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[It's Jeff]

Well, used to call myself feminist - but having faced the family court during my divorce and having uphill struggle to get a fair settlement & shared child custody... I don't consider myself as feminist anymore. I still do support equal rights, but at this point I'm to defend my own rights and survival on daily basis. I don't consider myself MRA either. IMO, Feminists and MRA both seem to be just mocking at each other to extreme, just like political extremists on either end at this point. As a mere individual, I just plan to ride out my life quietly, doing as best as I can as I always have been, always reflecting what I learn every day, carefully. Who knows, I may find someone else down the road, but I plan to dedicate my life to raise my child as best as I can first, as a father.

Remember seeing the scene in Ant-man. Before divorce I had no second thought on the main character counting days to come up with child support with his minimum wage so that he can see his daughter, or getting kicked out of his daughter's birthday party - Sadly such scene is a reality for many fathers. Fortunately (after spending nearly $70k on legal fees) - I got away relatively okay... just lost half of the house that I paid mostly, I pay extra $500/mo on child support cause - but at least no alimony, and best of all I have 50/50 on child custody - but child relocation battle seems to be looming up in the horizon, I'm afraid - so I have to be saving every penny.

During my marriage - I did at least 60-70% of house chores in and out, including child caring and cooking for my child's specific diet (has severe allergy) every day. Never abused my ex, and always loved her and treated her with respect. Even took her psycho (anger management issue) divorced sister and her daughter under my wing because I felt sorry for my niece - wanted to provide her stable residence for 7 years (they were moving like nomads because her mother's anger issues) till she went off to college from her abusive mother. Didn't even raise my voice (well.. 2 times I did - over 15 years) and always talked through calmly and listened with greatest intent. I gave her 100% of my earnings (which made at least 60+% of entire household income), and I had not spent a dime on myself either. Dropped all my hobbies from bachelor days and sold them off when we built our house. I supported my ex thru her grad school, she got U.S. citizenship thru me, her psycho sister and my niece got green card using my address, and I literally helped my ex get her career bloom with my full support. Few years before our divorce, though - she started to work 70+ hour week with many frequent business trips, leaving the child to my care most of the time.

Ultimately it was my ex's constant lying and her infidelity with another man - her ex bf thru social media & secret Skype account - and thanks to no-fault divorce, one of the key feminist achievement, there was nothing I could do when she filed for divorce but to face the uphill battle for what's left. And no, she didn't even want to try out for counseling, even when I begged to do it for the family, especially for our child. I still remember her rambling of how marriage is part of patriarchy and an oppression of women - that it's a shackle that binds a woman's heart and freedom to just one man. Ironically, I was the one who introduced her to Sheryl Sandberg's "Lean In", hoping it would expand her horizon. She started mingle with one who were cheating her NYT editor husband with her superior at work etc... Ex tells me few days before divorce - that "you are the perfect husband one could ever ask for - you'd have been fine if you were married to any other woman."

Had to go thru 4 years of that sheer hell of walking on eggshell trying to save the marriage & family, had been neglected and rejected in bed a year before that, lost 35lbs due to stress - I am practically a virgin now, since I haven't had sex for over 5 years now - I did not have any affairs, not even slight flirtations during marriage (15 yrs - and 4 was spent on the verge of divorce/divorce proceedings), and after divorce of last year - as I have been too busy to getting back on my feet for my child's sake and trying to provide stable household.

Only thing that I wished in my life was to have a happy, loving little family of three of us... looking after each other, fulfilling our potential, grow old together, hand in hand. After having living independently since the age of 15 all by myself and made myself thru poverty to college with a full scholarship, to a respected member of well known company, a minority with English being 2nd language to boot with - I am not sure if it was too much to dream for. I maybe an exception in the larger pool - but that doesn't justify the pain that I and especially my child had go thru of broken family, which feminism didn't really helped keeping it together at all. Actually it worked against it, in the form of no-fault divorce and opposing default shared custody. Even if your pain maybe bigger than mine, it doesn't mean that I am not in pain. I won't be in the way of feminism or their crusade of equality - as my ex always says "hey' it's a free country" - but at the same time, I just don't want to be in the frontline of supporting it either.

One funny example of my ex, while I'm talking...
Over the Syrian refugee crisis - she was all for accepting refugees (which I agree) - but one day, a few weeks before that I found out that she had already filed in for divorce behind my back, she comes home during evening from work (it was summer, so still light out around 8:30pm - 9pm) with company paid Uber ride. She rose her to a Director position at work - a position that she always dreamed of - so it was her privilege to have Uber ride after certain hours. Anyhow, the driver happened to be an islam believer, and he had to pray on sunset or whatnot. So as my ex entered the house, the driver put a small rug on the edge my front yard and started praying for a few min - but ex noticed the guy and started yelling to get off the lawn. I was totally fine with him doing prayer, as I know it's very important to his religion - but ex was furious and angry, and later tells to her psycho sister how scary that was. He apologized and quickly left soon after - but ex had to call the company up to complain about the driver. Sure, it would have been nice if the driver asked permission first - but I was afraid of the poor driver who could have lose his extra income, or sole income because of that. I always knew she doesn't like Chinese, Indians and middle eastern people - but such blatant racism and lack of empathy... really disappointed me at that time, as if it was showing "I welcome islam, but not in my back (well front) yard". I'm sure not all feminists are like that, but that was the hand that I had to deal with. And if that's someone that you were married to (and of course she wasn't like that in the beginning - she was super talented, considerate with amazing passion for her works) - perhaps thats one of the reason that I cannot entirely accept the modern feminism. After all, some of the most important opinions do get formed over real life experience, rather than internet forum bashing.

Thanks for sharing that. That's a terrible situation, but I'd like to thank you for being a stand up dad. No matter what happens, nothing can ever take that away from you. If you're ever in my neighborhood, first round is on me.

 

[Tumle]

If you do the crime do the time. If they're rehabilitated when they leave great if not so be it. We should be more concerned with them being punished for breaking the law than caring about their feelings. Letting people off easy isn't much of a deterrent from future crime now is it? Prisons are for punishment not rehabilitation.

It’s not about the incarcerated persons feelings, it’s about insuring that the person doesn’t do the crime again..
Prison time and death sentences really do stop people from committing crimes right?
You and I don’t do crimes not because we are afraid of going to prison..
It’s a little like the morality question with religion.. would we not be empathetic as a species if we didn’t have religion? Of course we would!
It’s only a fringe of people who do crimes.. and if we can change there behaviour to fit in to a civilised world, then we should try and do that, so we can make it a safer place..
Your way is a short sighted revenge fetish, and that is not what justice should be about

 

[Malakhov]

Man, if I were in your shoes I’d run. No looking back, perhaps go find work on a yacht out in the ocean somewhere in a foreign country where nobody could find me.... good luck!

That's how I felt after my 11 years relationship ended but it's impossible, I need to be there for my two kids. I have them on a 50/50 custody and I am lucky for that but every minute that they're not with me is a minute I feel is completely lost. I hate it.

 

[llien]

What is a "no fault divorce"?

-------------------------------------------------

OP, this could have been a thread discussing recent legislation initiatives in UK.
Instead, it's not clear what it is about, those two persons on the picture?

it’s just that some woman have misunderstood the premise just as you and other men do..

Could you elaborate, given that we already have a GIANT gender incarceration gap:

Prof. Starr's recent paper, "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases," looks closely at a large dataset of federal cases, and reveals some significant findings. After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted."

At the end of the day, women need to commit a crime really grave (and no, something like stabbing your boyfriend doesn't count) to get prison sentence to begin with, yet people think it's "not equal" enough?

Which single individuals are to blame for the push by "...a growing movement, sponsored by a peer in the House of Lords...". to make the gender incarceration gap even larger?

...trying to bring equality to both male and female.

Could you elaborate why this initiative is aimed at one gender, but not another? Or a single example of addressing systemic problems men have.

 

[zelo-ca]

You should man up and stop crying.

Woman are biologically equipped to have and raise children, they are better at jobs that deal with people. Jordan Peterson really goes into depth on this and you should watch it. Woman are unhappy in this world now and it's partly because of work and losing time with your children.

 

[Tumle]

What is a "no fault divorce"?

-------------------------------------------------

OP, this could have been a thread discussing recent legislation initiatives in UK.
Instead, it's not clear what it is about, those two persons on the picture?



Could you elaborate, given that we already have a GIANT gender incarceration gap:



At the end of the day, women need to commit a crime really grave (and no, something like stabbing your boyfriend doesn't count) to get prison sentence to begin with, yet people think it's "not equal" enough?

Which single individuals are to blame for the push by "...a growing movement, sponsored by a peer in the House of Lords...". to make the gender incarceration gap even larger?


Could you elaborate why this initiative is aimed at one gender, but not another? Or a single example of addressing systemic problems men have.

I’m not sure I’m following.. what does the incarceration gap between men, and woman have to do with the misinterpretation of what feminism is about?
Woman do less crime than men.. sure that’s a statistical fact.. just as it’s a fact that there are more poor people arrested for burglary than rich people..
But I still don’t see the connection to me saying that SOME woman misinterpret feminism.. feminism is about equality in the areas where they are missing.. only focusing on none violent woman is this instance is not equality since there are many more men incarcerated for none violent crimes, that would just as much benefit from a change like the one in the article..

 

[TannerDemoz]

Well, thanks for admitting that women have equal rights. The question is, why are feminists trying to close womens prisons but not mens prisons? Why are feminists trying to get child custody for incarcerated women but not men? If they succeed would you call it equality under the law?

Ffs. Why are 'SOME' feminists.

Don't let the actions of a select few, which in this instance I think are completely wrong and you are right to highlight, be used to fuel your own agenda.

 

[Acerac]

You can make any group look terrible if you cherrypick the opinions of their worst members.

The sad part is you don't need to cherrypick to see a pattern from people who joined this site in the more recent months.

 

[Tumle]

Ffs. Why are 'SOME' feminists.

Don't let the actions of a select few, which in this instance I think are completely wrong and you are right to highlight, be used to fuel your own agenda.

Yea..
It’s like “please don’t call me alt-right because of my right leaning views.. but you know what, those feminazis! Am I right?”
If you don’t liked to be grouped in with despicable people.. please stop doing the same.. it’s not that hard

 

[Tumle]

You can make any group look terrible if you cherrypick the opinions of their worst members.

The sad part is you don't need to cherrypick to see a pattern from people who joined this site in the more recent months.

Great job then of not grouping people..! I’d give you all my likes if I could..

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Don’t know what an MRA is.. but from your gif I’m certain it’s not that flattering..
But love the generalisation to everyone in the thread..

MRA = Men's Rights Activists. Dudes who believe that because women are no longer second-class citizens, they themselves are losing their rights...to treat others as inferior.

No generalization going on here. I been on the internet for a loooooooong time. This is only the Nth time I've seen how the truth comes out.

Wait for it:

Hey, guys let's all ignore the 99% of the good things feminist actually talk about and focus on 1% of the loony ones, amirite? That'll show those feminists that their house is built on a sham.

Guys?

Yeah, this is what I meant about MRAs pretending to discuss feminism in good faith.

If you mixed the photos of the most well-known feminists in academia with regular women, they wouldn't be able to identify even one, let alone any of the books they've written on the topic. But they think their opinions are, or should be as valid as scholarly research.

But you know what they say about opinions! Everyone has one, like they have....

What source would you like?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13666066

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...hy-womens-prisons-do-more-harm-than-good.html

Speaking of scholarly research, I have not been on GAF for that long. Only since 2016. I hadn't put folks on ignore, but this "source assassination" bull**** is how to be a terrible human being.

So I just put those people on ignore because its more effective than me chasing them around saying "**** you."

Like, I can source Washington Post while delivering a paper at Michigan State, or getting published out of the University of Auburn Press, but that's not good enough for some internet random? Seriously, they can **** right off. They are dead to me.

Does conservative gaf ever do anything more productive than **** about obama, resetera, liberals, feminists or reverse racism? ****’s getting old

Unfortunately, no. I was actually actively participating in the conservative community thread on ERA. It died, because all conservatism is now is misinformation and propaganda. I honestly wouldn't mind if there was a pivot toward theocracy, but then that would be antithetical to FREEDOM! At least they wouldn't be cherry-picking the Bible, but then, they'd have to be held accountable for their consumption of the sex industry or cheating, etc, and they are not interested in that!

Who says it isn't interesting? The downfall of this place is no doubt fascinating to watch, hence people like Samban clicking it.

It's like how you make a thread on feminism in the first place when you have zero interest in understanding feminism.

Yep. I addressed this in my first post, and I do so again above.

So when this place was thread after thread about white hating, man hating, Trump hating, Christian hating and Conservative hating, when everyone who didn't 100% agree was called a nazi, that was when things were not 'down falling'?

THERE IT IS FOLKS!

 

[llien]

Woman do less crime than men.. sure that’s a statistical fact

It actually depends on the type of the crime.
E.g. in "kids injured by a parents" parent is a woman in 70% of the cases. (victim is also much more likely to be a boy)
Women are likely "leading" as perpetrators of under reported crimes (like domestic violence).

I have an impression that you didn't read into this:

Prof. Starr's recent paper, "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases," looks closely at a large dataset of federal cases, and reveals some significant findings. After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted."

In other words: there is a disparity, men get much harsher punishments in the same circumstances.

So you have missed two points I'm making:

1) , wouldn't it be logical for the movement, which fights for equality, try to reduce the gap? By either softening punishment men get, or being stricter with women?
2) It isn't just some two girls out there, did you check the link? It is "...a growing movement, sponsored by a peer in the House of Lords...".

Wait for it:

Opponent blaming doesn't feel to add to the discussion.
It's hard to find anything in your last post, which is on topic.

You should man up and stop crying.

Is this (utterly sexist) sentence meant as some sort of sarcasm?

 

[Dunki]

MRA = Men's Rights Activists. Dudes who believe that because women are no longer second-class citizens, they themselves are losing their rights...to treat others as inferior.

This is what it is now stigmatized at thanks to you guessed correctly modern Feminism. In reality there are groups of men who fight for mens right like lachesis for example. Who fight for men shelter which are as rare as unicorns. Especially in terms of custody women have far more superior rights even though llien already pointed out that women "abuse" murder children far more often than men do. Especially their mothers.

So if you are against MRA you also should be against Feminism. I am personally are for equality and not some ideology i will blindly follow.

 

[llien]

Especially in terms of custody women have far more superior rights even though @llien already pointed out that women "abuse" murder children far more often than men do. Especially their mothers.

For clarity, as with all stats, care is to be applied. Women are more likely to cause serious injuries to (own) kids than men, but they are also spending more time with them.
You can't conclude that mothers are more violent than fathers from it (or vice versa).

 

[Dunki]

For clarity, as with all stats, care is to be applied. Women are more likely to cause serious injuries to (own) kids than men, but they are also spending more time with them.
You can't conclude that mothers are more violent than fathers from it (or vice versa).

Of course not. It was just a way to make my point more clear. You can not conclude that they are more violent only that statistically more children die by the hands of women/mothers

 

[Tumle]

It actually depends on the type of the crime.
E.g. in "kids injured by a parents" parent is a woman in 70% of the cases. (victim is also much more likely to be a boy)
Women are likely "leading" as perpetrators of under reported crimes (like domestic violence).

I have an impression that you didn't read into this:

Prof. Starr's recent paper, "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases," looks closely at a large dataset of federal cases, and reveals some significant findings. After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted."

In other words: there is a disparity, men get much harsher punishments in the same circumstances.

So you have missed two points I'm making:

1) , wouldn't it be logical for the movement, which fights for equality, try to reduce the gap? By either softening punishment men get, or being stricter with women?
2) It isn't just some two girls out there, did you check the link? It is "...a growing movement, sponsored by a peer in the House of Lords...".


Opponent blaming doesn't feel to add to the discussion.
It's hard to find anything in your last post, which is on topic.


Is this (utterly sexist) sentence meant as some sort of sarcasm?

Oh no I just misunderstood your position I’m sorry for that
I was on the train on my way to work

 

[Vicetrailia]

Hold up, this whataboutmen whataboutism is not necessary. The premise that women shouldnt be in prison is separate from gender sentencing gaps. If anything, you'd talk abut race sentencing gaps between women as a better broadening topic.

We have a ton of information, policy and narratives supporting reducing sentencing and rehabilitating prisoners. Men are the default topic about prison/sentencing reform.

But this topic is about women, and there's a 99% chance that no one here knew about mens statistical involvement in women getting locked up for violent crimes. To talk and advocate for that says nothing about their position on men in prison. It's a targeted subject, end the whataboutism.

 

[MazeHaze]

Neogaf is basically theredpill now

 

[Dunki]

Hold up, this whataboutmen whataboutism is not necessary. The premise that women shouldnt be in prison is separate from gender sentencing gaps. If anything, you'd talk abut race sentencing gaps between women as a better broadening topic.

We have a ton of information, policy and narratives supporting reducing sentencing and rehabilitating prisoners. Men are the default topic about prison/sentencing reform.

But this topic is about women, and there's a 99% chance that no one here knew about mens statistical involvement in women getting locked up for violent crimes. To talk and advocate for that says nothing about their position on men in prison. It's a targeted subject, end the whataboutism.

Wait so now women should never be in Prison? No matter what they are doing? If you break the law you should bear the consequences. period. There should not even be a debate here. And yes they should as severe as men prison times. You want equality this also means to get all the bad shit men have to endure and suffer from.

M MazeHaze Maybe just maybe you should watch the movie before judging this. The statement that modern Feminism has gone crazy and has nothing to do with equality anymore is not even that new or controversial at this point. There is a reason why less and less people consider themselves Feminists.

 

[TheGraykid]

What is a "no fault divorce"?

-------------------------------------------------

OP, this could have been a thread discussing recent legislation initiatives in UK.
Instead, it's not clear what it is about, those two persons on the picture?



Could you elaborate, given that we already have a GIANT gender incarceration gap:



At the end of the day, women need to commit a crime really grave (and no, something like stabbing your boyfriend doesn't count) to get prison sentence to begin with, yet people think it's "not equal" enough?

Which single individuals are to blame for the push by "...a growing movement, sponsored by a peer in the House of Lords...". to make the gender incarceration gap even larger?


Could you elaborate why this initiative is aimed at one gender, but not another? Or a single example of addressing systemic problems men have.

That BBC article was written more than ten years ago. This is an idea from a house of lords member that never appears to have gotten off the ground, and appears to be so I don't know why people of all stripes (including us) are discussing that as a serious piece of policy.

MRAs, as they tend to commonly organise, appear to be currently focused on shitting on feminism (or what they view as feminism) more than anything actually helping men.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Wait so now women should never be in Prison? No matter what they are doing? If you break the law you should bear the consequences. period. There should not even be a debate here. And yes they should as severe as men prison times. You want equality this also means to get all the bad shit men have to endure and suffer from.

Dunki, it's looking closer at why women are in prison. Men in prison is a whole different subject.

 

[Dunki]

That BBC article was written more than ten years ago. This is an idea from a house of lords member that never appears to have gotten off the ground, and appears to be so I don't know why people of all stripes (including us) are discussing that as a serious piece of policy.

MRAs, as they tend to commonly organise, appear to be currently focused on shitting on feminism (or what they view as feminism) more than anything actually helping men.

Same goes for Feminism shitting on MRA's. remember where feminists did everything to shut down a panel for men in which they just talk about their problems, getting advice etc. Again get rid of these kind of ideology and fight for equality instead.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Me on page one:

Buncha MRAs pretending to talk about feminism in good faith, huh?

Me:

(emphasis added the second time)

*topic has now shifted from feminism to taking a dump on women in general, i.e. "women kill their own babies!" while ignoring the role that men play in sexual assault (RAPE!), domestic violence, and ****ing MASS SHOOTINGS*

Me now:

I could smell the taint of MRA emanating from my monitor.

 

[Dunki]

Dunki, it's looking closer at why women are in prison. Men in prison is a whole different subject.

Allow of this here does not excuse shitty actions.

Any examination of the women who are in U.S. prisons reveals that the majority are nonviolent offenders with poor education, little employment experience and multiple histories of abuse from childhood through adulthood. Women are also more likely than men to have children who rely on them for support — 147,000 American children have mothers in prison.

Just because you are poor does not mean you will become a criminal there are people in this world who daily try to survive and they still do not become criminals. And yes I also think it is sad for the children but as an adult especially you need to take responsibility for your actions and if you do something criminal while having a child than I think you should not be the mother of this poor child anymore. And honestly I do not care if the mother suffers what I care about is the child.

Also as for domestic abuse Phoenix RISING Studies show that women hit more but man do the most damage.

http://www.aeesq.com/2017/03/23/women-initiate-domestic-violence/

And if this is some MRA site I do not know of

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

And then try to comprehend this here

Just another example. We are talking here about statistics not feelings by the way and statistics show that forever reason the murder of children ist mostly caused by mothers. Stop playing oppression olympics and start helping everyone equally who fucking needs help.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Allow of this here does not excuse shitty actions.

Just because you are poor does not mean you will become a criminal there are people in this world who daily try to survive and they still do not become criminals. And yes I also think it is sad for the children but as an adult especially you need to take responsibility for your actions and if you do something criminal while having a child than I think you should not be the mother of this poor child anymore. And honestly I do not care if thge mother suffers what I care about is the child.

This Dunki is good to chat about, and on topic.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Whelp, this topic is what I expected it to be. Like I said before, Neogaf is diet 4chan. Im genuinely surprised there hasn't been a mention of gamersgate in this topic yet.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

I hope people like that are just the minority of feminists.

Well feminists are just a tiny minority of women. Thankfully most women IRL-and I've worked with hundreds over the years across all walks of life, aren't like this.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Nowadays feminists wanna talk like they got something to say, but nothing comes out when they move their lips, just a bunch of gibberish, and motherfuckers act like they forgot about men.

 

[Dunki]

Nowadays feminists wanna talk like they got something to say, but nothing comes out when they move their lips, just a bunch of gibberish, and motherfuckers act like they forgot about men.

I do not think they forgot about men. Many of them also want superiority over men or they do not care one bit about them. Forgetting is something can do by mistake. This is way more vile and out of revenge IMO.

 

[llien]

That BBC article was written more than ten years ago. This is an idea from a house of lords member that never appears to have gotten off the ground...

That is... factually wrong:

2011: Women should not be sent to prison and should instead serve community sentences, according to a new report by the Women's Justice Taskforce.(BBC) (does WJT qualify as "feminists", by the way?)

2015: We must reduce the number of women in prisons (the guardian) Women were 7% of incarcerated at the moment that article was written

2016: Our prisons are full of women who shouldn’t be there. This has to stop. (the independent) It is factually wrong on "minor offences" (women do not go to prison for minor offences), but instead focuses on the effects on children.

Prison Reform Trust (UK)
The Prison Reform Trust has long called for a reduction in women’s imprisonment in the UK and a step change in how the criminal justice system responds to the needs of women…

And last, but, oh Dear, not least, UK's the President of the Supreme Court of the UK Brenda Hale (back in 2005):

https://www.longfordtrust.org/longf...nst-women-in-the-criminal-justice-system/]The Longford Trust[/url]

I am, as you might expect, a passionate believer in equality. But equality is a complicated subject. It is now well recognised that a misplaced conception of equality has resulted in some very unequal treatment for the women and girls who appear before the criminal justice system. Simply put, a male-ordered world has applied to them its perceptions of the appropriate treatment for male offenders. Equality means treating like cases alike. But that does not mean treating everyone in same way.

The system has much more difficulty in working out how to treat like offenders alike and, just as importantly, how to treat unlike offenders differently. More and more in recent years women and girls have been punished in the same ways as men and boys. There seems to be less understanding of the ways in which women’s lives are still very different from men’s.


It looks like mainstream push that we are discussing here (unfortunate how OP kicked it off)

Whelp, this topic is what I expected it to be. Like I said before

Thanks a lot for your valuable input.

 

[The Sane Psycho]

Buncha MRAs pretending to talk about feminism in good faith, huh?

Me:

You know, it's hard for me to take your smug attitude seriously when you used fucking Amir0x The Disgusting Pedophile as recommended reading in your Black History Month thread. The same vile piece of garbage who scammed GAF users out of thousands of dollars and spent it on drugs, was arrested with a needle sticking out of his arm, beat the shit out of his own mother because she wouldn't let him watch South Park, and was arrested for having child pornography on his hard drive. But hey, Amir0x is cool because he's an ally of social justice, right?

God, this place is such a trash heap lately

Then leave.

 

[appaws]

Unfortunately, no. I was actually actively participating in the conservative community thread on ERA. It died, because all conservatism is now is misinformation and propaganda.

Me too. Some "community." It ended up just being a thread for leftists to "wow, just wow" at the crazy people. It died because no actual conservatives participated.

Neogaf is basically theredpill now

Whelp, this topic is what I expected it to be. Like I said before, Neogaf is diet 4chan. Im genuinely surprised there hasn't been a mention of gamersgate in this topic yet.

I know, rite. People on both sides of issues can actually express opinions without being banned. How fascist.

 

[llien]

*topic has now shifted from feminism to taking a dump on women in general, i.e. "women kill their own babies!" while ignoring the role that men play in sexual assault (RAPE!), domestic violence, and ****ing MASS SHOOTINGS*

This topic is about "not treating women like men" in justice system.
Data doesn't show much gender difference in domestic violence victimization (both genders are also quite often the perpetrators, there is a gap, but not that big one)

We could talk about it, when you decide to descent from the high moral altitudes.

 

[TheGraykid]

Same goes for Feminism shitting on MRA's. remember where feminists did everything to shut down a panel for men in which they just talk about their problems, getting advice etc. Again get rid of these kind of ideology and fight for equality instead.

Hmmmm, I don't know of that situation and so I can't speak on it. The modern MRA appears to be an anti-feminism movement more than anything else, that is not true of feminism.

That is... factually wrong:

2011: Women should not be sent to prison and should instead serve community sentences, according to a new report by the Women's Justice Taskforce.(BBC) (does WJT qualify as "feminists", by the way?)

2015: We must reduce the number of women in prisons (the guardian) Women were 7% of incarcerated at the moment that article was written

2016: Our prisons are full of women who shouldn’t be there. This has to stop. (the independent) It is factually wrong on "minor offences" (women do not go to prison for minor offences), but instead focuses on the effects on children.

Prison Reform Trust (UK)
The Prison Reform Trust has long called for a reduction in women’s imprisonment in the UK and a step change in how the criminal justice system responds to the needs of women…

And last, but, oh Dear, not least, UK's the President of the Supreme Court of the UK Brenda Hale (back in 2005):

https://www.longfordtrust.org/longf...nst-women-in-the-criminal-justice-system/]The Longford Trust[/url]

I am, as you might expect, a passionate believer in equality. But equality is a complicated subject. It is now well recognised that a misplaced conception of equality has resulted in some very unequal treatment for the women and girls who appear before the criminal justice system. Simply put, a male-ordered world has applied to them its perceptions of the appropriate treatment for male offenders. Equality means treating like cases alike. But that does not mean treating everyone in same way.

The system has much more difficulty in working out how to treat like offenders alike and, just as importantly, how to treat unlike offenders differently. More and more in recent years women and girls have been punished in the same ways as men and boys. There seems to be less understanding of the ways in which women’s lives are still very different from men’s.


It looks like mainstream push that we are discussing here (unfortunate how OP kicked it off)



Thanks a lot for your valuable input.

A political idea getting off the ground (for me) implies political parties actually actively discussing it, not an online article every couple of years being written about something. In the UK, pretty much no form of justice reform (to my knowledge, please do bring it up if I'm wrong) appears to be being seriously looked at right now. Which is why I would say that this has never gotten off the ground. The pattern appears to be that every couple of years someone will write a not that popular article about this, and then no one would do anything about it. How can we say something has mainstream push when this is the case, and has been the case for years.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Me too. Some "community." It ended up just being a thread for leftists to "wow, just wow" at the crazy people. It died because no actual conservatives participated.





I know, rite. People on both sides of issues can actually express opinions without being banned. How fascist.

Was wondering how long it would take before "But Muh OpinuN!" Came to defend this thread.

Just because you have an opinion doesn't automatically make it a good one. It doesn't even make it viable. This thinly veiled thread is a complete waste for any kind of conversation and a good reason why threads from 2 days ago are constantly on the front page.

 

[JordanN]

Was wondering how long it would take before "But Muh OpinuN!" Came to defend this thread.

Just because you have an opinion doesn't automatically make it a good one. It doesn't even make it viable. This thinly veiled thread is a complete waste for any kind of conversation and a good reason why threads from 2 days ago are constantly on the front page.

You have to live in an echo chamber if you constantly berate opinions you don't like.

No one is doing each other a good favor if you prefer to shut down a topic instead of debate it. Someone said something wrong? Then why not explain in detail why they're wrong with well researched evidence rather than assume the world operates on one set of beliefs only? There's nothing alt-right or 4chanmini about discussing topics that don't conform to your emotions.

 

[appaws]

Was wondering how long it would take before "But Muh OpinuN!" Came to defend this thread.

Just because you have an opinion doesn't automatically make it a good one. It doesn't even make it viable. This thinly veiled thread is a complete waste for any kind of conversation and a good reason why threads from 2 days ago are constantly on the front page.

Yeah, I didn't say whether any opinions were good or viable. They may or may not be, that is the point of discussing things. I only called into question the ban hammer being used to enforce ideological conformity. Why bother having a "discussion" forum where any questioning of feminist orthodoxy is automatically labelled as "misogyny" and is bannable?

 

[Zog]

The modern MRA appears to be an anti-feminism movement more than anything else, that is not true of feminism.

You must have forgotten the feminist boogy man, the Patriarchy. Yes, the Patriarchy where all men have an advantage and are trying to hold women down.

 

[Dunki]

Hmmmm, I don't know of that situation and so I can't speak on it. The modern MRA appears to be an anti-feminism movement more than anything else, that is not true of feminism.



A political idea getting off the ground (for me) implies political parties actually actively discussing it, not an online article every couple of years being written about something. In the UK, pretty much no form of justice reform (to my knowledge, please do bring it up if I'm wrong) appears to be being seriously looked at right now. Which is why I would say that this has never gotten off the ground. The pattern appears to be that every couple of years someone will write a not that popular article about this, and then no one would do anything about it. How can we say something has mainstream push when this is the case, and has been the case for years.

Modern Feminism uses the stigma as a weapon to silence people who disagree with their opinion or ideology. For them it is the easiest way to make your opinion useless to other people. At least this is what they hope will happen.

 

[lachesis]

What is a "no fault divorce"?

No fault divorce, basically is that you don't need your spouse's fault to file in for divorce. A woman or man, don't need to stay in unhappy marriage - so it 's called "mutual termination" to end the marriage. Sounds about as fair as it gets - but in all honesty - the practice in my case was different. Used to be that one had to prove that the other side had something fundamentally wrong to break up the marriage, such as abuse of any sort, infidelity etc. That's called at-fault divorce.

I, obviously was against divorce itself. Even after I found out about ex's affair - I wanted to keep the family intact. Forgiving, therapy, counseling, anything at all. In my idea of marriage "death do apart" was something important when I signed up for marriage. Nobody's perfect, and as much as I may look like a perfect husband - I do also have downside.

To be honest, I had basis of going for a full blown at-fault divorce. I had evidence of her affair, and also she physically neglected and abandoned me. One time that she took up a job in SC for higher paying / title and took my child away and moved down to SC. She threatened me to file in for divorce if I had not agreed to let them go. She told me not to come down to visit, because it makes her feel uncomfortable even though I wanted to go down every 2 weeks at least to see my child. I ended up only visiting there for maybe 3-4 times during 10 month period (even though she somehow only remembers that I visited her once - and tells me that she could go to court using that fact, which is obviously a lie). She did come back after getting fired within a year, and a city girl like her just couldn't stay in SC - a lowly countryside for civilized one like her, so she came back home every few weeks herself to hang out in NYC, leaving the child with me - so I didn't really have to travel down there much to begin with. Plus, even before she told me her intention of divorce - she had been rejecting me in bed for almost a year. Yes, technically if your spouse refuses and neglects you in bed for over a year - it's something called unusual cruelty and can be used as at-fault divorce.

I did talk through about this with my lawyer and while she was very sympathetic - she suggested to settle rather than going full blown law-suit, because even though I am technically right - it might cost me more and also may not get the result. My objective, was to stop the divorce at all cost - but what's the point of going on full blown lawsuit for something that I didn't want to being with - so that's why I decided to accept and go for settlement route.

But thing about no fault divorce is, that mutual agreement is not what it seems. In my case, it was more of a threat from her to get the better deal out of me, of alimony and child support, as well as marital asset distribution. I make about $150k, and she was making about 130k. She's got 2 undergraduate degrees and 1 graduate degree. She holds much higher position at her work (Director) - while I've been at stable position for past 21 years at current job (my responsibility went up, and so did my paycheck - but not the title - that all of the people at work are on equal footing) - in my point of view, we are almost equal footing on earnings, especially after considering her potential earning in the career that I helped tremendously to develop, as well as the degree that she achieved at NYU with 100% of my backing - but she was asking for $1200 for child support, at 50/50 custody to boot - and saying things like she's willing to not file for alimony is something I should totally be grateful to her. She even kept secret of her promotion at work and raise, so I had to go through the whole financial evaluation thing all over again, which obviously cost me the money because every second you talk to your lawyer - it's $$$$ in the billing.

Things changed, though - that as I was more present parent for the child - once divorce was in motion - I started to record every thing, especially when she goes out in the morning and when she comes back at night. (leaves around 7:45a, comes home around 10p, sometimes so late that my child is already asleep), and how much she drank, how frequent she took the business trips (2-3 times per month) and how long, etc - and since I knew that I am more at-home parent, I wanted to file in for sole physical custody. She was vehemently against of it, naturally - but when she realized that the evaluation of court via professionals after interviewing everyone in the family might not work out so well if we couldn't agree on the custody - thats where she stepped back to 50/50, $500 child support and no alimony, and 50/50 distribution of the sales of the house. I still have that detailed record for a year - in case I need to prove it again. (She's not aware of its existence)

For me, it was either to agree on at that point - or risk everything that I have built over 15 years. Already in 4 years of that sheer hell, I gave in and agreed finally. I did my best, and I have no regrets.

So as you can see - it's nothing that I wanted to happen - so mutual agreement is something of a myth in no fault divorce. It's just that anyone can divorce anyone even though nothing wrong in the marriage. (Eat, Pray, Love comes into mind - nobody really mentions what the ex husband had to go through at all - even though I know he's now married to another one and have few kids, and rejects to talk about his previous divorce) All you have to say is "I am not happy in the marriage, and I want to end it" - one sided. That's all. I agree with the idea that nobody should be in unhappy marriage - but no fault makes it too easy for one side to end the marriage. I just wish there's more enforcement from society to keep the families intact - thick and thin - because I do believe it's the fundamentally single most important unit upholding the society, nation and world - and it's the devaluation of family as a unit - I find feminism too hard to accept at this point, especially going through the motion myself.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Yeah, I didn't say whether any opinions were good or viable. They may or may not be, that is the point of discussing things. I only called into question the ban hammer being used to enforce ideological conformity. Why bother having a "discussion" forum where any questioning of feminist orthodoxy is automatically labelled as "misogyny" and is bannable?

Show me a message where someone here calls for a ban.

Calling a thread for being shit is not calling for a ban. It's an opinion in itself. This is a non issue. Who cares? This whole topic was obviously an excuse to go "Feminist are bad!"

But hey, I guess we can make topics about anything if we are going that route.

 

[Zog]

I have never seen No Fault Divorce as mutual termination because it doesn't require agreement. I see it as unilateral divorce and to make matters worse, the first to file is usually the one with the upper hand. The first to file is usually the one wanting the unilateral divorce.

 

[TrainedRage]

Why do all these people who call the Gaf community out leave if they hate this place so much? Just a thought, no one is forcing you to be here.

 

[llien]

A political idea getting off the ground (for me) implies political parties actually actively discussing it, not an online article every couple of years being written about something.

We quickly went from "no group is pushing for it" to "OK, government doesn't".

Which is why I would say that this has never gotten off the ground.

In the context of this thread it is enough for feminist groups to be pushing for it (which seems to be the fact).

As for publication talks turning into legislation, UK's President of the Supreme Court stance cannot be dismissed as "just someone out there thinks so".

And, wait for it:

Judges told: 'be more lenient to women criminals'
That's 2010. (the telegraph)

Which hints to one of these:
1) Merely raising the issue has consequences
2) or maybe that's something pushed by Hale or other high ranked women

Either way, offtopic here.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Im genuinely surprised there hasn't been a mention of gamersgate in this topic yet.

Why would people be talking about an online store for video games in this thread?

It's kind of funny you made that mistake though, because you're be no means the first to do this, and it resulted in them getting harassed and threatened a few years ago.

 

[JordanN]

Why do all these people who call the Gaf community out leave if they hate this place so much? Just a thought, no one is forcing you to be here.

It wouldn't be so bad if they did at least debate or offer a counter point to the topics they feel slighted by.

But if they're just here to stir up outrage or act as elite moral visionaries, they make themselves looked ostracized.

 

[TheGraykid]

You must have forgotten the feminist boogy man, the Patriarchy. Yes, the Patriarchy where all men have an advantage and are trying to hold women down.

If you want to talk about Patriarchy as a term, can we do so in a way which doesn't present a complete strawman of the term? And I don't see how being against patriarchy is comparable to making a movement that is completely against a female equal rights movement.

Modern Feminism uses the stigma as a weapon to silence people who disagree with their opinion or ideology. For them it is the easiest way to make your opinion useless to other people. At least this is what they hope will happen.

I think that's off and very presumptive of a group that, despite your thoughts, is not a hive mind.

We quickly went from "no group is pushing for it" to "OK, government doesn't".


In the context of this thread it is enough for feminist groups to be pushing for it (which seems to be the fact).

As for publication talks turning into legislation, UK's President of the Supreme Court stance cannot be dismissed as "just someone out there thinks so".

And, wait for it:

Judges told: 'be more lenient to women criminals'
That's 2010. (the telegraph)

Which hints to one of these:
1) Merely raising the issue has consequences
2) or maybe that's something pushed by Hale or other high ranked women

Either way, offtopic here.

Come one, literally didn't say "no group is pushing it." . Simply said it isn't getting off the ground, which it isn't. Prison reform (in general) has way more support and articles being written about it and I wouldn't call that idea off the ground in the UK. Using the telegraph for news isn't a good idea, very clickbaity. I would recommend reading the actual document that they mention here. It's an informational document on literally every traditionally thought of as disadvantaged group stating situations where they may be disadvantaged and saying that you should take note of that.

I don't think it's wild to say that this thread probably is the biggest single occasion that this idea of "letting women out of prison" has bee discussed all year. That is my point.

 

[TheMikado]

I have never seen No Fault Divorce as mutual termination because it doesn't require agreement. I see it as unilateral divorce and to make matters worse, the first to file is usually the one with the upper hand. The first to file is usually the one wanting the unilateral divorce.

That's not how that works.......

 

[TheMikado]

Someone explain what the issue is.

1) It looks like you have some shithead writers thinking women shouldn't be incarcerated by using the disproportionate ways it affects women while the very small and costly population as their argument to eliminate it entirely.

2) It looks like the prison system needs to be re-accessed over all.

3) You're always going to have people with dumb opinions. Why does every dumb opinion get a thread and used as evidence about the thinking of a larger group. I'm not even really annoyed by the fools who wrote the article or have the whiteboard. People are going to have those opinions regardless.

I'm more annoyed by the foolish actions of someone posting this as evidence of something more than the writer of the articles and the people holding up the stupid whiteboard.

 

[appaws]

Show me a message where someone here calls for a ban.

Calling a thread for being shit is not calling for a ban. It's an opinion in itself. This is a non issue. Who cares? This whole topic was obviously an excuse to go "Feminist are bad!"

But hey, I guess we can make topics about anything if we are going that route.

It's not that....it is that they were comparing it negatively to the past...when ideological bans were the norm and this thread would not have been possible. Saying that this place has gone down, or is now like 4chan or something...seems to me to be a wistful look back at the ideological conformity that used to predominate. And if someone really feels that way, there is a very well populated place where they can go to join in the latest agreement on this or that.

As to your last point....HELL YEAH! That's the idea.