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[FranXico]

Ok, nothing to see here, folks.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Lo

I never even hear that name... Jeapoardy lol

It could be the name of a console

Lol you know what I meant

Jeopardyyyy

ARCTURUS AKA JEAPOARDY CONFIRMED

 

[Deto]

This is the thing a lot of people don't look at, Halo & Gears target 60FPS, Uncharted & TLoU target 30FPS. The reason being 2 are multiplayer games 2 are not (please don't start this argument here either) There's a reason one game is a lot more detailed then the next, Uncharted is mostly static set pieces with extremely high detailed textures and non moving parts. My bet is any modern FPS at 60fps pushes the current hardware to the limit more then either of these games, would like to see an uncapped option to see what they're capable of doing.

halo and gears is 30fps on x360.

 

[Mattyp]

halo and gears is 30fps on x360.

Was actually referencing the complaints about the graphics gap in this generation but can see how that wasn't clear with my wording at all.

 

[Negotiator]

This is the thing a lot of people don't look at, Halo & Gears target 60FPS, Uncharted & TLoU target 30FPS. The reason being 2 are multiplayer games 2 are not (please don't start this argument here either) There's a reason one game is a lot more detailed then the next, Uncharted is mostly static set pieces with extremely high detailed textures and non moving parts. My bet is any modern FPS at 60fps pushes the current hardware to the limit more then either of these games, would like to see an uncapped option to see what they're capable of doing.

Halo and Gears on XBOX 360 had a 60 fps target? You sure about that?

I've played GoW 3 MP via BC, it's a nice looking game, but it still has a 30 fps cap.

If you're talking about current-gen games (like Halo 5 and GoW 4), keep in mind that GoW 4 runs at 30 fps in the Campaign and 60 fps in MP (just like Uncharted 4). Only Halo 5 is 60 fps across the board.

 

[Mattyp]

If you're talking about current-gen games (like Halo 5 and GoW 4), keep in mind that GoW 4 runs at 30 fps in the Campaign and 60 fps in MP (just like Uncharted 4). Only Halo 5 is 60 fps across the board.

Uncharted 4 runs at 60fps in multiplayer? Colour me surprised, I remember he mode being near enough to the single player graphics. Is it locked? Really surprised they didn't push to get the SP there then it must not of been far off.

 

[Negotiator]

Was actually referencing the complaints about the graphics gap in this generation but can see how that wasn't clear with my wording at all.

This gen of consoles has a 1.31 TF baseline for XB1 exclusives and a 1.84 TF baseline for PS4 exclusives.

Is it so weird to compare games like Quantum Break and Uncharted 4 and say that the latter looks far more impressive (not just in graphics/resolution)? I've played both btw.

Next-gen will likely set a 5TF baseline for XB2 exclusives (assuming they ditch the XB1 baseline, not sure yet) and a 12-13 TF baseline for PS5 exclusives. The gap can only get wider and it's not that unreasonable to suggest this.

Sony is fully committed to having distinct generations, while MS has actually said the opposite.

The only good thing about having a lower baseline is that games with less detailed graphics/physics/AI will take less time to make, so maybe MS will actually have more exclusives this time around (judging by their studio acquisitions).

Uncharted 4 runs at 60fps in multiplayer? Colour me surprised, I remember he mode being near enough to the single player graphics. Is it locked? Really surprised they didn't push to get the SP there then it must not of been far off.

Competitive/PvP runs at 60 fps on OG PS4 (not just Pro), while PvE/Co-op has a 30 fps cap (including PS4 Pro). I'm fairly convinced they could have uncapped the latter, on Pro at least.

 

[FranXico]

Uncharted 4 runs at 60fps in multiplayer? Colour me surprised, I remember he mode being near enough to the single player graphics. Is it locked? Really surprised they didn't push to get the SP there then it must not of been far off.

I'm not sure if it is locked, but MP runs at 900p in order to reach 60fps. SP is 1080p30.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Lol This thread has taken many turns, now it's an Uncharted 4 breakdown, earlier it was ps3/Xbox 360 exclusives battle. What year am I in again?

Just joking guys, I know new rumors are at a stabd still so we need something to talk about.

 

[Negotiator]

I'm not sure if it is locked, but MP runs at 900p in order to reach 60fps. SP is 1080p30.

It's locked 99% of the time according to DF, since it's mostly GPU-bound (hence the 900p compromise) and they even offload AI (pathfinding) to compute shaders, which Witcher 3 doesn't do (yes, I'm looking at you Novigrad):

Madagascar City – Rod Reece

rodreece.com

From personal experience, the only way to tank the framerates is to make it CPU-bound by actually having all (10) players to activate a sidekick (10 human players + 10 NPCs), which is not a very realistic scenario (most matches will only have 2-3 sidekicks tops and they get killed relatively quickly).

 

[TLZ]

 

[CyberPanda]

He’s waiting to get his cock sucked by Cerny or Spencer.

 

[Xmengrey]

The bold part (FP64 performance) needs some context:

"For double-precision floating point operations, as sometimes used in personal computers and often used in scientific computing, Cell performance drops by an order of magnitude, but still reaches 20.8 GFLOPS (1.8 GFLOPS per SPE, 6.4 GFLOPS per PPE)."

For single-precision/FP32 (that's what we want in video games) it's 25.6 GFLOPS per SPU (a total of 153.6 GFLOPS for 6 SPUs).

Are you sure the Zen 2 AVX2 FPU is not up to the task for that?

Also, let's not forget that MS/Sony have a partnership these days, which includes (among other things) making common dev tools for their platforms.

Who's to say that MS (with their 360 BC expertise) won't help Sony to develop a PS3 emulator? There's also RPCS3 from hobbyists and Sony's knowledge on the PS3 platform/innards.

RSX emulation shouldn't be that hard. The hard part IMHO would be to get a licence from Nvidia to emulate RSX tech on PS5. More of a legal than a tech issue if you think about it.

Last but not least, Sony will eventually have to replace proprietary PS3 blades that are no longer manufactured due to obsolete tech (Cell/RSX/XDR/GDDR3).

Unless of course they're willing to let the PS3 ecosystem die, which would be a shame from a game preservation and financial perspective...

The stuff that Microsoft is doing with Xbox 360 emulation is in no way comparable to a PS3 Emulator for PS5.

The PS3 and Xbox 360 are very different architectural wise, and Microsoft recompiles game they don't directly emulate them.

Also with RPCS3 it takes a pretty decent computer to emulate these things well not sure how Sony can replicate that on PS5.

PS1, PS2 no problem, PS4 no problem, PS3 might be possible but wouldn't hold my breath for it especially at launch

 

[Negotiator]

The stuff that Microsoft is doing with Xbox 360 emulation is in no way comparable to a PS3 Emulator for PS5.

The PS3 and Xbox 360 are very different architectural wise, and Microsoft recompiles game they don't directly emulate them.

Also with RPCS3 it takes a pretty decent computer to emulate these things well not sure how Sony can replicate that on PS5.

PS1, PS2 no problem, PS4 no problem, PS3 might be possible but wouldn't hold my breath for it especially at launch

What makes you think that MS and Sony cannot collaborate and combine their own strengths to co-develop a PS3 emulator?

Sony is a customer for Azure infrastructure, they will want to populate the Azure cloud with PS3 blades to continue offering PS Now services in many more countries than they currently do.

Ask yourself: will they keep manufacturing proprietary hardware forever? The last PS3 Super Slim revision (28nm RSX) was designed back in 2014.

What choice do they have? To stop offering PS3 games on PS Now? They haven't even shut down PSN services on PS3 consoles, if that tells us something.

RPCS3 already runs on hacked PS4s with Linux and OpenGL API:



Sony has the expertise to develop a low-level translation layer (GCM -> GNM) with much lower overhead running on their custom FreeBSD OS.

And yes, I know that MS recompiles PPC binaries to x86-64. Most modern HLE emulators do that. It makes sense.

I don't expect it at launch, 360 BC didn't come at launch either. I'm still waiting for PS1 BC on PS4 (got plenty of digital PS1 games from PS3) and I'm pretty sure it's not due to technical hurdles.

 

[archy121]

I like.

 

[Xmengrey]

What makes you think that MS and Sony cannot collaborate and combine their own strengths to co-develop a PS3 emulator?

Sony is a customer for Azure infrastructure, they will want to populate the Azure cloud with PS3 blades to continue offering PS Now services in many more countries than they currently do.

Ask yourself: will they keep manufacturing proprietary hardware forever? The last PS3 Super Slim revision (28nm RSX) was designed back in 2014.

What choice do they have? To stop offering PS3 games on PS Now? They haven't even shut down PSN services on PS3 consoles, if that tells us something.

RPCS3 already runs on hacked PS4s with Linux and OpenGL API:



Sony has the expertise to develop a low-level translation layer (GCM -> GNM) with much lower overhead running on their custom FreeBSD OS.

And yes, I know that MS recompiles PPC binaries to x86-64. Most modern HLE emulators do that. It makes sense.

I don't expect it at launch, 360 BC didn't come at launch either. I'm still waiting for PS1 BC on PS4 (got plenty of digital PS1 games from PS3) and I'm pretty sure it's not due to technical hurdles.

Never said they couldn't I'm just saying what MS does with Xbox 360 is different than what goes on with PlayStation.
They won't have to keep manufacturing PS3 hardware forever they can emulate it on much more powerful PCs in a server instead of a PS5. A few games working via rpcs3 doesn't necessarily mean we are going to see something like PS3 BC in the same vein as PS2 BC.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What makes you think that MS and Sony cannot collaborate and combine their own strengths to co-develop a PS3 emulator?

Sony is a customer for Azure infrastructure, they will want to populate the Azure cloud with PS3 blades to continue offering PS Now services in many more countries than they currently do.

Ask yourself: will they keep manufacturing proprietary hardware forever? The last PS3 Super Slim revision (28nm RSX) was designed back in 2014.

What choice do they have? To stop offering PS3 games on PS Now? They haven't even shut down PSN services on PS3 consoles, if that tells us something.

RPCS3 already runs on hacked PS4s with Linux and OpenGL API:



Sony has the expertise to develop a low-level translation layer (GCM -> GNM) with much lower overhead running on their custom FreeBSD OS.

And yes, I know that MS recompiles PPC binaries to x86-64. Most modern HLE emulators do that. It makes sense.

I don't expect it at launch, 360 BC didn't come at launch either. I'm still waiting for PS1 BC on PS4 (got plenty of digital PS1 games from PS3) and I'm pretty sure it's not due to technical hurdles.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-..."&OS="Sony+Interactive"&RS="Sony+Interactive" —> cloud based on demand emulators translating legacy code into the new platform code...

According to aspects of the present disclosure, an emulator may be one of a plurality of virtual machines on a cloud based server. The emulator may be created by the server in response to demand for a given emulated application. Once the emulator has been generated by the server, the emulator may access an application that is to be emulated. The emulator may then begin translating the code of the application. The translated code may be stored in a cache. When a client device platform selects the application that has been emulated by the emulator, the emulator may deliver the translated application data to the client device platform over the network

 

[SonGoku]

It is more the price to buy, configure, and run the equipment to make it possible then the manufacturing steps themselves.

EUV's Uncertain Future

EUV's Uncertain Future Litho tech has finally arrived after years of delays and billions of dollars in investments. Now the question is who still needs it.

semiengineering.com

Why EUV Is So Difficult

Why EUV Is So Difficult One of the most complex technologies ever developed is getting closer to rollout. Here's why it took so long, and why it still isn't a sure thing.

semiengineering.com

Slower improvements jumps getting slower: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1272...-scaling-but-thin-power-and-performance-gains

Those hurdles are past though with EUV finally starting volume production, and its the future for upcoming process shrinks
As i said 7nm EUV benenefits are not worth the costs of redesigning a 7nm chip but if you set from the start to design the chip around 7nm EUV it shouldn't be more costly than standard 7nm

 

[midouglas]

A bit off-topic but I think the naming convention of the next Xbox will be a bit of a struggle. 360 was perfect, ONE not so much; even though it was clear they wanted to encompass all home entertainment.

Spoiler

 

[TeamGhobad]

I think nexbox is going to be numbered.

Xbox 3080 Lockhart
Xbox 5060 Anaconda

 

[GermanZepp]

Some Backwards patent
Same

 

[Fake]

“The performance of an application on a new device may be closely matched to the performance of that same application on the legacy device by tuning the operating parameters of the new device, ”

Patent Public Search | USPTO

patft.uspto.gov

 

[ResilientBanana]

A bit off-topic but I think the naming convention of the next Xbox will be a bit of a struggle. 360 was perfect, ONE not so much; even though it was clear they wanted to encompass all home entertainment.

Spoiler

You spelled Infinite or Infinity wrong, I'm not sure which you were going for. But either way, that's a bad name. I'd rather them drop the numbering and just go with:

• Xbox C
• Xbox S
• Xbox X

But if they do keep a console name I'd rather it be something like this, which you can also have S and X variants:

• Xbox Aura
• Xbox Spire
• Xbox Onyx

 

[BruceCM]

Xbox Tifa Lockhart

FTFY.... Then, the Xbox Yuna?

 

[Bogroll]

Halo and Gears on XBOX 360 had a 60 fps target? You sure about that?

I've played GoW 3 MP via BC, it's a nice looking game, but it still has a 30 fps cap.

If you're talking about current-gen games (like Halo 5 and GoW 4), keep in mind that GoW 4 runs at 30 fps in the Campaign and 60 fps in MP (just like Uncharted 4). Only Halo 5 is 60 fps across the board.

Gears 4 60fps option on campaign on X

 

[TLZ]

A bit off-topic but I think the naming convention of the next Xbox will be a bit of a struggle. 360 was perfect, ONE not so much; even though it was clear they wanted to encompass all home entertainment.

Spoiler

I don't know what's with their naming and obsession with resetting the name every time. Just look at it. Obviously the first one was just Xbox. Then next one was a 360, so a full circle and back to square one. Meaning this is THE one? Alright then, but the next one is literally called ONE. Wtf? So they're saying this is THE one? They're always fixated on resetting and going back to square one, like they're not satisfied.

So again, the next and 4th console will be a name reset, therefore a name implying going back to square one again. Xbox's Twitter account a while ago just tweeted 'Xbox'. Could it be? That'd be just silly if it happens. Maybe Xbox Prime? Xbox Origin?

 

[Bogroll]

A bit off-topic but I think the naming convention of the next Xbox will be a bit of a struggle. 360 was perfect, ONE not so much; even though it was clear they wanted to encompass all home entertainment.

Spoiler

Xbox 560, easy if there's only one machine

 

[vpance]

Maybe Xbox Prime? Xbox Origin?

Those conflict with existing services. I think it'll be Xbox Revolutions, or Xbox Infinity.

 

[TLZ]

Those conflict with existing services. I think it'll be Xbox Revolutions, or Xbox Infinity.

Either of them will be a breakaway from their usual naming like I described though. So I wonder if they'll have any common sense this time.

 

[Ar¢tos]

You spelled Infinite or Infinity wrong, I'm not sure which you were going for. But either way, that's a bad name. I'd rather them drop the numbering and just go with:

• Xbox C
• Xbox S
• Xbox X

But if they do keep a console name I'd rather it be something like this, which you can also have S and X variants:

• Xbox Aura
• Xbox Spire
• Xbox Onyx

It will be something stupid that nobody will believe it was approved.

Like Xboxify or LitterBox

 

[Insane Metal]

He’s waiting to get his cock sucked by Cerny or Spencer.

Always thinking about dicks

 

[TeamGhobad]

the lack of leaks is kinda annoying...but could also mean nothing major is going to be shown, other than it has 8cores and AMD gpu.

 

[Fake]

Well, we'are close to E3, so make a little sense the reduce of leaks.

 

[Ar¢tos]

He’s waiting to get his cock sucked by Cerny or Spencer.

 

[Insane Metal]

So... what happened to that "Sony lawyers are gonna have a busy week" or something like that? It's not gaming related, but I don't see anything regarding Sony anywhere?

 

[DeepEnigma]

What makes you think that MS and Sony cannot collaborate and combine their own strengths to co-develop a PS3 emulator?

Sony is a customer for Azure infrastructure, they will want to populate the Azure cloud with PS3 blades to continue offering PS Now services in many more countries than they currently do.

Ask yourself: will they keep manufacturing proprietary hardware forever? The last PS3 Super Slim revision (28nm RSX) was designed back in 2014.

What choice do they have? To stop offering PS3 games on PS Now? They haven't even shut down PSN services on PS3 consoles, if that tells us something.

RPCS3 already runs on hacked PS4s with Linux and OpenGL API:



Sony has the expertise to develop a low-level translation layer (GCM -> GNM) with much lower overhead running on their custom FreeBSD OS.

And yes, I know that MS recompiles PPC binaries to x86-64. Most modern HLE emulators do that. It makes sense.

I don't expect it at launch, 360 BC didn't come at launch either. I'm still waiting for PS1 BC on PS4 (got plenty of digital PS1 games from PS3) and I'm pretty sure it's not due to technical hurdles.

This makes me want to hunt down a copy of Folklore every time it is posted.

 

[Munki]

So... what happened to that "Sony lawyers are gonna have a busy week" or something like that? It's not gaming related, but I don't see anything regarding Sony anywhere?

It was in regards to the show "Jeopardy"

The upcoming episode leaked.

Spoiler

James Holzhauer lost.

 

[Evilms]

Backward compatibility: PS4 games will be naturally optimized on PS5 and without patches.

Updated Sony patent explains how PS5 backwards compatibility is going to work

Sony's goal with PS5 backwards compatibility is for legacy software to run optimally on new hardware, but it's also investigating ways it could run better.

www.vg247.com

 

[LordOfChaos]

Backward compatibility: PS4 games will be naturally optimized on PS5 and without patches.

Updated Sony patent explains how PS5 backwards compatibility is going to work

Sony's goal with PS5 backwards compatibility is for legacy software to run optimally on new hardware, but it's also investigating ways it could run better.

www.vg247.com

As the methodology explains, however, this is only the start. When testing concludes the legacy game is stable on new hardware, Sony will begin optimising performance to see if the game could benefit from the upgraded hardware. This is done until the application fails, to determine the ceiling.

It’s a process comparable to overclocking on PC, of which optimisation and fine-tuning is a core part. The description doesn’t mention any change to legacy code, which could indicate the intent is for old games to run on new hardware seamlessly. Whether that is a blanket confirmation for all games released on current-gen, of course, remains to be seen.

Sounds pretty ideal, that's what I was hoping for. Still wonder if it'll run Pro patches, and allow devs to patch beyond Pro levels.

 

[Negotiator]

Patches will still be required to remove the 30 fps cap in plenty of console games.

 

[xool]

Xbox 1.1

 

[FranXico]

Patches will still be required to remove the 30 fps cap in plenty of console games.

So, Bloodborne will always have a choppy framerate. Might as well accept it. Not even the PS5 will let it reach its full potential...

 

[Fake]

Sounds pretty ideal, that's what I was hoping for. Still wonder if it'll run Pro patches, and allow devs to patch beyond Pro levels.

Indeed is. I already expecting the PS4 games on PS5 running in the same way PRO, but if >PRO will be a bonus.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So, Bloodborne will always have a choppy framerate. Might as well accept it. Not even the PS5 will let it reach its full potential...

Bloodborne is due to framepacing. It is actually skipping frames and trying to run higher than the 30 cap I believe. From needs to fix their shit, honestly.

 

[Gamernyc78]

So, Bloodborne will always have a choppy framerate. Might as well accept it. Not even the PS5 will let it reach its full potential...

Tht isn't Sony's problem or a hardware issue (most from games suffer from frame pacing across all consoles) thts Froms problem and the engine they are using. Doesn't matter how powerful the console is if that doesn't get fixed on the developers side (frame pacing) it won't get fixed.

 

[vpance]

Either of them will be a breakaway from their usual naming like I described though. So I wonder if they'll have any common sense this time.

You're right, it seems like they have a thing for numbers with a deeper meaning (lol)

My new bet is, Xbox Millennium

 

[Mattyp]

Patches will still be required to remove the 30 fps cap in plenty of console games.

This. There's a reason Microsoft has to modify the code for every X improved game. They have frame rate limits along with resolution limits hard coded into the games the majority of the time. Otherwise we could enjoy just popping in any 360 game and enjoy it running like RDR or FF.

Sony will face the same issues, but with how good base PS4 games look compared to last gen it shouldn't be that much of a noticeable difference either way improved or not.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Wow impressive 2.8x. Navis 1.5x looks mediocre by comparison
Im beginning to think this GCN-RDNA hybrid is the one to blame

But i was thinking 14->7nm is a bigger jump than 28nm->14nm. Will search for tsmc specs.

I think the polaris advantage is because it is being compared across nodes, while navi 1.5x is likely compared vs radeon vii 7nm, both on the same node.

 

[BruceCM]

Next is Xbox Minus 1....?

 

[NickFire]

Backward compatibility: PS4 games will be naturally optimized on PS5 and without patches.

Updated Sony patent explains how PS5 backwards compatibility is going to work

Sony's goal with PS5 backwards compatibility is for legacy software to run optimally on new hardware, but it's also investigating ways it could run better.

www.vg247.com

This slow drip of info is distracting the crap out of me waiting for something really big to drop over the next 7 - 8 days (price, release date, more detailed specs, all of the above). Basic hardware a short while ago, more details about bc via a patent updated around 5/28 and which Sony knew would make the rounds once they submitted it. Google giving details this week, MS making no secret that its going all in. My gut says they plan very big news but want to avoid anyone reacting in time for E3. Guessing great specs for 399.