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[WhiskeyKnight]

Dude, chill out and thake a breath.

This is what everyone is talking about. The "OMG EVERYONE WHO DARES TO CHALLENGE ME IS A BIGOT" shit.

Dude, trust me, he will not chill.

It doesn't matter how reasonable you are.

If you disagree with Spatula -- you're a bigot and that's it.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Do you realize that this statement is a glaring example of bigotry?

Oh my.

You actually went for that card. Like, HOLY SHIT. lolololol

There's nothing written in the fabric of the universe that makes those statements objectively true.

If you believe in them and think the world would be a better place if more people believed in them then you must always engage others with persuasive arguments. You want more people on your side, don't you? Making a dogma out of those beliefs makes those who haven't been convinced yet move further in the opposite direction.

HOLY SHIT.

HOOOOOLY SHIT.


HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT.

 

[Breads]

I don't want people with shitty views about me to be nice to me. I have friends and family for that. Fragile bigots who care more about their right to tell me to go back to my country or speak american or lament at my desire to be included as if my existance is a personal attack to all white people can continue to be shitty. I don't need their approval. I never did.

What is this fantasy scenario that conservatives were banned? If you're conflating bigotry with conservative views then I guess I see wherr you're coming from. Not sure people were banned for their conservative views on defense spending or healthcare/tax/districting reforms.

 

[[Sigma]]

I think you mistake what people want to discuss.

What most peeps are talking about is this.

Person 1: Captain America should be black

Person 2: I disagree, make a new character that is black.

Moderater bans person 2 for racism

or

Person 1: Cammy's outfit is pure male gaze and designed for misogynists

Person 2: I think Cammy's outfit makes her look sexy and powerful and I like it.

Moderator bans person 2 for being a sexist.

That is what people are talking about when they say they want to discuss things, not obviously bigoted stuff like should gay people have rights, or why do we need more blacks in games.

I scanned neogaf for many years before I signed up and this was a common theme I saw of it. Not in a literal sense but what it felt like was happening instead of conversation. You had to be down or you were sent packing.

 

[Mahadev]

But what were these conservative ideas that had to be drive by posts? How indefensible of a post must it be that the poster can't defend them and has to run off and cry foul that their view is not being taken seriously?

Dude, either you didn't visit the forum too much or this is some kind of cognitive dissonance. It's not because he couldn't defend his arguments, it's because he was going to get banned either way since the mods were literally looking for reasons to ban dissenters: https://imgur.com/a/mWYq8#YgguFL It was happening all. the. time.

And it wasn't just conservatives. A friend of mine who was a junior was permed and his post was deleted because he tried to explain the Ukrainian crisis from a more objective non Western-centric perspective. People who were leftists (actual leftists not neoliberals pretending to be left) were also getting banned and dogpiled. One of the best imo posters on the forum ever, empty vessel, abandoned the forum a few years ago because he was constantly being censored in subtle but very effective ways.

 

[MaximusPayne]

Who's on first?

 

[Lionel Richie]

Oh my god.

OH MY GOD.

Are you really defending bigotry?

Holy shit.

NeoGAF went to the shitters faster than a port-o-potty being thrown in a dump.

Nobody here defended bigotry dude. But your definition of what is or isn't a bigoted view might not be the same other people have. This is a hard discussion to be had over abstract possibilities, it's a concrete case by case scenario as no actual opinion has been brought to be discussed. When it comes to that and if you see people defending actual racism, then yeah, you can do that "port-o-potty" bit.

 

[norm9]

There's nothing written in the fabric of the universe that makes those statements objectively true.

If you believe in them and think the world would be a better place if more people believed in them then you must always engage others with persuasive arguments. You want more people on your side, don't you? Making a dogma out of those beliefs makes those who haven't been convinced yet move further in the opposite direction.

I don't think I've ever heard an opposite opinion for those three statements that wasn't idiotic and could be backed up in any way shape or form.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

Great -- I happen to agree with you on skimpy outfits and racial representation in fantasy games. But I will never understand why you want the other side outright banned. If you have better ideas, than let them win the day! The racists and sexists will hopefully retreat to 4chan or wherever. But when you outright suppress the other side, that's when you start alienating people.

1-Why would you allow violence and harassment to our female members
2-The average misogynistic 4chan/Reddit coment is very easy to make since it's not based on fact but on gut feeling. It's very easily spammed, and prevents the meaningful discussion. Domeone doesn't believe women deserve to have a voice? We don't give a fuck. We are discussing HOW it's best to diversify the voices in videogames and we don't care about the 2736272nd Gamergate guy trying to derail conversation.

 

[Velius]

Dude, trust me, he will not chill.

It doesn't matter how reasonable you are.

If you disagree with Spatula -- you're a bigot and that's it.

So this is par for the course? Should I even bother with him?

 

[Mael]

Glass Joe is still here after this shit:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1454989

I would give them a break but it's pretty clear the direction NeoGAF is going.

To quote someone famous : "Racists buy shoes too"
I hope it's worth it for them because I doubt there's going to be any diversity left at all after they let the nuGaf break through everything.

Dude, chill out and thake a breath.

This is what everyone is talking about. The "OMG EVERYONE WHO DARES TO CHALLENGE ME IS A BIGOT" shit.

How about you clarify what the "challenging opinion" actually is instead of hiding behind the facade?

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

HOLY SHIT.

HOOOOOLY SHIT.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT.

You were complaining about me "shitposting" in another thread.

I mean -- this is literally a shit post. In that 50% of the words are "shit."

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I scanned neogaf for many years before I signed up and this was a common theme I saw of it.

No it wasn't. You're just rewriting history here, champ.

You could say, "hey, I don't want captain america to be black" but then you open yourself up to discussion by voluntarily putting out your opinion. Then whenever those fuckers started to expand on their opinion it became very fucking obvious it came from an area of ignorance and racism.

But hey, who the fuck cares about context anymore? It's all about "don't ban people for other opinions" now.

You were complaining about me "shitposting" in another thread.

I mean -- this is literally a shit post. In that 50% of the words are "shit."

I'm shocked at the blatant gamer gate perspectives being thrown around without fear.

It's really shocking just how far NeoGAF fell in the last couple days.

Like, HOOOOOOOLY SHIT.

You got people arguing in good faith that racism isn't universally an objectionably bad thing.

HOOOOOLY SHIT.

 

[Elfstar]

'cause we know what y'all are doing. It's fun to call out your shit.

You're not going to actually say what views should be defending cause you know contextually it would be fine in the old OT if you did it properly.

But you'll skirt around any kind of detail and retreat to a blanket "banned for different opinion" statements as if we don't know what y'all mean.

You're not calling out anyone though. You're just squealing and screaming histerically.

 

[Sailent]

Well said.

 

[Laiza]

Do you realize that this statement is a glaring example of bigotry?

Ppffffffft!!

I'm sorry... really? I can't even...

I don't even know where to begin! Is this is the level of discourse we can expect from GAF now?! "I'm not, you are!" Yeah, I guess we can all go back to elementary school and start from there, because it seems some of us never got past that phase of our lives...

 

[Jack The Nipper]

I don't want people with shitty views about me to be nice to me. I have friends and family for that. Fragile bigots who care more about their right to tell me to go back to my country or speak american or lament at my desire to be included as if my existance is a personal attack to all white people can continue to be shitty. I don't need their approval. I never did.

What is this fantasy scenario that conservatives were banned? If you're conflating bigotry with conservative views then I guess I see wherr you're coming from. Not sure people were banned for their conservative views on defense spending or healthcare/tax/districting reforms.

This happened to my chinese friend, a man kept talking down to people and I could clearly see he hates the people around him even though he is a minority himself. I do hate to see people get treated bad and I did get into a small argument with him. I told him it just doesn't make sense to treat someone bad cause their language isn't as good as his.

All he said is what country is this, at least his manager didn't like that but she only said he is reliable. Fine, whatever, we weren't there for long anyways but he was the secuirty guard at the building we were in, which was all asian. He doesn't need to be there, he and they would be better if he was at another job in truth. I have seen his bad attitude almost any time he was talking to someone.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You're not calling out anyone though. You're just squealing and screaming histerically.

Oh yeah, that's what I'm doing Mr. "I think other opinions should be allowed to be discussed. I won't say which opinions though because I want to protect even bigoted opinions from scrutiny."

lolol

We get you.

 

[Mael]

There's nothing written in the fabric of the universe that makes those statements objectively true.

If you believe in them and think the world would be a better place if more people believed in them then you must always engage others with persuasive arguments. You want more people on your side, don't you? Making a dogma out of those beliefs makes those who haven't been convinced yet move further in the opposite direction.

.

 

[Metalingus5150]

"There's nothing written in the fabric of the universe that makes those statements objectively true." Might be the dumbest argument I've heard

 

[Mooreberg]

This all rings extremely hollow when people who have/had been here for digital eons were regarded as Nazis for not agreeing with a YouTube channel, or having to avoid large swaths of threads entirely to avoid being banned. And I am only talking about the gaming side. People have spent the past three years turning politely indifferent people into adversaries. I won't deny that a lot of Reddit/Voat offshoot stuff relied heavily on personal vendettas against the site administrator (funny where that attitude is coming from this week), but there are also reams of people in various places who were banned by forum moderation for no logical reason. I see user names on sites as innocuous as a Gamersyde (a Belgium based HD video site) that were banned here years ago without explanation. Lumping everyone who doesn't care about your personal crusade on a video game forum in with your political opponents is how this mess started in the first place.

 

[Clockwork]

No it wasn't. You're just rewriting history here, champ

He really isn't.

 

[Breads]

You're not calling out anyone though. You're just squealing and screaming histerically.

reeeeeeeeeeee

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

So this is par for the course? Should I even bother with him?

No.

I always want to give Spatula the benefit of the doubt, but it's like trying to converse with a bot that's only programmed to respond with "racism!" "sexism!" "bigotry!" etc.

Meaningful human conversation is totally impossible with a person who is totally in the grips of ideological possession.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Oh yeah, that's what I'm doing Mr. "I think other opinions should be allowed to be discussed. I won't say which opinions though because I want to protect even bigoted opinions from scrutiny."

lolol

We get you.

I should have known it was way too hard to talk to you, you have proven that very well here.

 

[Razorback]

Oh my.

You actually went for that card. Like, HOLY SHIT. lolololol




HOLY SHIT.

HOOOOOLY SHIT.


HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT.

I take from this reaction that you think I'm not a supporter of gay\trans\etc rights.

Stop reading between the lines and just read the lines.

 

[Elfstar]

Oh yeah, that's what I'm doing Mr. "I think other opinions should be allowed to be discussed. I won't say which opinions though because I want to protect even bigoted opinions from scrutiny."

lolol

We get you.

Lolololol lmao amirite?

What do i have to do exactly? Should i list everything that comes on my mind?

 

[Crossing Eden]

"You're a perfect example of the link below"
Okay Crossing Eden, way to literally prove what some people in this thread are saying 100% correct. Way to be a "perfect example"! See how being passive aggressive makes you not a total douche?
Not to derail the thread, but how the fuck is Quiet a misogynistic character? In a series where you spend a solid 20 minutes completely butt-naked (bare ass and all) as the player character (a white male, if you are really so racist to care about that so much), and also having the ability to play through an entire game (in fact, in the same game as Quiet!) in swim trunks (yet again, as both a male and female), her outfit literally means nothing. Is it the fact that she can't talk? The game does a good job of giving that aspect of her development, which actually leads to the best side-story ending in the entire game.

You don't see how a character who's literally the only woman in a game being named Quiet, who also will quite literally die if she wears too much clothing, and is sexualizaed indefinitely with not just her outfit but during both her torture and rape scenes, you don't see how that can be considered misogynistic?

Actually, I'll take a third option here: you don't play games (hence why you bitch about Quiet: you haven't played MGS at all)
You go on an internet gaming forum to bitch about diversity while at the same time making you a double-standard racist, while only trying out games marketed with a huge diversity push so you don't appear to be on here to stir shit all day. Not so different to Anita Sarkeesian, actually

Yea man I don't play video games. I only play games that constantly advertise how diverse they are. Like, Bloodborne, I sure remember all those diversity talks about Bloodborne from Miyazaki, weird that he never mentioned the difficulty in that advertising tho.
Same with Let It Die, so many diversity talks in that marketing. Seriously, don't ever insinuate that I don't play games again. That shit's incredibly laughable and not even valid in a time where all consoles come with capture software. Take that L.

And the only response to the bolded is.....just wow....and you wonder why people don't take arguments from "the other side" seriously.

I'm no racist. I openly condemn serious racism and any form of supremacy. I'm all for having cool characters of many different backgrounds (Overwatch does a pretty good job of this), but incessantly bitching about how Mario should be hispanic

WHO even did this?

or how Link should be a woman and to stop having white male protagonists simply because "fuck white people, fuck Drumpf" (which is exactly what you imply from your prior posts) is wrong.

If your takeaway from me advocating for more diversity in this medium is "fuck white people." Then you need genuinely better reading comprehension. Also Link is a blank slate who even in the latest entry doesn't emote in anyway shape or form, it's also to the point where he's hella androgynous. Having separate voice lines doesn't mean fuck white people.

It's just as racist as the so called "hate mail" you guys seem to complain about from the online communities (hint hint: it's called ignore them. Put them on mute. Have a spine and learn that people are always going to be like that, so just turn the other cheek and keep doing your thing. Complaining about them only feeds them.).

Not how that works.

Make a character matter because of their character, not their race. This is why people like Black Panther; he's a genuinely cool character with a great costume, and he has far more depth than just being a black superhero. Race shouldn't be a priority for any character, just a little something to add to their background. Black, Asian, White... it doesn't matter.

You talk about this as if there wasn't a time in this industry where pubs were literally told not to make characters who weren't white and male. Like the devs of Remember Me. Or how ND had to fight their marketing team to keep Ellie in front of Joel on the cover.

It's also amazing how once the tables have turned on this website and the far-left maniacs have become sparse, you guys resort to groveling and begging for kindness, because after acting like a massive piece of shit for years, you guys are seeing that the rest of the world doesn't take being insulted and being called racist/sexist (for pretty much the pettiest/most uninformed shit I could imagine) all the time kindly. This is karma.

Where do you see me begging? Where do you see anyone ITT in support of the OP begging?

I scanned neogaf for many years before I signed up and this was a common theme I saw of it. Not in a literal sense but what it felt like was happening instead of conversation. You had to be down or you were sent packing.

I literally got not one but TWO different tags on this forum because I disagree with the common dislike of Ubisoft's output. You do not need to conform to every single GAF opinion. That's not how it's ever worked.

 

[Mahadev]

You're not calling out anyone though. You're just squealing and screaming histerically.

That is Subpar's idea of arguing. This is the kind of people that thrived here because there was no need for debating skills as long as you agreed with their narrative.

 

[Vicetrailia]

The right and left are on two completely different planes of were the discussion can begin, on what opinions are worth a salt.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

He really isn't.

He is.

Don't lie.

lolololololol

Y'all, like, so predictable.

That is Subpar's idea of arguing. This is the kind of people that thrived here because there was no need for debating skills as long as you agreed with their narrative.

At least I'm not shitty enough to entertain the idea of thinking bigotry is a defensible perspective.

lolololol

 

[Velius]

Ppffffffft!!

I'm sorry... really? I can't even...

I don't even know where to begin! Is this is the level of discourse we can expect from GAF now?! "I'm not, you are!" Yeah, I guess we can all go back to elementary school and start from there, because it seems some of us never got past that phase of our lives...

It's a valid point. It's not "I know you are but what am I", it's being a glass cannon.

To say "Your views are inherently wrong" or some sort of equivalent, is a form of bigotry. Bigotry is intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

So far both you and him have given the same response, which is essentially "LOL! I can't even."

You're damn right you can't. Because you have no logical answer.

 

[cubicle47b]

You're not going to actually say what views should be defending cause you know contextually it would be fine in the old OT if you did it properly.

This is true for the most part, but even minor mistakes were heavily punished whereas outspoken liberal posters were often able to get away with murder.

 

[Mael]

I take from this reaction that you think I'm not a supporter of gay\trans\etc rights.

Stop reading between the lines and just read the lines.

Or you could be more careful about what you post or clarify to make it crystal clear what you meant.
I guess doubling down is easier.

 

[geordiemp]

I think you mistake what people want to discuss.

What most peeps are talking about is this.

Person 1: Captain America should be black

Person 2: I disagree, make a new character that is black.

Moderater bans person 2 for racism

or

Person 1: Cammy's outfit is pure male gaze and designed for misogynists

Person 2: I think Cammy's outfit makes her look sexy and powerful and I like it.

Moderator bans person 2 for being a sexist.

That is what people are talking about when they say they want to discuss things, not obviously bigoted stuff like should gay people have rights, or why do we need more blacks in games.

I made a Cammy like comment once and banned for a week in my early GAF existance, after the usual posse latched on to me like pit bulls with their usual outrage and hang the witch. I think it was that I found Dragon Age inquisition characters butt ugly lol, all of them.

Since that early lesson I avoided such threads on Neogaf like the plague and dont engage at all, no matter how polite.

 

[Trey]

Subpar, are you doing some sort of performative dance? I'm not really seeing what you're driving at.

 

[Aces&Eights]

That is Subpar's idea of arguing. This is the kind of people that thrived here because there was no need for debating skills as long as you agreed with their narrative.

I just wish the ignore button also blocked out their posts in quotes.

 

[The_blonde_and_blue]

Holy shit.
This thread somehow keeps getting worse.

The posters who are the most guilty of this are still shilling their game. Assuming everyone is a bigot. Assuming everyone is a closet racist. Just assuming the worst in general, and not performing the first step of dialog, and that's to give the other person the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they aren't pond scum.

And these opinions are?
Damn you're really good in here to skirt over what these opinions were...

Seriously, it could be anything that didn't align with the GAF hivemind. Just an few examples off the top of my head.

• Don't think all guns should be banned? "Haha, right-wing nutjob!"
• Don't agree that all police officers are racist, terrible people? "You damn fool, fuck all police!"
• Didn't like Hillary in the election? "Go vote for drumpf you tard! YASSSS QUEEEN"

 

[Jack The Nipper]

He isn't like others, it is never fair to group people as they will also have a lot of varying ideas. I can't be grouped with most of my family or parts of my family that like trump, no doubt about that. I know that.

I wouldn't like to say he is like them, or like somoene. He is he and that is all he is, he can do as he wishes of course. Nothing wrong with that, that's all we all are. Who we are.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

This is true for the most part, but even minor mistakes were heavily punished whereas outspoken liberal posters were often able to get away with murder.

Minor mistakes?

Bigotry isn't a mistake and people would tell you what you did wrong so you'd have a second chance. However, if you did something stupid and go, "pewdiepie isn't racist for saying the n word" then you'd be banned for sheer stupidity of statement.

Heck, I made mistakes in OT and wasn't severely banned for them and this was during the era where I spouted some shit like, "if no one knows you're race, are you safe to say the N word online?"

I grew up. Y'all can too.

 

[Razorback]

.

Not sure how this relates to what I said. But I'm not arguing for meeting people in the middle. I'm arguing for persuasive arguments. Convince others with reason and evidence, not snark.

 

[nkarafo]

There were posters with reasonable different opinions who got banned without being racists or sexists. GAF was known for this.

 

[tkscz]

.

Alright, here is something I cannot stand and hope we see less of. NeoGAF had WAY too much "lol your belief" passive aggressive bullying. Either say something thoughtful or don't reply. What you're doing is still a form of bullying

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Not sure how this relates to what I said. But I'm not arguing for meeting people in the middle. I'm arguing for persuasive arguments. Convince others with reason and evidence, not snark.

Oh, we don't have to convince people bigotry is bad. They can learn when people shun them.

The discussion has already been had. You didn't have to be around because other people share your views. Those views were shot down.

Y'all just salty you never got to say your piece.

 

[HerroRygar]

Holy shit. Why can't you guys just accept your beliefs are inherently bigoted?

Why do you guys continuously want to discuss these issues?

Why can't y'all actually take steps after having the billionth fucking discussion?

How would you react if someone was saying things like this to you? Would you take their point to heart, or would you be angry?

 

[Lionel Richie]

Or you could be more careful about what you post or clarify to make it crystal clear what you meant.
I guess doubling down is easier.

The person who quoted him could also grow thicker skin and not just assume shit and then throw a tantrum because he misinterpreted him.

 

[BadHand]

lolololololololololol
OH MA GAD
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
HOOOLLLY SHIT

Take a step back and look at some of your posts in this thread. Take some deep breaths and try to communicate like a civil person.

 

[Geedorah]

I just wish the ignore button also blocked out their posts in quotes.

I've been a member for four years.

Subpar Spatula was the first user I ever felt the need to place on the Ignore list.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

The posters who are the most guilty of this are still shilling their game. Assuming everyone is a bigot. Assuming everyone is a closet racist. Just assuming the worst in general, and not performing the first step of dialog, and that's to give the other person the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they aren't pond scum.

That's what gets me too man. I can't imagine the cynicism it takes to automatically assume someone is a bigot without even really talking to them first. It's the rush to assume the worst in someone that I find so distasteful.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

How would you react if someone was saying things like this to you? Would you take their point to heart, or would you be angry?

I'd wonder why someone called me bigoted and reflect on what I did.

Like, if someone calls you bigoted, racist, misogynistic, or whatever there's got to be something in your head that clicks and goes, "Was I X?" Then you reflect a bit. However, I am 100% sure a lot of y'all just get defensive immediately and can't reflect worth shit.