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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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silent head

silent head

Member
OsirisBlack said:
Konami
vs
Capcom
Who's games do you like more?
Click to expand...


ri5swcxl0rc41.png
 
xool

xool

Member
DaGamez said:
xool xool , the lead-free solder was introduced very late in the development process (literally months before the unit hit production. Lead solder units created prior, had no reflow issues. Even production models had no issues with critical temperatures. That's all I can tell you.

Band-aid fixes were attempted to avoid reflow.

Sorry to derail the topic, LOL
Click to expand...
Lead free solder relfows at a much higher temperature than tradition leaded solder, and melts higer



etc

idk where you are getting your info from - but the evidence of design flaws in the GPU cooling is pretty obvious to me
 
xool

xool

Member
DJ12 said:
Do you seriously believe ps5 is 3 tflops down on Xbox because some web searcher found a document with absolutely no context telling you that?

Despite the fact that every single leak says they are virtually the same power?

If you believe ps5 is 9.2 tflops then you also believe Phil was using creative math skills and the 12 tflops he was refering to was a gcn equivelant value and the Xbox is actually similarly powered and under 10 tflops.

Xbox cannot be 12 tflops and ps5 9.2 and both be similar in power, with ps5 with a slight advantage like Osiris and other leakers have said.

Only way that could possibly happen is if Microsoft royally fucked up another part of the console. I don't believe that is possible but if you do then fair play to you.
Click to expand...

Yes.

And as I mentioned above - to see a +25% difference in TF in an in-motion game is going to be very difficult. DigitalFoundry will find something maybe - the resolution difference would be likely something like 900p vs 1080p - I've played 900p games and not even known until told after ..
 
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Gudji

Gudji

Member
Gamernyc78 said:
OHhhhh🤦‍♂️ what's this based off some dev poll? Sorry I didn't click it.

Never mind I clicked it. Dev poll.
Click to expand...

I think GDC group released some surveys they made recently. That's just one of them.

And this is just one of the reasons for that.... just a guess:

www.dualshockers.com

Shuhei Yoshida: Developers Tell Us They Never Worked on Hardware as Easy to Develop on As PS5

The latest issue of Dengeki PlayStation magazine included an interview with Shuhei Yoshida, who explained Sony made it very easy to develop games on PS5.
www.dualshockers.com www.dualshockers.com
 
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FERN

FERN

Member
xool said:
Yes.

And as I mentioned above - to see a +25% difference in TF in an in-motion game is going to be very difficult. DigitalFoundry will find something maybe - the resolution difference would be likely something like 900p vs 1080p - I've played 900p games and not even known until told after ..
Click to expand...

There's not a chance in hell Sony comes in under 10TF, especially since they most likely will have a new and improved VR headset coming in the near future.
My guess is they will both be around 12, which is what most of the leaks point to.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
FERN said:
There's not a chance in hell Sony comes in under 10TF, especially since they most likely will have a new and improved VR headset coming in the near future.
My guess is they will both be around 12, which is what most of the leaks point to.
Click to expand...

Yeah psvr was great and made a little but noticeable dent. Thy are going to go hard with psvr2. They are definitely building the system keeping in mind psvr2 and the power it needs.
 
xool

xool

Member
FERN said:
There's not a chance in hell Sony comes in under 10TF, especially since they most likely will have a new and improved VR headset coming in the near future.
My guess is they will both be around 12, which is what most of the leaks point to.
Click to expand...
What if it's 9.5TF though .. would that be ok?

9.5TF is a lot, especially compared to 1.8 PS4. It's next gen.

[edit - remember 9.5 is Nvidia 1080Ti / 2070 territory - I should feel good about this]
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
xool said:
I mean we've had a year of detailed tech leaks .. that seemed reliable .. plus now a die shot of a 400mm2 that matches expectations of those leaks.
Click to expand...
just because the xbox die is 400mm2 doesnt mean sony cant have a 400mm2 apu of their own.

the detailed tech leak you are talking about does not line up with any expectations whatsoever. they exist in a vacuum. You have cerny verbally confirming hardware RT. You have five different journalist all with their own set of sources saying PS5 is more powerful, is over 10.7 tflops and has performance exceeding the rtx 2080. the 9.2 tflops ps5 does not match those rumors which came directly from devs within the industry.

hell, the only person that sort of corroborated the oberon and arden github leaks was the chinese forum leaker who said arden was 350mm2 which we now know to be a load of shit. but yes, lets continue to believe the ps5 apu will be 300mm2 even though it doesnt line up with its own leak.

lastly, jason, klee and wccftech's info about next gen consoles has already proven to be true with the xbox being over 10.7 tflops, more powerful than the rtx 2080, and using a bigger navi gpu than the 5700xt. so if their sources in the industry are wrong then they shouldve been wrong about the xbox specs too. and yet the die size, phil's own words and other leaks from Windows central and tom warren confirm that the xbox is indeed 12 tflops. or very close to it.
 
CJY

CJY

Banned
Don't know if this has been mentioned and I haven't done my research into it, but just because Remedy is a public company doesn't mean Sony couldn't do a management buyout in the background.

As I said, I haven't done my research into what kind of stocks are available to the public in the company or what kind of structure Remedy have going on. I'm just saying it's not without precedent for buyouts to happen of apparently public companies without going through the public markets.
 
Ellery

Ellery

Member
~Fake said:
You're missing the hint. Thats why the second picture make more sense to the mouse cursor. lol
Click to expand...

No. I am well aware, but it is (maybe) reading too much into it. I am not saying he isn't doing it on purpose, but you can't know for sure. Might just be an accident that his mouse cursor happened to be there when he took that snap.

What his post on ResetEra is basically saying is "You nearly got me to vote on this and then see my vote".
Everything besides that is interpretation/reading into it.

My money is on that his cursor just happened to be at that position when he screencapped it to make his post.
 
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DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
xool said:
Lead free solder relfows at a much higher temperature than tradition leaded solder, and melts higer



etc

idk where you are getting your info from - but the evidence of design flaws in the GPU cooling is pretty obvious to me
Click to expand...

In practice, lead-free solder isn't as strong as lead solder. It's more complex than just the temps. The system was engineered and prototyped with lead solder, while being sold at retail with lead-free.

GPU never had overheating issues. This is why the RRoD was sudden and not intermittent (like an overheating CPU/GPU would be), everything worked fine until the chip lost contact with the circuitry. Attempts were made to further lower tempetures, but that does not equate to the temperatures being critical in the first place.

That's all water under the bridge now, not much point in discussing it.
 
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Fake

Fake

Member
ElleryJamesRoberts said:
No. I am well aware, but it is (maybe) reading too much into it. I am not saying he isn't doing it on purpose, but you can't know for sure. Might just be an accident that his mouse cursor happened to be there when he took that snap.

What his post on ResetEra is basically saying is "You nearly got me to vote on this and then see my vote".
Everything besides that is interpretation/reading into it.

My money is on that his cursor just happened to be at that position when he screencapped it to make his post.
Click to expand...

Move from both sides. He giving a false date/his opinion about the date and people believing in that because 'votes are visible' or he giving a true date, but he can't give that yet because 'votes are visible'. I guess work in the same way our 'insiders' are giving us blind info.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
CJY said:
Don't know if this has been mentioned and I haven't done my research into it, but just because Remedy is a public company doesn't mean Sony couldn't do a management buyout in the background.

As I said, I haven't done my research into what kind of stocks are available to the public in the company or what kind of structure Remedy have going on. I'm just saying it's not without precedent for buyouts to happen of apparently public companies without going through the public markets.
Click to expand...
Yeap... Sony or even Remedy can delay the public announce.
It just can't miss the quarters results.
 
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xool

xool

Member
SlimySnake said:
just because the xbox die is 400mm2 doesnt mean sony cant have a 400mm2 apu of their own.
Click to expand...
Absolutely

SlimySnake said:
the detailed tech leak you are talking about does not line up with any expectations whatsoever. they exist in a vacuum. You have cerny verbally confirming hardware RT. You have five different journalist all with their own set of sources saying PS5 is more powerful, is over 10.7 tflops and has performance exceeding the rtx 2080. the 9.2 tflops ps5 does not match those rumors which came directly from devs within the industry.

hell, the only person that sort of corroborated the oberon and arden github leaks was the chinese forum leaker who said arden was 350mm2 which we now know to be a load of shit. but yes, lets continue to believe the ps5 apu will be 300mm2 even though it doesnt line up with its own leak.

lastly, jason, klee and wccftech's info about next gen consoles has already proven to be true with the xbox being over 10.7 tflops, more powerful than the rtx 2080, and using a bigger navi gpu than the 5700xt. so if their sources in the industry are wrong then they shouldve been wrong about the xbox specs too. and yet the die size, phil's own words and other leaks from Windows central and tom warren confirm that the xbox is indeed 12 tflops. or very close to it.
Click to expand...

There are/were multiple leaks from multiple sources - if they have no value wtf was Oberon all about ?

Re: RT - se the Wired article - Cerny talked about raytracing in the context of audio, no mention of shadows/reflections/global illuminations himself - whilst that doesn't mean we won't get those - the audio example is the least demanding application - i really think people need to temper their expectations on ray-tracing next gen, (on both consoles) .. just like 360/PS3 was the "HD generation" - we aint getting it, or only on a few select titles..

(as I understand it the taiwan leak meant PS5 is 300-350mm2 class, and Scarlett is 350-400mm2 clas - though that's not clear)

As far as journalists as sources - so far I don't think they've been proved right about anything - apart from Klee sayinf double digits TF I think they've said next to nothing on next gen performance - well nothing solid anyway .. I've never heard anything like Klee or Schreier giving any details on Scarlett's die size, or performance relative to 2080 .. so I dunno

But the issue here is not whether Scarlett is ~12TF or nearly that, which matches the leaks, but about PS5 performance - which the tech leaks suggest is lower.

So are the tech leaks always wrong, or just wrong when they say PS5 is only 10TF ??
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
Finally something to work with.
MilkyJoe said:
My reasons;
Both have access to the same tech.
Click to expand...
Same base tech, both heavily customised - well the GPUs anyway, I guess the CPUs are virtually untouched. Therefore unknown quantity at this point until more is released. MS released vague specs, Sony have released jack shit.
MilkyJoe said:
MS are on the back foot after X1 launch.
Click to expand...
Oh dear, back to something irrelevant again, but anyway, MS are not on the back foot, wasn't the Xbox One X the most powerful console, easily better than PS4 Pro in every (technically - games are subjective) measurable way. Still this assumes xbox has unlimited coffers, which they don't. Microsoft as a company are clearly ready to pull the plug on the console business at any point. Phil doesn't have a blank cheque. Sony are rich as fuck also, not as rich as MS for sure, but they will bet the house on PlayStation if they had to.
MilkyJoe said:
Sony have no incentive to go over the top.
Click to expand...
Rorow, I sense some dumb here. Yeah no incentive at all, oh besides not giving people a reason to switch back to Xbox. The stakes are high for both, both will maximise their budgets, without question.
MilkyJoe said:
MS have talked nothing but power and "best place to play" for 4 years.
Click to expand...
Erm, good for them I guess. Was relevant, well at least the power statement, when the X was released. Means didely squat for PS5 and Series X though, surely you can see this. There is absolutely no talk of being most powerful between the two console coming from MS, at all.
MilkyJoe said:
MS show off a controversially massive case, out of the blue, and stating the design team were mandated on performance over looks.
Click to expand...
OK, this means what? seriously? Maybe they cannot cool their device with the facsimile of the PS3/PS4 cooling design they used for the One X. (yes yes, vapour chamber rather than heat pipes) Maybe with the Series X Xtra, or Series Z whatever they call the interim console this time, it will be a standard console design with a better cooling system. Maybe the tower is dictated by their lack of funds/ability to design anything better.
MilkyJoe said:
And yes a photo of the SoC for all to see.
Click to expand...
And when iFixit do a PS5 teardown (Sony won't do a response for this as it's irrelevant) and it's bigger, or 3d stacked, or split bother sides of the motherboard. What then? Let me tell you, you will realise this is a dumb point.
MilkyJoe said:
The latter two appear to be a show of confidence.
Click to expand...
Really, I guess you could see it that way, being xbox inclined. There is absolutely a reason why Phil used a picture, and it's because he thought Sony were about to drop the motherload at CES and they didn't have any other response prepared. It's not confidence, it was simply trying to keep xbox in the conversation.
MilkyJoe said:
Lastly the 12/9.5 that's all over. Where there's smoke there's fire.
Click to expand...
Lets lay this out, if PS5 is actually 9.2, then Xbox is actually 9.0. The 'real' smoke is the consoles are very close in power. The source for this is everyone other than a random AMD employee testing a chip some mouthy forumers are convinced is the actual retail PS5 chip. So I'll buy the PS5 is 9 tflops if you like, if you are also buying the xbox is roughly the same (we kinda know it isn't due to the APU size, but maybe is super low clocked) Devs cannot be saying they are both close, if there's a 3 tflop difference, as that wouldn't be close at all.
MilkyJoe said:
If that's as daft as fuq then call the loony bin and book a room for Milky Wibble!
Click to expand...
To be honest, I'm not quite sure if a call is required at the moment. I will make sure they are on standby though. Don't want you to suffer if it all drops the way 90% of the insiders are saying.

Anyway, I will look forward to your next delusional ramblings.
 
B

Brudda26

Member
xool said:
Absolutely



There are/were multiple leaks from multiple sources - if they have no value wtf was Oberon all about ?

Re: RT - se the Wired article - Cerny talked about raytracing in the context of audio, no mention of shadows/reflections/global illuminations himself - whilst that doesn't mean we won't get those - the audio example is the least demanding application - i really think people need to temper their expectations on ray-tracing next gen, (on both consoles) .. just like 360/PS3 was the "HD generation" - we aint getting it, or only on a few select titles..

(as I understand it the taiwan leak meant PS5 is 300-350mm2 class, and Scarlett is 350-400mm2 clas - though that's not clear)

As far as journalists as sources - so far I don't think they've been proved right about anything - apart from Klee sayinf double digits TF I think they've said next to nothing on next gen performance - well nothing solid anyway .. I've never heard anything like Klee or Schreier giving any details on Scarlett's die size, or performance relative to 2080 .. so I dunno

But the issue here is not whether Scarlett is ~12TF or nearly that, which matches the leaks, but about PS5 performance - which the tech leaks suggest is lower.

So are the tech leaks always wrong, or just wrong when they say PS5 is only 10TF ??
Click to expand...
whilst yes he only spoke about ray traced audio he since came out again after that first wired article stating its hardware accelerated because everyone assumed it was going to be software based ray tracing. You dont need hardware acceleration for ray traced audio, it's easily done in software. killzone shadowfall has ray traced audio. There is only 1 reason to have a hardware accelerated ray tracing solution and that would be for visuals.
 
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Fake

Fake

Member
Brudda26 said:
whilst yes he only spoke about ray traced audio he since came out again after that first wired article stating its hardware accelerated because everyone assumed it was going to be software based ray tracing. You dont need hardware acceleration for ray traced audio, it's easily done in software. killzone shadowfall has ray traced audio.
Click to expand...
'Easily', not the best.
 
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