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[Jigsaah]

So to my surprise, xCloud has Tales of Vesperia so I decided to check it out. I was playing on my phone and got through the first fight.

I guess Im making this post as a cry for help. I want to experience what everyone says is so great about this game, but the first hour or so has me scratching my head. Does the combat ever switch from a 2.5D perspective? Is it the story thats really good because right now its got a Kurtzpel kinda vibe, cept Kurtzpel's combat is much better at the start in my opinion.

So if youve played through this game would you mind filling me in? I dont feel inspired to go back to it, but i will try if it eventually pays off.

Thanks for your input

 

[royox]

You are complaining about the story of a +60h jrpg after only playing 1 hour.

"Lord of the rings is shit, there are only hobbits talking in the Shire but i have only seen 10 minutes"

 

[Jack Videogames]

It starts kinda JRPGishly obscure but it clicks, give it time.

Also remember it's an HD port of a game from 2005?. Other Tales did the combat better. But yes that kind of combat is a series staple.

 

[ROMhack]

To explain, it's anime but also a game.

 

[Jigsaah]

You are complaining about the story of a +60h jrpg after only playing 1 hour.

"Lord of the rings is shit, there are only hobbits talking in the Shire but i have only seen 10 minutes"

Im not complaining, im asking questions before i end up wasting the little i have to game. Why do you seem so offended?

 

[SantaC]

Combat drastically improves with new skills and artes.

You cant review it after 1 hour.

 

[CatLady]

So to my surprise, xCloud has Tales of Vesperia so I decided to check it out. I was playing on my phone and got through the first fight.

I guess Im making this post as a cry for help. I want to experience what everyone says is so great about this game, but the first hour or so has me scratching my head. Does the combat ever switch from a 2.5D perspective? Is it the story thats really good because right now its got a Kurtzpel kinda vibe, cept Kurtzpel's combat is much better at the start in my opinion.

So if youve played through this game would you mind filling me in? I dont feel inspired to go back to it, but i will try if it eventually pays off.

Thanks for your input

I played it a long time ago on the 360 so I don't remember too well, I just remember I hated the game. Story was retarded, characters super annoying and I think remember I wasn't a fan of the combat either but I'm not sure on that one. Sorry I can't be more specific.

 

[alf717]

I had trouble understanding why everyone felt this was the best Tales game. I prefer Symphonia. I feel that game is balanced way better than Vesperia. I felt that Vesperia's skill system was very repetitive and boring. I made it through the Switch version and in the end would say the game is good but still not what I would call a top tier "Tales of" title. It comes together well in the end but just not on the level of other titles in the series. If you don't think it is for you you could always step away from it and come back to it later. I first tried the game on Xbox 360 and dropped it. Than came back and finished it on the Switch.

 

[Paltheos]

Reiterating - It's a big RPG and a Tales game to boot. You need to give it time - the cast has to come together and charm you. You have to be willing to invest the time if you're interested.

Also, for this one in particular, early-game combat is kinda butt. Yuri's standard attack string ends on him flinging his sword into the air like a dumbass. It's designed to be cancelled but you don't have the mana or skills yet to do that regularly/some other way.

 

[Jigsaah]

Combat drastically improves with new skills and artes.

You cant review it after 1 hour.

I'm not reviewing it. I'm asking for others experience to hopefully inspire (or rightfully deter) me in/from continuing on.

 

[Jigsaah]

Reiterating - It's a big RPG and a Tales game to boot. You need to give it time - the cast has to come together and charm you. You have to be willing to invest the time if you're interested.

Also, for this one in particular, early-game combat is kinda butt. Yuri's standard attack string ends on him flinging his sword into the air like a dumbass. It's designed to be cancelled but you don't have the mana or skills yet to do that regularly/some other way.

Cancelled? That's...a fighting game mechanic. If nothing else, that seems interesting.

 

[Zog]

I liked it when it came out on the 360, liked not loved. Any attempts to play it recently have failed though.

 

[Spukc]

You are complaining about the story of a +60h jrpg after only playing 1 hour.

"Lord of the rings is shit, there are only hobbits talking in the Shire but i have only seen 10 minutes"

You're fucking right lotr is shit.
Only needed 5 min.

To figure out that elf midget shit was bad.

 

[Ten_Fold]

The game uses the older tales battle system, and the game gets much better after a few hours in and once you learn more skills.

 

[Paltheos]

Cancelled? That's...a fighting game mechanic. If nothing else, that seems interesting.

Something like that. You can already do it now. Use your standard attack string and then hit your assigned combo for Azure Edge (which should be assigned by default I think - but I have no idea how this works on a phone?). You exit the standard attack string and move straight into the arte.

The game explains all this in detail but I don't remember if they do it in a meaningful fashion (like, if it throws everything at you all at once). You can cancel any move into a higher level arte, and there are.... 4 different types of artes. Basic, chain(?), divine, and mystic. Once you actually start racking up artes and skills you can really have fun.

Vesperia's the last game in the series to use this particular brand of system for attacks before moving away to the superior system used in Graces (which is just the best there is) but it's still pretty fun. Bamco also scrubbed out some of the cool endgame stuff from this game out of later ones, in particular the infinite combos packed into Vesperia in endgame, almost all of which are really easy to do lol. As much as I love Graces, enemies just popping out of combos past like the 60 mark was kinda lame and becoming outright stun immune on a moment's notice in Zestiria is frustrating.

 

[Shifty]

Cancelled? That's...a fighting game mechanic. If nothing else, that seems interesting.

Tales combat has incorporated some fighting game stuff over the years, even things like an accessory that gives you street fighter QCF/HCB/SRK inputs that let you bypass the standard arte slots and use any ability on command.

Vesperia is one of the 'MP gauge' games, which means your moveset starts pretty humdrum but eventually unfolds into having lots of options and big supers.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Tales games generally aren't good, which is why they don't sell, but Vesperia is the one that puzzles me the most. I guess it became popular because it used to be a 360 exclusive and that caused an uproar with Sony fans back then. it was also one of the earliest next gen Jrpgs that was actually playable, contributing to it's high ratings.

It's really boring with a poor plot filled with holes that drags on forever, and a convoluted battle system that becomes more irritating the longer you play.

It actually makes Tales of Symphonia look like a good game.

 

[drganon]

I thought it was okay. I personally preferred Berseria both from a gameplay and story perspective.

 

[Ethereals]

One of the better main characters, story is whatever but stick with it, there is a reason that even today many people say its the best tales game... because it is.

 

[SantaC]

Tales games generally aren't good, which is why they don't sell, but Vesperia is the one that puzzles me the most. I guess it became popular because it used to be a 360 exclusive and that caused an uproar with Sony fans back then. it was also one of the earliest next gen Jrpgs that was actually playable, contributing to it's high ratings.

It's really boring with a poor plot filled with holes that drags on forever, and a convoluted battle system that becomes more irritating the longer you play.

It actually makes Tales of Symphonia look like a good game.

Umm tales games sell pretty well.

 

[Jigsaah]

One of the better main characters, story is whatever but stick with it, there is a reason that even today many people say its the best tales game... because it is.

Yea there was a poll on it here on GAF and I'm pretty sure Vesperia won the most votes. Is there a point in the game where things really take off? I don't mind spoilers at this point.

 

[Fbh]

The combat gets better and is quite enjoyable (though it never gets amazing). As for the plot, for me it was more about the characters and their interactions. For the first 15 to 20 hours you'll just travel from one place to the other solving loosely connected issues in all of them, until it inevitably turns into a "save the world" scenario.

I liked it, it wasn't amazing nor does it rank anywhere near my favorite JRPG's, but I had fun playing through it

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Kind of in the same spot as OP, except I have maybe an hour more than him. Played plenty of JRPGs and it is true, many of them start slow, but I love it when they just thrust you into the thick of the shit right away. Xenogears comes to mind, dropping you into a tutorial for gear fighting near the very beginning.

I hope the game gets better, it feels alright, so far, but I'm left wanting at the moment.

 

[drganon]

Yea there was a poll on it here on GAF and I'm pretty sure Vesperia won the most votes. Is there a point in the game where things really take off? I don't mind spoilers at this point.

For me, the game started to get interesting once you got a fourth party member.

 

[Jigsaah]

For me, the game started to get interesting once you got a fourth party member.

Ok fair enough. I'll play it as my chill game until i get past that part.

 

[royox]

It's a game where you are not "the chosen one" or "the hero". Yuri is just a normal guy, not even a "goody two shoes", that starts chasing a thief and after that shit happens and more shit happens till big as fuck shit happens.

One of the best JRPG I ever played with the best MC of all them.

The combat starts very simple (3 hits combo + 1 arte) but learning skills you will be able to perform almost infinite combos, loads of magic spells, etc. It's the kind of game that keeps on giving the more you play.,

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Im not complaining, im asking questions before i end up wasting the little i have to game. Why do you seem so offended?

He knows how you end "the Game", Jigsaah.

But yeah, carry on as it should click down the road. Don't give up!

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Im not complaining, im asking questions before i end up wasting the little i have to game. Why do you seem so offended?

You said you were making a cry for help, after only playing for one hour and yet you knew people thought the game was great..

You cant honestly expect to not get any backlash from that

 

[Petrae]

It's one of those games, unfortunately, that requires a hefty time investment before it "gets good". There's a fuckton of exposition and table-setting, so you have to be willing to believe that the experience will improve over time.

Unlike many participants in this thread, I do evaluate whether a game is worth more of my time after an hour or so. It's not really a review, but instead a decision as to whether the game has done enough to earn more time spent with it. If it's been little more than a wall of non-interactive exposition, I'm likely done with it. If there's been at least some action and strong indications that I'm liking where the game is going, I generally stick with it for a bit longer.

 

[Shadowstar39]

So to my surprise, xCloud has Tales of Vesperia so I decided to check it out. I was playing on my phone and got through the first fight.

I guess Im making this post as a cry for help. I want to experience what everyone says is so great about this game, but the first hour or so has me scratching my head. Does the combat ever switch from a 2.5D perspective? Is it the story thats really good because right now its got a Kurtzpel kinda vibe, cept Kurtzpel's combat is much better at the start in my opinion.

So if youve played through this game would you mind filling me in? I dont feel inspired to go back to it, but i will try if it eventually pays off.

Thanks for your input

I got the switch version. I put about 5 hours in and put it down for something else. Will go back but it wasn't grabbing me. I own and like tales of xillia, abyss (3ds), and hearts r(vita). I wanted to play through those games and did. I'm not getting the same feeling with this one. It's strange how so many recommended it last Gen, maybe it was just Xbox fan Boys who were bragging about the game and it really isn't that great. I'm sure they said the same about last remnant too.

I also have graces f, and syphonia collections that I never played and probably won't until playstation 5 can play ps3 games(hopefully).

Still what's so great about this tales game that had people witnessing about it as the 2nd coming of tales games? I remember the people hyping this last Gen.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Umm tales games sell pretty well.

You're joking right?

The series just recently sold 20 million in 24 years with 42 releases with 17 of those being flagship titles. While a select few games did better than others, Tales games don't really sell well on average.

 

[Vawn]

I love JRPGs. I don't get it. I've played three Tales of games, the latest being Vesperia on Switch. I've forced myself through each, but I was bored to tears by the end of each. After Vesperia, I've promised I would stop trying to convince myself they're for me.

 

[Dada55000]

You're joking right?

The series just recently sold 20 million in 24 years with 42 releases with 17 of those being flagship titles. While a select few games did better than others, Tales games don't really sell well on average.

lol, good one man, way to disprove yourself, that means it sold more than Persona(10 mil) or SMT(17 mil)

it's a mid budget JRPG series that sells 200k-500k with each main game during their launch period, the last 2 main entries(Zestiria&Berseria) both sold more than 1 mil WW

those are great numbers for what they are

I love JRPGs. I don't get it. I've played three Tales of games, the latest being Vesperia on Switch. I've forced myself through each, but I was bored to tears by the end of each. After Vesperia, I've promised I would stop trying to convince myself they're for me.

if you're looking for novelty weird eccentric JRPG shit, these games are not it, they're anime adventure globetrotting with good action combat

 

[DeliciousDoc]

I bought it for xbox, playstation and for pc. I think the game starts pretty average but as you get more invested in it it becomes more interesting. It isn't vastly different from other tales games except the protag is kind of an anti hero which was a change from the series at that point.

Here is what I like :

unlocking skills from gear to "modify" the battle system. Stuff like insta casting spells, just input insta kill, etc.

A lot of stuff "levels up" as you use it including battle moves. Unlocks combined skills.

A -lot- of party banter.

Story was interesting.

Like romhack said it's an anime but i'd say it's an anime/rpg/fighting game. By anime I mean,not a season, but a full series from start to beginning in terms of scale. Tales games often change in focus 2 or 3 times within the same game.

Just a heads up that there are "missables". Particularly missions you get for bosses starting around the middle of the game.

If you don't like "tales" games this one probably won't change your mind but I think it's a good "tales" game.

There's a boss that has a sudden difficulty spike. The game picks up after that boss in my opinion because you have to play "properly" and you get the nuances of the battle system.

 

[foxdvd]

It has a dog with a pipe...enough said..

 

[Paltheos]

Tales games generally aren't good, which is why they don't sell, but Vesperia is the one that puzzles me the most. I guess it became popular because it used to be a 360 exclusive and that caused an uproar with Sony fans back then. it was also one of the earliest next gen Jrpgs that was actually playable, contributing to it's high ratings.

It's really boring with a poor plot filled with holes that drags on forever, and a convoluted battle system that becomes more irritating the longer you play.

It actually makes Tales of Symphonia look like a good game.

Nah, man. I could get onboard with 'aren't great', but almost all of these games are good. While I'm playing I remark to myself these games are like perfect B games. They don't try to be high art, but they polish what they do well and mix old things up just enough to stay fresh (and some parts of that work and others fail miserably). Colorful playable casts, fun party dynamics, exciting combat, and loud music - These are things Tales games do well (with some asterisks by that last point because Sakuraba's style often falls flat on its face in a good deal of the settings you see in these games). The main plots generally kinda suck but we're mostly ok with that. They're adequate for the other elements of the game to work.

 

[Bathtub Fart]

If you love schlocky anime writing you'll love it.

 

[belmarduk]

So to my surprise, xCloud has Tales of Vesperia so I decided to check it out. I was playing on my phone and got through the first fight.

I guess Im making this post as a cry for help. I want to experience what everyone says is so great about this game, but the first hour or so has me scratching my head. Does the combat ever switch from a 2.5D perspective? Is it the story thats really good because right now its got a Kurtzpel kinda vibe, cept Kurtzpel's combat is much better at the start in my opinion.

So if youve played through this game would you mind filling me in? I dont feel inspired to go back to it, but i will try if it eventually pays off.

Thanks for your input

I love Tales, but they are all quite similar. Most will disagree, but Tales of Zesteria is far better than Vesperia... and has empathic characters.

 

[BrandNewMe]

It's a fun game and one of the best overall Tales of games, at least of the ones who are localized, but yeah, it's really overrated, and the worst thing about it is its boring story. And it really does not get better.

Personally I found the combat super fun, but it takes a while to open up.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

lol, good one man, way to disprove yourself, that means it sold more than Persona(10 mil) or SMT(17 mil)

it's a mid budget JRPG series that sells 200k-500k with each main game during their launch period, the last 2 main entries(Zestiria&Berseria) both sold more than 1 mil WW

those are great numbers for what they are

How does that disprove me? I never said Persona or SMT sold well, talk about being a petty punk because your favorite poor selling series doesn't sell.

42 games not including some mobile, in nearly 25 years selling 20 million THIS YEAR is bad. The series doesn't sell much at all and some outlier games that did better than the others doesn't change that.

It's another niche jrpg franchise that barely changes and doesn't cater to anyone but a select group.

Theres really no excuse for these sales even if you want to find one, especially based on several of the games marketing. All Namco is doing is selling to the same base which when looking at data, is dwindling outside some lucky outliers that got exposure due to droughts on the system they were on in Japan.

Also 1 million worldwide isn't impressive if 89% of sales are in japan and mostly due to release at a good time with good marketing during a game drought, as well as a Jrpg one. It's like the Wii, got lucky but the trend still shows the series sales going down.

Are there franchise that do worse? Yes, relative to budget. Doesn't make this any less bad.

Nah, man. I could get onboard with 'aren't great', but almost all of these games are good. While I'm playing I remark to myself these games are like perfect B games. They don't try to be high art, but they polish what they do well and mix old things up just enough to stay fresh (and some parts of that work and others fail miserably). Colorful playable casts, fun party dynamics, exciting combat, and loud music - These are things Tales games do well (with some asterisks by that last point because Sakuraba's style often falls flat on its face in a good deal of the settings you see in these games). The main plots generally kinda suck but we're mostly ok with that. They're adequate for the other elements of the game to work.

I get you want to defend the series but this post doesn't help. Especially calling the plots of games like Symphonia and Vesperia adequate.

It's a game where you are not "the chosen one" or "the hero". Yuri is just a normal guy, not even a "goody two shoes", that starts chasing a thief and after that shit happens and more shit happens till big as fuck shit happens.

One of the best JRPG I ever played with the best MC of all them.

The combat starts very simple (3 hits combo + 1 arte) but learning skills you will be able to perform almost infinite combos, loads of magic spells, etc. It's the kind of game that keeps on giving the more you play.,

Actually toward the end of the game, you and the two co-protagonists are basically chosen ones.

 

[Dada55000]

How does that disprove me? I never said Persona or SMT sold well, talk about being a petty punk because your favorite poor selling series doesn't sell.

42 games not including some mobile, in nearly 25 years selling 20 million THIS YEAR is bad. The series doesn't sell much at all and some outlier games that did better than the others doesn't change that.

It's another niche jrpg franchise that barely changes and doesn't cater to anyone but a select group.

Theres really no excuse for these sales even if you want to find one, especially based on several of the games marketing. All Namco is doing is selling to the same base which when looking at data, is dwindling outside some lucky outliers that got exposure due to droughts on the system they were on in Japan.

Also 1 million worldwide isn't impressive if 89% of sales are in japan and mostly due to release at a good time with good marketing during a game drought, as well as a Jrpg one. It's like the Wii, got lucky but the trend still shows the series sales going down.

Are there franchise that do worse? Yes, relative to budget. Doesn't make this any less bad.

You made a mess there buddy. You sure you don't need to change your nappy?

Noone said it was FF tier you tick. It's a mid budget JRPG series, with mid budget sales expectations/achievements. Its numbers are fine-to-good, in its field. You going full baby and saying "not by MY metric" means nothing. Nobody gives a shit, least of all reality.
Series has been selling more with recent entries, that's why the last 2 cracked 1 million, which is sth that hasn't happened since Symphonia (maybe Xillia 1 did). Popularity has increased outside Japan, sales are half and half. The 'trend' is literally in the opposite direction.
I remember that 2 year long game drought when those 2 came out, there was no alternative in those 700 days. This is the dumbest thing you wrote.

Sorry I infringed on your fantasy there, you seem really emotionally invested in it.

 

[Paltheos]

I get you want to defend the series but this post doesn't help. Especially calling the plots of games like Symphonia and Vesperia adequate.

??
Why? That's how I feel. Same as everything else.
I'm defending how I think they're strong B games (by design). That means they're gonna have some weak points. I don't see how not being honest helps.

 

[Daymos]

Im not complaining, im asking questions before i end up wasting the little i have to game. Why do you seem so offended?

If you don't have alot of time then IMO you shouldn't play it. There are far better games to play if investing 60+ hours is a huge undertaking. I play maybe 60 hours a month and I wasn't overly happy that I played tales of V back in march of this year.

I think it took me about 100 hours to do most of the stuff in the game. I loved it at first.. but by the end I kind of disliked it because it got monotonous & cliche in combat and story. I was very happy to stop playing it. The battle system gets deep but it can be hard to pull off complex combos and you can beat the game by just spamming that 1 combo you know over and over. By the end my wife was like 'well why the hell are you playing it if you hate it so much?! ' and I'm like 'I've played 80 hours! If I quit now I'll have to burn the game because I won't be able to stand owning it!'

I've had way more fun this year with dragon quest 11, fire emblem, and dragon quest builders2. Heck I also beat dragon quest 7 and Alliance alive on 3ds this year and had a better time with those two.. and dq7 is a huge drag of a game.

 

[Cornbread78]

While I enjoyed my time with the game, Outside of Yuri, I find Xillia, Graces f, Zesteria and especially Berseria vastly superior in every way. Some of the voice acting with Rita and Karol was soooooooooo bad that is ruined potentially good cut-scenes..


I still contend that the over-hype for Vesperia was due to it being MS exclusive in the west for all those years.

 

[Dunki]

Yeah I am in the same boat. I played it like 30 hours but somehow totally do not want to play anymore. It just did not click with me. Meanwhile Xillia, Zesteria and especially Berseria finished wy too quickly. I never played Vesperia before since It was a MS exclusive for such a long time. But somehow I missed the hype train on this one

Also going back to this old battlesystem did not help AT ALL...

 

[CatLady]

I love JRPGs. I don't get it. I've played three Tales of games, the latest being Vesperia on Switch. I've forced myself through each, but I was bored to tears by the end of each. After Vesperia, I've promised I would stop trying to convince myself they're for me.

I got the game thru GameFly when I first got back into console gaming. I was excited to play anything on the 360 and played it all the way through. I was bored & HATED it all the way through.

Full disclosure: Having been a fan of JRPGs in the NES/SNES era, this game along with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey and after playing Oblivion my 1st WRPG I realized I hate JRPGs now.

 

[Belmonte]

I'm surprised how many people didn't like it.

I'm playing it for the first time also and at the 10th hour of the game. I like the art, the characters and the story. Found the protagonist more interesting than the typical JRPG main character. Yuri is not an anti hero like I was expecting, only a hero with a more realistic and adult point of view.

The battle system is a little bit of an improvement of Tales of Symphonia and feels more natural, with cooler skills and moves.

There are two things I don't like much about the game:

* I wish there were more exploration. The game feels linear in the beginning. I hope it opens more.

* There are too many conversations which hurts the pace. Everytime there is a skit, even after a lenghty cutscene. I supose I could skip them but many of them are interesting and show more about the characters or world. I would prefer if they cut the fat and use them more sparingly. I want to play the game! There are some dungeons that I had moments like cutscene - skit - one battle - skit - one battle - skit! Bruh...

 

[Vawn]

I got the game thru GameFly when I first got back into console gaming. I was excited to play anything on the 360 and played it all the way through. I was bored & HATED it all the way through.

Full disclosure: Having been a fan of JRPGs in the NES/SNES era, this game along with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey and after playing Oblivion my 1st WRPG I realized I hate JRPGs now.

That's too bad. I though Lost Odyssey was a great game, though I'm with you on Blue Dragon - I could not enjoy that game much, though I did finish it.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Noone said it was FF tier you tick.

Neither did I, showing you are acting very desperate.

I don't care if you like or hate the series, it's a upper mid-tier franchise that had a few somewhat higher budget games across 24 years and over 42 games selling 20 million units, that's not a good figure no matter how much you want to pretend it is.

It's not my metric either, we have mid-tier rpgs to compare with Tales, and tales is the worst of all of them from a release to sales ratio. That's why despite selling 20 million very few people know what it is outside japan and why even their sales are inconsistent per entry. Also no, popularity has not increase,d outside japan, it's just the last few games before did so poorly that they consider the slightly higher sales an increase when it's still behind mid 2000's levels.

Just because your favorite series doesn't sell well doesn't stop it from being your favorite series, calm down. It's ok to like Niche games, I like YS and that doesn't sell, it's cool man.

I still contend that the over-hype for Vesperia was due to it being MS exclusive in the west for all those years.

Makes sense, they marketed this and Blue Dragon heavily early on to appeal to the Japanese and Final Fantasy fans in the west. Arguably they did this to attract Square so they could get FFXIII which in hindsight was a mistake, they should have just kept funding Jrpgs and let Sony keep the hallway simulator.

 

[Dada55000]

Neither did I, showing you are acting very desperate.

I don't care if you like or hate the series, it's a upper mid-tier franchise that had a few somewhat higher budget games across 24 years and over 42 games selling 20 million units, that's not a good figure no matter how much you want to pretend it is.

It's not my metric either, we have mid-tier rpgs to compare with Tales, and tales is the worst of all of them from a release to sales ratio. That's why despite selling 20 million very few people know what it is outside japan and why even their sales are inconsistent per entry. Also no, popularity has not increase,d outside japan, it's just the last few games before did so poorly that they consider the slightly higher sales an increase when it's still behind mid 2000's levels.

Just because your favorite series doesn't sell well doesn't stop it from being your favorite series, calm down. It's ok to like Niche games, I like YS and that doesn't sell, it's cool man.

"Wah, but I'm right" No you're still not. You backpedalled so hard that you're now claiming 20mil divided by 42 = why it's bad, dropping 'the games sell bad' and 'only Japanese buy it' parts of your argument, and what you did now is a laughably irrelevant averaging of sales per game, going back 20+ years. The metric for how well something is selling currently, well, is the sales of the last several games, and the whether they're trending up or down. Which have, as already stated, last couple sold more than 1 mill, a very good number for mid range JRPGs, and it's trending up. This was the thing disproving you from the word go. Once again, sorry for shitting on your emotional investment in disproven arguments.