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[Kenpachii]

Michael pachter today on his latest stream thinks ps5 is around 1000$ based on spec he has seen lol . Keep in mind whatever he says is usually oppositte of truth . Ps5 8tf confirmed ? Lol

Free PS5 confirmed

 

[LordOfChaos]

For better clarity on this, back at E3 he said the PS5 sounds like a $800 box based on the specs he's heard:



Recently he commented that based on the specs he heard the PS5 sounds like a $1000 box:

Old school Gametrailers crew back together ;_;

Shout out to Easy Allies too

 

[Bryank75]

I mean the PC will always be more powerful, cause its a constantly evolving platform. Consoles can be cutting edge when they launch, but technology won't be standing still for their lifetime. Not sure why anyone is really contesting this at all.

No, this is a false statement. Only some PC's will be more powerful, most don't play over 1080p, still many at 720p.
It's not a unified and standardised platform and has no platform holder to subsidise and utilize economies of scale to deliver value to the consumer or to work building developers and relationships to get more content....
It's a huge weakness for PC gaming. You are literally paying a premium for everything on the hardware side.

 

[psorcerer]

Unified ram is cheaper to implement not better... two big pools of memory dedicated to CPU and GPU will be way faster for performance.
It is the same case for APUs it is cheaper but not better than dedicated CPU + dedicated GPU.

BTW you still needs to allocate memory separated and it needs to ask the owner for changes in that allocated space... only reads is allowed directly in a hUMA system.

It's better. You can better sync between CPU and GPU access in a unified case.
Essentially I don't see any disadvantage in a unified pool.
Obviously reads are what's important. Any multiple writers paradigm is a dumb idea overall and it's pretty impossible to sync well.
But you can. If you want.
GPU barrier is just a memory token.

 

[Insane Metal]

Weirdly enough, OsirisBlack has again said XBX is 11.6TF. And PS5 12.4. I mean, he could just be posting numbers close to the actual ones, but I find it interesting that he posted these twice.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I think Patcher just says ludicrous stuff for the reaction. He must do because he obviously isn’t stupid.

 

[JLMC469]

I think Patcher just says ludicrous stuff for the reaction. He must do because he obviously isn’t stupid.

As a CPA, you’d be amazed at the amount of stupidity said by Economists, Analysts...

 

[vpance]

Michael pachter today on his latest stream thinks ps5 is around 1000$ based on spec he has seen lol . Keep in mind whatever he says is usually oppositte of truth . Ps5 8tf confirmed ? Lol

Just more evidence that the state of rumors hasn't changed since E3. Everyone in the know is looking at the same spec sheets.

Weirdly enough, OsirisBlack has again said XBX is 11.6TF. And PS5 12.4. I mean, he could just be posting numbers close to the actual ones, but I find it interesting that he posted these twice.

He's definitely posting numbers that are close and not exact. With his last few hints it seems like he's inferring that XSX is actually under 12TF, maybe just slightly.

 

[JLMC469]

He's definitely posting numbers that are close and not exact. With his last few hints it seems like he's inferring that XSX is actually just under 12TF.

Tom Warren a little over 12 and I believe Klee said it was over 12.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Just more evidence that the state of rumors hasn't changed since E3. Everyone in the know is looking at the same spec sheets.



He's definitely posting numbers that are close and not exact. With his last few hints it seems like he's inferring that XSX is actually just under 12TF.

Great numbers overall. I'm happy that most of our predictions around here of 12tf will be realizing itself after some doubted tht was coming.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

As a CPA, you’d be amazed at the amount of stupidity said by Economists, Analysts...

To be honest yeah, I can imagine. I know doctors and other such professionals who are obviously well educated. But when it comes to stuff like basic common sense they are as thick as pig shit!

 

[Sosokrates]

I guess the arguing about console power stems from people being afraid that fans of the opposing console is going to claim there console is better FACT, because its more powerful, so its not the desire to have the most powerful console but its the desire not to give the other side advantages on forums lol.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I guess the arguing about console power stems from people being afraid that fans of the opposing console is going to claim there console is better FACT, because its more powerful, so its not the desire to have the most powerful console but its the desire not to give the other side advantages on forums lol.

There's definitely some fanboyist ego involved, but if you'd ask me whether I'd like the Series X to be a 8TF machine and the PS5 a 13TF one, I'd say 'hell, no!' I'd like both systems to be equal (so that the multiplat titles will be equal in both systems) and have their exclusives do the talking.

People wanting the other people's consoles to be weaker just for bragging rights is pathetic.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Patcher probably seen mark Cerny say that PS5 has a “better SSD than PC’s” and gone ”herp derp, that part must cost 300 alone!”.

 

[sonomamashine]

There's definitely some fanboyist ego involved, but if you'd ask me whether I'd like the Series X to be a 8TF machine and the PS5 a 13TF one, I'd say 'hell, no!' I'd like both systems to be equal (so that the multiplat titles will be equal in both systems) and have their exclusives do the talking.

People wanting the other people's consoles to be weaker just for bragging rights is pathetic.

 

[VFXVeteran]

There is always a latency.
It diesn't change the fact that the addressing is unified.
If you can directly get a GPU pointer from CPU it's a direct access.
I try to reduce the disinformation, and unfortunately it's hard to do when authority is involved. That's why people with authority IMHO should be very careful on how they say things.
I'm not attacking you. Just the things you say.

But you aren't praising or concuring the things I say that is true. I get nothing but attacks on things you think I say are inaccurate. How about addressing ethomaz ? His comments seem to concur with mine (i.e. there is no advantage of unified memory that will see any gains that will make a console game outshine a PC variant of that game). And I would still take the 11G of VRAM and 16G of CPU RAM for a game.

 

[vpance]

Great numbers overall. I'm happy that most of our predictions around here of 12tf will be realizing itself after some doubted tht was coming.

Yep for sure. And all these terribly bad speculation posts will be very funny (and sad) to look back at after both are revealed.

 

[VFXVeteran]

They don't cripple the PC as a games platform, but they stop the platform from being fully utilized in a lot of ways. There are very few PC exclusive titles now, most everything is built with the ability to run on 6 bad cpu cores and 5GB of RAM as a floor. If you created a game where an i3 and 16GB of RAM are needed at minimum for base game play, there's no porting that to console.

I don't see it that way. Just because the PC has the potential for vast amounts of memory and compute power doesn't mean it needs to target a specific audience. That will ALWAYS be the case no matter what. The PC is a moving target platform. The consoles will always lag behind the best PC hardware and the games will lag behind because the PC hardware continues to get more power too often. The GPU usage on some of the AAA games is still damn near 99%. CPU usage is low because nearly every game is GPU bound anyway. And yet, even the PC can't render all the games today at 4k/60FPS. That should tell you it's not because they aren't accessing something they forgot or failed to do to take advantage of it. It means that the GPU still isn't there for 4k/60FPS with all the available graphics features that have been implemented so far. I don't see that changing with RTX. With ray-tracing, there's now a new bottleneck for all platforms and makes the GPU limit even lower.

 

[Sosokrates]

There's definitely some fanboyist ego involved, but if you'd ask me whether I'd like the Series X to be a 8TF machine and the PS5 a 13TF one, I'd say 'hell, no!' I'd like both systems to be equal (so that the multiplat titles will be equal in both systems) and have their exclusives do the talking.

People wanting the other people's consoles to be weaker just for bragging rights is pathetic.

I too would like both systems to be equal.
But I'd rather the xbox be more powerful if one had to be more powerful because Sony fans are just worse in my experience, they go out of there way far more to talk about Xbox's so called inferiorities.

If ps5 is 13tf and XsX is like 10tf, or vice versa, yes the more powerful machine will have slightly better resolution or other graphical settings but it's not that important, the ps4 Pro has shown this, yes games like RDR2 and others it's nice having 4k visuals on the 1x but I wouldn't say the PS4's pros experience is vastly inferior, the ps4 Pro still has a great experience in comparison to the X1X.

I think power is only important when the experience is noticeable inferior compared to the other console,ike it was on the PS3 and Xbox one compared to there counterparts.

 

[Nickolaidas]

But I'd rather the xbox be more powerful if one had to be more powerful because Sony fans are just worse in my experience, they go out of there way far more to talk about Xbox's so called inferiorities.

I would never wish to impede my entertainment just so that I wouldn't read comments from little people.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I don't see it that way. Just because the PC has the potential for vast amounts of memory and compute power doesn't mean it needs to target a specific audience. That will ALWAYS be the case no matter what. The consoles will always lag behind the best PC hardware and the games will lag behind because the PC hardware continues to get more power too often. The GPU usage on some of the AAA games is still damn near 99%. CPU usage is low because nearly every game is GPU bound anyway. The PC is a moving target platform. The consoles are not. And yet, even the PC can't render all the games today at 4k/60FPS. That should tell you it's not because they aren't accessing something they forgot or failed to do to take advantage of it. It means that the GPU still isn't there for 4k/60FPS with all the available graphics features that have been implemented so far. I don't see that changing with RTX. With ray-tracing, there's now a new bottleneck for all platforms and makes the GPU limit even lower.

You are talking graphical performance again, I'm talking level/world and AI design, physics (as a component of gameplay, not superfluous explosions), etc. The building blocks of the core game must be limited if a console port is desired. Full Stop. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Pyramid Song]

I wonder who is the user that Mod of War it's talking. Could be any of you

 

[VFXVeteran]

But I'd rather the xbox be more powerful if one had to be more powerful because Sony fans are just worse in my experience, they go out of there way far more to talk about Xbox's so called inferiorities.

This is exactly what I was eluding to when DJ12 backed me into a corner about my strong resistance to Sony players. They are very religious about their system and the exclusive games to the point of it being a cult.

You are talking graphical performance again, I'm talking level and AI design, physics (as a component of gameplay, not superfluous explosions), etc. The building blocks of the core game must be limited if a console port is desired. Full Stop. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

You won't see better animation that's computensive to the point that it wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Mocap is pretty damn good. AI is pretty damn good in Modern Warfare. I can't see that changing much. Other gameplay elements would be a matter of the vision - not necessarily the hardware.

 

[Sosokrates]

I would never wish to impede my entertainment just so that I wouldn't read comments from little people.

Neither would I, I said if one had to be more powerful.
I hope both platforms are as powerful as possible.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

So.... wait a minute, PCs are more powerful? Wow.

I'm shocked.

 

[Reindeer]

Michael Pachter makes some ludicrous predictions sometimes.

 

[PropellerEar]

AI is pretty damn good in Modern Warfare.

Any examples of AI being pretty good in latest COD as its total opposite what I've experienced with it.

 

[Reindeer]

Just watched FF7 leaked Demo gameplay, it's crazy to think that game runs on PS4. I mean it's like watching CGI at times. I believe next gen will bring some crazy visuals no matter what the naysayers say.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I’m in a good mood today so I’m jumping on team 2X Oberon chips in Crossfire setup!

 

[Red_Driver85]

I know of a PS4 game that will release on the PC

Still waitiiiing.
You talking like a PC zealot, man. Why PS4 version of Detroit: Become Human is unplayable? Because its stable? Port on PC is awful, really awful. Even RTX 2080ti not able to run this game at 1440p with stable 60fps on ultra. What are talking about?

 

[magnumpy]

hmm well let's say the rumored power difference is true with the PS5 being much less powerful wrt teraflops but it came in at say $100 less expensive. I would says in that scenario it is advantage sony, but we will see these are just rumors after all

 

[VFXVeteran]

Still waitiiiing.
You talking like a PC zealot, man. Why PS4 version of Detroit: Become Human is unplayable? Because its stable? Port on PC is awful, really awful. Even RTX 2080ti not able to run this game at 1440p with stable 60fps on ultra. What are talking about?

PC zealot? If a game has more complex features that aren't in the original console release, calling them out doesn't make me a PC zealot. That's in your head because you are console zealot maybe? Everything I'm saying is facts. If I have an opinion, I would state as such.

The PC version of Detroit has several features that aren't in the PS version. We can skip all the shadows, etc.. and just shoot for the major look change -- the higher resolution textures and the true 4k resolution. And you are right, even a 2080Ti can't keep a locked 60FPS, but look at what the game is doing. You act like it has simple complexity to it. There are several games that can't hold 4k/60 on a 2080Ti. The GPU albeit the fastest and most memory bandwidth is STILL not enough to fill pixels at a locked 60FPS.

Here is a comment from that article that denounces the belief that PS games are developed with PS in mind first and then ported:

It hinted that the PC port of “Detroit: Become Human” has a redesigned interface to capitalize on the input methods of PC. Additionally, the game’s PC version can be played at 4K and 60 frames per second because of its beefy storage and computing power. Some gamers are worried that Quantic Dream might have rushed porting the game to PC.

However, Quantic Dream Co-Founder David Cage shared that this is not the case. Quantic Dreams games are optimized to the core for PlayStation with a very precise architecture to be as proximate as possible to the hardware. This is one of the advantages of releasing on a single platform since the game developer can really customize the game engine for optimum performance, Cage revealed.

Porting the game to PC has always been an enormous challenge for the team since we want to give PC players the original experience without compromising anything, Cage revealed. PC gamers can expect high-quality rendering because of the redesigned interface and new engine that Quantic Dream used.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Any examples of AI being pretty good in latest COD as its total opposite what I've experienced with it.

Sure. Play Coop mode or play the bots in MP mode. And then tell me a game that has better AI.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Michael pachter today on his latest stream thinks ps5 is around 1000$ based on spec he has seen lol . Keep in mind whatever he says is usually oppositte of truth . Ps5 8tf confirmed ? Lol

He seen specs, so the price will be opposite. $500 incoming.

Probably still $400.

 

[xPikYx]

No it's not, from the market leader you expect better not cheaper, or a dreamfully better and cheaper

 

[DeepEnigma]

I guess the arguing about console power stems from people being afraid that fans of the opposing console is going to claim there console is better FACT, because its more powerful, so its not the desire to have the most powerful console but its the desire not to give the other side advantages on forums lol.

People think they’re more special if they have something that 1 up’s what another has.

They just forget that they’re in a sea of 50 to 100 million other people with the exact same spec and reality being, you’re no longer unique or special.

 

[Marlenus]

Sure. Play Coop mode or play the bots in MP mode. And then tell me a game that has better AI.

Chess if using Stockfish / Leela Chess Zero

 

[DJ12]

This is exactly what I was eluding to when DJ12 backed me into a corner about my strong resistance to Sony players. They are very religious about their system and the exclusive games to the point of it being a cult.

Ok manchild.

I've changed my mind you are 100% a troll and the above proves it.

 

[PropellerEar]

Sure. Play Coop mode or play the bots in MP mode. And then tell me a game that has better AI.

Thank you, this is what I wanted.
I will try co-op.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Ok manchild.

I've changed my mind you are 100% a troll and the above proves it.

All in fun bro!

 

[pawel86ck]

You'll quickly run into a GPU limited scenario the more content you add to a scene. That's just unarguable and fact. You are not considering that.



Your problem is defining better looking. If you believe that PS5 exlusives have better talent and will deliver better experiences 100% of the time, then take comfort in knowing this fact that I *do* know for certain. Some of those exclusives will be on the PC and they will have more features than the PS5. All of the XSX games will look better on PC too as you already know.

I'm not game developer, so of course I dont have much knowledge in regards to technical stuff and I'm certainly not taking into account tricks and gimmicks developers can use in order to impress people. However I dont really care what "magic" developers will use, I just want to be impressed.

Around 2012 battlefield 3 and Crysis 2 were the best looking games on PC, but the same year Nvidia has released "a new dawn" tech demo showcasing a fairy character with extraordinary level of details never seen before. This tech demo was very impressive but also very demanding, because it was designed to run on GTX 680 SLI (my single GTX 680 barely could run it) so I wasnt expecting to see comparable character models in real games and especially on consoles. Yet character models in Rise Of The Tomb Raider on xbox one and uncharted 4 on PS4 looked equally good if not even better.

Spoiler: Screenshots

A new dawn tech demo SLI 680 GTX (6.5TF).

Rise Of The Tomb Raider xbox one screenshot (on standard xbox one cutscens were rendered at 900p ) running on 1.2TF GPU

xbox x screenshot (6TF GPU)

Uncharted 4 PS4 screenshot (1.8TF GPU)

Uncharted 4 living room looked like UE4 tech demos

Assassins Creed Black Flag. Back then I was impressed....

... but after playing AC Unity I could tell graphics was clearly improved because game was build with much stronger platform in mind.

Crysis 2

Character models in Crysis 3 was somewhat impressive, howerver this particular game was build with PC platform in mind and x360 port was butchered to the extreme.

You suggest current PC games already shows how next gen games will look on next gen consoles simply becaue your 2080ti barely can max certain new games. I can understand you, because 8 years ago (2012) I thought exactly the same. Games released around 2012 pushed my old GTX 680 already to the max, so I wasnt expecting miracles from 1-2 TF consoles, yet PS4/xbox one games despite much slower GPU still looked much better. Because of that now I have every reason to think history will repeat itself, so I still expect we will see better looking games on XSX / PS5. If Helblade 2 will look comparable to in engine trailer (it was render maybe?) then we should see even bigger gap than between xbox 360 vs xbox one.

BTW. I have noticed when people talk about games with the best graphics you always exclude PS4 games and I wonder why is that. What's strange, before Detroit Become Human was ported to PC you have never said it looks impressive, however now when this game is finally ported to PC you are saying game looks amazing. May I ask why you have changed your opinion in regards to this particular game? It's not like PC version looks 10x times better.

This is false.

11G VRAM on a PC + 16G regular RAM is better to have than 16G unified VRAM. Also, the console hardware memory isn't truly unified. A developer posted here a while ago that even that memory pool is "structured" in such a way that the CPU doesn't have direct access to the GPU's pool.

PC can use it's regular RAM for OS needs, and other side applications including the game where the level can be loaded. It would have ALL of the 11G for graphics.

Have you seen Digital Foundry video in regards to possible SDD benefits on next gen consoles? Richard Leadbetter has said developers will be able to use much bigger data structures thanks to ultra fast SDD streaming, so even 16GB RAM will enable developers to build much bigger games and use higher quality textures.



If next gen games will use lets say 20GB textures thanks to ultra fast streaming, so how people without equally fast SDD will run the same game on 11GB VRAM card according to you ? Richard shows very interesting test, when Nv GPU refused to run the same test because of VRAM limit, AMD GPU with build in SDD run the same test smoothly without out of memory error.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Unified ram is cheaper to implement not better... two big pools of memory dedicated to CPU and GPU will be way faster for performance.
It is the same case for APUs it is cheaper but not better than dedicated CPU + dedicated GPU.

BTW you still needs to allocate memory separated and it needs to ask the owner for changes in that allocated space... only reads is allowed directly in a hUMA system.

UMA makes a much better case for a closed box because GPGPU can utilize a unified pool much more efficiently. Also CPU and GPU having their own pools (in non UMA setups) still means that data has to be duplicated to both pools of memory over the bus. While memory in a UMA configuration has to be allocated to CPU and GPU sides of the APU for that memory, the benefit to UMA is that the amount can scale virtually while the hardware amount stays fixed.

On split memory architectures you'd have to physically alter the memory amounts, which is not possible with GPU cards unless you replace the card altogether, and for consoles neither is possible unless you have some kind of expansion port for things like RAM (which consoles haven't done since the mid '90s).

To me the games on the PS5 trump all.

Even if something crazy happens and there is a massive power gulf between the two (which would come at a premium price) if I can't play the games I enjoy most it doesnt matter.

....We've literally only see three next-gen games so far that we know actually definitely exist. It's...kinda early to make this type of statement xD.

 

[pawel86ck]

I really don't know where you are getting with this FH4 comparison. Yeah, 580 can't run this game in 4K/60 but so does Xbox One X, last time I checked game has 2 quality modes:

3840x2160 30 fps

1920x1080 60 fps

That was not the point. According to Thelastword forza games arnt that demanding, yet as my post clearly show you need high end GPU in order to run these forza games at 4K 60fps.

 

[Red_Driver85]

If a game has more complex features that aren't in the original console release

It’s obvious to me that a game running on a weak PS4 with very decent quality should work at about the same PC performance. This is true? No, it is not. The average configurations with the GTX1060 are in the region of 40-50 frames per second at the medium settings in 1080p, which roughly corresponds to the version for the PS4. Should the ultimate RTX2080ti pull such a game at 2560x1440p at 60fps with ultra settings that you need often to look at under the magnifying glass, except for the textures of course? Yes it should.

That's in your head because you are console zealot maybe? Everything I'm saying is facts.

In facts? Really? I don't think so. Yes, you talking too much, but often not in facts. And yes, you behave just like a PC fan, which you can’t expect from a real professional. Maybe I'm a fan, but not of the platform, but of games, technologies and the entire gaming industry. Well, I understand a little in business and how this inner kitchen rotates.

Here is a comment from that article that denounces the belief that PS games are developed with PS

This is not Sony’s internal studio, they are ordinary contractors, like many others. What this should prove, I do not know.

 

[Reindeer]

The best looking games last gen maxed out on PC look nowhere near as good as the best looking games on current consoles. So no, it's highly unlikely the best looking games on PC this gen will look anywhere as good as the best looking games on upcoming consoles. This has always been the case and there's no reason why it would change.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yes that is the one also reading what you replied to others in this thread I don't care who has a power advantage but I will definitely take that bet. I think a year with the other persons avatar should do it.

Edited to add: I was vetted then Gaf went through its.... restructuring that's on Gaf not me. Secondly, I don't have a dog in this fight. I know what I have been told and what I have seen simply put laugh now cry later. I wouldn't make an avatar bet or an account bet if I weren't 100% certain of my source.

Directly at Timdog, with your sources high up in MS you should have known that several people had the box in their homes and it was completed correct? You should know about the new Fighting game they are set to reveal ,Ill wait. How about the exclusivity of several big name third party games.... right. The same reason I specifically name dropped Ghosts of Tsushima and the Same reason I blatantly stated the actual box was already in peoples homes is exactly how I know what I do. But let me guess those were really good exact guesses? Let me guess Battletoads is another really good guess right?

You've kidnapped two separate game developers, one from the sony side, and one from the xbox side. You keep them in your basement for your personal amusement (as well as info) and you often lower a bucket while saying "it rubs the lotion on its skin" as you demand more information out of them. I'm onto you buddy. You can't keep them for long. They owe someone somewhere money, and the debt will come due.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

....We've literally only see three next-gen games so far that we know actually definitely exist. It's...kinda early to make this type of statement xD.

I mean the overall library but yes you are correct.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I wonder who is the user that Mod of War it's talking. Could be any of you

Everyone is checking old posts....

 

[Red_Driver85]

So no, it's highly unlikely the best looking games on PC this gen will look anywhere as good as the best looking games on upcoming consoles.

Of course. Otherwise, generations of consoles would not be needed, but they were and will be (until everything goes to cloud services). Therefore, very often I have a closure that such a professional as VFXVeteran writes such frank nonsense. And yes, as noted above, he did not admire the graphics in games, not a single one on the PS4 until it appeared on the PC. This is at least strange. I don’t feel like pushing him, but my opinion is that he is a PC fan. Maybe let him do this coming out?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Damn, Pascal implementation of RT is pure software and unplayable in some games (Metro), if one console (Xbox? ) has gimped version of RT that woud lead to limited use in multiplatform games. Reminds me of GPGPU implementation in current gen where PS4 had clear adventage.

Xbox Series X's implementation of RT is definitely not an emulated solution using compute shaders. It's true hardware based ray tracing. How good AMD's solution is compared to what was shown in RTX cards remains to be seen, but it's definitely nothing like the 1080Ti solution. Maybe there's some kind of hybrid solution where it's a combination, I don't know how AMD does it fully, but I know for a fact it's DEFINITELY nothing like the 1080 Ti method, which is pure compute shader based without dedicated hardware designed to accelerate specific intensive ray tracing based techniques.