Support NeoGAF

[Rick Dangerous]

But if MS goes it leaves Sony in a monopolistic position, which in turn means you would have to root for someone to dethrone them. No?

It’s an unwavering paradox.

The difference is that Sony weights $60 Mds of cap whereas Microsoft weights $1000 Mds... people tend to forget that Microsoft runs Azure, whose plain go0al is to drain money on a recurring pattern. With the advent of other GAFAs, Ms looked like the cool guys, but they are not. Sony on the other hand is mostly entertainment and more importantly does not try to run my life and my job...
Today, anyone mostly vote with its wallet.

 

[Kagey K]

The difference is that Sony weights $60 Mds of cap whereas Microsoft weights $1000 Mds... people tend to forget that Microsoft runs Azure, whose plain go0al is to drain money on a recurring pattern. With the advent of other GAFAs, Ms looked like the cool guys, but they are not. Sony on the other hand is mostly entertainment and more importantly does not try to run my life and my job...
Today, anyone mostly vote with its wallet.

I was talking strictly about gaming. You are bringing in different businesses to hold a grudge against their gaming division. I’d be more worried about Facebook, Google and Amazon then I would Azure, but none of that is relevant to this discussion.

 

[pr0cs]

more importantly does not try to run my life and my job...

ITT, Microsoft and Xbox is ruining lives, won't someone think of the children.?

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Gamepass works as a service because of the value it gives back.

That is until it becomes a platform for open Alpha and Beta testing of games.

 

[FireFly]

This is how it always is in MS threads. They act like MS has it all figured out and that everyone will be forced to bow down to them and that nobody will be able to do anything. It is all fantasyland stuff. What happens when other publishers decide they'd rather start their own streaming service than negotiate their games into Gamepass?

EA and Ubisoft (on PC) already have their own subscription services, so I am sure others will attempt it. But it is tradeoff between a larger cut of a small subscriber base vs. a smaller cut of a much larger subscriber base. And it is much harder to convince someone to subscribe to a new service than it is to convince them to keep paying for an existing one, since human beings are motivated by loss aversion.

We don't know how successful Microsoft will be, but the other side of the coin is people assuming with no evidence that Microsoft can *only* keep consumers by giving Game Pass away for free, and that they won't be able to sustain the service at any level. Already in this thread, someone is comparing it to Blockbuster, as if Game Pass was a service where you had to call up Microsoft and get them to mail you a new game.

Presumably there is some middle ground between Game Pass is worthless and Game Pass will destroy Nintendo and Sony?

 

[12Dannu123]

EA and Ubisoft (on PC) already have their own subscription services, so I am sure others will attempt it. But it is tradeoff between a larger cut of a small subscriber base vs. a smaller cut of a much larger subscriber base. And it is much harder to convince someone to subscribe to a new service than it is to convince them to keep paying for an existing one, since human beings are motivated by loss aversion.

We don't know how successful Microsoft will be, but the other side of the coin is people assuming with no evidence that Microsoft can *only* keep consumers by giving Game Pass away for free, and that they won't be able to sustain the service at any level. Already in this thread, someone is comparing it to Blockbuster, as if Game Pass was a service where you had to call up Microsoft and get them to mail you a new game.

Presumably there is some middle ground between Game Pass is worthless and Game Pass will destroy Nintendo and Sony?

Disney will be losing Billions 4.5 Billion in 2020 and Disney+ taking 2.5 Billion of that number, and that's not for putting their content day 1 on Disney+. Disney is big enough to absorb the losses because streaming is not their core business. For smaller companies in the gaming industry, the burden is simply too big. To avoid the losses you either.

1. Have a high price for the subscription
2. Increase in Microtransactions, MTX
3. Reduce the amount of output from third parties and first-party released on the service.

Microsoft is likely loosing at least 1 Billion per year on Game Pass.

It's too difficult for companies like EA, Ubisoft, Sony to be profitable and while maintaining the same output as Game Pass on First Party, Indies and Third Party games.

EA, gaming is their core business for example only releases 4 games per year onto their service.

So in summary the key for smaller companies in the gaming industry to sustain their service is to try to absorb the short term losses in the service which could be in the Billions. Moviepass is an example that couldn't survive the short term losses made. If they survive the losses long enough, they will eventually gain a profit.

 

[Kagey K]

Gamepass saved my girlfriends nephews this Christmas. Her sister and husband have been having a rough go the last couple years, but this year was especially bad for them. They decided to buy their 3 boys an XB1 as a big family gift this year.

They were happy, and that’s what really matters, but we decided to help step it up a notch. After we found out what they got, I bought a couple years of gold and sent the codes to the oldest (17) and then after he put the codes in got him to link his debit card and do the Ultimate upgrade.

You should have heard the kids go nuts after they saw what they could download and play, my gf sister said “Wow that’s the price for games” after she saw the strikethrough on some of the games pricing.

Regardless we helped turn a mediocre Xmas into a great one for her family, and to me that’s what Xmas should be all about.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Gamepass saved my girlfriends nephews this Christmas. Her sister and husband have been having a rough go the last couple years, but this year was especially bad for them. They decided to buy their 3 boys an XB1 as a big family gift this year.

They were happy, and that’s what really matters, but we decided to help step it up a notch. After we found out what they got, I bought a couple years of gold and sent the codes to the oldest (17) and then after he put the codes in got him to link his debit card and do the Ultimate upgrade.

You should have heard the kids go nuts after they saw what they could download and play, my gf sister said “Wow that’s the price for games” after she saw the strikethrough on some of the games pricing.

Regardless we helped turn a mediocre Xmas into a great one for her family, and to me that’s what Xmas should be all about.

This heartfelt message was brought to you by Microsoft

Spoiler

good on you for putting a smile on the kid's faces

 

[Kagey K]

This heartfelt message was brought to you by Microsoft

Spoiler

good on you for putting a smile on the kid's faces

TBH I didn’t even want to mention it, because I know what kind of responses it’s going to get, but the sheer joy on some of them. The 12 year old was like “buy this, buy this.”

I just haven’t seen that much excitement on a kids face for a long time and felt like this was a good place to share the story.

 

[DanielsM]

Disney will be losing Billions 4.5 Billion in 2020 and Disney+ taking 2.5 Billion of that number, and that's not for putting their content day 1 on Disney+. Disney is big enough to absorb the losses because streaming is not their core business. For smaller companies in the gaming industry, the burden is simply too big. To avoid the losses you either.

1. Have a high price for the subscription
2. Increase in Microtransactions, MTX
3. Reduce the amount of output from third parties and first-party released on the service.

Microsoft is likely loosing at least 1 Billion per year on Game Pass.

It's too difficult for companies like EA, Ubisoft, Sony to be profitable and while maintaining the same output as Game Pass on First Party, Indies and Third Party games.

EA, gaming is their core business for example only releases 4 games per year onto their service.

So in summary the key for smaller companies in the gaming industry to sustain their service is to try to absorb the short term losses in the service which could be in the Billions. Moviepass is an example that couldn't survive the short term losses made. If they survive the losses long enough, they will eventually gain a profit.

Not sure wtf you are talking, EA access has existed before GP and they have paying customers, but at the end of the day no real demand for any of this... its not about short term loses...its about no demand.

No, your guess is short term losses only....but none of this short term anymore...there has to be demand....there really no demand which is why you are astroturfing.

 

[FireFly]

Not sure wtf you are talking, EA access has existed before GP and they have paying customers, but at the end of the day no real demand for any of this... its not about short term loses...its about no demand.

Evidence?

 

[DanielsM]

Evidence?

Evidence.... Ea access has only 3m customers see their financials....Ms has to get it away.

An Bunch of MS astroturfing, like during the xbone launch....desperation.

 

[Dane]

The day MS leaves the hardware market is the day Sony begins planning all the ways they are going to ream your ass with anti-consumer bullshit.

Competition is good for consumers.

And you know nothing of what Sega may have become if they were still in the console space, stop talking out of your ass.

People really have a fetish to see Microsoft out of competition, if Microsoft wanted, they could do a Thanos Snap and buy biggest studios and publishers like EA, Square and Take Two and lockdown the market, but they won't because it would be completely unprofitable (hence why I doubt potential CDPR acquisition rumors).

 

[quest]

Evidence.... Ea access has only 3m customers see their financials....Ms has to get it away.

An Bunch of MS astroturfing, like during the xbone launch....desperation.

Just because a lot of us see great value in the service does not make it astroturfing. I wish because I could use that big fat check from Phil and Major Nelson. I think with deals I spent 130 or do usd dollars for my 3 years of gamepass ultimate best deal I can think of for console gaming.

 

[Nikana]

Evidence.... Ea access has only 3m customers see their financials....Ms has to get it away.

An Bunch of MS astroturfing, like during the xbone launch....desperation.

Asks for evidence, gives none but an opinion and claims it as facts. Why are you allowed to post here still?

 

[DanielsM]

Just because a lot of us see great value in the service does not make it astroturfing. I wish because I could use that big fat check from Phil and Major Nelson. I think with deals I spent 130 or do usd dollars for my 3 years of gamepass ultimate best deal I can think of for console gaming.

I find all kinds of things of great value, doesn't mean I would start another fucking thread on it every day. Literally, its a rental service i.e. Blockbuster... but even if it were great, not sure with the new threads all the freaking time. There really isn't any real demand... the demand comes in when they give it away i.e. sell a dollar for a quarter. This is like the Xbone days with the infinite power of the da cloud bs.... than Microsoft had employees which were being caught astroturfing, I myself found a MS contractor on Major Nelson's blog.

You don't see people staring EA Access threads every days and its probably makes the most revenue if I were to guess... but at the end of the day no real business model there. Either way, its just a Blockbuster service which is why nobody really gives a shit other than the people creating Game Pass threads.

At the end of the day even if a company could find a good business model... all the major publisher either have their own service or are rolling them out.

 

[FireFly]

Evidence.... Ea access has only 3m customers see their financials....Ms has to get it away.

1.) They're giving away the service in order to grow their subscriber base. Moreover, if the promotions they run didn't grow their subscriber numbers, then it wouldn't be rational for them to continue them, since they can see exactly who continues after the trial is over.
2.) You can't infer Game Pass subscriber numbers from EA Access, since the two services are different.
3.) Can you really claim that 3M+ subscribers for a service indicates zero demand? In the absolute worst case where Game Pass subscriptions + microtransactions can't support the full first party output, Microsoft could still migrate games on to the service like EA does. And with xcloud you have the additional value of being able to stream those games anywhere.

Again, I find it super strange how Game Pass is apparently either going to revolutionize everything or is completely worthless. Is it really so hard to believe, instead, that a certain proportion of the Xbox user base would be prepared to pay monthly to have ongoing access to the back catalogue?

 

[DanielsM]

1.) They're giving away the service in order to grow their subscriber base. Moreover, if the promotions they run didn't grow their subscriber numbers, then it wouldn't be rational for them to continue them, since they can see exactly who continues after the trial is over.
2.) You can't infer Game Pass subscriber numbers from EA Access, since the two services are different.
3.) Can you really claim that 3M+ subscribers for a service indicates zero demand? In the absolute worst case where Game Pass subscriptions + microtransactions can't support the full first party output, Microsoft could still migrate games on to the service like EA does. And with xcloud you have the additional value of being able to stream those games anywhere.

Again, I find it super strange how Game Pass is apparently either going to revolutionize everything or is completely worthless. Is it really so hard to believe, instead, that a certain proportion of the Xbox user base would be prepared to pay monthly to have ongoing access to the back catalogue?

Yes, like they were giving away money to Xbox users and losing billions on hardware? To grow their install base? No real difference... they are trying to sell a dollar for really a nickel.

Of course, they are trying to grow their install base the issue is... they can't do it without giving it away.

I didn't infer Game Pass numbers from EA Access... EA Access at least has paying customers... Microsoft has to give it away.

3m customers is fucking squat... literally Spider-Man did more revenue in probably a few hours than all these silly rental programs have done combined in their lifetime ----- literally the definition of no demand in my book.

I find something that is going to revolutionize everything is nothing new.... and all you silly people act like its new and revolutionary.... its so great they can't get people to pay for it.

1. Nothing new
2. Many other providers
3. Even if rental programs became the norm, all the publishers either have their own service or are rolling them out.... we don't see threads on all these others service every 5 minutes
4. Is really just a rental program i.e. Blockbuster big fucking whoopie doo
5. No real paying customers
6. No real business sustainable business model
7. A bunch of delusional fans or astroturfers

Literally this is all a big fucking NOTHING..... there really isn't anything great about any of this.... if they did... they would massive amounts of paying customers.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

People really have a fetish to see Microsoft out of competition, if Microsoft wanted, they could do a Thanos Snap and buy biggest studios and publishers like EA, Square and Take Two and lockdown the market, but they won't because it would be completely unprofitable (hence why I doubt potential CDPR acquisition rumors).

It seems to me like MS fanboys really have a fetish to convince everyone that MS now rules the world and will own next generation. This is despite the fact that many of the features they were loudly boasting about haven't moved the needle one direction in MS favor.

Serious talk here:
Despite how it seems, I want MS to succeed and be competitive. However, I do not want them winning (unless Sony does something crazy stupid). I don't think they make good winners and I really don't want Gamepass to succeed as I think that long term it has the potential to be a net negative on the industry.

Why? I simply do not believe it is sustainable for MS to put $100M+ AAA games Day 1, even at $14.99 a month. Unless Gamepass is a godlike success and has an attach rate that exceeds Nintendo level attachments, then maybe. But even then, there are concerns as shareholders will want to maximize profits. If that fails to happen, I am concerned that the quality of MS AAA games drastically decreasing. Instead of being the outstanding game it is now (Gears 5 was outstanding IMO) suddenly Gears 6 is a 2 hour campaign with a 6 month development time with tons of microtransactions and DLC. That's the future I am afraid Gamepass will lead to.
Other Gamepass concerns that are being ignored:
1. How is the subscription market going to look by the time that many of these $1 trial offers expire? Will the market be able to handle more subscription services by then? We are well in a place where people are subscribed to too many things and many people are looking to cut back. Cord cutting is still a thing and subscription cutting is starting to happen. It's reaching (if it hasn't already reached) saturation. Gamepass does have the advantage of being the only game-centric subscription service, while all others are movies/series focused.

To be clear, there is no question that Gamepass is an outstanding value as I took advantage of the $1 offer and am locked in until Dec. 2021. I went to Costco and bought two year Xbox Live membership cards for around $80 and then converted to Ultimate for $1.

Here is how I would have done Gamepass (criticize it all you want) in a way that would IMO negate the potential negatives I have concerns about:
1. I would lower the price to around $6.99 ($10.99 with Live) a month and/or $59.99 a year ($99.99 with Live).
2. Limit it to games that have been on the market a year or longer.
3. Give a discount to games less than a year old.

That IMO would still offer excellent value and would be the perfect additional gift to offer to a new system. Rip it to shreds if you want.

In short, I just want MS fanboys/shills to STFU. Instead of screaming through the rooftops that they're the greatest ever and going to take over the world. Just for once, be smart and let the results do all the talking. Let's see some actual evidence that MS is changing things. Rest assured that if MS starts cutting into Sony's huge lead they will announce it like crazy, just like they did during the 360 era.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Yes, like they were giving away money to Xbox users and losing billions on hardware? To grow their install base? No real difference... they are trying to sell a dollar for really a nickel.

Of course, they are trying to growing their install base the issue is... they can't do it without giving it away.

I didn't infer Game Pass numbers from EA Access... EA Access at least has paying customers... Microsoft has to give it away.

3m customers is fucking squat... literally Spider-Man did more revenue in probably a few hours than all these silly rental programs have done combined in their lifetime ----- literally the definition of no demand in my book.

I find something that is going to revolutionize everything is nothing new.... and all you silly people act like its new and revolutionary.... its so great they can't get people to pay for it.

1. Nothing new
2. Many other providers
3. Even if rental programs became the norm, all the publishers either have their own service or are rolling them out.... we don't see threads on all these others service every 5 minutes
4. Is really just a rental program i.e. Blockbuster big fucking whoopie doo
5. No real paying customers
6. No real business sustainable business model
7. A bunch of delusional fans or astroturfers

Literally this is all be big fucking NOTHING..... there really isn't anything great about any of this.... if they did... they would massive amounts of paying customers.

We all know MS started on the wrong foot this gen under Don Mattrick. Everything they're doing is just setting the stage for next Gen. By putting their games on Games Pass from day one what there doing is pulling people into their ecosystem getting as many on board with xbox franchises and their library as they can so when the new games roll around these people will have a reason to consider Xbox. Only a company with a fuckton of money can pull something like this off and it also shows there commitment to video games. That they are willing to take losses now and buy all these studios because they are in it for the long haul.

 

[DanielsM]

This is how it always is in MS threads. They act like MS has it all figured out and that everyone will be forced to bow down to them and that nobody will be able to do anything. It is all fantasyland stuff. What happens when other publishers decide they'd rather start their own streaming service than negotiate their games into Gamepass?

My guess has been there is an astroturfing campaign by MS for about a year, once all those studios purchases started going through.

Some of this is quite bizarre, its basically this..... "I use Blockbusters to rent video games, Family Video sucks".

New day, let's start another thread on Blockbuster.

 

[DanielsM]

We all know MS started on the wrong foot this gen under Don Mattrick. Everything they're doing is just setting the stage for next Gen. By putting their games on Games Pass from day one what there doing is pulling people into their ecosystem getting as many on board with xbox franchises and their library as they can so when the new games roll around these people will have a reason to consider Xbox. Only a company with a fuckton of money can pull something like this off and it also shows there commitment to video games. That they are willing to take losses now and buy all these studios because they are in it for the long haul.

Yeah, its called Blockbusters. It would be like seeing new threads on Redbox everyday here, nothing bad about Redbox, but at the end of the day its just a rental service.

Nice commercial btw.

Only a company with a fuckton of money can pull something like this off

Oh yeah, they've been throwing money right down the fucking toilet for 20 years on gaming, no disagreement there from me but at the end of the day I don't see what that has to do with my comments.

 

[Nikana]

It seems to me like MS fanboys really have a fetish to convince everyone that MS now rules the world and will own next generation. This is despite the fact that many of the features they were loudly boasting about haven't moved the needle one direction in MS favor.

Serious talk here:
Despite how it seems, I want MS to succeed and be competitive. However, I do not want them winning (unless Sony does something crazy stupid). I don't think they make good winners and I really don't want Gamepass to succeed as I think that long term it has the potential to be a net negative on the industry.

Why? I simply do not believe it is sustainable for MS to put $100M+ AAA games Day 1, even at $14.99 a month. Unless Gamepass is a godlike success and has an attach rate that exceeds Nintendo level attachments, then maybe. But even then, there are concerns as shareholders will want to maximize profits. If that fails to happen, I am concerned that the quality of MS AAA games drastically decreasing. Instead of being the outstanding game it is now (Gears 5 was outstanding IMO) suddenly Gears 6 is a 2 hour campaign with a 6 month development time with tons of microtransactions and DLC. That's the future I am afraid Gamepass will lead to.
Other Gamepass concerns that are being ignored:
1. How is the subscription market going to look by the time that many of these $1 trial offers expire? Will the market be able to handle more subscription services by then? We are well in a place where people are subscribed to too many things and many people are looking to cut back. Cord cutting is still a thing and subscription cutting is starting to happen. It's reaching (if it hasn't already reached) saturation. Gamepass does have the advantage of being the only game-centric subscription service, while all others are movies/series focused.

To be clear, there is no question that Gamepass is an outstanding value as I took advantage of the $1 offer and am locked in until Dec. 2021. I went to Costco and bought two year Xbox Live membership cards for around $80 and then converted to Ultimate for $1.

Here is how I would have done Gamepass (criticize it all you want) in a way that would IMO negate the potential negatives I have concerns about:
1. I would lower the price to around $6.99 ($10.99 with Live) a month and/or $59.99 a year ($99.99 with Live).
2. Limit it to games that have been on the market a year or longer.
3. Give a discount to games less than a year old.

That IMO would still offer excellent value and would be the perfect additional gift to offer to a new system. Rip it to shreds if you want.

In short, I just want MS fanboys/shills to STFU. Instead of screaming through the rooftops that they're the greatest ever and going to take over the world. Just for once, be smart and let the results do all the talking. Let's see some actual evidence that MS is changing things. Rest assured that if MS starts cutting into Sony's huge lead they will announce it like crazy, just like they did during the 360 era.

My issue with this is that the current market and they way games are going, smaller games that aren't from Indies have no where to go. They have been dying for awhile now. Gamepads has the potential for many games to find new audiences and new interest. But that's not enough for the average gamer. They want the big games like Gears 5 to be enticed by the service.

Waiting to put new content on it will shoot it in the head. That would take anyway any incentive for the hardcore people who are the ones that are talking about Game Pass and spreading the word. I can't emphasize enough that this is happening. The word is spreading. Will it be enough? Only time will tell. But with its current form the "it factor" is the Day 1 of a lot of big titles.

I think Halo Infinite is going to be the real test for not only gamers but Microsoft. They have taken their time with this one and hopefully that means its going to be the return of Halo in the monolith capacity. You have it compatible with Xbox one but also launching day 1 for XSX.

 

[INC]

Not when it crashes as soon as I open the app on my pc, cant find a fix for it, so my 3 months xbox pass is literally goung to waste

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Waiting to put new content on it will shoot it in the head. That would take anyway any incentive for the hardcore people who are the ones that are talking about Game Pass and spreading the word. I can't emphasize enough that this is happening. The word is spreading.

Numbers. Numbers. Numbers. That's what will do the emphasizing.

Saying it over and over and over and over. Doesn't change anything.

Numbers.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

This is how it always is in MS threads. They act like MS has it all figured out and that everyone will be forced to bow down to them and that nobody will be able to do anything. It is all fantasyland stuff. What happens when other publishers decide they'd rather start their own streaming service than negotiate their games into Gamepass?

you need an advanced network of servers to start your own service, that's why you only see MS and Google companies that already have that established venturing into this right now.

For the Record I'm not some MS shill I don't even own an Xbox just a PS4 and Switch. I'm just shooting down dumb arguments like usual.

 

[DanielsM]

Not when it crashes as soon as I open the app on my pc, cant find a fix for it, so my 3 months xbox pass is literally goung to waste

Instead of fixing Games for Windows Live, they eventually it shutdown and in turn fucked over all the paying PC customers, developers and publishers. They than rolled out the Windows Store with the stupid ass UWP and horrible client, eventually renamed it the Microsoft Store - like changing the name thinking that was going to fix their broken ass store and client. Than Lil Phil said last year he was going to fix the Store and the client, which he never did.... they than rolled out the stupid as Game Pass client that can only be used on windows 10 and literally has to have the latest patches. I could never get it work on multiple computers.... crashes.

So instead of fixing their software they just move onto the next piece of shit client in the hopes nobody remembers.

Phil Spencer promises to fix Microsoft Store for PC games, commits to powerful hardware

The Windows Store may get some love soon.

www.windowscentral.com

I'm going to be honest, I have no idea why these people on PC put up with their shit. Rinse and repeat.

At least Game Pass is just a rental program, imagine all your games being almost impossible to install after you purchased them... what happened to Games for Windows Live users, and my guess eventually to Microsoft Store/UWP users.

 

[Nikana]

Numbers. Numbers. Numbers. That's what will do the emphasizing.

Saying it over and over and over and over. Doesn't change anything.

Numbers.

You get numbers by spreading the word.

 

[INC]

Instead of fixing Games for Windows Live, they eventually it shutdown and in turn fucked over all the paying PC customers, developers and publishers. They than rolled out the Windows Store with the stupid ass UWP and horrible client, eventually renamed it the Microsoft Store - like changing the name thinking that was going to fix their broken ass store and client. Than Lil Phil said last year he was going to fix the Store and the client, which he never did.... they than rolled out the stupid as Game Pass client that can only be used on windows 10 and literally has to have the latest patches. I could never get it work on multiple computers.... crashes.

So instead of fixing their software they just move onto the next piece of shit client in the hopes nobody remembers.

Phil Spencer promises to fix Microsoft Store for PC games, commits to powerful hardware

The Windows Store may get some love soon.

www.windowscentral.com

I'm going to be honest, I have no idea why these people on PC put up with their shit.

I got 3 months free with my 3700x, so thought I'd try exodus and forza, but I cant open the fucking app, great first impression of xbox tbh. Now I have no desire to use the service. GG microsoft

 

[DanielsM]

I got 3 months free with my 3700x, so thought I'd try exodus and forza, but I cant open the fucking app, great first impression of xbox tbh. Now I have no desire to use the service. GG microsoft

Yeah, thank god its only a rental service instead of purchase (digital distribution) service like GFWL or the MS Store - not much is lost at least.

 

[FireFly]

Yes, like they were giving away money to Xbox users and losing billions on hardware? To grow their install base? No real difference... they are trying to sell a dollar for really a nickel.

Of course, they are trying to growing their install base the issue is... they can't do it without giving it away.

But that's exactly the point. They have 65M+ paying Live subscribers because of the money they spent building up Xbox as a brand, that resulted in huge initial losses for the division. That's what an investment *is*.

Why do you think Amazon didn't make a profit until 9 years after it was founded?

I didn't infer Game Pass numbers from EA Access... EA Access at least has paying customers... Microsoft has to give it away.

I asked for evidence of the absence of demand for Game Pass, and you provided the EA Access subscriber figures. So if these are not your evidence, where is it?

And Microsoft do have paying subscribers, since when the promotional period ends, people have to pay!

3m customers is fucking squat... literally Spider-Man did more revenue in probably a few hours than all these silly rental programs have done combined in their lifetime ----- literally the definition of no demand in my book.

I find something that is going to revolutionize everything is nothing new.... and all you silly people act like its new and revolutionary.... its so great they can't get people to pay for it.

1. Nothing new
2. Many other providers
3. Is really just a rental program i.e. Blockbuster big fucking whoopie doo
4. No real paying customers
5. No real business sustainable business model
6. A bunch of delusional fans or astroturfers

Literally this is all be big fucking NOTHING>

You sound pretty angry about people getting value out of a service. Again, why does a service have to be revolutionary to be of value? It's this binary all-or-nothing thinking again.

Thinking about the business model, most games are heavily front loaded, hence the opportunity cost of offering a past release on a subscription program is reduced, and you get the opportunity to generate incremental revenue through microtransactions and new purchases. So again, in the worst case where Game Pass isn't sustainable for new releases, it could still work as EA Access does.

I think the idea of being able to instantly play any game in Microsoft's back catalogue is pretty cool, and doesn't really compare to having to physically drive to a store, rent a game, and then return it when you are done.

 

[DanielsM]

But that's exactly the point. They have 65M+ paying Live subscribers because of the money they spent building up Xbox as a brand, that resulted in huge initial losses for the division. That's what an investment *is*.

Microsoft does not have 65m+ paying Live subscribers stop making up bullshit, you're about to go on my ignore. The rest started sounding like a commerial.

Microsoft no longer gives numbers on paying (Gold) Live subscriptions... 64m is the last number for MAU... that means if you log into an app or the Xbox Live interface.... those are not paying subscriber numbers.

You sound pretty angry about people getting value out of a service.

LOL

Not at all, go enjoy yourself. The astroturfing and starting a thread everyday is a different matter.... nice strawman.

You seem like you are angry that someone doesn't want to listen to your silly astroturfing for services nobody really wants.

I think the idea of being able to instantly play any game in Microsoft's back catalogue is pretty cool, and doesn't really compare to having to physically drive to a store, rent a game, and then return it when you are done.

Its like saying its cool I can use my phone to call and talk to someone instead going over to their house to talk to them in person. The issue is, everyone has been able to do this.... so what... we generally don't go around the interwebs to discuss how phones are so great.... or go on forums and start new threads on services that have been around and are the norm. Its not about whether its cool or useful, its just in today's world its no big deal and is the norm.... at the end of the day all Game Pass is, is Blockbuster.

All these threads are bizarre. Nobody on the other services starts daily threads on digital distribution, game rentals or streaming except all these Microsoft threads..... hm, I wonder why i.e. desperation comes to mind.

 

[quest]

I find all kinds of things of great value, doesn't mean I would start another fucking thread on it every day. Literally, its a rental service i.e. Blockbuster... but even if it were great, not sure with the new threads all the freaking time. There really isn't any real demand... the demand comes in when they give it away i.e. sell a dollar for a quarter. This is like the Xbone days with the infinite power of the da cloud bs.... than Microsoft had employees which were being caught astroturfing, I myself found a MS contractor on Major Nelson's blog.

You don't see people staring EA Access threads every days and its probably makes the most revenue if I were to guess... but at the end of the day no real business model there. Either way, its just a Blockbuster service which is why nobody really gives a shit other than the people creating Game Pass threads.

At the end of the day even if a company could find a good business model... all the major publisher either have their own service or are rolling them out.

If EA wanted to offer the ultimate or what they call it on PC to console gamers I think you might get threads about it. People aren't excited about old games like the console version of EA pass. Its when as a gamepass subscriber I get outer worlds day 1 gets me excited or other games. Netflix is a rental service great value.

 

[Caffeine]

yes I think it will have majority share of users, however we shouldnt downplay psnow which does include some ps2 titles and in the future will expand their vast library as well. right now microsoft has layed out the framework better. while sony is still in their beginning steps trying to pave the way forward slowly.

 

[FireFly]

My bad on the subscriber numbers.

Its like saying its cool I can use my phone to call and talk to someone instead going over to their house to talk to them in person. The issue is, everyone has been able to do this.... so what... we generally don't go around the interwebs to discuss how phones are so great.... or go on forums and start new threads on services that have been around and are the norm. Its not about whether its cool or useful, its just in today's world its no big deal and is the norm.... at the end of the day all Game Pass is, is Blockbuster.

All these threads are bizarre. Nobody on the other services starts daily threads on digital distribution, game rentals or streaming except all these Microsoft threads..... hm, I wonder why i.e. desperation comes to mind.

Your two points seem contradictory. Either game subscriptions aren't of any value and no one wants them (see Blockbuster) or they will become so ubiquitous that there isn't any point creating threads about them. You can't have it both ways.

For me I could totally accept that having full access to a console manufacturer's back catalogue for a monthly fee, could become something as normal as watching videos on your phone.

 

[DanielsM]

If EA wanted to offer the ultimate or what they call it on PC to console gamers I think you might get threads about it. People aren't excited about old games like the console version of EA pass. Its when as a gamepass subscriber I get outer worlds day 1 gets me excited or other games. Netflix is a rental service great value.

If people were excited about Game Pass, they would have paying customers and would pay for the service.

Whether something is of great value has nothing to do with my comments.

 

[DForce]

Oh man, 12Dannu123 with another XCloud thread.

 

[Nikana]

If people were excited about Game Pass, they would have paying customers and would pay for the service.

Whether something is of great value has nothing to do with my comments.

People are paying for it.

 

[DanielsM]

My bad on the subscriber numbers.


Your two points seem contradictory. Either game subscriptions aren't of any value and no one wants them (see Blockbuster) or they will become so ubiquitous that there isn't any point creating threads about them. You can't have it both ways.

For me I could totally accept that having full access to a console manufacturer's back catalogue for a monthly fee, could become something as normal as watching videos on your phone.

Setting up a strawman. Of course they have great value, they gave it away from free... but that has nothing to do with my comments.

Literally, you guys astroturfing Microsoft stuff are a funny group.... all of this stuff existed and does exist... its nothing new.... no really demand growth meaning sustainable i.e. paying customers. Maybe one day they will, but acting like this is the best thing since slice bread is laughable... its simple a rental service.

I see nothing wrong with Game Pass, I guess on a discussion front it doesn't appear sustainable but at the end of the day its just a video game rental service.

Game Pass - simply a game rental service like Blockbuster or PS Now
xCloud - simply a streaming game rental service like PS Now or Stadia

Its not that there is something wrong with this stuff, no real huge demand though.... but there appears to be a problem with starting all these threads and making all these strange comments about how Microsoft is going to take over the world.... its simply distribution system that everyone (publishers) already have to a degree.

Microsoft and astroturfers are overselling something, and I get some of you guys have jobs that are on the line but there really isn't some natural huge growth in this stuff, and its very hard to imagine a model that makes more raw numbers than digital purchases.

 

[DForce]

But that's exactly the point. They have 65M+ paying Live subscribers because of the money they spent building up Xbox as a brand, that resulted in huge initial losses for the division. That's what an investment *is*.

65+ million plus? So, you're saying they have more than 60 million Xbox One's sold and the majority is subscribed to Xbox Live?

 

[FireFly]

Setting up a strawman. Of course they have great value, they gave it away from free... but that has nothing to do with my comments.

I'm talking about value as a paid service.

There are two different things:

1.) Whether Game Pass is sustainable as a subscription service on any level, i.e whether there is a proportion of people willing to pay a monthly fee for access to the Xbox Back catalogue.
2.) Whether 1.) is a big deal and merits threads being created on it.

I see nothing wrong with Game Pass, I guess on a discussion front it doesn't appear sustainable but at the end of the day its just a video game rental service.

Game Pass - simply a game rental service like Blockbuster or PS Now
xCloud - simply a streaming game rental service like PS Now or Stadia

Its not that there is something wrong with this stuff, no real huge demand though.... but there appears to be a problem with starting all these threads and making all these strange comments about how Microsoft is going to take over the world.... its simply distribution system that everyone (publishers) already have to a degree.

I never said Microsoft was going to take over the world. I just think there is middle ground between taking over the world and failing completely. If EA Access is financially sustainable for EA I don't see why some version couldn't be sustainable for Microsoft also. That doesn't mean that most users will get their games through a subscription service; just that it could be another viable option.

 

[DanielsM]

I'm talking about value as a paid service.

There are two different things:

1.) Whether Game Pass is sustainable as a subscription service on any level, i.e whether there is a proportion of people willing to pay a monthly fee for access to the Xbox Back catalogue.
2.) Whether 1.) is a big deal and merits threads being created on it.

Of course its a good value, its basically free.

From the way things are going, Xbox Game Pass is likely become the dominate Streaming/Subscription gaming service

This is the problem, imo, bunches of threads that appear to be astroturfing which setup strawman situations on top of strawman situations.

Right now, nobody really cares about these streaming and rental services, but even if they did.... they are simply rental and streaming services both of which have been around for quite some time. Nobody is saying people can't believe there is value, its just a big nothing burger.... but I guess when you (Microsoft) got nothing... you got to find something to astroturf about.

At the end of the day... they are simply rental programs... services are boring. Heck, probably the largest video game distribution systems is barely spoken about out here i.e. Steam and for good reason, its like talking about what is better Target or Walmart.

For the record.... I don't foresee any of the video game streaming or rental programs really doing well until there is a sustainable model which brings in more than digital purchases and nobody has presented one that I am aware of, but either way I find all these threads on services people clearly aren't paying for to be quite bizarre.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Right back to threadwhining and throwing out guesses as facts lol.

The hilarity ensues

 

[Panaphonics]

"Their (sic) hardware is never anything special"

Too bad the X is more powerful than the Pro.

And at the same time x is whisper quiet! Pro is a fucking jet Engine

 

[ManaByte]

Some people get really triggered at people liking Xbox on this forum. Wonder why that is.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Some people get really triggered at people liking Xbox on this forum. Wonder why that is.

"Astroturfer"


Whatever tf that dumb shit means

 

[ManaByte]

"Astroturfer"


Whatever tf that dumb shit means

It's a term that was thrown around here at the XBO/PS4 launch when a former mod was mass-banning pro-Xbox people and calling them "astroturfers" for liking the system over the PS4, insinuating that they were paid MS marketeers while at the same time "verifying" completely fake PS "insiders" spewing such bullshit as yield issues affecting the Xbox launch.

 

[SleepDoctor]

It's a term that was thrown around here at the XBO/PS4 launch when a former mod was mass-banning pro-Xbox people and calling them "astroturfers" for liking the system over the PS4, insinuating that they were paid MS marketeers while at the same time "verifying" completely fake PS "insiders" spewing such bullshit as yield issues affecting the Xbox launch.

Lol thats pretty pathetic. Granted the xbone was such a pos when launched. People are still allowed to like what they want regardless.

But i have to say its hilarious when just you liking something can trigger someone so hard lol.

 

[Nikana]

Lol thats pretty pathetic. Granted the xbone was such a pos when launched. People are still allowed to like what they want regardless.

But i have to say its hilarious when just you liking something can trigger someone so hard lol.

STOP LIKING THINGS I DONT LIKE

 

[CatLady]

Evidence.... Ea access has only 3m customers see their financials....Ms has to get it away.

An Bunch of MS astroturfing, like during the xbone launch....desperation.

As opposed to your never-ending anti-MS astroturfing?

You post nothing but negativity about any & everything MS, Xbox, and people that like them. It's literally your only contribution to this forum 90% of the time. Why are you so obsessed with MS, Xbox, Game Pass etc. Do you have any interests outside of complaining about MS?