cowboy Bebop
- Death Note
If you like them:
- Samurai Champloo
If you haven't given up:
- Gurren Lagann
Those shows are good and varied. Not every anime is action sci fi with little girls
Start with:
- Cowboy Bebop
- Death Note
If you like them:
- Samurai Champloo
If you haven't given up:
- Gurren Lagann
Those shows are good and varied. Not every anime is action sci fi with little girls
Bebop is better than the vast majority of anything, anywhere. Two episodes dude? Really?
Wish he went into things that are totally different from what's popular out West but are still great, like Tatami Galaxy.
EDIT: And I always find it surprising how people really think that anime is just some weird, specific niche of off-putting shit. Do you hate movies too?
Wish he went into things that are totally different from what's popular out West but are still great, like Tatami Galaxy.
EDIT: And I always find it surprising how people really think that anime is just some weird, specific niche of off-putting shit. Do you hate movies too?
Fancyarcher
Member
If you don't like anime, then you may as well not like it at all. Anime's not for everything of course. I love Studio Ghibli and the likes, but I know plenty of people who are freaked out or don't get it. Same with any of the shows I watch.
I love Cowboy Bebop, but it enforces a lot of the classic anime tropes, so I could understand why someone wouldn't care for it. Still giving up on it after two episodes, seems awfully premature I might add.
Yup, it's incredibly varied too. Going to anime club in high school and college was such a treat, just because of the variety of shows I watched. Some anime is very short too, and shouldn't be that hard to get into.
I love Cowboy Bebop, but it enforces a lot of the classic anime tropes, so I could understand why someone wouldn't care for it. Still giving up on it after two episodes, seems awfully premature I might add.
Yup, it's incredibly varied too. Going to anime club in high school and college was such a treat, just because of the variety of shows I watched. Some anime is very short too, and shouldn't be that hard to get into.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Anime has such variety that this kind statement means you don't care much to see it all.. which I understand in a way. It's like saying I don't like movies because you've seen a bunch of comedy movies and hate the medium.
Which is why the article from the person who wrote is terrible.. and not just because he quit 2 episodes after watching Bebop
Right. And then spends multiple paragraphs talking about how shitty the Anime Avatar Brigade is, before talking about how he's going to give anime a chance anyway, and then dismisses Bebop because he thinks it appeals to the douchebags he said he was going to ignore.
Don't get me wrong, there's a hell of a lot of shitty anime out there, and basically everything involving anime fandom or "culture" is a humongous dumpster fire, but don't come out with a self-congratulatory article about how magnanimous you are for lowering yourself down to the masses and giving it the old college try, when you're just going to bail out for the flimsiest of reasons.
GreenMonkey
Member
Anime is just a style of animation.
You can tell stories of any sort with anime that are much cheaper than a live-action production. And they do that in Japan.
I particularly like sci-fi / fantasy because we don't get a lot of it in TV/movies, at least not that much that isn't kid stuff.
Berserk is nothing like Cowboy Bebop which is nothing like Crest of the Stars. (a few of my favorites). And Miyazaki isn't like anything else.
That said, I don't watch a whole lot these days - probably because we started getting more decent sci-fi and fantasy on TV (like Game of Thrones).
There is a lot of it that is hung up on stupid fan service and overused tropes. But you could say that about some movies and TV and comic books also.
You can tell stories of any sort with anime that are much cheaper than a live-action production. And they do that in Japan.
I particularly like sci-fi / fantasy because we don't get a lot of it in TV/movies, at least not that much that isn't kid stuff.
Berserk is nothing like Cowboy Bebop which is nothing like Crest of the Stars. (a few of my favorites). And Miyazaki isn't like anything else.
That said, I don't watch a whole lot these days - probably because we started getting more decent sci-fi and fantasy on TV (like Game of Thrones).
There is a lot of it that is hung up on stupid fan service and overused tropes. But you could say that about some movies and TV and comic books also.
Rumblebones
Banned
Blade Runner is a great film.
It put me to sleep eight times before I could sit through it all in one sitting, but it's a great film.
Could you name a few shows you have in mind? The only one that comes to my mind is Breaking Bad, but that was violent and about drugs and not quite as thematically subtle as Bebop.
There is going to be an overlap with some people that simply can't take anime seriously because it's animated, but as a life long fan I have my reasons for not choosing Bebop as a great gateway anime.
michaelius
Banned
Sure I used to hate anime as a kid and made a fun of my friend who watched stuff like Sailor Moon in primary school but then when I hit university I was huge tabletop gamer (wfb, wh40k) during one of tournaments which happened to be a part of bigger conversion I was hanging out with friends (read: drinking) and we ended watching half the season of Berserk. It made me realise that there's more to anime than magical girls and yattamans
I wasn't actively watching it but it made me more open minded so when few years later during my Mechwarrior fascination my friend wanted to show me Gundam I ended watching and I liked it to the point where I've seen 24 episodes of Seed in single session and after that everything else with mecha that fallen into my hands. From that I branched into other genres later.
But to this day I prefer stuff with darker/more serious themes than pure comedy and slice of life harem stuff.
I wasn't actively watching it but it made me more open minded so when few years later during my Mechwarrior fascination my friend wanted to show me Gundam I ended watching and I liked it to the point where I've seen 24 episodes of Seed in single session and after that everything else with mecha that fallen into my hands. From that I branched into other genres later.
But to this day I prefer stuff with darker/more serious themes than pure comedy and slice of life harem stuff.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Same here.
I had to turn off avatars on GAF because I can't stand the thought of someone walking by my screen and seeing one of the 90317506580356305603 anime avatars on here and thinking I have any interest in it at all.
What "classic anime tropes" does Cowboy Bebop enforce? Maybe you could point to Radical Ed, but that's about it. Faye's fanservice is much more in the vein of classic Hollywood and the femme fatale tropes of film noir rather than anything specific to anime. In fact, Bebop's greater resemblance to more typical Hollywood genres and Western sensibilities than anything uniquely Japanese is what makes it such a viable gateway series.
BlackDoomShadow
Member
I binge-watched Cowboy Bebop with a friend a few years ago, as he had been insisting I watch an anime for a long time. I remember thinking it was alright overall, but I don't have many memories of it (the problem with binge-watching).
More recently I watched Your Name, which I really enjoyed. I might have liked it a lot because it was a movie and not a long-form show, and because it's relatively grounded in its premise and realistic in its characters.
If somebody has a recommendation along those lines, I might watch it.
More recently I watched Your Name, which I really enjoyed. I might have liked it a lot because it was a movie and not a long-form show, and because it's relatively grounded in its premise and realistic in its characters.
If somebody has a recommendation along those lines, I might watch it.
What? No. Anime is just cartoons made in Japan.
Holy Order Sol
Member
deal with content and avoid interaction with fandoms in general it's not that hard tbh
Any of Makoto Shinkai's other work, for starters. You might also want to try something from Satoshi Kon, maybe Tokyo Godfathers, which is significantly less heavy and psychological than some of his other stuff.
You might also dig Mamoru Hosoda's work, like The Girl Who Leapt Through Time or Summer Wars.
Ive always believed anime has gotten a bad wrap. From friends, family and colleagues always referring to it as cartoons and childish. While some anime deals with mature themes and far beyond anything a kids cartoon ever would I do see that there are a lot of anime aimed at kids and a lot of the anime that got big over here is aimed at kids; Pokemon, Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh to Name a few.
Im a big fan of anime movies. Films like 5cm Per Second, Wolf Children, Your Name, Garden of Words and others really strike home for me with their subject matter. Most Ghibli films seem to weave a darker mature theme in with more jovial tones to attract both parents and kids... I feel like a lot of people cant see past the jovial nature of some of the characters or plot lines though. Princess Mononoke is the film I always try to get people to watch, that or Spirited Away - both are mature and dont hold back... but again Ive heard I dont want to watch this baby shit and then they went and watched Transformers (the movies... the recent ones).
Clearly taste is an issue here, were all opinionated about our individual opinions but people seem less and less open to giving anime a chance. My favourite film in recent memory is Your Name, one of the most thought provoking, emotional, beautiful films Ive seen in years - and its an anime. I watch series like Gundam often and even though some of the series are dumbed down, others are dark and twisted and really push the bounds of things wed even see in live action - let alone what people call cartoons. Also... why had the term cartoon become so negative, or atleast used in such a negative way. There are some fantastic cartoons; from classics like The Simpsons, Futurama, Dexters Lab, Ed Edd & Eddy all the way to the dark humour and twisted world of Rick and Morty.
I say, dont write anime off because only weebs watch itor its for kids because its far more than youre letting on. Try a few different anime, dont just stick in on genre - dip your toes in different series and films and see what sticks and then follow that. Death Note was my initial entry way into the more adult anime, after been a die hard Digimon fan in my preteen era. Death Note led me to films such as Akira and other series like Cowboy Bebop and eventually onto Ghibli films which I adore.
Im a big fan of anime movies. Films like 5cm Per Second, Wolf Children, Your Name, Garden of Words and others really strike home for me with their subject matter. Most Ghibli films seem to weave a darker mature theme in with more jovial tones to attract both parents and kids... I feel like a lot of people cant see past the jovial nature of some of the characters or plot lines though. Princess Mononoke is the film I always try to get people to watch, that or Spirited Away - both are mature and dont hold back... but again Ive heard I dont want to watch this baby shit and then they went and watched Transformers (the movies... the recent ones).
Clearly taste is an issue here, were all opinionated about our individual opinions but people seem less and less open to giving anime a chance. My favourite film in recent memory is Your Name, one of the most thought provoking, emotional, beautiful films Ive seen in years - and its an anime. I watch series like Gundam often and even though some of the series are dumbed down, others are dark and twisted and really push the bounds of things wed even see in live action - let alone what people call cartoons. Also... why had the term cartoon become so negative, or atleast used in such a negative way. There are some fantastic cartoons; from classics like The Simpsons, Futurama, Dexters Lab, Ed Edd & Eddy all the way to the dark humour and twisted world of Rick and Morty.
I say, dont write anime off because only weebs watch itor its for kids because its far more than youre letting on. Try a few different anime, dont just stick in on genre - dip your toes in different series and films and see what sticks and then follow that. Death Note was my initial entry way into the more adult anime, after been a die hard Digimon fan in my preteen era. Death Note led me to films such as Akira and other series like Cowboy Bebop and eventually onto Ghibli films which I adore.
GreenMonkey
Member
Depends on what kinds of movies and TV and such that you like.
Miyazaki is always a little easy suggestion for almost anyone (Spirited Away, Totoro, etc).
If you like mind fuck type indie movies (Momento, Primer come to mind), I'd say Serial Experiments Lain or Perfect Blue.
If you like a fairly straightforward strong narrative, I'd say something like Fullmetal Alchemist or Scrapped Princess.
If you like seeing some people fall into darkness and others do the opposite (Breaking Bad, Babylon 5, maybe Game of Thrones) and like people with swords, I'd say Berserk.
Speaking of Primer (which most people have not seen), if you like time travel stuff you might like Stein's Gate.
It depends on what you like. Saying suggest me an anime is like saying suggest me a TV show. That's an awfully big space.
I don't know, my guy. I was hit by some severe depression after watching Tokyo Godfathers and realizing how fucked our lives could be before we can even begin to speak.
Right? Turning off avatars also helps hide the fact that you self-identify as a long-haired, bandana-wearing male with poor fashion sense who seemingly works in the service industry.
There are anime of all kinds with all kinds of viewpoints, just like live action movies. Anime is not just for weirdos and the alt right. Something like Utena cannot really be enjoyed at all by that kind of crowd for example, its entire message is one of feminism. There are some that are crap and some with a lot of artistic merit, just like movies.
Anime is a medium not a genre, just like movies are. I understand people saying certain anime genres arent for them, but to see only a few bad ones and declare all anime bad is beyond stupid. Thats like seeing Transformers and Shrek and proclaiming that all movies must be bad. Or playing a fighting game, not liking it, then saying all games must be bad. No fool, you just dont like that one type of game, try an rpg!
Anime is a medium not a genre, just like movies are. I understand people saying certain anime genres arent for them, but to see only a few bad ones and declare all anime bad is beyond stupid. Thats like seeing Transformers and Shrek and proclaiming that all movies must be bad. Or playing a fighting game, not liking it, then saying all games must be bad. No fool, you just dont like that one type of game, try an rpg!
Principate
Saint Titanfall
The shounens are funnily enough the least likely to have those panty shots and usual otak pandering anime is known for. That's because they're normally aired in the middle of the day for a mainstream audience.
Problem with that is that the majority of daytime shows are series aimed specifically at children, which is a problem in and of itself (recommending them can be construed as a way of saying "your tastes are childish and not worth catering to as an adult"). The overlap between anime that plays during daytime slots and anime that aims at adult audiences is basically nonexistent. The vast, vast majority of adult-oriented shows are not Yuri on Ice, I can say that much.
I feel like I've grown up and anime has failed to grow up with me. I can no longer stomach all the idiotic shoehorned-in fan service, the vapid character writing, and the both implied and overt sexism that's almost ubiquitous in the medium. I still watch a bunch of stuff, but at least some of that is out of some sense of obligation. I want to give them a chance to "wow" me, even though I'm clearly not a member of their target audience. Even then, I filter out a bunch of stuff on premise alone, and disappointment is frequent.
I just can't be arsed to defend the medium at this point, even as someone who could be described as a "lifelong fan". It's got its upsides, but even Sturgeon's Law can't explain the vast amount of terrible, terrible shit in it. It's just that the bad parts are even worse than the usual shit, and it honestly hurts just to be associated with that crap.
Cheesyhobo
Member
Anime is a young people's medium. I would speculate that the author of the article will never "love" anime, at most he might give it grudging respect after viewing a very small selection of shows with adult subject matter like Monster/Mononoke/*namedrop one of a few dozen prestige anime here*.
I feel like anime is really underappreciated as a medium in terms of what it can do with visual storytelling, but as visually inventive as FLCL and Hyouka are, they're probably not going to appeal to someone who is long past coming-of-age angst.
I feel like anime is really underappreciated as a medium in terms of what it can do with visual storytelling, but as visually inventive as FLCL and Hyouka are, they're probably not going to appeal to someone who is long past coming-of-age angst.
There are tons of shows like this. Mad Men, The Wire, The Sopranos, etc. Not too mention I'm not sure what falling asleep during Blade Runner has to do with anything other than you needing more sleep or to drink a coffee before starting a movie.
And as far as Cowboy Bebop its the perfect gateway anime for Western viewers because it avoids the good majority of major anime tropes and appeals to Western sensibilities whether its the music, the story telling, the noir/scifi atmosphere, and so on. Its in my opinion one of the easiest animes to get in new or unfamiliar viewers.
It's part of animation, which is a medium. It's shorthand for the work of the medium of animation that comes out of Japan.
People refer to it a medium mostly to seperate it from a genre which it certainly is not. However it leads to some wonky comparisons at times, like the article comparing it to magazines.
No, not liking anime is not the same as not liking magazines. It'd be similar to not liking Japanese magazines even if they were wider in scale and scope than American ones. More than likely anime (or if we're still going with Japanese magazines as an anology) likely have tropes and cultural tie in that you're not a fan of and therefore can't enjoy the majority of the output.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Most Comic book media junk have the exact same audience demographic aims. Teenagers and families. Which is what the shounen demographic is 13+. That's the meal ticket demographic for media as fare as mainstream success is concerned. It's Shounen manga like One Piece are demographically most popular amongst adults (40+).
The late night anime which aims at older teens and are usually seiner are more equivalent to CW trash.
You won't see many anime aimed at at 30-40+ demographics because like in the west that age group tends to be more interested in live action.
If your looking for more adult orientated works look at manga. There's literally thousands of such works. They tend not to be adapted to anime because it's not economically viable.
BlackDoomShadow
Member
This is an important point, I think, and it's one that gets anime fans extremely defensive in the same way that other fandoms get defensive when somebody uses one of the dreaded "-ism" words -- they think they're being called bigots for enjoying something. That's not the case, but it's still important to have a conversation about the fact that anime is produced by a country that is still very different from the Western world in its gender norms and attitudes.
For me personally, I enjoy watching films and shows that feature strong female protagonists (or major supporting roles), a phrase that has been warped by male fandom to mean "kicks a lot of ass" but actually refers to women who are three-dimensional, multifaceted characters with realistic thoughts, feelings, and goals outside of just wanting to fuck a guy.
While I'm aware that there's a lot of anime with female protagonists or major supporting characters (even proportionally more than Western media), I still have trouble with these characters. Many of them are younger girls or teenagers which, as an adult, I'm not particularly interested in watching -- I would prefer adult characters, or at least older teenagers, with relatable problems. But it feels like a lot of anime (and Japanese video games) are in a sort of holding pattern, refusing to evolve with the times.
This sounds ominous.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Maybe in the US. In Japan Anime is just cartoons.
Some of the most culturally iconic anime in Japan is for kids. Growing up, some of what I watched was; Doraemon, Chibi Maruko Chan, Shin Chan, Sazae San, Inuyasha, Kochikame, Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin, Pokemon, Dragon Ball, Anpanman, Slam Dunk, Nintama Rantaro, Gundam, Nippon Mukashi-banashi, and so on. I can't even list them all off the top of my head there were so many. It would be hard to find a Japanese person who hasn't at least heard of these, and none of them have a weird stigma attached to them.
When I moved back to the US, most of the American Anime fans were watching shit I had never heard of.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Why would you even want to. Like, it's okay to not like something.
I mean, spoilers: He doesn't want to and does not.
Strangelove77
Member
Like country music and reggaeton, it's ok to not like anime. It's trash and their fans are off putting.
The article actually made me think of your brief foray into the anime community thread. And not in a bad way; just that a lot of anime watchers take for granted the repetitive narrative or storytelling tropes that make up a lot of the medium's content. I remember how tough it was to think of good recommendations for you.
There's nothing wrong with having preferences, and similarly there's nothing wrong with recognizing that while there may be some anime that cater to those preferences, the vast majority of the medium doesn't, for various reasons. As long as people are self-aware enough to realize the difference between stuff they don't care about and stuff that's bad (and plenty of anime is bad, for various reasons), then everything's cool. So basically, I don't really have a problem with this article.
Hopefully this thread doesn't turn into a thousand-post discussion of fanservice.
themaskedndi
Member
I wouldn't even say that. There's a specific look associated with anime, sure, but Japanese cartoons offer more variety than people give them credit for. Here are some gifs from a few of my favorite shows:
OrlanisWorks
Banned
Forgiven for getting bored of Bebop.
I think he's gonna be pretty happy if he checks those out. Those are great movies and it makes me fucking angry that I can't legitimately get blu-ray or even DVD copies of them in the US.
I'm glad he didn't try Steins;Gate. He probably would've gotten bored even faster than he did with Bebop. My favorite anime, but I can understand anyone getting bored of it.
Anime Fans Are (Not) Supremacists
NHarmonic.
Member
This is not true at all, there's countless of different stories, worlds, characters within the medium. This is so weird.
cheermancy
Member
I think the first time I tried Bebop several years ago I got bored about 5 or 6 episodes in. I tried again in the past few months and it has become one of my favorite anime of all time.
I can see why some people might find it boring, but it's completely worth finishing in the end.
I can see why some people might find it boring, but it's completely worth finishing in the end.