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[Marlenus]

Sony's patent seems focused on maxing out read speeds and its very custom

The hardware for that seems too expensive to make it viable for a console. Maybe if that is a 128GB scratch drive for the stuff that is not in main memory it could worth with a slower SSD or spinner for main storage.

Software optimisation is probably happening though.

 

[mckmas8808]

The hardware for that seems too expensive to make it viable for a console. Maybe if that is a 128GB scratch drive for the stuff that is not in main memory it could worth with a slower SSD or spinner for main storage.

Software optimisation is probably happening though.

Maybe Sony is willing to lose a few bucks on this console.

 

[Fake]

Microsoft will talk about next gen for sure. After that wired article they want to answer that.

 

[Marlenus]

Maybe Sony is willing to lose a few bucks on this console.

Maybe, but they need the sweet spot for pricing or they won't sell enough to make up the losses and the r n d costs through ps+ and game sales.

 

[SonGoku]

Game size is 100gb. It depends on constant streaming of assets at 4gb/sec.
What are you going to preload?
And where?

You don't play the full game at the same time. 32gb ddr4 should be more than enough plus a sata3 ssd (500mb/s) to keep the buffer feed

The hardware for that seems too expensive to make it viable for a console. Maybe if that is a 128GB scratch drive for the stuff that is not in main memory it could worth with a slower SSD or spinner for main storage.

Software optimisation is probably happening though.

Uh? read the post i linked and come again
The customizations are not dependent of size

 

[nowhat]

So how about some real leaks instead of speculation for a change?

 

[Marlenus]

You don't play the full game at the same time. 32gb ddr4 should be more than enough plus a sata3 ssd (500mb/s) to keep the buffer feed

Uh? read the post i linked and come again
The customizations are not dependent of size

The larger the drive the more SRAM you need and SRAM is expensive. If you are going for all out performance and using SRAM instead of dram for lookups and doing everything you can to remove bottlenecks you are also going to use MLC NAND which is also expensive. On top of that the number of NAND chips matters as well since more = faster to a point. That is why 1GB drives are faster than 500GB drives which are faster than 250GB drives.

So to fully optimise for speed the best way imo is to use a large drive (1TB minimum 2TB preferred) making use of the maximum number of Nand chips they can connected over pcie4 and using a mildly modified ssd controller to maximise read speed via a custom file system designed for it.

Using SRAM and other custom hardware will cost and reduce the amount of Nand they can fit in where as simply going with mostly off the shelf products and putting more NAND in also increases speed.

 

[SonGoku]

The larger the drive the more SRAM you need and SRAM is expensive. If you are going for all out performance and using SRAM instead of dram for lookups and doing everything you can to remove bottlenecks you are also going to use MLC NAND which is also expensive. On top of that the number of NAND chips matters as well since more = faster to a point. That is why 1GB drives are faster than 500GB drives which are faster than 250GB drives.

If you read the patent you'd know one of the benefits of using sram is it doesn't require as much of it as storage increases

SRAM instead of DRAM inside the SSD for lower latency and higher throughput access between the flash memory controller and the address lookup data. The patent proposes using a coarser granularity of data access for data that is written once, and not re-written - e.g. game install data. This larger block size can allow for address lookup tables as small as 32KB, instead of 1GB. Data read by the memory controller can also be buffered in SRAM for ECC checks instead of DRAM (because of changes made further up the stack, described later). The patent also notes that by ditching DRAM, reduced complexity and cost may be possible, and cost will scale better with larger SSDs that would otherwise need e.g. 2GB of DRAM for 2TB of storage, and so on.

 

[Marlenus]

If you read the patent you'd know one of the benefits of using sram is it doesn't require as much of it as storage increases

I don't see why you can't use larger block sizes with dram to reduce how much you need and gain most of the benefit at a lower cost.

It is an interesting patent, does not mean it will be fully utilised though. If it was MS then I could believe it more as it is something that might be useful for their azure servers as well so the dev costs would be split between more cost centres and volume would be larger (and with servers higher margin) making it more viable to also use in the console.

 

[psorcerer]

You don't play the full game at the same time. 32gb ddr4 should be more than enough plus a sata3 ssd (500mb/s) to keep the buffer feed

If original game relies on 4gb/sec. Then for 500mb/sec you'll need 8x the buffer.
Let's say console has 16gb ram. Then you need 128gb/ram to just keep up with the speed. You maybe able to rearrange data (will hit performance) and get to 64gb. But not realistically less than that.
Of course it's all hypothetical. But 8x speed difference in file mapping will be brutal.

 

[farmerboy]

As an unashamed Sony fanboy, I can say I'm really looking forward to MS' conference.

With Sony's absence, the only indication of what we are getting next gen will be from MS. Also super curious as to what they talk about, and probably more so, what they do not talk about.

MS' conference will be scripted to the last syllable, they'll really want to make sure their message is super clear and on point. And it'll have to be, as the scrutiny they will be under will be immense.

Can't wait.

 

[Lort]

Theres two senarios here one is travelling the game world fast...

Lets say the game world is 100 gig then that will take 30 seconds to cross the world. ( nvme 3gbytes per second) Thats how fast the xbox will load without any extra tech ( or how fast a pc could). I cant see how that is realistically going to be a limitation to game design and implementation. If we need to load much much data each game will need to be 1tb + ...

The other senario is loading character model textures fast between cut scenes ... whist playing a cut scene of 1 second ( obviously very short cut scene) then you could load in 3 gigs of texture data... note that an uncompressed image at 4k is only 32 megabytes so the maximum texture that can ever be actually visible is 32 megabytes. ( so thats a lot of overhead!)

Whilst this superfast SSD tech sounds good i dont see how it will realistically be very useful. Most games are going to be 24 gigs at load time ( takes 8 seconds to load) and maybe another 24 gigs as you progress through the level .. so you could complete the level in 8 seconds without stopping for loading.

 

[FranXico]

And it'll have to be, as the scrutiny they will be under will be immense.

I disagree, Microsoft have been pretty much free from scrutiny for the last couple of years. Most of western gaming press is ready to praise them no matter what.

 

[CyberPanda]

 

[Bergoglio]

I need to find out what this tweet means

 

[TLZ]

Give us the meaty stuff please.

 

[ethomaz]

I need to find out what this tweet means

I guess it means MS is afraid to release too much info and be surprised by Sony again... so they are not sure in what they will share or not in two days.

 

[Ellery]

I need to find out what this tweet means

I would guess that Phil Spencer is weighing how much he is actually going to give us.
He probably wants a big bang, but there is also some danger to giving out specifications more than 1 year in advance.

If Sony had revealed the exact specifications of the PS5 then Phil would probably do that too, but I expect him to talk in very rough estimates.
I doubt that he comes on stage and says "Ok listen here we got XX TFLops, XX GB/TB storage size, XX VRAM, XX CPU cores with XX GHZ"

It feels too far out for release date/exact specs/price. I guess this year is more about the teasing and the outline of what the console with offer.
Similar to what Sony did with saying super fast SSD, BC for PS4 etc.

Maybe we get a bit more dilly dally talk that doesn't mean much like "The new Xbox is twice as fast as the Xbox One X".

If I had to take a guess what they will say/show :

- Xbox Next gen console supports all Xbox Games (Backwards Compatability)
- Xbox Next has an SSD for super fast loading
- Xbox Next has a super high advanced CPU and GPU (little bit of mass market talk to make the laymen understand instead of TFLOP talk)
- Maybe show one trailer/gameplay of what Xbox Next games could look like. Rumor has it Halo Infinite on high end PC hardware?
- Also the name of the console is a possiblity, or they just stick with codename Scarlett for this year and reveal it next year
- Probably a lot of true 4K high framerate experience bla bla
- Old games ultra enchanced (basically like Xbox One X). Maybe even current 1080p Xbox One games are getting the 4K treatment then? All digital content you bought over the last years can still be used the same on the next Xbox etc. etc.
- Possibly a teaser about what the hardware could look like. A little sneak peek but not actual high res pictures. Or the controller
- and after the Halo Infite gameplay (maybe) they just end by having a huge 2020 on the screen.

We actually got a lot of Info from Sony this year regarding the PS5. Actually much more than I thought they would share. I would love for the Xbox to put in actual specifications, but I heavily doubt it this year. Maybe late 2019 or at e3 2020

 

[FranXico]

I guess it means MS is afraid to release too much info and be surprised by Sony again... so they are not sure in what they will share or not in two days.

I wouldn't call it fear, that's silly IMO. They are just being careful.

All the way to 2020, Sony and MS are going to play chicken with specs, date, price.

 

[Mattyp]

I wouldn't call it fear, that's silly IMO. They are just being careful.

All the way to 2020, Sony and MS are going to play chicken with specs, date, price.

It's not fear, just good business decisions. Microsoft don't need to reveal specs, they'll do a reveal so we know its coming with some games or scenes running and roughly power difference but that's all we'll see. They won't let Sony go back and get double the ram in like this gen again, but differences wont vary that heavily either. Then it's up to Sony to reveal specs in their upcoming show whenever that is or they both wait until E3 next year when at that point it's to late.

 

[pawel86ck]

Old games ultra enchanced (basically like Xbox One X). Maybe even current 1080p Xbox One games are getting the 4K treatment then?

Xbox one games at 4K 60fps would be really nice, but I'm guessing developers would have to patch their games first.

 

[Ellery]

Xbox one games at 4K 60fps would be really nice, but I'm guessing developers would have to patch their games first.

yeah of course. I could see it happening for first party games though !

 

[xool]

Anyone able to say when to expect mass production of new consoles to begin?

Looking forward to grainy Foxconn employee photo leaks

 

[ResilientBanana]

I'm expecting a Scorpio style reveal.

 

[ethomaz]

Anyone able to say when to expect mass production of new consoles to begin?

Looking forward to grainy Foxconn employee photo leaks

For a launch in November? Mas production starts around July-August.

Depends how big they expect to sell at launch too.

 

[PaNaMa]

Sony banked on MS hubris before last gen started, and it paid off for them in a major way.
MS had ridden the 360s success. They put out a gimmicky niche camera for the 360 to try and capture some of that "Wii appeal". In doing so, MS began to alienate many of their core gamers. There was this very public, tangible shift in focus (hah punny) from the Xbox division to developing and pushing this camera gimmickery. Camera games your great aunt Gertrude and dance games for children were suddenly more important than anything else. The whole Kinect thing ultimately "extended" the life of Xbox 360 in MS's eyes, but in mind it just delayed the onset of next gen. Moreover, it pushed me to abandon Xbox as a platform and forced me back in to PC gaming.

Behind closed doors Sony sought out developers, engaging them as equal partners and seeking their feedback and approval in a way Sony had never really done before. They were quietly developing the console everyone wanted with PS4, while MS DOUBLED DOWN on its camera strategy for its next Xbox. Every gamer will want a voice activated television with espn snap in. This is what gamers want!!! Let's get a camera in every SKU, spend a sh*t tonne of RND and resources fine tuning this interface, and not worry about the console's core gaming capability so much.

Sony stood back and watched MS nuke themselves right in the foot. The confusingly presented message of all digital, always on, e3 DRM debacle was just the icing on the cake. Xbox was dead out of the gates last gen, and yes I've seen Titanfall.

Phil seems to get it. Phil is why I'm back on team Xbox - Scorpio brought me back. So Phil, as much as I'm dying for details on the new Xbox Sunday, don't show Sony all your cards.
*edited a couple typos*

 

[Gamernyc78]

I guess it means MS is afraid to release too much info and be surprised by Sony again... so they are not sure in what they will share or not in two days.

The issue with tht is Sony has been killing it in sales, although by now they have slowed down. Being Sony is leading this generation the pressure is on Microsoft, not Sony to make the first move in giving full info on hardware. Sony can ride their momentum awhile longer its still making them money especially since they have a few blockbusters coming out soon.

Sony are very smart and each gen come out with something to define the console and distinguish it while Micro seems to play catch up. Last Gen it was blu-ray and having solid studios with new and innovative ips. This gen it was psvr and features like SharePlay, next Gen seems to be the proprietary Ssd (although micro will surely use an Ssd as well but just like insurance all policies arent the same). I commend micro however on bc and gane pass so thy also have things tht make ppl want to but their console.

I dont think Sony will blink and they'll just wait for Microsoft to show their hand. We shall see. Unless of course they have something so unique tht it doesn't matter if thy go first or not.

 

[ethomaz]

The issue with tht is Sony has been killing it in sales, although by now they have slowed down. Being Sony is leading this generation the pressure is on Microsoft, not Sony to make the first move in giving full info on hardware. Sony can ride their momentum awhile longer its still making them money especially since they have a few blockbusters coming out soon.

MS can’t be first to give hardware specs because Phil already claimed last year that Anaconda is the most powerful console in the world... their marketing is based in that claim... they can have slower load times but they can’t have lower raw power specs.

They can’t see Sony having stronger raw power after that claim. They can’t give something low that will allow the competition to surprise them.

Sony our pressure in MS with it killed move with that Wired article... it was basically a check move in chess and now MS needs to avoid the check mate.

It is a easy to choose what to show or not in two days... and that even more true when you think they can’t be get with the pants dropped like in 2013.

 

[Gamernyc78]

MS can’t be first to give hardware specs because Phil already claimed last year that Anaconda is the most powerful console in the world.

They can’t see Sony having stronger raw power after that claim. They can’t give something low that will allow the competition to surprise them.

Sony our pressure in MS with it killed move with that Wired article... it was basically a check move in chess and now MS needs to avoid the check mate.

It is a easy to choose what to show or not in two days... and that even more true when you think they can’t be get with the pants dropped like in 2013.

Phil and Microsoft can say what they want just like they have in the past and have disappointed before. Just bcus Phil wants that doesn't mean it will happen. Phil is not the Ceo of Sony. The most powerful console in the world means shit because it came out after all the others were released and thts what consoles do besides Nintendo they go back and forth on being most powerful depending on release and timing.

 

[ethomaz]

Phil and Microsoft can say what they want just like they have in the past and have disappointed before. Just bcus Phil wants that doesn't mean it will happen. Phil is not the Ceo of Sony. The most powerful console in the world means shit because it came out after all the others were released and thts what consoles do besides Nintendo they go back and forth on being most powerful depending on release and timing.

For MS that marketing means everything... they have that crow with X and they desperate want that with Anaconda no matter what they need to pay for (or gamers pay).

They don’t want to be called weaker like 2013 even when in truth the issue was being weaker and $100 more expensive (Xbox One should be cheaper at launch).

MS wants one hardware to be the flagship (Anaconda) and the other to be the driver sales (Lockhart).

 

[Gamernyc78]

For MS that marketing means everything... they have that crow with X and they desperate want that with Anaconda no matter what they need to pay for (or gamers pay).

They don’t want to be called weaker like 2013 even when in truth the issue was being weaker and $100 more expensive (Xbox One should be cheaper at launch).

MS wants one hardware to be the flagship (Anaconda) and the other to be the driver sales (Lockhart).

Again you keep saying "they" we all are gamers who know whats going on, all this is common sense. My point is "They" can say what they want to but tht doesn't amount to anything. "They" wanted kinect to be the future we know how that turned out, "they" told ppl cloud compute would make Xbox 360 exponentially stronger (again we all know how that turned out) so my point is what they say or want amounts to nothing right now. Sony won't just let or give them an advantage thts not how business works. Hence why no one is trying to jump out and talk.

As for the crown, Idk what "crown" you speak of because all it was was more powerful because it released later but Sony continued to outsell Xbox so really no hurtful effect.

 

[TBiddy]

MS can’t be first to give hardware specs because Phil already claimed last year that Anaconda is the most powerful console in the world... their marketing is based in that claim... they can have slower load times but they can’t have lower raw power specs.

Phil Spencer never said that their next console would be the most powerful in the world. Is that another "fact", just like people are working to turn speculation into facts when it comes to the storage solution (which we know literally nothing about) in the next Xbox?

 

[ethomaz]

Phil Spencer never said that their next console would be the most powerful in the world. Is that another "fact", just like people are working to turn speculation into facts when it comes to the storage solution (which we know literally nothing about) in the next Xbox?

He said live to everybody hear.

 

[Krakin]

It's not fear, just good business decisions. Microsoft don't need to reveal specs, they'll do a reveal so we know its coming with some games or scenes running and roughly power difference but that's all we'll see. They won't let Sony go back and get double the ram in like this gen again, but differences wont vary that heavily either. Then it's up to Sony to reveal specs in their upcoming show whenever that is or they both wait until E3 next year when at that point it's to late.

After what happened this gen, I take no issue with calling it fear

 

[TBiddy]

He said live to everybody hear.

He has never said that. Seriously. Why would you make that stuff up?

 

[ethomaz]

He has never said that. Seriously. Why would you make that stuff up?

Make that stuff lol each one you need to deal in internet lol

"Our hardware team is deep into developing the next generation of Xbox consoles, where we will once again deliver on our commitment to set the benchmark for console gaming." Phil Spenser, E3 2018.

Watch the conference first please.

 

[TBiddy]

Make that stuff lol each one you need to deal in internet lol

"Our hardware team is deep into developing the next generation of Xbox consoles, where we will once again deliver on our commitment to set the benchmark for console gaming." Phil Spenser, E3 2018.

Watch the conference first please.

How do you get from "set the benchmark" to "we're making the most powerful console in the world in the next gen"? That's some weird logic, right there.

There's numerous ways to set the benchmark in console gaming. Software features, best exclusives, online gaming, selling your digital games, best accessories and what have you. Spencer have literally never said that "Anaconda will be the most powerful console in the world".

There's enough speculation in this thread, as-is. No need to invent your own facts like that.

 

[ethomaz]

How do you get from "set the benchmark" to "we're making the most powerful console in the world in the next gen"? That's some weird logic, right there.

There's numerous ways to set the benchmark in console gaming. Software features, best exclusives, online gaming, selling your digital games, best accessories and what have you. Spencer have literally never said that "Anaconda will be the most powerful console in the world".

There's enough speculation in this thread, as-is. No need to invent your own facts like that.

Watch the conference and stop to try to spin or deny the truth please.

Phil says he wants to delivery again the same thing they did with X... the only thing X is benchmark is as the most powerful console in the world... they want that again.... they were clear and opened about that.

 

[TBiddy]

Watch the conference and stop to try to deny the truth please.

I did watch it. You're wrong, and that's really the only way to put it.

You wrote that he said, that Anaconda will be the most powerful console, and that their marketing is based on that. First part is wrong, which you indirectly admit, since you can't find anything to support your claim and the second part is speculation, since the marketing hasn't even begun yet.

 

[ethomaz]

I did watch it. You're wrong, and that's really the only way to put it.

You wrote that he said, that Anaconda will be the most powerful console, and that their marketing is based on that. First part is wrong, which you indirectly admit, since you can't find anything to support your claim and the second part is speculation, since the marketing hasn't even begun yet.

A fan will deny even after proof

I don't need you make up something that Phil said to everybody in a public event... he said himself.

 

[TBiddy]

A fan will deny even after proof

I don't need you make up something that Phil said to everybody in a public event.

You haven't provided proof, mate. Whenever you're ready to back up your claim, let me know. If you can provide anything from Spencers mouth, where he says that "Anaconda will be the most powerful console", I'll admit you're right.

Also, it's okay to be wrong. We all are, from time to time. The difference between you and me it seems, is that I'm not afraid to admit it when I'm wrong. It's an internet forum. You're not going to lose anything by admitting fault.

 

[ethomaz]

You haven't provided proof, mate. Whenever you're ready to back up your claim, let me know.

Also, it's okay to be wrong. We all are, from time to time. The difference between you and me it seems, is that I'm not afraid to admit it when I'm wrong. It's an internet forum. You're not going to lose anything by admitting fault.

Ok I'm wrong.

Phil still said they want to be the most powerful console in the world to everybody at E3 2018.... I can't change that even being wrong.

"Our hardware team is deep into developing the next generation of Xbox consoles, where we will once again deliver on our commitment to set the benchmark for console gaming." Phil Spenser, E3 2018.

 

[TBiddy]

If you repeat a lie enough times, eventually people will accept it as truth... even for a console warrior that seems like an extreme strategy. But each to his own, I guess.

edit: I'm not gonna dignify him with any more responses to his nonsense. It's a fact that Spencer never said that "Anaconda will be the most powerful console", no matter how ethomaz tries to spin it. Let's get back on track and speculate even more on how Sonys SSD solution is clearly much more superior than Microsofts, even though we have next to no knowledge of either.

 

[ethomaz]

If you repeat a lie enough times, eventually people will accept it as truth... even for a console warrior that seems like an extreme strategy. But each to his own, I guess.

If you try to spin the truth enough times you will only look dumb I guess.

I have nothing against you but Phil said what he said... I can't change that to fit your agenda.

 

[mckmas8808]

The issue with tht is Sony has been killing it in sales, although by now they have slowed down. Being Sony is leading this generation the pressure is on Microsoft, not Sony to make the first move in giving full info on hardware. Sony can ride their momentum awhile longer its still making them money especially since they have a few blockbusters coming out soon.

Sony are very smart and each gen come out with something to define the console and distinguish it while Micro seems to play catch up. Last Gen it was blu-ray and having solid studios with new and innovative ips. This gen it was psvr and features like SharePlay, next Gen seems to be the proprietary Ssd (although micro will surely use an Ssd as well but just like insurance all policies arent the same). I commend micro however on bc and gane pass so thy also have things tht make ppl want to but their console.

I dont think Sony will. Blink and they'll just wait for Microsoft to show their hand. We shall see. Unless of course they have something so unique tht it doesn't matter if thy go first or not.

I agree with you about Sony, but my only fear is that maybe Sony is getting too confident. I'd hate for Sony to get PS2 cocky and think they have everything all figured out and rest on their laurels. Skipping E3 shows you that Sony KNOWS they've got this gen in the bag and don't have to participate. So, they are willing to save money rather than bore people with game trailers of games that we've seen already. That's fine, but what's not fine is that there's rumors (or was it a fact) that Sony isn't having a PS Experience this year either. NOW THAT'S CRAZY!

For MS that marketing means everything... they have that crow with X and they desperate want that with Anaconda no matter what they need to pay for (or gamers pay).

They don’t want to be called weaker like 2013 even when in truth the issue was being weaker and $100 more expensive (Xbox One should be cheaper at launch).

MS wants one hardware to be the flagship (Anaconda) and the other to be the driver sales (Lockhart).

It's not possible for Anaconda to be the flagship, while Lockhart is the sales driver. It doesn't work that way. I "hope" MS isn't wishing for this scenario to be true.

 

[ethomaz]

It's not possible for Anaconda to be the flagship, while Lockhart is the sales driver. It doesn't work that way. I "hope" MS isn't wishing for this scenario to be true.

I don't understand what is not possible?

Phil said the next-gen console to be again the most powerful console in the world just like X... that one is Anaconda version.
Lockhart is suppose to be a cheaper entry-point based in Anaconda to drive sales.

I guess it will be something like...

Xbox New S (Lockhart) $299
Xbox New X (Anaconda) $499

It is clear the main drive sales will be the $299 version... the second one is just to hold the performance crow like the X did... I'm expecting MS to eat loses with Anaconda while Lockhart will be profitable.

MS wants to be the cheapest and most powerful option in the next-generation.

 

[chessy_08]

What if Microsofts cheaper console is say 6tf and uses cloud to get it to near 12tf to match the more expensive console. Trade off being the extra cost of data.

 

[ethomaz]

What if Microsofts cheaper console is say 6tf and uses cloud to get it to near 12tf to match the more expensive console. Trade off being the extra cost of data.

Cloud didn't add power to a console.

It offload non synchronized tasks only.

 

[vpance]

It would be amazing and hilarious if Sony managed to be cheaper and more powerful again.

 

[Fake]

If the nextbox use a full directx12 api... who knows.