Support NeoGAF

[Cato]

That's fair. We'll have to see what Sony does with the ps5. Personally i don't think there is any way they move forward without BC, but stranger things have happened.

You sure? I would not be surprised that "buy it again and you can play earlier console versions you might already own" be the case.
That has pretty much always been the norm, you buy the game anew if you want to play it under an emulator.

Xbox One and its BC were, as far I understand, an exception where you can play games you already own without buying them again !?!...
I consider that an outlier and want to see more repeats of that situation before I upgrade it from a singular occurrence business anomality.
(Good on MS for that, and congrats to Xboxen owners for this.)

I wish sony would do something similar to bc on xbox but I have exactly zero expectation that would happen. :-(
It anything, I would expect sony to implement a system where I first re-buy the game,again, then I pay-per-hour to play it.
Stockholm syndrome and everything but I like the exclusives.

 

[bitbydeath]

Seeing how he said it was inaccurrate and gave his reasons as to why that vould be since he knows it has sold more than that then yeah id rather go by what he says instead of numbers that don't even have all the info.

EA knows, doesn't mean the numbers they gave out don't have a piece missing. Could easily see em not even include x and pro. Hell maybe even countries were left off. The question is more about how it's inaccurate not if it is or isnt

If it’s inaccurate I’m sure MS will call it out. Til then it is the most accurate data we have.

EA don’t just do these estimates for fun, they are professionally collated and reported upon unlike Zhuge and VGChartz.

 

[Malcolm9]

Wish we got pro and X numbers. I have a pro and love it but it's a shallow comparison to the X.

If they both do well though it means we may get them next gen as well. If that happens, I'll just wait for the refresh myself.

It really isnt though, I own both but my Pro is still my main machine. Having played both versions of most games the difference isn't really as big as some make out. Certain titles stand out more with added textures or better AF etc but calling the Pro shallow in comparison is harsh.

I'm mainly using the X to play enhanced games like Red Dead Redemption. In regards to BC for the PS5, Sony would be nuts not to implement it, especially with the PS4 not being complicated like the PS2 & PS3 were.

 

[TBiddy]

Hmmmm.....I take that as EA is probably right considering I wouldn't want to release that 29.4 million figure either if I was MS. They are 4 years in and hadn't sold 30 million consoles. Considering they sold over 80 million last gen, I see why they are tracking other measurements for their success.

Zhuge has been spot on for years with his numbers. Of course he's correct.

 

[Orta]

Ouch. Quite a tumble from the 360 days.

Guess MS only has itself to blame following the shambolic XBO pre-launch nonsense.

Can easily see the Switch overtaking it.

 

[GoldenEye98]

Microsoft says EA's estimates are inaccurate:
https://mspoweruser.com/ea-suggests...million-xbox-one-consoles-by-the-end-of-2017/

Update: Microsoft has responded to these estimated sales figures in a statement sent to Variety. According to a spokesperson from the company, these numbers are inaccurate, though they did not specify by what margins or how they were inaccurate.

“The projections are inaccurate,” a spokesperson told Variety. “Regardless, we are focused on delivering amazing gaming experiences to players on all devices and engagement is our measure of progress. We just announced a record start to the year with Xbox Live monthly active users up 13% to 59 million.”

 

[Soul of Cinder]

Microsoft says EA's estimates are inaccurate:
https://mspoweruser.com/ea-suggests...million-xbox-one-consoles-by-the-end-of-2017/

bitbydeath lol something something professionally collated

 

[Panajev2001a]

You sure? I would not be surprised that "buy it again and you can play earlier console versions you might already own" be the case.
That has pretty much always been the norm, you buy the game anew if you want to play it under an emulator.

Xbox One and its BC were, as far I understand, an exception where you can play games you already own without buying them again !?!...
I consider that an outlier and want to see more repeats of that situation before I upgrade it from a singular occurrence business anomality.
(Good on MS for that, and congrats to Xboxen owners for this.)

I wish sony would do something similar to bc on xbox but I have exactly zero expectation that would happen. :-(
It anything, I would expect sony to implement a system where I first re-buy the game,again, then I pay-per-hour to play it.
Stockholm syndrome and everything but I like the exclusives.

I won’t put all my eggs in the BC basket for Sony until I see. It seems like it’s too obvious to have it, but you never know. Sony might end up opting for no PS4 compatability with PS5 because of security reasons.

The expectations of digital content in still similar machines are that content carries over and Sony knows that.

Also, about Xbox One being the exception... you are forgetting Xbox 360 and the OG Xbox BC (albeit limited) and you are forgetting PS1 BC support in PS2, PS1 and PS2 BC support in PS3, PS1 BC support in PSP, PS1 and PSP support in PS Vita... PS4 not having BC for PS3/PS2/PS1 was more of an outlier than Xbox One BC support is IMHO.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Microsoft says EA's estimates are inaccurate:
https://mspoweruser.com/ea-suggests...million-xbox-one-consoles-by-the-end-of-2017/

Cool, cannot wait for MS to publish their numbers .

 

[demigod]

Cool, cannot wait for MS to publish their numbers .

Joke? All you're getting are MAU's.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Joke? All you're getting are MAU's.

It was a bit in jest yeah .

 

[bitbydeath]

bitbydeath lol something something professionally collated

Kudos, you were right. I’ll get the OP updated.

 

[Allandor]

Didn't last numbers of Sony "not" include the "sold through" statement. If I remember the last numbers correct they said "shipped" which is a small difference on a worldwide marked.
Can't believe xbox should be at 29m, than they would not have sold anything last and this year.

If it’s inaccurate I’m sure MS will call it out. Til then it is the most accurate data we have.

EA don’t just do these estimates for fun, they are professionally collated and reported upon unlike Zhuge and VGChartz.

MS won't comment this. At least not with the exact numbers.
Else everyone could create some rumor to get an official statement.

 

[AgentP]

Cool, cannot wait for MS to publish their numbers .

30 millions skeletons killed.

 

[bitbydeath]

MS won't comment this. At least not with the exact numbers.
Else everyone could create some rumor to get an official statement.

I wasn’t expecting MS to divulge the numbers, they had debunked it though. I updated the OP and requested a title change to reflect the update.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

They're the same thing.

EDIT: Bishop confirmed the numbers are correct on the other site.

Actually Zhuge already confirmed they're not.

The Last EA report had the Xbox One at 25.6. This one at 29.4.

Which isn't possible given that according to NPD, the Xbox One sold 4 million plus in the US alone in 2017. So how could they have only sold 3.8?

 

[GoldenEye98]

My guess is "install base" is EA estimating how many functional units there are in households (ie what we can sell too). For instance a percentage might be subtracted to take into account broken consoles...also used consoles that are sitting on a store shelf.

 

[Jigsaah]

I dunno. If there's any bad press about this, its Microsoft's own doing. Sure they can report whatever they want, I even agree that things like Attach rate and engagement is more important than console sales, but this doesn't even become a worthy story to talk about if Microsoft is just up front about everything.

Instead, you have youtubers (and apparently GAF) essentially speculating or creating their own narrative. Like "Ouch, man thats gotta sting", or "Wow it's lower than I thought".

This whole court is out of order. *Bangs Gavel*

Calm down people.

 

[Classicblunder]

"Projections are inaccurate" but don't provide real numbers could mean it's off by .1%. Kinda pointless to say and they didn't even say is the projection was over or under.

 

[Halo0629]

What a fall from grace for ms, but this is also good for ms because they will be better next gen and won't commit the same mistakes they did this gen. It will be a real battle next gen when both sony and ms will be at their best.

 

[Codes 208]

30 millions skeletons killed.

I want to know how many skeletons were kill in SoT, who needs sales numbers?

I wonder if GoW sold faster than any Rare games?

Ok we get it, you hate SoT. I dont give two shits for it either but come on, at this point its just beating a dead horse...skeleton....

fuck

 

[thelastword]

Saying an estimate is wrong without providing any quantifiable data is all kinds of "accept my bluff"...."trust me aight" wink wink! ........So then, EA's estimates stand, besides, EA never gave a breakdown, that was extrapolated from their total figure, and MS's figure only came out because Sony has been forthcoming with theirs, so people did a little subtraction.

If MS says/suggests their number is too low in the estimate, then Sony's numbers are too low also, there's no running away from the reality of the sales divide here. Either way you slice it, their response is the very reason we know they're not releasing figures because it really pales against the competition. I think the projection for Nintendo is probably what stung MS most about that article. That console only launched last year and it's on track to do 30 million this year, all on account of stellar software...


On the flip, I really don't understand why anyone should take a blank statement from an MS spokeperson as proof of anything here. The PR guy said nothing concrete, he gave no numbers or quantifiable data. I assumed he meant that MS is doing better than what's calculated, yet, from his shrouded words and vague bits, I could suggest that he meant the breakdown in the article is too high for MS also....... So unnhhh!, perhaps he means that MS only sold 25 million so far, or, perhaps he means, MS sold 29.8 million instead of 29.4..... You see, MS is just being silly about all of this, if you want people to know your real numbers just publish it and that ends that, just like how the other two manufacturers have been doing all those years...

 

[godhandiscen]

I was there with Microsoft on the Xbox One and Xbox 360, but they just blew it this gen.

 

[BryanGT]

It really isnt though, I own both but my Pro is still my main machine. Having played both versions of most games the difference isn't really as big as some make out. Certain titles stand out more with added textures or better AF etc but calling the Pro shallow in comparison is harsh.

I'm mainly using the X to play enhanced games like Red Dead Redemption. In regards to BC for the PS5, Sony would be nuts not to implement it, especially with the PS4 not being complicated like the PS2 & PS3 were.

For cross platform games I always go for the X. The Pro is great and I love those exclusives, but it sounds like a 737 when I pause God of War, and it doesn't keep up with the X at 4K.

 

[Tarkus98]

For cross platform games I always go for the X. The Pro is great and I love those exclusives, but it sounds like a 737 when I pause God of War, and it doesn't keep up with the X at 4K.

The thing is that the Pro was a very sensible mid gen update. Kind of what I would expect from a platform holder that is selling their console very well. It was a safe bet. Microsoft however engineered the shit out of the X and delivered an incredible console for the price because I believe they had something to prove. I believe going into next gen both companies should be firing on all cylinders. MS will take care of the first party games and will hopefully deliver a clear concise message that they are all about games again. Sony will hopefully take care of backwards compatibility and both companies hit the ground running.
Should work out really well for us gamers me thinks.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The thing is that the Pro was a very sensible mid gen update. Kind of what I would expect from a platform holder that is selling their console very well. It was a safe bet. Microsoft however engineered the shit out of the X and delivered an incredible console for the price because I believe they had something to prove. I believe going into next gen both companies should be firing on all cylinders. MS will take care of the first party games and will hopefully deliver a clear concise message that they are all about games again. Sony will hopefully take care of backwards compatibility and both companies hit the ground running.
Should work out really well for us gamers me thinks.

I think both Sony and MS should be very happy of how their mid generation updates turned out (I say it as someone who does not really want mid generation updates too ), but I do not think that with a retail price increase of $100 over the price Pro was targeted at (so kind of like an increase of almost $100 to the total Bill of Materials or BoM for the device) and 12 more months of development over the Pro that Xbox One X was “super mega engineering” vs “just plausible” upgrade. What does the console have over the Pro that surpasses expectations considering the extra year of development and a $100 higher price?

(Hint: why do people react to iPhone X features and all with a “well it IS $1,000” )

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Till April 2018 ~36-37 mil. WW is a good ballpark for Xbone. PS4 outselling Xbone for more than 2:1 ratio WW for quite some time.

 

[womfalcs3]

Wait... I thought Microsoft was saying theyre going to sell 1 billion Xbox Ones?

https://www.vg247.com/2013/05/24/xb...on-lifetime-sales-100-million-xbox-360-units/

 

[Allandor]

Wait... I thought Microsoft was saying theyre going to sell 1 billion Xbox Ones?

https://www.vg247.com/2013/05/24/xb...on-lifetime-sales-100-million-xbox-360-units/

still possible. It just depends on which products are called "xbox one" .
But this is just marketing and nothing else. They just hoped that the markets would be similar to the smartphone markets, which is not the case.

 

[DasPenguin]

What a fall from grace for ms, but this is also good for ms because they will be better next gen and won't commit the same mistakes they did this gen. It will be a real battle next gen when both sony and ms will be at their best.

I don’t think there’s a battle to be had. 360 was the perfect storm. Online play, PS coming year late with an expensive machine etc. All Sony has to do is make a decent machine that will run the favourite 3rd party games and they have Europe and Asia in the bag. US is the only fight left and that won’t sway the numbers enough.

Switch numbers are the most shocking to me. I think the machine is great, but I doubt it sells at all here in Finland. The price with a game is almost 400 euros. That’s a preposterous price for a handheld. Happy to see it doing well but Nintendo prices are insane, at least around here.

 

[WaterAstro]

"These numbers are inaccurate! uuhhhh look at that alien ship behind you!" ~runs~

If they're going to call out something as inaccurate, then they need to prove it.

 

[phil_t98]

Saying an estimate is wrong without providing any quantifiable data is all kinds of "accept my bluff"...."trust me aight" wink wink! ........So then, EA's estimates stand, besides, EA never gave a breakdown, that was extrapolated from their total figure, and MS's figure only came out because Sony has been forthcoming with theirs, so people did a little subtraction.

If MS says/suggests their number is too low in the estimate, then Sony's numbers are too low also, there's no running away from the reality of the sales divide here. Either way you slice it, their response is the very reason we know they're not releasing figures because it really pales against the competition. I think the projection for Nintendo is probably what stung MS most about that article. That console only launched last year and it's on track to do 30 million this year, all on account of stellar software...


On the flip, I really don't understand why anyone should take a blank statement from an MS spokeperson as proof of anything here. The PR guy said nothing concrete, he gave no numbers or quantifiable data. I assumed he meant that MS is doing better than what's calculated, yet, from his shrouded words and vague bits, I could suggest that he meant the breakdown in the article is too high for MS also....... So unnhhh!, perhaps he means that MS only sold 25 million so far, or, perhaps he means, MS sold 29.8 million instead of 29.4..... You see, MS is just being silly about all of this, if you want people to know your real numbers just publish it and that ends that, just like how the other two manufacturers have been doing all those years...

how do you get that when Sony acutaly release the Data, you cant twist it all your way. Microsoft have said EA's data is wrong for them sony hasn't.

Now yes moicrosoft haven't said how it is wrong, EA's could be higher or lower but nobody knows not even you

 

[Aces&Eights]

lol, we will never get accurate numbers. When one side is losing they play the obtuse/P.R. card and release muddy figures. Sony, MS, Nintendo, whomever. We will always have to speculate on what the losing team has sold.

 

[Calibos]

MS PR is going to MS PR things...

I never understand why MS runs from their numbers.

Even thought they are significantly lower than Sony and now Nintendo's future projections, they are still great. The Xbox division made a shit ton of money last year, the ecosystem is healthy and the MAU of Xbox Live is up 13%? to 59 million or so. They are rumored to be building a studio, making new IPs and developing new sequels along with buying marketing rights and limited exclusives. Why not just post the actual numbers too? I think at this point, all the trash talking and degrading of the Xbox and it's brand has been done. I think they always make things worse by playing the "game" and not just putting it out there.

 

[GoldenEye98]

MS PR is going to MS PR things...

I never understand why MS runs from their numbers.

Even thought they are significantly lower than Sony and now Nintendo's future projections, they are still great. The Xbox division made a shit ton of money last year, the ecosystem is healthy and the MAU of Xbox Live is up 13%? to 59 million or so. They are rumored to be building a studio, making new IPs and developing new sequels along with buying marketing rights and limited exclusives. Why not just post the actual numbers too? I think at this point, all the trash talking and degrading of the Xbox and it's brand has been done. I think they always make things worse by playing the "game" and not just putting it out there.

I think some of it is that they see themselves as a services company now.

 

[Pallas]

One thing is for sure. PS4 is in the lead. There is another thing that equally telling. Xbox's overall contribution to Microsoft's revenue. They are making boat loads of cash in the billions despite all this negative press and biased media.

I'm curious about if you compare the 2 systems based on revenue made within the same time period, would it be on a more level playing field. If that's is the case, then that is really telling about Sony's attachment and engagement rate. In the age of GASS this may end up being the more telling measurement of success. While, at least in the beginning of a console generation, both Sony and Microsoft tend to lose money on all console sales for the first couple of years.

Basically, it's not so cut n dry anymore.

I really don’t care much about console sales but after skimming through the posts out of curiosity, yours kind of stuck out. It’s a viable metric to rate success, especially considering the Play Anywhere program that they have built and backwards compatibility enabled.

 

[TimFL]

These number dodging MS PR responses are beyond cringeworthy.

 

[CJY]

Damn I bet the ps4 will reach 130 to 150 million units sold in its 10 year life cycle like the ps2 congratulations sony you did it again

I would really love to see that. Can easily happen if they can get the price down to the mythical $€199

 

[thelastword]

lol, we will never get accurate numbers. When one side is losing they play the obtuse/P.R. card and release muddy figures. Sony, MS, Nintendo, whomever. We will always have to speculate on what the losing team has sold.

Sony always gave numbers, they did for PS3, they did for PS2, they did for PS1 and and they did for PSP and Vita. They even gave numbers for Eyetoy, PS VR, Move and Pocketstation.

I think Nintendo has been very forthcoming with their numbers as well, perhaps a Nintendo follower can chime in here, but I knew how many NES, SNES, N64, GC and Wii were sold. I knew how many Wii u, which was not as successful as the original Wii.....So no company has hidden their data outright before.......ummmm!..... till now...

 

[CJY]

EA: Xbox one installed based is x
MS: installed based isn’t x
Everybody: then what is it?
MS: secret.

 

[JP]

I don't necessarily think that console sales have necessarily been a bad for Microsoft, even if they're poor in comparison to the other two. Obviously all three would love to sell the most this generation but they could well be meeting all their targets and making wonderful profits from what are pretty high sales.

It's not always as simple selling the most each generation and all three companies can be very happy at the end of a generation and I would suggest that most times, not every time, all three actually are.

Admittedly their first party output doesn't really hold any interest to me any more but I think they've found something that's more important and quite possibly more valuable to them and that's their backwards compatibility. I've said it before but if they went into E3 and announced they weren't going to make any more games but instead would move exclusively to backwards compatibility then I would genuinely be nothing but happy because that sort of engineering is something that they are masters at.

I'd love to get Xbox One X enhancements for all their older games and I really wouldn't miss the lack of new content at all.

 

[NickFire]

Until they give their own numbers I will consider their pr as an admission that the numbers are essentially true.

 

[Jigsaah]

The thing is that the Pro was a very sensible mid gen update. Kind of what I would expect from a platform holder that is selling their console very well. It was a safe bet. Microsoft however engineered the shit out of the X and delivered an incredible console for the price because I believe they had something to prove. I believe going into next gen both companies should be firing on all cylinders. MS will take care of the first party games and will hopefully deliver a clear concise message that they are all about games again. Sony will hopefully take care of backwards compatibility and both companies hit the ground running.
Should work out really well for us gamers me thinks.

Good point about Microsoft proving themselves. It's also worth mentioning the reason why they did this. Under no circumstances did they put this console out to "catch up" to Sony in sales. How could that even be possible being outsold 2 to 1 at last estimation and releasing a crazy powerful (although $500) console with no first party exclusives at launch (much like the Pro). Microsoft did this to change the narrative regarding power and performance. One could argue that the 360 won last generation because of two things, performance (not power) and price. Exclusives, while important...wasn't a major factor I think. With this generation, Xbox One lost in BOTH categories. Add in a little PR nightmare courtesy of Don Mattrick and a sprinkling of Sony Bosses taunting the game sharing "feature" (or lack thereof) and its no wonder Microsoft had to do this.

Good on them for doing it, because I love my X.

 

[xStoyax]

if they went into E3 and announced they weren't going to make any more games but instead would move exclusively to backwards compatibility then I would genuinely be nothing but happy because that sort of engineering is something that they are masters at.

I'd love to get Xbox One X enhancements for all their older games and I really wouldn't miss the lack of new content at all.

You would be the only one.

 

[Chaostar]

One thing is for sure. PS4 is in the lead. There is another thing that equally telling. Xbox's overall contribution to Microsoft's revenue. They are making boat loads of cash in the billions despite all this negative press and biased media.

I'm curious about if you compare the 2 systems based on revenue made within the same time period, would it be on a more level playing field. If that's is the case, then that is really telling about Sony's attachment and engagement rate. In the age of GASS this may end up being the more telling measurement of success. While, at least in the beginning of a console generation, both Sony and Microsoft tend to lose money on all console sales for the first couple of years.

Basically, it's not so cut n dry anymore.

Is this true though? Microsoft as a whole are making billions, yes, but they hide Xbox division profit/loss behind figures from many other products and services. If you have the exact numbers on just the Xbox division revenue and profit then please do share.

As for your follow up question I think it's safer to assume that Playstation generates more revenue than Xbox at the moment just based on overall game sales on each platform (Playstation consistently outselling Xbox on major 3rd party releases) and the PS+ subs hitting a total that is almost the same as the entire Xbox install base. Where would MS be generating the extra revenue to gain an equal footing in your scenario?

Also, both Sony and MS said they were making a small profit on every console sold since day 1, however the Xbox One seems to be constantly discounted heavily to remain competitive so we don't even know if that's true any more.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

EA: Xbox one installed based is x
MS: installed based isn’t x
Everybody: then what is it?
MS: secret.

Sad stuff.

It's not as if you can't see how they huffed and puffed when the focus was on Xbox 360.

Yet the reality was that Nintendo made more money and sold more. Plus, Sony eroded the 360's head start and caught up after all their self-inflicted mistakes. Now with the PS4, you're basically like:

It's time to go back to the drawing board or give up.

 

[Jigsaah]

Is this true though? Microsoft as a whole are making billions, yes, but they hide Xbox division profit/loss behind figures from many other products and services. If you have the exact numbers on just the Xbox division revenue and profit then please do share.

As for your follow up question I think it's safer to assume that Playstation generates more revenue than Xbox at the moment just based on overall game sales on each platform (Playstation consistently outselling Xbox on major 3rd party releases) and the PS+ subs hitting a total that is almost the same as the entire Xbox install base. Where would MS be generating the extra revenue to gain an equal footing in your scenario?

Also, both Sony and MS said they were making a small profit on every console sold since day 1, however the Xbox One seems to be constantly discounted heavily to remain competitive so we don't even know if that's true any more.

They just recently announced what Xbox's contribution to the overall revenue of Microsoft is. So yes, it's true.

AS for the comment about the consoles, if that's true then good for them I suppose. It still perpetuates the argument that console sales are less of a measure of success than engagement/attach rate.

 

[Chaostar]

They just recently announced what Xbox's contribution to the overall revenue of Microsoft is. So yes, it's true.

Did they? I'm not saying you're lying, I believe that you believe it's true, I just need proof. Do you have a link if it's not too much trouble, thanks.

AS for the comment about the consoles, if that's true then good for them I suppose. It still perpetuates the argument that console sales are less of a measure of success than engagement/attach rate.

How exactly? A platform is naturally going to have a lower attach/engagement rate the more consoles that are sold and it's something that's hard to gauge without detailed data anyway. Also, for example, 50% of 80m >>> 70% of 30m so even a higher percentage of sales per user can result in lower profits given the discrepancy in install base. However, we can measure quite accurately how successful a console is with sales and it's still an important indicator, whether MS would have you believe it or not. Honestly though, I just want to see the figures/info you have please.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Good point about Microsoft proving themselves. It's also worth mentioning the reason why they did this. Under no circumstances did they put this console out to "catch up" to Sony in sales. How could that even be possible being outsold 2 to 1 at last estimation and releasing a crazy powerful (although $500) console with no first party exclusives at launch (much like the Pro). Microsoft did this to change the narrative regarding power and performance. One could argue that the 360 won last generation because of two things, performance (not power) and price. Exclusives, while important...wasn't a major factor I think. With this generation, Xbox One lost in BOTH categories. Add in a little PR nightmare courtesy of Don Mattrick and a sprinkling of Sony Bosses taunting the game sharing "feature" (or lack thereof) and its no wonder Microsoft had to do this.

Good on them for doing it, because I love my X.

MS did not win last generation, Nintendo did. MS ended up neck and next with Sony after a 1.5 years headstart, but yes trying to change the narrative is likely one of the various things they went for with Xbox One X (many others essentially related to taking pressure off price reducing their previous console and get a lot better margins from consumers willing to pay for a premium console) IMHO.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

MS did not win last generation, Nintendo did. MS ended up neck and next with Sony after a 1.5 years headstart, but yes trying to change the narrative is likely one of the various things they went for with Xbox One X (many others essentially related to taking pressure off price reducing their previous console and get a lot better margins from consumers willing to pay for a premium console) IMHO.

Wut the Wii U bombed so hard the Switch had to be made. Is last gen this gen or are we in generation limbo? 3DS sales? Hardware wise the Wii did sell really well but not third party wise maybe that is what he meant???