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[EverydayBeast]

huh? shit looks like hot shit, I can't wait to get me hands on some god of war.

 

[Azelover]

I don't mean to sound rude, so if I do I'll apologize for my wording in advance if I do as that's not the intent, but people know you can keep something fresh without completely changing everything about a series right? I always cringe when I see people using that argument for a franchise basically throwing everything away, or making a full genre change.

I mean there of tons of other franchises been around for a long time that are still acclaimed to this day, yet when you see and play them it's still what it is. I mean just look at what Nintendo did with a hat for Mario. Even something as changed as Breath of the Wild still was Zelda. People say Resident Evil 7 was a big change, yet it actually wasn't, camera now being from the characters eyes just gave it that illusion, and the new enemies you were fighting.

The thing with God of War is it was stale not because every God of War was the same type of game, but the game never evolved past the QOL improvements of God of War 2. You used the same weapon, with the same combos, and alt weapons were just treated as glorified sub-weapons, God of War 3 tried to improve on that but it was still chain weapons with the gauntlets being the only stand out, and then Ascension just said fuck it all and gave us elemental swapping. Then of course non boss enemies, you saw them repeated a lot from game to game.

I mean you look at DMC1 to DMC3, there was overhauls in the controls, a variety of new weapon types, different styles, new enemies, all things that kept it fresh. Even the DMC reboot kept it DMC, and despite all the things it did wrong, the camera and finally making the platforming not totally suck was welcome. Then you got the Bayonetta evolution to DMC, still had a lot of DMC in there but it was fresh and new, then Bayonetta 2 with the new weapons, enemies, mechanics, the same but still fresh.

With God of War, we've talked about the new combat, camera, companion, but there is something major not talked about.
There is no jump button.
There is no platforming.
There is no scaling walls and all that.
All this is just gone. Not redone, not improved, just outright gone. There is a lot of games they could have taken ideas to improve or redo this, but it's just been removed. That's a lot of gameplay variety just gone, and so far seems to have been replaced with nothing. This is what separated the originals from it's competition since they knew that there combat system wasn't as good, but they just Mako'ed that.

Good points.

 

[Frozone]

I can't wait for this. I love the companion relationship. And I love the axe! This is the first time I like something other than a sword/knife.

 

[RyanEvans21]

Can't Wait

 

[Darak]

I'm not a fan of the changes. To be honest, there are only very few elements linking this to the franchise (the Kratos name, and a few nods here and there like the tattoos). If it weren't for those, this would have never been considered a spiritual sequel, much less a proper one.

It's pretty disappointing because there are no longer many third person action games, specially with high production values, but narrative adventures with an over-the-shoulder camera are a dime a dozen.

The kid is also obnoxious.

 

[llien]

Soo... a working link anyone?

 

[John_Espinoza]

God of War is one of my favorite game. But didn't know about this part what configuration need to play this game anyone suggests me about it?

 

[ManUnkindH]

any link that works? just found out about this

 

[TheDuskwalker]

I'm not a fan of the changes. To be honest, there are only very few elements linking this to the franchise (the Kratos name, and a few nods here and there like the tattoos). If it weren't for those, this would have never been considered a spiritual sequel, much less a proper one.

It's pretty disappointing because there are no longer many third person action games, specially with high production values, but narrative adventures with an over-the-shoulder camera are a dime a dozen.

The kid is also obnoxious.

God of War was also the closest to a accurate 3D Castlevania we've got. Despite it's combat being lesser than it's top tier competitors, it had one of the best uses of a whip/chain/range melee type weapon in terms of looking good and having power, until Bayonetta 2's hot whip action came along and finally nailed how to get a whip to work in 3D, and it actually had pretty adequate platforming, even with Kratos' silly double jump animation.

I mean DMC was inspired by Castlevania, but the platforming sucked ass until the reboot, and Bayonetta is light on platforming but when it's there much better than DMC1-4. In IGA's 3D Castlevania's there was barely any at all as LoI was DMC inspired and CoD was just a running down repetitive corridors simulator, and Lords of Shadow just copied God of War, but movement in that game was kind of weird and so the actual platforming sections felt really off, and Lords of Shadow 2 just said fuck it and added auto platforming. Dark Souls and Bloodborne was compared to Castlevania, but again no jumping at all. Yet as I talked about earlier, this was just outright cut altogether.

On the bright side, at least game "journalists" and critics finally get there easy difficulty for Souls.

any link that works? just found out about this

Sony are going nuts over this, you so much as show a glimpse of the footage they will be on your ass faster than Kevin Spacey at a Boy Scouts meeting.
Here's part of it, with the first minute or so missing. Watch while you can.

 

[ManUnkindH]

I think it's great, can't wait.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I'm not a fan of the changes. To be honest, there are only very few elements linking this to the franchise (the Kratos name, and a few nods here and there like the tattoos). If it weren't for those, this would have never been considered a spiritual sequel, much less a proper one.

It's pretty disappointing because there are no longer many third person action games, specially with high production values, but narrative adventures with an over-the-shoulder camera are a dime a dozen.

The kid is also obnoxious.

Why are people focusing in the "over the shoulder camera" to content that it makes it not so much of an action game? im quite sure that even something as demanding of quick inputs as a fighting game can work with this type of camera. So the reasoning behind the complain seems that it holds no grounds.

"...but narrative adventures with an over-the-shoulder camera are a dime a dozen."

But God of War fits the "dime a dozen" qualifier, and saying this is not meant to be an insult to the franchize. Game developers will take something that was pioneered by other games, that has become rather polished and put their own elements into that frame work. Some posters mentioned Castlevania... well Castlevania basically took the 2D action game mold of the time and fited some presentational elements. Like wise God of War took 3D action game mold introduced by other game outfiting it with Greek Mythology and other minor mechanics/adjustments.

The thing we need to understand when critisizing the direction the last entry has taken is that, there's not much for God of War to call it's own in terms of what contributions it made to the genre it fits in. The series strong point wasn't how it revolutionazed the status quo, it limited itself to take what it works and make a presentational impressive game with solid mechanics and great feelback. God of War 2018 is no different in this sense.

 

[BLAUcopter]

Yeah I thought about it too (especially since I've been playing it those last weeks), but it doesn't even compare favorably. Ryse is especially entertaining by its very realistic feeling of impact, the fight being based on shield parries and timed combos, and with the player being usually surrounded by enemies. It feels much more grounded, and makes the magical axe and retractable shield of GoW look a bit silly in comparison.

100% Ryse vibes. That "other place" doesn't think so though. How dare anyone compare a Sony exclusive to a game that im guessing the vast majority of them shit all over for the lulz.

It's a shame there most likely won't be a sequel, Ryse had some sweet combat

 

[LostDonkey]

Oooof I didn't like the look of that. What's happened to God of War??

God of Walk morelike.

 

[JimiNutz]

Recently played through GOW 3 on PS4 and while it was a fun roller-coaster ride of a game I'm not in a rush to play another game that follows that formula of mindless button mashing.

I'm glad to see that this game is taking the series in a new direction and the combat in this video looks like it will be a lot of fun to play and maybe a little deeper than the God of War games of old.

 

[Doctor Manhattan]

https://streamable.com/bpa3s
https://streamable.com/cm02v
https://streamable.com/txk0h

Some more new footage, and a new enemy type, Just amazing, fuck

 

[Pejo]

Still not feeling the combat. I was actually kinda surprised how little reaction there was to the hits on bigger monsters. I'll still probably pick up the game for the spectacle that the GoW games are known for, but it seems like a pretty big step backwards in combat.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Looks amazing, really like how heavy the combat seems. Fits the move to the north perfectly.

 

[Darak]

Why are people focusing in the "over the shoulder camera" to content that it makes it not so much of an action game? im quite sure that even something as demanding of quick inputs as a fighting game can work with this type of camera. So the reasoning behind the complain seems that it holds no grounds.

I respectfully disagree. Combat design is a different beast when you have a player-controlled, over the shoulder camera. For example, monster tells can't be too short when those monsters are often out of view. Sure, they added HUD warnings for offscreen attacks, but those need a slower combat in order to work. Positioning and mobility also suffer a lot since you can't see behind your character. You can have great combat and a free camera: that's what the Souls games excel at, after all. But those implement a slow, strategic combat with few cancels if any, and a dodging system with plenty of iframes for backup. Works great, but can't really be compared to beat'em-ups like DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden. It's another kind of game, another genre in fact.

But God of War fits the "dime a dozen" qualifier, and saying this is not meant to be an insult to the franchize. Game developers will take something that was pioneered by other games, that has become rather polished and put their own elements into that frame work. Some posters mentioned Castlevania... well Castlevania basically took the 2D action game mold of the time and fited some presentational elements. Like wise God of War took 3D action game mold introduced by other game outfiting it with Greek Mythology and other minor mechanics/adjustments.

By the qualifier I meant that those kind of games (over-the-shoulder adventures) are commonplace, while beat'em-ups aren't. They are no longer a popular genre. They could still follow the path of fighting games: a few established franchises which sell to a dedicated fanbase. We could certainly live with one DMC, one Bayonetta and one God of War every few years. Not going to happen, for GoW at least.

The thing we need to understand when critisizing the direction the last entry has taken is that, there's not much for God of War to call it's own in terms of what contributions it made to the genre it fits in. The series strong point wasn't how it revolutionazed the status quo, it limited itself to take what it works and make a presentational impressive game with solid mechanics and great feelback. God of War 2018 is no different in this sense.

I'm sure GoW built its name making the genre more popular for a western audience, and did it using its own thing mechanically (the massive range of the chaos blades, for example). In any case it's a moot point. The first God of War was not a new entry in a established franchise and had no shoes to fill, it created its own identity with certain signature elements, regardless of how new or proven they were. Those elements are now gone, and the new God of War is that in name only. Even if the game ends up being good, it's not even a beat'em-up, IMHO, and that's a very sad way to kill a franchise.

The new God of War is to the GoW franchise what Metal Gear Survive is to the Metal Gear franchise IMHO (well, at least Survive isn't called Metal Gear Solid and heralded as the new main entry in the series).

 

[nowhat]

The new God of War is to the GoW franchise what Metal Gear Survive is to the Metal Gear franchise IMHO (well, at least Survive isn't called Metal Gear Solid and heralded as the new main entry in the series).

A bit hyperbolic, don't you think? You may not like this new direction (personally, I'm willing to give it a go - I've only played 3 and haven't ever finished it yet, got tired of the QTE button mashing), but still, the gameplay looks to be more than "poking zombies through a fence".

 

[Darak]

A bit hyperbolic, don't you think? You may not like this new direction (personally, I'm willing to give it a go - I've only played 3 and haven't ever finished it yet, got tired of the QTE button mashing), but still, the gameplay looks to be more than "poking zombies through a fence".

I don't mean that as a direct comparison (obviously the new GoW seems to be a much better game). But I get the same feeling about using the franchise name for something that has little to do with it.

 

[Orpheum]

The combat system looks great!! I'm definitely in for the changes

 

[Bryank75]

Still not feeling the combat. I was actually kinda surprised how little reaction there was to the hits on bigger monsters. I'll still probably pick up the game for the spectacle that the GoW games are known for, but it seems like a pretty big step backwards in combat.

IGN, Kotaku, polygon etc have their previews up...

 

[JP]

This looks to be so much fun.

 

[JONEZZEEonGAF]

Imagine if cory didn't change anything..... everyone would cry "same old game". I don't get all the hate.

The camera change is a welcome edition imo, I'm pretty sure they said the old camera was needed due to limitations in the engine or console.

Sign me up.

 

[nowhat]

And also initial DF analysis available:

 

[Reyziak]

First God of War game to gain my attention, and all it took was making it Norse Mythology focused and getting rid of the DMC like combat.

 

[Android Kuma]

I'm glad it's not another normal God of War game. That type of game was getting boring/outdated for critics and fans. This new style seems interesting as it makes combat more tactical than the generic hack-and-slash. The old games were great, but I think a change of direction is good for the series.

 

[Soleil rouge]

The combat doesn't look great, but better than the outdated QTE mashing of past games, IMO. That style of game play was good for the time, but recent combat oriented games have left GoW in the dust.

Having a son, on the other hand, feels totally unnecessary and clearly just trying to piggyback off of TLoU's success and emotional impact.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I respectfully disagree. Combat design is a different beast when you have a player-controlled, over the shoulder camera. For example, monster tells can't be too short when those monsters are often out of view. Sure, they added HUD warnings for offscreen attacks, but those need a slower combat in order to work. Positioning and mobility also suffer a lot since you can't see behind your character. You can have great combat and a free camera: that's what the Souls games excel at, after all. But those implement a slow, strategic combat with few cancels if any, and a dodging system with plenty of iframes for backup. Works great, but can't really be compared to beat'em-ups like DMC, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden. It's another kind of game, another genre in fact.

Except there's nothing for you to disagree with my statement, go and read it over. it was merely adressing the following:

It's pretty disappointing because there are no longer many third person action games, specially with high production values, but narrative adventures with an over-the-shoulder camera are a dime a dozen.

Intentionally or not in the above case (and others in the thread previously) implied how "actiony" or not the game can be due to the camera angle choice. i just limited myself to point out that it is possible to have a very reflex and dexterity heavy action game with an over the shoulder camera. This is not an statement of preference from myself but pointing out a reality.

The highlighted feels kind of like putting words in my mouth as i never said or think the contrary. The issue here is that you are applaying the old GoW combat logic to the 2018 one. Of course enemy encounters would be redesigned with the new camera perspective.

But just like there are some limitations with the new style, as you well point out, there's also new possibilities. For example, a game with the 2nd person camera could implement manual aiming so it requires that extra skill from the player layered into the combat. In the first GoW this wouldn't work as well with the directed camera. Also, the closer view of the action enhances the "feelback" of the combat, there's more detail for the player to absorve at any given moment. Every hit feels more impactful and solid than the area of effect style of the classic GoW chain weapon with the more zoomed out camera. The old GoW adressed this to some extent with it's QTEs, sadly a switch got flipped somewhere and everyone decided to hate that play mechanic.

Another thing i want to point out. You mention DMC and Ninja Gaiden, well DMC had directed camera angles while Ninja Gaiden used a more free behind the back camera, that was a significant change yet Ninja Gaiden is clearly inspired by DMC.

By the qualifier I meant that those kind of games (over-the-shoulder adventures) are commonplace, while beat'em-ups aren't. They are no longer a popular genre. They could still follow the path of fighting games: a few established franchises which sell to a dedicated fanbase. We could certainly live with one DMC, one Bayonetta and one God of War every few years. Not going to happen, for GoW at least.

I'm sure GoW built its name making the genre more popular for a western audience, and did it using its own thing mechanically (the massive range of the chaos blades, for example). In any case it's a moot point. The first God of War was not a new entry in a established franchise and had no shoes to fill, it created its own identity with certain signature elements, regardless of how new or proven they were. Those elements are now gone, and the new God of War is that in name only. Even if the game ends up being good, it's not even a beat'em-up, IMHO, and that's a very sad way to kill a franchise.

The new God of War is to the GoW franchise what Metal Gear Survive is to the Metal Gear franchise IMHO (well, at least Survive isn't called Metal Gear Solid and heralded as the new main entry in the series).

Again, you are letting a camera angle define what a game is... that's like saying every first person game is a shooter. In reality we can have 1st, "2nd" or 3rd person or even 2D side scrolling Beat'em-ups, the camera is not what's decides the style of game it is. Anyway, Beat'em-ups had their time in the market and saturated it until people got tired, just like Shoot'em Ups. The thing is genres tend to get fleshed out an adapt more elements (even from other genres) to stay relevant and fresh in the eyes of the consumer.

And i already adressed that in the previous post... like Castlevania, like the original GoW took what it was already stablished in action games and build it's foundation over it. Like Zelda II was still considered Zelda even taught is radically different and more action oriented (Souls games are a 3D version of it basically). Or like LttP was still Zelda even when letting behind the open world of the original for a more structured/linear progression system and more focus on puzzles. GoW 2018 is no different.

Somewhat related: Doom 2016 got praised to heaven and back, and that game adopted a bunch of stuff that was never part of the original but it's considered standard for today's shooters.

 

[Dunki]

reading all these previews made me come around a bit. But I am still skeptical about the whole thing. Maybe I just need to see the first hour or two to make sure I will like it. Probably will buy it after Yakuza 6^^

 

[vpance]

Put me in the liking the changes camp. Not too enthused on the whole son angle though, and am still worried about the amount of walk and talk.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think many are hung up on details of how it differs to the original games, I think we're looking at a game with far more rpg in it's dna now... 45 plus hours of gameplay vs 8 hours to complete the old games.
His shoulder-brace and armour are upgradable , his attributes such as vitality, strength, luck etc are also upgradable along with weapons... I assume there will be a selection of weapons to collect and depending on what happens in the story it may include Mjolnir and Blades of Chaos-like weapons.
Apparently the camera has some customization ...

No way this game takes 40+ hours to beat. Just no way.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Who’s gonna be the first outlet to cry about feeling uncomfortable with the amount of masculinity this game will have?

 

[j0hnnix]

It looks so different from the actual gow series. I agree it has a tlou feel. Why change what was so fun about gow. I won't say it's a bad change but I'm skeptical.

 

[Gradly]

I still love the old style gameplay but Ascension didn't do well and was forgettable and people were fed up with the same formula and style over and over again. Personally, I consider GOW wrapped up and this is a new game/IP and I love what they did so far because 3rd person action adventure is my favorite genre

 

[Chip Chipperson]

As someone who just finished GOW3, it’s cool to see you’ll need some tact and awareness of your surroundings during combat finally. The old titles were pretty mindless, mash square/triangle your way to victory games. Hell I didn’t even start blocking until the first part of the Zeus battle. Luckily that’s not the case here it seems. Loving how weighty and chunky the combat looks.

Only thing that’s a bit weird is the pumpkin innard guts from the enemies, but whatever.

 

[CloudStrife_ca]

I'm excited for it, good on Sony for having the balls to change it up abit seeing the combat in action. It won't please everyone and you can't but you'll have my money for that sweet collectors edition on day one.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

If they changed nothing and it was the same ol fixed camera, button mashy chain whip shit, people would still be pissing and moaning.

 

[Ar¢tos]

After watching a few gameplay videos, the fighting seems to be more tactical, with a bit of "souls" influence, i like that! I'm back in hype mode.
I might take advantage that the dollar value is lower now and pre-order on US psn (49€).

 

[Horns]

More interested in this than past God of War games. I hated the fixed camera used in prior games.

 

[Calibos]

Looks pretty damn great to me, but I can see the complaints having some validity. The cinematic look and feel is great and the Joel/Ellie style relationship is cool too, but people are missing the arcadey, fast paced action of all the other God of Wars.

Put "The Last of Us" and "God of War" in a blender with Norse Mythology and out comes this God of War shake.

I am excited to play this as it should satisfy that slower, souls-like combat itch I have been craving...Hopefully Kratos is fleshed out some as a character though as I have always found him to be a boring, brutish, uninteresting character.

 

[xviper]

i wonder if we will see environments like this in GOW 4, because all i see from the videos is the same boring forest\cave environment, previous GOW games had stunning environmental visuals and art direction

 

[Chip Chipperson]

i wonder if we will see environments like this in GOW 4, because all i see from the videos is the same boring forest\cave environment, previous GOW games had stunning environmental visuals and art direction

They’re clearly hiding most of the environments from prying eyes. In the story trailer you get quick glimpses of other places.

 

[Darak]

Except there's nothing for you to disagree with my statement, go and read it over.

I disagree with the notion that the choice of a camera model does not dictate, or at least heavily influence, the combat design of the game. If that's not what you are implying with your original post, perhaps I misread it, but it seemed to me like you were dismissing criticism of the camera choice as if that didn't have anything to do with the rest of the game's design.

The highlighted feels kind of like putting words in my mouth as i never said or think the contrary. The issue here is that you are applaying the old GoW combat logic to the 2018 one. Of course enemy encounters would be redesigned with the new camera perspective.

That was never my intention, sorry if it looked that way. I was merely pointing at an example of how the camera choices has direct influence in the combat of a game.

But just like there are some limitations with the new style, as you well point out, there's also new possibilities. For example, a game with the 2nd person camera could implement manual aiming so it requires that extra skill from the player layered into the combat.

Fair enough, but that's still a very different beast. Experiments are welcome, but they are best done with new franchises with no need to mess up the identity of an established one.

The old GoW adressed this to some extent with it's QTEs, sadly a switch got flipped somewhere and everyone decided to hate that play mechanic.

Well, I enjoyed those QTE at the time. They were not without fault, and I think the sequels improved the design. In fact, judging by modern standards, I think the games would have been better if they replaced them with some kind of direct, fast grab kills with some rewards. Something like last Doom's gory kills, which was probably inspired by beat'em-ups to begin with.

Another thing i want to point out. You mention DMC and Ninja Gaiden, well DMC had directed camera angles while Ninja Gaiden used a more free behind the back camera, that was a significant change yet Ninja Gaiden is clearly inspired by DMC.

Ninja Gaiden used a mix of directed, corridor travelling, and free form cameras depending on the scene. They worked hard in order to ensure you weren't attacked very often from offscreen (and I'd still argue that many times they didn't succeed, and as a result, the camera is not one of the strengths of the game). If I recall correctly, the sequel tended to use the directed ones more often, but I may remember that incorrectly.

Again, you are letting a camera angle define what a game is... that's like saying every first person game is a shooter. In reality we can have 1st, "2nd" or 3rd person or even 2D side scrolling Beat'em-ups, the camera is not what's decides the style of game it is. Anyway, Beat'em-ups had their time in the market and saturated it until people got tired, just like Shoot'em Ups. The thing is genres tend to get fleshed out an adapt more elements (even from other genres) to stay relevant and fresh in the eyes of the consumer.

The camera angle heavily influences a game's design, to the point were certain genres are not well suited to certain cameras, at all. A beat'em-up is not well suited to over-the-shoulder free cameras.

Sure, there are plenty of experiments and examples out there. There are turn-based team tactic games which are played in first person, not to mention every other crazy combination. And sometimes an amazing game can prove everybody wrong and make a genre work using a different camera (most people would say platform games couldn't possible work in 3D with a free camera before Mario 64). But the only serious attempt I remember of a beat'em-up with free camera was God Hand, and it didn't succeed.

I think it is still too early to kill the beat'em-ups. The Bayonetta 3 announcement had a great reception and everybody is asking for a new, proper DMC, which seems likely to happen if rumors are to be trusted. They won't be as popular as they once were, but as I said, they may find their niche and keep their audience happy, like fighting games are still doing.

Somewhat related: Doom 2016 got praised to heaven and back, and that game adopted a bunch of stuff that was never part of the original but it's considered standard for today's shooters.

I think Doom 2016 introduced many changes but still kept the identity of the original. Doom 3, in comparison, introduced many new things, but failed to keep that identity in many ways. Even then, the new Doom was in a good position to innovate.

I don't think the new God of War keeps the identity of the series, judging by the footage available and info given by the developers (which should be plenty enough).

(Sorry for the lengthy post, but I felt the need to clarify my points since my last post seemed a bit harsh.)

 

[DavidGzz]

Man, those new vids. So much goodness!

Guys, I can't, my hype is through the roof! If this is as fun as it seems...IDK, FromSoft, you have to really bring it with your next game.

 

[Reyziak]

Man, those new vids. So much goodness!

Guys, I can't, my hype is through the roof! If this is as fun as it seems...IDK, FromSoft, you have to really bring it with your next game.

Of course there are the rumor's that Shadows Die Twice is a new Kuon.

 

[DonF]

Looks great, very different from traditional god of war, but still interesting.

 

[DavidGzz]

Man, I hope it still looks good on base PS4, seems that these previews are on the Pro. I just don't see a need to go to the Pro when I feel that PS5 may come next year.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

They’re clearly hiding most of the environments from prying eyes. In the story trailer you get quick glimpses of other places.

I think GOW4 will have many of these kind of places and palaces. But I think Sony does not want to show it before the release.

We'll see many kinds of places but in the norse mitology and culture.

 

[Danjin44]

I think GOW4 will have many of these kind of places and palaces. But I think Sony does not want to show it before the release.

We'll see many kinds of places but in the norse mitology and culture.

I might be skeptical about actual combat but one thing I hope they still keep from pervious GOW series the crazy puzzles and traps like in pandora temple from original GOW.