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Tell Me Why - X019 - Announce Trailer (DONTNOD - summer 2020)

Roberts

Member
To be honest, I don't feel like that stuff is forced onto us, at least I don't feel like that. I'm actually kind of glad games and movies (not just some obscure indies) are beginning to tell these stories. Also, you can always ignore the game and not play it. Will do wonders, I promise.
 
I think you should live your life the way you chose, but to some cross dressing is a sexual fantasy that needs the attention of others to fully get them off. When people they don't know give them attention and call them "stunning and brave" , it fulfills their sexual fantasies and fetishes and trying to force me to be included in ones fetish makes me feel gross. Now they use sock accounts on Twitter that try to force you into their fantasy and use it to attack ones who disagree with their fetish and it's all kind of rape-ish. There are people that go thru surgery and change sex. I think they are the ones that are more brave because they probably knew since childhood that they needed to make those changes. I have spoken.
 
Why is it that when a character is something other than a straight white male, there has to be something gameplay relevant or story relevant behind that choice?

Don't get me wrong, it's obvious there's a political agenda when you see who is making this *particular* game, but in general, is this assumption of yours applicable to an African American protagonist? Or a female one? Why does a trans character has to have his transgenderedness relevant to the gameplay or the story?

Because that's kind of where trans people generally are. They are supposed to be a woman/man, even if they are born a man/woman. In a game, if this has no representation in the game, then "trans" isn't really a thing there. Even for trans people that would just be a way to say they are trans and not "woman/man", which I imagine a lot of them would dislike. Thus, "trans" rarely has anything to do with the game unless that aspect is actually represented in some way. That's because generally trans is about outwards appearances. I guess you could make a "non-passing" trans person, but that funny enough would also not work, because it'd either be seen as a joke or it fails to account for men/women working differently along the masculine-feminine "spectrum". Trans being an internal issue with the external, really has no business other than some weird woke marketing scheme, if it isn't represented either through story or game mechanics.

The same thing doesn't work with "race" or sex, because there are clear visual representation through them. Though, I would imagine even minorities, like black people, would also like the character to feel black and more in line with "black cultures", rather than some weird cardboard cutout thrown some melanin onto. Sure, probably black people that don't fall into the stereotype or the general idea of "black culture", but I imagine such a thing can often be jarring to the minorities that's being represented. Heck, this also happens to "white males/females", where they just become these general characters, without any specific historical influences and end up like some washed up caricature.

There is an interesting issue here though. That's the fact that a minority character can be both the minority and a socioeconomic class and a geographical inhabitant, but a white person will more likely be the two latter, unless it's an immigrant (GTAIV) or a mobster (especially if italian). Is that to the detriment of the white character or the minority character? I imagine it would depend on what viewpoint one takes. Even in Infamous:SS, where the character is technically a native american tribe member, he's more an urban punk representation, depending on the opening with the Akomish tribe at Salmon Bay to represent it at all (and Betty's calls from what I remember). Even writing this, it might be a very valid criticism of the game, or it might not be, if this sorts of generational conflict or struggle between two identities that's very real (though that struggle itself needs to exist in a game, because otherwise it's just furniture). The socioeconomic and urban cultural identity might supercede and suppress the native cultural identity.
On the other hand, it might be that "white identity" or "white culture" (the reason I say most of this in quotes, is because I always feel the terms tend to be reductionistic and often misleading), is so normalized, that anything that's not specifically pointed out as minority culture is "white culture". Now there's a tons of problems with this, from multiple angles, as it either makes "white culture" all-inclusive or exclusive. More so, it just feeds into a reductionist view of culture and human relations, that creates these isolated blocks of "culture".

Sexuality is also difficult, because it kind of hinges on internal aspects and depends on the characters relations in the world. Depending on a game, a character might never show any sexual or romantic interest in a character, with sexuality being completely unknown. Even more so when it comes to bisexuality, which kinda depends on exclusion, which in a game that focuses on a single character romantic relationship is hard to judge. That said, I imagine most people would assume straight, because they'd use statistical representation in real life to assume it's most likely that the character is straight. But of course, sexuality in a game, would obviously need some representation, if a sexuality is supposed to be represented in the game. That might sound a bit circular, but to represent an internal thing in such a medium, you need to show it, not just say it. How awkward wouldn't an article describing/introducing a character being a "straight white male" be? It sounds unnatural to describe someone as that.

Knowing how to showcase identities and personality and quirks in a work is really important, rather than making them footnotes. That's why Peter Parker was such a great character, because unlike a lot of typical comic heroes, his socioeconomic background was really put into the forefront, setting him apart and allowing readers to understand him and relate to him (you should be able to even see mentions of this in the letter sections of the first Spiderman comics). That and other things like knowing how to play with the character and his flaws, made Spiderman such a success. Heck, Peter Parker was so well done, that they kept an interesting dynamic between altruism and egoism, whereupon PEter struggles between "doing the right thing"/the trauma of Ben's death and his ability to have a pleasant life, a professional career and functioning relationships. Many times Peter Parker is just a straight asshole, many times he's a guy getting needlessly shit on. It's why Peter Parker is probably my favorite comic character.
 
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Dane

Member
Because that's kind of where trans people generally are. They are supposed to be a woman/man, even if they are born a man/woman. In a game, if this has no representation in the game, then "trans" isn't really a thing there. Even for trans people that would just be a way to say they are trans and not "woman/man", which I imagine a lot of them would dislike. Thus, "trans" rarely has anything to do with the game unless that aspect is actually represented in some way. That's because generally trans is about outwards appearances. I guess you could make a "non-passing" trans person, but that funny enough would also not work, because it'd either be seen as a joke or it fails to account for men/women working differently along the masculine-feminine "spectrum". Trans being an internal issue with the external, really has no business other than some weird woke marketing scheme, if it isn't represented either through story or game mechanics.

The same thing doesn't work with "race" or sex, because there are clear visual representation through them. Though, I would imagine even minorities, like black people, would also like the character to feel black and more in line with "black cultures", rather than some weird cardboard cutout thrown some melanin onto. Sure, probably black people that don't fall into the stereotype or the general idea of "black culture", but I imagine such a thing can often be jarring to the minorities that's being represented. Heck, this also happens to "white males/females", where they just become these general characters, without any specific historical influences and end up like some washed up caricature.

There is an interesting issue here though. That's the fact that a minority character can be both the minority and a socioeconomic class and a geographical inhabitant, but a white person will more likely be the two latter, unless it's an immigrant (GTAIV) or a mobster (especially if italian). Is that to the detriment of the white character or the minority character? I imagine it would depend on what viewpoint one takes. Even in Infamous:SS, where the character is technically a native american tribe member, he's more an urban punk representation, depending on the opening with the Akomish tribe at Salmon Bay to represent it at all (and Betty's calls from what I remember). Even writing this, it might be a very valid criticism of the game, or it might not be, if this sorts of generational conflict or struggle between two identities that's very real (though that struggle itself needs to exist in a game, because otherwise it's just furniture). The socioeconomic and urban cultural identity might supercede and suppress the native cultural identity.
On the other hand, it might be that "white identity" or "white culture" (the reason I say most of this in quotes, is because I always feel the terms tend to be reductionistic and often misleading), is so normalized, that anything that's not specifically pointed out as minority culture is "white culture". Now there's a tons of problems with this, from multiple angles, as it either makes "white culture" all-inclusive or exclusive. More so, it just feeds into a reductionist view of culture and human relations, that creates these isolated blocks of "culture".

Sexuality is also difficult, because it kind of hinges on internal aspects and depends on the characters relations in the world. Depending on a game, a character might never show any sexual or romantic interest in a character, with sexuality being completely unknown. Even more so when it comes to bisexuality, which kinda depends on exclusion, which in a game that focuses on a single character romantic relationship is hard to judge. That said, I imagine most people would assume straight, because they'd use statistical representation in real life to assume it's most likely that the character is straight. But of course, sexuality in a game, would obviously need some representation, if a sexuality is supposed to be represented in the game. That might sound a bit circular, but to represent an internal thing in such a medium, you need to show it, not just say it. How awkward wouldn't an article describing/introducing a character being a "straight white male" be? It sounds unnatural to describe someone as that.

Knowing how to showcase identities and personality and quirks in a work is really important, rather than making them footnotes. That's why Peter Parker was such a great character, because unlike a lot of typical comic heroes, his socioeconomic background was really put into the forefront, setting him apart and allowing readers to understand him and relate to him (you should be able to even see mentions of this in the letter sections of the first Spiderman comics). That and other things like knowing how to play with the character and his flaws, made Spiderman such a success. Heck, Peter Parker was so well done, that they kept an interesting dynamic between altruism and egoism, whereupon PEter struggles between "doing the right thing"/the trauma of Ben's death and his ability to have a pleasant life, a professional career and functioning relationships. Many times Peter Parker is just a straight asshole, many times he's a guy getting needlessly shit on. It's why Peter Parker is probably my favorite comic character.

The reason why people complain it because nowadays its not made with one thing in mind: Love.

And by that I mean, the creators manage to create an interesting story that holds well, most of creations nowadays have poor stories and poorly developed characters which only exist to cater a totally superficial audiencie who loves political correctness and only survive for a short time before fading away. These characters doesn't go beyond their sexuality or color, as if they lived in function of that rather than their interactions in daily lives. Now, I know that maybe everything is political, but there's a difference between politics of personal life (which the politic discussion as we know is just one part) and stuff outside of it vs politics in purest form, and those people only goes for the second.

Take Spiderman as an example, Miles Morales was well received (as far as I know) and in one panel i've seen on internet shows that he thinks its absurd that there are people who praise his hero job just because he's a black latino. Kojima games are known for its heavility politics, but also their characters and setting is well developed that we manage to appreaciate the whole package, its when we realize even in those games its not all about political discussion, but even personal and philosophical ones.

Is having a game about transgender a problem? Nope

Is having a game about a black man who enbraces his african culture roots? Nope

The problem here is what those games manage to show, a game where the character who 95%-100% of the time can only act on his transgenderism/africanism part is a problem because he has just one characteristic. Its not even something like Flat Characters who doesn't change throughout the plot (like many cartoons), those have a set of descriptions and qualities.

A well developed character (heck, it doesn't even need to be a multidimensional aways, but rather well written, balanced, althrough its mostly used for secondary ones), will have his other atributes shown, like X thing, hating Y thing, going to do X stuff that leads to a event, showing his demeanor and so goes on...
 
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D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
Meh. Don't care about any of these Telltale type games. Just blah to me.

When Dontnod announces Vampyr 2, then I will be interested in what they're doing.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
Because that's kind of where trans people generally are. They are supposed to be a woman/man, even if they are born a man/woman. In a game, if this has no representation in the game, then "trans" isn't really a thing there. Even for trans people that would just be a way to say they are trans and not "woman/man", which I imagine a lot of them would dislike. Thus, "trans" rarely has anything to do with the game unless that aspect is actually represented in some way. That's because generally trans is about outwards appearances. I guess you could make a "non-passing" trans person, but that funny enough would also not work, because it'd either be seen as a joke or it fails to account for men/women working differently along the masculine-feminine "spectrum". Trans being an internal issue with the external, really has no business other than some weird woke marketing scheme, if it isn't represented either through story or game mechanics.

The same thing doesn't work with "race" or sex, because there are clear visual representation through them. Though, I would imagine even minorities, like black people, would also like the character to feel black and more in line with "black cultures", rather than some weird cardboard cutout thrown some melanin onto. Sure, probably black people that don't fall into the stereotype or the general idea of "black culture", but I imagine such a thing can often be jarring to the minorities that's being represented. Heck, this also happens to "white males/females", where they just become these general characters, without any specific historical influences and end up like some washed up caricature.

There is an interesting issue here though. That's the fact that a minority character can be both the minority and a socioeconomic class and a geographical inhabitant, but a white person will more likely be the two latter, unless it's an immigrant (GTAIV) or a mobster (especially if italian). Is that to the detriment of the white character or the minority character? I imagine it would depend on what viewpoint one takes. Even in Infamous:SS, where the character is technically a native american tribe member, he's more an urban punk representation, depending on the opening with the Akomish tribe at Salmon Bay to represent it at all (and Betty's calls from what I remember). Even writing this, it might be a very valid criticism of the game, or it might not be, if this sorts of generational conflict or struggle between two identities that's very real (though that struggle itself needs to exist in a game, because otherwise it's just furniture). The socioeconomic and urban cultural identity might supercede and suppress the native cultural identity.
On the other hand, it might be that "white identity" or "white culture" (the reason I say most of this in quotes, is because I always feel the terms tend to be reductionistic and often misleading), is so normalized, that anything that's not specifically pointed out as minority culture is "white culture". Now there's a tons of problems with this, from multiple angles, as it either makes "white culture" all-inclusive or exclusive. More so, it just feeds into a reductionist view of culture and human relations, that creates these isolated blocks of "culture".

Sexuality is also difficult, because it kind of hinges on internal aspects and depends on the characters relations in the world. Depending on a game, a character might never show any sexual or romantic interest in a character, with sexuality being completely unknown. Even more so when it comes to bisexuality, which kinda depends on exclusion, which in a game that focuses on a single character romantic relationship is hard to judge. That said, I imagine most people would assume straight, because they'd use statistical representation in real life to assume it's most likely that the character is straight. But of course, sexuality in a game, would obviously need some representation, if a sexuality is supposed to be represented in the game. That might sound a bit circular, but to represent an internal thing in such a medium, you need to show it, not just say it. How awkward wouldn't an article describing/introducing a character being a "straight white male" be? It sounds unnatural to describe someone as that.

Knowing how to showcase identities and personality and quirks in a work is really important, rather than making them footnotes. That's why Peter Parker was such a great character, because unlike a lot of typical comic heroes, his socioeconomic background was really put into the forefront, setting him apart and allowing readers to understand him and relate to him (you should be able to even see mentions of this in the letter sections of the first Spiderman comics). That and other things like knowing how to play with the character and his flaws, made Spiderman such a success. Heck, Peter Parker was so well done, that they kept an interesting dynamic between altruism and egoism, whereupon PEter struggles between "doing the right thing"/the trauma of Ben's death and his ability to have a pleasant life, a professional career and functioning relationships. Many times Peter Parker is just a straight asshole, many times he's a guy getting needlessly shit on. It's why Peter Parker is probably my favorite comic character.

All solid points.

I guess I'm one of the people who think that representation matters. While equality means that it doesn't really matter if a video game character is straight/gay/black/white/male/female/European/American/Asian or whatever, the absence of said characters could imply that the gaming world does not acknowledge their existence.

And on a more personal note, I take myself as an example.

I like playing as a straight while male, because I *am* a straight white male and I prefer my gaming avatar to be similar to my race and sexuality. While it's not a be-all-end-all situation (for some reason I always create a redguard in my first playthrough in any Elder Scrolls game and I will pick female characters in fighting games sometimes), it *is* my preference.

And since *I* think this way, I'm sure there are others who think this way as well. A woman may prefer her gaming avatar to be a female, a gay character may prefer to have gay romance options, etc.

In *this* way of thinking, I think that there should be some games which have a trans character as a protagonist, or a character creation option. While I do not disagree with your opinion that a trans person may see himself as a 'herself', we cannot dismiss the possibility that some trans people may see themselves as neither male nor female, but as something in-between. So for those transpeople, who are also gamers, this game is a solid option.
 
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I guess I'm one of the people who think that representation matters. While equality means that it doesn't really matter if a video game character is straight/gay/black/white/male/female/European/American/Asian or whatever, the absence of said characters could imply that the gaming world does not acknowledge their existence.

I doubt you'll find many that disagree that representation matters, as it's an important diversifier. I think treating identities as cardboard or window dressing isn't the representation anyone wants. Absence of a said character is also not the disacknowledgement of their existence. A historical game happening in Congo during the Bantu kingdoms, isn't going to get someone to shout out "where's my asians/white characters?!?". Such a thing is just representation for representation's sake, treating characters merely cardboard pieces, treating history and culture as irrelevant to some larger goal of representation. Heck, representation for representation's sake often ends up portraying an identity as a caricature, dumbing things down to the closest common denominator. It's often filled with lots of blunt signaling, rather than treating a character as a person of many complex identities and attributes.

Imagine a game happening in Norway during the 1950s. Of course there wouldn't be any black people or asian people present. It wasn't until around the 1970s that asylum seekers and other immigration lead to influx of people with darker skin colors. Of course, people knew they existed, but they thought black people as a rather exotic (and backwards) phenomenon during the late 19th and early 20th century. Once black people came to Norway (outside of Christian Hansen Ernst, a postmaster, which was the first black official in Norway, a slave from England that during the 17th century became the servant of the Stadtholder of Norway, Gyldenløve. And another during the early 19th century ) they were a small amount of the population and would be an unlikely person to meet. If you met them, they might be having language troubles, their experience in the local community could differ a lot, but likely a mix of being included and excluded (racism). But the characters themselves aren't just "the black characters", they'd have a cultural background from the country they emigrated from, they'd have their own particularities and tendencies.
Take Peter Parker. He's white, but what gave him an additional dimension to separate himself from the multimillionaire genius heroes, was that he came from a struggling home in Queens with a low amount of minority families, outside of jewish families,, having lost his parents, struggling with fitting in at school, while having a penchant for science as a subject. He also has an ego, he feels wronged by society/his peers, then he becomes Spiderman and the first thing he does is try to make money off it. This obsession with money and being a star, leads to him letting a criminal go, that ultimately leads to the murder of his beloved uncle. That trauma defines Peter through his whole life and it'll be what leads to a difficult marriage, a harsh financial situation and a loss of his professional ambitions.

And on a more personal note, I take myself as an example.

I like playing as a straight while male, because I *am* a straight white male and I prefer my gaming avatar to be similar to my race and sexuality. While it's not a be-all-end-all situation (for some reason I always create a redguard in my first playthrough in any Elder Scrolls game and I will pick female characters in fighting games sometimes), it *is* my preference.

I guess we're different then. Because it matters rather little to me, as long as the game respects its character and its setting. In games where you can create your character, I might make a female character, a male character, a white character or a black character or just fantastical humanoids. It's not a representation of me, as I don't feel more in line with white characters at all any more than I do black characters. I rarely have a specific goal in mind, especially given how quality of models varies a lot between games. (Playing as a male human in World of Warcraft? Nope. Made a female instead.) Heck, in Wasteland 2, I made a transgender character called "Goldilocks" Williams, which I wrote this bio for:
"Born the son of a british royalty, 24th in line of the throne, Ms. Williams enjoyed an upbringing with beluga, foie gras and ballroom dances in the royal court. Along with the privileges, expectations also followed, and when her father once caught her dressing up in her mom's dresses, they cruelly appeared. She was sent to a boarding school for boys and her father threatened that if she were ever to do something similar again, she would be killed, "... rather than our family suffering such shame". Constantly in conflict with her self of being, in which she identified herself as female, while being met with the harsh reality of outside expectations, she started to develop a persona to tackle this cruel reality. "Goldilocks" Williams, named after her favourite fairy tale and William the Conquerer, were to be her wall of shelter, in which she could build up confidence. Spending most of her school years reading books and her spare time putting on a mask while attending social gatherings her father forced her to attend, she dreamt of freedom. Eventually as her courage had built up and her desire for freedom had grown after puberty, she appeared dressed up in a ball gown on a commemoration dinner for her father, shocking everyone. Laughing while she ran out of the dining hall, she grabbed a bag of supplies she had stashed and took an airplane to America. Enjoying her newfound freedom, she was working at a burlesque club when the disaster hit. Almost starving to the death under the debris of the club, she was eventually saved by a group of Desert Rangers and eventually joined them in their cause."

Generally making characters is creative expression for me. When it comes to fixed characters, then I might care more about what kind of powers/skills/weapons they have. Or I might care especially about how I can empathize with their struggles or feel cathartic with their emotional drive, in a general way (themes of isolation, anger, vengeance, tragedy, all kinds of themes/situations/emotions that we all can feel a familiarity with).

And since *I* think this way, I'm sure there are others who think this way as well. A woman may prefer her gaming avatar to be a female, a gay character may prefer to have gay romance options, etc.

In *this* way of thinking, I think that there should be some games which have a trans character as a protagonist, or a character creation option. While I do not disagree with your opinion that a trans person may see himself as a 'herself', we cannot dismiss the possibility that some trans people may see themselves as neither male nor female, but as something in-between. So for those transpeople, who are also gamers, this game is a solid option.

There might, but there might not. In fact, maybe it's not as important as you think for most people. I asked my wife just now and she said she preferred whatever looked the best in her opinion, which is rather in line with what I do. Some might feel differently, but I've yet to see someone do this as much. The amount of horde representation in WoW also makes me view it less as a common thing. Maybe the amount of humans on the alliance side could be a sign, but even that isn't as favorable as the two races closest to the core of the Alliance (gnome, dwarf and humans), the two others are more silly or caricatures of fantasy tropes.

If some transperson views themselves as in "the middle", then that's a rather dubious position. That's because a binary system is simple and exclusionary. One which tries to get in the middle of two poles, doesn't really make much sense to me. That would severely negate a lot of the body and self-esteem issues for a transperson, since they'd be partially in sync with their perceived gender. Then it might just be a case of gender expression, since it's something working along a masculine-feminine spectrum. At that point it's seeming more like attempting to generate a third gender, but that third gender doesn't really exist in any practical way. These people seem like the people that are making things harder for transpeople, which have generally just the wish to be recognized as the gender they identify as.

Creating a transgender character that doesn't have signs of being transgender or struggles or any other relevance to being transgender, is just a "CIS male/female" character, because generally the transgender aspect is an internal issue, which wouldn't even exist if it wasn't externally represented. You can see if someone's gay, you can only assume based on stereotypes, if the story or gameplay doesn't in any way treat them as gay. A footnote is just treating a character as a cardboard figure, as a marketing tool, as token representation.

Whenever gaming companies spend times focusing on representation they're often doing a disservice to everyone. Imagine if they were instead treating characters seriously and taken the breadth of people and cultures in the world seriously? Why isn't there a game focusing on the Bantu kingdom? Or the Zulu Kingdom? What about a gay person during a time when being gay is dangerous and where you tread carefully? Or what about a gay person that represses himself because he sees himself as sinful, dealing with an environment where homosexuality is seen as sin, while that not being his biggest struggle or even the most important part of the character? That's because what most gaming companies actually have is generally little respect for minorities and minority characters. It's just a checkbox or a cardboard figure to stick in. Of course, there are many exceptions as well, but it's a general trend that can be seen in some industries, where they seem to believe minority characters can't stand on their own or that color is "irrelevant for the character"/a color palette.
 

nikolino840

Member
"We did a lot of research because it was really important for us to have a very thoughtful approach to that character creation, because it was important for us to make sure we wouldn't hurt anybody, and that we would be respectful of the trans community," says Florent Guillaume, game director of Tell Me Why.
"So, we partnered with [America-based queer advocacy group] GLAAD, and they were a great partner of our development because they helped us realise what it is to be trans, what it means for these people, what are their struggles, what are their hopes, their fears, and understand better what we have to do for the game."

That partnership with GLAAD also helped Spencer, the Xbox boss, better understand some of the differences in the queer community.
"LGBTQIA+, just the kind of acronym that it is, the understanding that some of that is sexual orientation, some of that is gender, and those are related and not related," he says.
"Like, the lead character is a transgender man, but we don't talk about his sexual orientation. That's different. I love just the education point of that… understanding that it's actually a mix of distinctions."

"It's unfortunate we can't release the game in some countries, because of its subject matter, that's absolutely true," says Joseph Staton, Microsoft's senior creative director for Tell Me Why.

More in the link

 

Dane

Member
"We did a lot of research because it was really important for us to have a very thoughtful approach to that character creation, because it was important for us to make sure we wouldn't hurt anybody, and that we would be respectful of the trans community," says Florent Guillaume, game director of Tell Me Why.
"So, we partnered with [America-based queer advocacy group] GLAAD, and they were a great partner of our development because they helped us realise what it is to be trans, what it means for these people, what are their struggles, what are their hopes, their fears, and understand better what we have to do for the game."

That partnership with GLAAD also helped Spencer, the Xbox boss, better understand some of the differences in the queer community.
"LGBTQIA+, just the kind of acronym that it is, the understanding that some of that is sexual orientation, some of that is gender, and those are related and not related," he says.
"Like, the lead character is a transgender man, but we don't talk about his sexual orientation. That's different. I love just the education point of that… understanding that it's actually a mix of distinctions."

"It's unfortunate we can't release the game in some countries, because of its subject matter, that's absolutely true," says Joseph Staton, Microsoft's senior creative director for Tell Me Why.

More in the link


GLAAD is nothing but a political whiney group, they want 20% of LGBT representation on media when 5% of the population is, that means even today they are already overrepresented.
 
Aren't DONTNOD made up of mostly left leaning people if not entirely? If that's the case then they're just making the games they want to for the audiences they want to play them.
There's no point in complaining about a DONTNOD game of all things being SJW.

It's one thing to ciritizise forced diversity or whatever when it comes to changing well established IPs to pander, but this just seems like crying wolf when they're making their own IPs.
It's equivalent to SJWs complaining when games have white male protagonists or sexy females characters.

The gap between Life Is strange 1 and all their other other games including this one is so far apart I'd say they actually weren't as nuts before. Granted they can't write a plot to save their life.
 
H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
The gap between Life Is strange 1 and all their other other games including this one is so far apart I'd say they actually weren't as nuts before. Granted they can't write a plot to save their life.

Yep - I enjoyed LIS 1 - sure there was the lesbian thing going on but it never felt preachy. Characters existed in their teenage way and the game was good solid fun, the time mechanic being a fun extension to the tired Telltale formula. The clips I've seen of LIS 2 are not that.
 

JoduanER2

Member
Didnt know this about Life is Strange 2.

"With Max and Chloe, stars of the first Life is Strange, Dontnod wanted to tackle topics like online harassment, depression, and other problems teenagers face. The sequel continues this trend. Sean and Daniel, two boys of Mexican descent, are confronted with problems related to family, immigration, and race. Despite taking place in the US, Barbet says that many of its more serious themes are, unfortunately, universal. “It’s a general society subject,” he says. “That’s why I think it works with a lot of players. They can think about their own experience and country or history.”

Fuck Dontnod with their politics and SJW shit. I bet all of them are the most left leaning crazies ever. Its so obvious what they are doing, pushing their beliefs and agendas. This is not about transgender or mexican characters, this is clearly about them wanting to push their political beliefs. They even said in an interview. Let people form their own opinions instead of telling them what they should believe by reinforcing the ideas with a narrative of what they believe is good and the rest is bad.
 
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Yep - I enjoyed LIS 1 - sure there was the lesbian thing going on but it never felt preachy. Characters existed in their teenage way and the game was good solid fun, the time mechanic being a fun extension to the tired Telltale formula. The clips I've seen of LIS 2 are not that.
Hard agree, LiS 1 got memed on for being for being "tumblr the game" because of the (misplaced) millennial slang, indie rock ost and lesbian romance. But, ultimately, there's very little in the game that's explicitly political, let alone SJW. The game touched on social issues in a non-partisan way from bullying, euthanasia to post-war PTSD. In fact, directly in line with the game's genre, at the most crucial moments regarding those issues LiS 1 let the player decide how they felt. Do you ignore or console Kate? Do you bully Victoria in turn? Are you understanding or judgmental toward David? Do you fulfill Chloe's request for assisted suicide?

It's a far, far cry from how they handled LiS 2. It's explicitly political (which isn't a problem in itself but...), offers no meaningful choice and has the nuance of a stereotypical woke twitter thread. There's a reason why the sequel has effectively split the fan base (look at the Steam community hub or LiS subreddit for a laugh). LiS 1 did develop a segment of fans who's primary enjoyment from it was minority representation. They're mostly still satisfied with LiS 2. However, there were also many who, first and foremost, enjoyed the paranormal mystery, rewind mechanic and character drama. For these fans (myself included) there's overall little to like about LiS 2.

So yeah, the notion that "DontNod was always SJW. What do you expect from them?" Is a misinformed take at best. This type of writing was not in Remember Me, Life Is Strange or Vampyr. It seems like it isn't in Twin Mirror either. Hopefully it isn't the case for Tell Me Why. Although, all signs are pointing to disaster. Especially if you read the LiS 2 interviews where they're basically talking themselves up as if they're civil rights heroes for their portrayal of Sean & Daniel lol.
 

Teslerum

Member
Life is Strange 1 was ok. Since then I'm meh on Dontnod though. (Vampyre was disappointing)

Nothing really that interests me so far in this one.
 
I want it that way?



How is he upset? People are just worried that it'll get preachy and use all of the modern SJW lingo, or the possibility of propaganda. Themes in games are fine, using ideologies for a forceful goal however deserves criticism and should be frowned upon.

There are a ton of possibilities when it comes to transgenderism so we'll see how they utilize it, people are just preparing for the worst...
So Allanah who played the demo said game is not trying to force anything on anyone. Story is not about protagonist being trans, its supernatural story just like Life is strange where main character was Lesbian but no one had any problem with it.
 
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Yep. Sony and Nintendo are ok.
Nintendo are not direct competitor for Sony. They not as financially strong to force Sony to do anything.

You acting like a immature fanboy who wants his favourite gaming console to control market without realising the fact that monopoly is not good for any market.

But i think your main reason to get upset is that they supporting transgender game. If u dont like anything then ignore it, there's no reason to get upset about it.
 
Looking at the game, it just kinda feels like it blends into the whole "Life Is Strange" aesthetic and world a bit too much, and after 3 games in a row in that universe, all their work is just kind of blending into each other. For such a narrative focused developer, you'd think they'd venture away from the whole "American Life" schtick and try their hand at other settings/genres.
 
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Mass Shift

Member
You dont like competition. You want Sony to own console market. ?

And You hating on MS coz they supported a game with Trans character?

Well that's obvious, you certainly didn't have to ask that question.

It is interesting, I thought THIS community basically embraced deep character driven stories, even with non-traditional gender based protagonists.

But it appears some (not all) have passed judgment on this game and Don't Nod/MS right from the jump. When you consider another game that's soon coming around the bend that I don't need to name................the irony in this thread is golden.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
More and more I think it's going to be validation for LGBT+ people than anything else, maybe just fucking tell me why I should care as a deplorable straight white cis male and then we talk, otherwise my 1Gbit fibre connection is too fragile to handle this many signals
 


Not mad at this clip. Obviously not much to go on but the lip sync seems like an improvement over LiS 2 and I dont immediately dislike their dynamic. Convincing VA, too, in comparison to trans men I know. If they prioritize the human drama and character study aspects of the narrative this game at least has a fighting chance imo. Ready to get burned after LiS 2, tho.
 

nikolino840

Member
Not mad at this clip. Obviously not much to go on but the lip sync seems like an improvement over LiS 2 and I dont immediately dislike their dynamic. Convincing VA, too, in comparison to trans men I know. If they prioritize the human drama and character study aspects of the narrative this game at least has a fighting chance imo. Ready to get burned after LiS 2, tho.
For the VO for Tyler in fact is a trans
August Aiden Black (@august__black): https://twitter.com/august__black?s=09
 
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-Arcadia-

Banned
I remember when it was all just about a person finding an awesome time traveling ability, a crazy prophecy of a hurricane, and her best friend.

How did we get to games about the wall, Mexicans, violent Trump supporters (lol), racist police, and IDPOL obsessed Resetera members?

Life is Strange was magical. It is easily one of my favorite games ever. This fall from grace is titanic, and seems almost solely because of the French developer's obsession with American politics, which is extra asinine.

Go back to creating wonderful mixtures of sci-fi, Americana, and genuinely incredible character bonds with the player. If I wanted to be lectured by ideologues, I'd open Twitter, and save the $60.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I remember when it was all just about a person finding an awesome time traveling ability, a crazy prophecy of a hurricane, and her best friend.

How did we get to games about the wall, Mexicans, violent Trump supporters (lol), racist police, and IDPOL obsessed Resetera members?

Life is Strange was magical. It is easily one of my favorite games ever. This fall from grace is titanic, and seems almost solely because of the French developer's obsession with American politics, which is extra asinine.

Go back to creating wonderful mixtures of sci-fi, Americana, and genuinely incredible character bonds with the player. If I wanted to be lectured by ideologues, I'd open Twitter, and save the $60.
Nothing but facts, second series was obomination. Despite me, feeling like man does not always have to be strong, the constant crying voice of the older protagonist makes me want to stop playing. And who the fuck would be running from USA to Mexico anyway, well they kind of redeem themselves with the ending, but still, did they actually find peace? Not really. So what was the fucking point. mmmhh Daniel and I. Shut the fuck.

I mean, Remember Me might not be the most refined game, but it kind of makes you think about what is it discussed in the game. And lastly Life is Strange 1 and before the storm is good, because despite how much we eolved as an individuals, there are still moments which everyone identify with.

BAE > Bay

And music, I haven't try that, but guess if I want some feels, maybe even fucking menu theme would be enough. It played a huge role in whole presentation. And that sort of meta shit, which this game creates, look at the comments:


(hint, comment was written before even side story was announced)
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Nuke Reddit:
fpl8o4fpjh751.jpg
 

Hinedorf

Banned
Reason why I won't ever play this game: "Dontnod has worked closely alongside Microsoft and the LGBTQ media advocacy organization GLAAD in shaping Tyler as an authentic representation of the trans experience, as well as a genuine, multidimensional character. "

It's a shame because I thought they were making a video game and not a social statement.
 

Shmunter

Member
Creators have a right to tell whatever tale they want. And going for a mass market usually results in a cookie cutter experience, different can be good.

Good luck with this, I’m sure the woke media will praise it to no end even if it sucks.
 
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nikolino840

Member
Is 74 on metacritic

Seems that the fact of the trans character has nothing to do with the evolving of the story
Is more a story pivoted around the family

If wasn't trans nothing change

Like all dontnod games have high parts and low parts that's why the 70ish votes

Anyway i'm starting the game now
 

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
This reminded me I never finished life is strange 2, got a code off Cd keys. Enjoying it so far. I really like Dontnod games. Once I’m done with chapter one I’ll start Life is Strange 2 over, think I was 3 chapters in on Xbox before.
 

octiny

Banned

79.

Not bad so far. Even Game Informer liked it.
 
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Reindeer

Member
A hardcore SJW studio makes a game about transgender?? Well, count me surprised. And it's bankrolled by Microsoft?? Pikachu surprise face intensifies.
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
This release totally snuck up on me but I got Game Pass for Flight Simulator so that makes it an easy decision. Loved all 3 LiS games.

Played a little bit. It feels a lot like LiS, aggressively twee, soothingly slow paced with very similar gameplay and UI. I'm not hooked yet but so far so good.
 
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