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Tell Me Why - X019 - Announce Trailer (DONTNOD - summer 2020)
Hudo
Member
Does the hero being transgender impact the gameplay? Such that you have a game mechanic where you can use this in some way? Or is it a RPG where you could argue that you play as a character and therefore this is an option for player expression and immersion? Otherwise it's just a marketing bullet point, IMHO.
xrnzaaas
Member
If only the trailer suggested an interesting approach on the mental illness issues like in Hellblade...
Bathtub Fart
Banned
Gay people usually like to lean hard on evolution and moral subjectivity.
Evolution would say that gay people are the worst product of their species since they don't try to reproduce and go against their biological design.
bitbydeath
Member
Ahead of their time 
Puskas
Member
Considering the game was 'developed with input from the LGBTQ media group GLAAD', you'd bet it's pushing an agenda. Just another case of stupid obnoxious leftist identity politcs cacophony being present under the disguise of iNcLuSiviTy and rEpReseNtAtIon.
Just sit back, relax and honk. Enjoy the circus.
Roberts
Member
No snark here; I think it's great.
I had an opportunity to control wise-cracking adventurers or gruff alpha-males to last me a life time, so I'm always welcome to the idea of playing characters I'm willing to learn more about. For example, given the chance I tend to choose female protagonists, because IF they are well-written and realized, it is fun to see how a woman would react in certain situations - what is her emotional response, how she thinks and so on. So, the idea of being able to get into the head of transgender character (again, I hope it is a well-written character) sounds like something I'm totally up to. Bring it on.
I had an opportunity to control wise-cracking adventurers or gruff alpha-males to last me a life time, so I'm always welcome to the idea of playing characters I'm willing to learn more about. For example, given the chance I tend to choose female protagonists, because IF they are well-written and realized, it is fun to see how a woman would react in certain situations - what is her emotional response, how she thinks and so on. So, the idea of being able to get into the head of transgender character (again, I hope it is a well-written character) sounds like something I'm totally up to. Bring it on.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
When you try to pretend Bridget in Gulty Gear and Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter don't exist. 80's and 90's were all about sex with SNK and Capcom. That's why it's not shocking to see trangender versions of male fighters in SNK Heroïnes.
Birdo
Banned
Here's the problem though....... Most female characters in games are written like men. They are practically just model swaps.
The same thing is happening to movies. Female characters are just turning into men. Agressive, violent, angry, and headstrong. All female traits are being lost in a strange attempt to "Empower" them.
Roberts
Member
That is true to some extend, but it has gotten better over the years. I think A Plague Tale understand the psyche of a women pretty well. DONTNOD's own Life is Stange (which kind of bored me tbh) felt like a pretty authentic depiction of teenager girl's existential hardships. I also think it is OK for women characters to be angry. heh.
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For this game to come out right now I cant help but think it's being made to cash in on the current trend like a marketing or pr tool.
If it isnt then why bother advertising it? I mean did naughty dog ever market nathan drake in uncharted as being straight? If gender doesn't matter then or sexual orientation truly doesn't matter then why advertise it? I'm already not interested in this simply because it seems like a cash in on a hot topic.
If it isnt then why bother advertising it? I mean did naughty dog ever market nathan drake in uncharted as being straight? If gender doesn't matter then or sexual orientation truly doesn't matter then why advertise it? I'm already not interested in this simply because it seems like a cash in on a hot topic.
nikolino840
Member
I have never Heard straight as an insult..mocking...and kicks..or suicide ..how about being gay or trans? I think there's still works to do before can be like being straight like hold the hands and kissing (at least in Italy,some elder ones they think they have mental problems and they Say Is not normal, innatural and against God)
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CrisPy2019
Member
I cannot be bothered to look up more info on that mental illness(besides the medical stuff -clinical psychologist family member here) but is a transmale a male that is trans therefore thinks he is a woman? Or is it a woman and you call her transmale because she thinks she is a male?
Is it about the actual gender or the fantasy one?
Also make sure to not label a hero heroine and vise versa! Also what's the fluid verson of hero?
Is it about the actual gender or the fantasy one?
Also make sure to not label a hero heroine and vise versa! Also what's the fluid verson of hero?
eastwood333
Banned
Will be skipping it
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I agree and I don't object to a transgender lead per se, I object to DontNod's shitty, boring very poorly written angst-filled walking sims. I'd already decided this game definitely was not for me before I became aware the lead was trans. Based on their garbage games I've played; Before the Storm & LiS, I expect the writing in this one to be particularly horrible and agenda driven, also stupid and boring af.
Why they made this an Xbox exclusive is beyond me, I don't see it being well received on that platform, I think it would probably do better elsewhere or as a multi-plat.
Whatever, though I'm not vaguely interested, it seems some people like to play these boring-ass emo non-games so maybe it will do OK.
The Brooklyn Brawler
Member
"Treat us the same treat us the same!"
By highlighting us at every available opportunity
By highlighting us at every available opportunity
Vampire On Titus
Member
There've been games with really strong playable trans characters. One of my favorite games, Technobabylon, has one in Max Lao. The reveal is handled really well and Max is a fully developed character aside from her gender identity. Her trans status is yet another wrinkle of interesting characterization that gives some perspective on her personality and her past.
So it's not as if this can't be done well but DontNod isn't making it look good:
1. Their handling of minority issues in LiS 2 was weak at best and often cringe worthy.
2. Seeking out an activist organization for insight is a bright red flag. Seems like the road to preachy, didactic writing. Speaking with different trans people, from varying walks of life, with their own individual experiences would have been a better approach. Hopefully they did that as well.
3. They've been working on the game for two years and stated that, originally, neither of the twins were trans. Doesn't necessarily mean that aspect will feel forced in but it's not confidence inspiring either.
I'm expecting some degree of cringe (it's DontNod, afterall) but hoping it's not too bad. If it's just a few awkward moments in an otherwise good mystery game, then I'm down. But I want to hear more about how the twin memory mechanic actually works. Supposedly they both have separate memories and you can choose which one they believe. But how is that significantly different from normal narrative choices in a game like this? Since LiS 2's "influencing Daniel" mechanic was ultimately half baked I'd like some assurance on that.
So it's not as if this can't be done well but DontNod isn't making it look good:
1. Their handling of minority issues in LiS 2 was weak at best and often cringe worthy.
2. Seeking out an activist organization for insight is a bright red flag. Seems like the road to preachy, didactic writing. Speaking with different trans people, from varying walks of life, with their own individual experiences would have been a better approach. Hopefully they did that as well.
3. They've been working on the game for two years and stated that, originally, neither of the twins were trans. Doesn't necessarily mean that aspect will feel forced in but it's not confidence inspiring either.
I'm expecting some degree of cringe (it's DontNod, afterall) but hoping it's not too bad. If it's just a few awkward moments in an otherwise good mystery game, then I'm down. But I want to hear more about how the twin memory mechanic actually works. Supposedly they both have separate memories and you can choose which one they believe. But how is that significantly different from normal narrative choices in a game like this? Since LiS 2's "influencing Daniel" mechanic was ultimately half baked I'd like some assurance on that.
xrnzaaas
Member
For me it's going to be very sad with Vampyr 2. I loved the first game and it was pretty neutral for their standards, but no way it's going to be the same with the sequel.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
These people seem to be trying to force their hands into literally everything, like they're owed angelic representation. I don't see eye-to-eye with everything other similar groups like the NAACP, JDL, AALDEF etc. do, either, but at least they aren't soft-censoring creators from doing as they wish and voice any dissent after the creative vision has been realized and made available.
What GLAAD's doing just feels more like they don't trust non-LGBT people to make decent games with LGBT characters, when the truth is those games have been getting made for decades, WITHOUT their input! Also, all of these outside groups putting their finger in the pie, tend to only want the blandest, safest, most stock representation as possible and having no character flaws whatsoever. That immediately translates to boring stories with boring characters who also tend to be Mary/Gary Stus.
I hope the dev didn't outright seek GLAAD's input, because that's just going to give them and other similar groups the impression they are entitled to providing said input to other games. You've already got people like Skarkeesian attempting to bully devs for their "assistance" in "representation" or else face harassment from PC babies on Twitter. I recall GLAAD also offered their input into the recent Rocko special; it was odd seeing how none of the characters quipped at least one joke about Ralph's transition, given the show itself had some notable gay-parallel jokes in the older episodes (plus the Ed clown episode which some see as "coming out of the closet", that episode was done to be more empathetic towards him).
Dunno; these outside groups are only a degree away from the likes of the FCC, but at least the FCC only dealt with age-appropriate sex/drugs/violence (overbearingly so, but still). These groups are in prime position to moderate and police thoughts, concepts, ideas etc. that don't meet their idealized forms of representation, and that can get dangerous.
Nah, don't reduce what a man is to just these stereotypes. The kind of men who can only display these traits are not real men, they're toddlers in adult bodies. What female characters are being turned into are caricatures of men.
The truth is that the average man has some feminine virtues within them with mostly dominant masculine ones, and the average woman has some masculine virtues within them with mostly dominant feminine ones. Neither one is 100% all feminine virtues/all masculine virtues. Today's society is trying to condition women that feminine virtues (kindness, motherly instincts, nursing/caring etc.) are weak, and conflating healthy masculine virtues (sense for justice, order, stability in systems etc.) with destructive masculine virtues, while ignoring that there are complements of those within the feminine sphere.
And to top that off, they are trying to guilt men through this confusion to adapt much more feminine virtues, and pushing women to adapt destructive masculine virtues which just means they're emulating those virtues by tapping into the feminine equivalents (toxic misandry), muddling things up with some weird-as-fuck converging. The push towards ego and nihilistic/narcissistic behaviors in (mostly) Western media (traditional, social etc.) is the biggest tool being utilized.
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H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
If anyone here hasn’t played Technobabylon but likes adventure games, get on it. It’s a bloody good game, very clever and a huge amount of fun.
Birdo
Banned
Those traits are seen as typically masculine by society.
We all know it's bullshit. But that's how it is, sorry.
June
Member
I couldn't give a shit. Include whatever characters you want in your game. I reckon the input from an LGBT organisation will make this character very safe and with no rough edges, though.
Also, am I being dense, or does "trans man" not mean they were a woman who now identifies at as a man? If so, what's with the beard lol?
I'm not sure how relevant this discussion is, but...
Evolution would probably say severely disabled and ill people are worse for the species, since they can't really do anything. At least gay and infertile people have functioning bodies to work and help others.
Also, am I being dense, or does "trans man" not mean they were a woman who now identifies at as a man? If so, what's with the beard lol?
I'm not sure how relevant this discussion is, but...
Evolution would probably say severely disabled and ill people are worse for the species, since they can't really do anything. At least gay and infertile people have functioning bodies to work and help others.
The Pleasure
Member
Stunning and brave
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Gender of your character is not how generations are won.
Vampire On Titus
Member
It's not uncommon for transmen to grow beards when they're taking testosterone during hormone replacement therapy.
Hayabusabruh
Member
I did not know this. I was actually interested in this game, now I know for sure I'm not touching it. Glamorizing a mental disorder as something to be proud of like everyone seems to be doing now of days.
Radical Dreamer
Member
it's all so tiresome
Hayabusabruh
Member
Finally someone else that calls it what it is. Thank you.
RokkanStoned
Member
I assume the character being transgender is relevant to either gameplay or story, right? Otherwise it's basically pointless, making "transgender" a pointless descriptor that's utterly replaceable (do trans people want to be "trans" or do they just want to be the gender they define themselves as? if the latter, then making a character "trans" is utterly ridiculous if it doesn't actually entail any gameplay or story relevance behind it).
Hayabusabruh
Member
Probably relevant to the mom blowing her brains out. I don't know how I missed it during the trailer. She even said something like "she was never going to let me be anything other than her little girl"
RokkanStoned
Member
I missed that as well, though that line isn't an interesting one and surprisingly bland one for a game depending on writing ("he/she was never let me be anything but her/his ...." is such a blunt line and very typical stage drama line). Also, the twin aspect seems even more sketchy, as it's generally supposed to regard identical twins, which this is clearly not, unless lots of additional surgery is involved.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I'm agreeing with that, but also just highlighting how and why they're seen that way/have been conditioned into people perceiving them that way. It's all very deliberate conflation and confusion in order to destroy gender binaries and destabilize society.
...but that's getting well beyond the scope of this game
Mega yikes. Not turning this into a contest, but I've been more inspired by those young kids with horrible physical disorders and terminal illnesses (knowing they'll die before even getting a chance to really live life), than any LGBT or straight able-bodied adult I've ever seen in my life (as far as strangers go). Those kids stay humble and don't whine about all the bullshit "problems" so many LGBT and cis adults do today on social media. I admire the hell of them for that.
That's one hell of a way they "help others", as it were.
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brap
Banned
CrisPy2019
Member
Thank you very much. I wish they would have other terms like Neoman.
Because Callgirl ist a girl you call. Salesman is a man that sells. Why is a transman not a man that's trans but instead it's a woman that is... confusing
Neoman would be a man that's new which kinda is the case haha because the old version of that person was female.
Nickolaidas
Member
Why is it that when a character is something other than a straight white male, there has to be something gameplay relevant or story relevant behind that choice?
Don't get me wrong, it's obvious there's a political agenda when you see who is making this *particular* game, but in general, is this assumption of yours applicable to an African American protagonist? Or a female one? Why does a trans character has to have his transgenderedness relevant to the gameplay or the story?
LittleBusters
Banned
Microsoft saw the success of Life is Strange and other 'woke' type games on Playstation and want to emulate that. Also internally at Microsoft they have more social-justice oriented people than 10 years earlier. So even if Phil Spencer doesn't really want to do these 'woke' games, but his new philosophy is 'let the teams do whatever they want', and that means lots of social justice stuff. Microsoft internally is conducting a jihad against anyone who isn't 'fully on board' with ally training. Meaning cis-people have to be 'allies' whatever the fuck it means or ELSE. That else might mean, you're fired.
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PleaseWaitStation4
Banned
From a marketing standpoint, where do all these companies find the cash to just throw away like they've been doing since 2015? Let's ignore our audience and millennium of marketing research. I guess when you reduce it, you're left with the industry we have today. Games like this and all major game review sites infiltrated by fake reviewers. Don't let it die, peeps.
LittleBusters
Banned
Not everything is about profits. Some people just want to force their ideology and now the large corporations are part of it.