Okami Haundo
Member
Nintendo had a stage presentation for the "full" reveal of the Switch.
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Nintendo had a stage presentation for the "full" reveal of the Switch.
I mean teraflops doesnt really matter to me. Its all about the exclusives and where my friends are on that matter to me. Multiplatform games are the only thing affected by tf and if you go by this gen even though xbox x has more tf the games usually perform the same as pro fps wise which i think matters more than resolution.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Bryank75
Banned
I agree, I think they will avoid it and leave it to DF. They don't want to spoil the power illusion... I am sure they will be plenty capable though!
hemo memo
Gold Member
Google used it so I think the higher TF of them will use it just to play down the other.
Lampiao
Member
Let the visuals of the games take center stage. TF is interesting, but at the end of the day it will only matter for yt channels that have to pause the game and zoom 400% to find differences and, for console wars.
Normal players will be happy.
BruceCLea87
Banned
PS5 registered in Switzerland yesterday. Does this indicate anything? Possibly an announcement soon?
nl.letsgodigital.org
PS5 trademark duidt op nabije introductie van PlayStation 5 | LetsGoDigital
Officiële introductie van de Sony PlayStation 5 game console lijkt aanstaande te zijn. Japanse gamefabrikant vraagt trademark aan voor PS5 in Zwitserland.
nl.letsgodigital.org
Yeah but we first saw the switch and some games in october trailer in 2016 presentation was January 2017. I think sony will be similar with trailer feb and full reveal and demos starting may june.
XinTniX
Neo Member
DF new focus will be the SSDs war, now we'll see super slowdowns to check which console loaded scenes first in milliseconds.
Neo Blaster
Member
Truth be said, if even MS doesn't want to talk about teraflops after bragging all about One X's and went the relative metrics way with XSX, why should we bother? Show me the games, that's what will matter at the end.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
I think theres a good case for it myself. Sony will be all SSD SSD SSD LOOK LOOK HOW FAST IT IS. MS will be all OUR CPU IS AMAZING LOOK AT ALL THIS SHIT THATS POSSIBLE.
Both will be on par.
Its essentially going to be a case of one guy has a big dick but squirts quick, the other has a smaller dick but lasts longer. But when it comes down to sticking a figure on it all, a ball park figure that people can just look at and say "this is better than that", they will be pretty much on par. I've been saying it all along. Its the best case we could possibly hope for.
Nobody is going to come out and say "well, our SSD is quick, but it wont actually matter really when it comes down to it" or "yeah, our cpu is faster but hell, not fast enough to make a difference".
Its going to be closer than any generation gap before it. Mark my words.
MARK THEM.
Both will be on par.
Its essentially going to be a case of one guy has a big dick but squirts quick, the other has a smaller dick but lasts longer. But when it comes down to sticking a figure on it all, a ball park figure that people can just look at and say "this is better than that", they will be pretty much on par. I've been saying it all along. Its the best case we could possibly hope for.
Nobody is going to come out and say "well, our SSD is quick, but it wont actually matter really when it comes down to it" or "yeah, our cpu is faster but hell, not fast enough to make a difference".
Its going to be closer than any generation gap before it. Mark my words.
MARK THEM.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
FranXico
Member
As someone else said, "numbers will disappoint, games won't".
I trust both console manufactures to have "done the math". After all, "twice the power" of these mid-gen premium consoles should already be good.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
100%
People might see the numbers going into next gen and think we are not getting that big of an upgrade.
When in fact even (just making up numbers) a 9+ Navi with SSD PS5 is a monster upgrade over anything this gen.
DJ12
Member
As long as they use the same baseline for calculations I'm good with that.
So Xbox is 2x one X so ps5 1.9 - 2.1x one X
ANIMAL1975
Member
Yes, the two skus worked from the beginning, and then the conservative approach dumped in favor of the future proof PS5, was my point.
As for the all the Gonzalo and Github leaks, they could be very well controlled leaks _ remember that people found Github is not really datamine.
Why nothing leaked yet about the big ps5 chip, is just a guess but, wasn't a team of AMD engineers sent to work directly with Sony on the chip? Then people started to speculate it was on Navi, and Navi will be exclusive lol _ would it be possible that they could conduct all their testings themselves, not needing to be done in AMD? I don't know, lots of possibilities and only time can tell.
Niked
Member
If this is the case, then Im super intrigued on what else Jim Ryan was pointing at, when he at CES said other futures will be revealed that distinct PS5 from the rest. Because we have 4 main features: SSD, Ray trace audio, new dual shock, Hardware based Ray tracing. There is atleast two more features If I remember correctly
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Agnostic2020
Member
Are you in 9tf ps5 and 12 tf xsx camp or no , they r closer than that ?
BlacknGold_Blood
Member
I think TFlop numbers will leak at GDC event regardless.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I am not really in any numbers camp because honestly I just don't know.
But the camps are a lot closer then 9 vs 12.
Neo Blaster
Member
chemical boy
Member
9 Tflops would be a monstrous update if there were no 4K, we would continue to play at 1080p, at 30 fps and without ray tracing. But although the specifications have improved the requirements in those 3 aspects they have also shot up.
Niked
Member
Features... Im not native speaking english man and auto correct change it sometimesSo, Jim got his hands on the time stone? Interesting...
Fake
Member
If 10tf is a monster for me imagine for the people who believe in 8tf.
Niked
Member
Then.. Imagine a navi 13tf at, 399$.. It would be a super monster! That is what I want.. I can take 499$ If that makes it a possibility
Neo Blaster
Member
Tflops aside, I'm much more curious about what devs can do with a desktop CPU and a high-speed SSD. Diminishing returns for graphics, time to focus on AI, physics and types of gameplay not possible with mechanical drives.
XinTniX
Neo Member
I think the trick of Sony (Secret sauce) will be to free the CPU from load all the data from SSD, using the GPU too, mainly to load heavy textures. We need to remember that uncompress data at 2GBps or 4GBps rate will consume a lot of CPU resources, and what is an advantage can become a problem too. So divide this load between CPU and GPU it seems an obvious choice to do not create a new nextgen bottleneck. So the architecture will be more important than the isolated component specs.
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BlacknGold_Blood
Member
Yeh but releasing a $399 PS5 will only be because of the long-term goal of getting you to buy a PS5 Pro three years later IMO.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Only thing that makes me doubt the Github stuff being a controlled leak was, there was Xbox-related info in there, too. Wouldn't Sony be in legal trouble if they did something like that, exposing MS's data? And likewise MS if they did that exposing Sony's? Unless they both corroborated together to leak the benchmarks, but why do that when it put PS5 in unfavorable light?
If AMD did the leak intentionally, and they didn't get approval from both Sony and MS to do it, then they'd just mess up goodwill with at least one of them. If AMD got them both to agree to it, why would Sony agree to that?
...who knows, maybe the duopoly is real after all
For that to work the GPU would need a CPU or MPU built into it, or the system itself would need an MPU co-processor interfacing from the main CPU on a main port, to the GPU (possibly on a PCIe lane, or SPI; depends on how fast it needs to send commands and how much data had to be sent per clock).
Keep in mind the purpose of the GPU is mainly to produce the graphics and then output them to the screen. Think of it as the color palette, and the CPU as the paintbrush, while the television is the canvas. With HUMA and unified memory pools, these GPUs can be used for certain non-graphics tasks too, like logic/A.I and the such, but at the end of the day they still have to receive the commands from a CPU. GPUs have schedulers and units that issue commands to parts of the GPU to generate the polygons, texture them, anti-aliase etc. but those are more like DSPs in theory, specifically dedicated to only those graphics/logic-orientated commands for speed and efficiency purposes.
Basically, there's no way to program a GPU itself as if it were a CPU; all code still passes through the CPU even if only initially before the CPU commands sub-processors like the GPU to pick up the task from there. But, I guess it could be theoretically possible to customize the GPU with units dedicated to texture cache access and read/write to/from the customized SSDs.
Don't know how they would do that, or if it would be possible with Navi's architectural design, but any kind of effort would need to be collaborative from start to finish between Sony and AMD.
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Okami Haundo
Member
Man... Now I'm just imaging a scenario where Sony pulls that approach during the Super Bowl.
Just a short, 30-second spot of someone waking up, playing their PS5, and interacting with it throughout the day via a new Playstation app. Teaser at the end to see the "full" video on their website/Youtube channel.
Honestly, I'd be hyped by that.
Lampiao
Member
Sorry if not allowed to post videos here, not want to promote any channels, but this type of graphics was achieved on a PS4 Pro, without ssd, gddr6, RT, zen 2 and navi.
I just see and imagine this x3 plus the whole next gen technology package. It's insane.
Book of the Dead - Running on PlayStation 4 Pro
I just see and imagine this x3 plus the whole next gen technology package. It's insane.
Book of the Dead - Running on PlayStation 4 Pro
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Niked
Member
Is that a game? How come no other games looked like this?
Insane Metal
Gold Member
This has a >90% probabilty of happening.
xool
Member
What hell on earth timeline is this. What next - they won't tell us clocks either?
No TF number no buyee. Not from nobody. Consumer has spoken
Lampiao
Member
It's a unity tech demo that runs on a ps4 pro, without the base ps4 serving as an anchor. We have never seen a game that was made exclusively for Ps4 Pro or Xone X.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Once you get to that sort of detail level, it become much harder to create because every square foot of space will need things to be placed by hand and tweaked, and that's likely what was done here. This generation, we relied a lot more on automated processes that made things much quicker, and it was essentially to the layman like "painting". But once you increase the detail, the problem then becomes that you cant get away with mass placing things, because it will stick out.
Also, its possible this was done on a PS4 Pro alone, and wouldn't work on a PS4.
gamechanger87
Member
Github wasn't a controlled leak. The Repo was found in June and not really disclosed again until December. A controlled leak would have been narrower and not contained all the PY scripts and PW to access the files, resumes, etc. There was too much other stuff in there to be anything other than a mistake which is why it got pulled.
No Sony would not be doing the chip testing. That completely defeats the purpose of having AMD design the chip. This is like that pastebin that claimed that Sony was handling all of the testing which is why the GitHub data was a lie. AMD semi-custom is essentially a menu of options from AMD and you pick and choose and help refine what you want. Sony is not designing the chips. It can provide ideas on what it would want, but the concept of sending the chips to Sony or MS for regression testing it not in the cards.
FERN
Member
Only thing that makes me doubt the Github stuff being a controlled leak was, there was Xbox-related info in there, too. Wouldn't Sony be in legal trouble if they did something like that, exposing MS's data? And likewise MS if they did that exposing Sony's? Unless they both corroborated together to leak the benchmarks, but why do that when it put PS5 in unfavorable light?
If AMD did the leak intentionally, and they didn't get approval from both Sony and MS to do it, then they'd just mess up goodwill with at least one of them. If AMD got them both to agree to it, why would Sony agree to that?
...who knows, maybe the duopoly is real after all
For that to work the GPU would need a CPU or MPU built into it, or the system itself would need an MPU co-processor interfacing from the main CPU on a main port, to the GPU (possibly on a PCIe lane, or SPI; depends on how fast it needs to send commands and how much data had to be sent per clock).
Keep in mind the purpose of the GPU is mainly to produce the graphics and then output them to the screen. Think of it as the color palette, and the CPU as the paintbrush, while the television is the canvas. With HUMA and unified memory pools, these GPUs can be used for certain non-graphics tasks too, like logic/A.I and the such, but at the end of the day they still have to receive the commands from a CPU. GPUs have schedulers and units that issue commands to parts of the GPU to generate the polygons, texture them, anti-aliase etc. but those are more like DSPs in theory, specifically dedicated to only those graphics/logic-orientated commands for speed and efficiency purposes.
Basically, there's no way to program a GPU itself as if it were a CPU; all code still passes through the CPU even if only initially before the CPU commands sub-processors like the GPU to pick up the task from there. But, I guess it could be theoretically possible to customize the GPU with units dedicated to texture cache access and read/write to/from the customized SSDs.
Don't know how they would do that, or if it would be possible with Navi's architectural design, but any kind of effort would need to be collaborative from start to finish between Sony and AMD.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
To further elaborate my opinion, I think both companies will do the same thing MS has done: "twice The GPU power, four times the CPU", etc. They won't go into specifics.
chemical boy
Member
Very impressive, but we return to the same, that is 1080p, and now the base will be 4K.
Niked
Member
Ok, -90% = not going to happen then
XinTniX
Neo Member
If I'm not wrong SSGs GPUs from AMD already do something like that.
"The extended framebuffer uses NAND Flash (we explain this here) storage. It's effectively an SSD bolted onto a GPU, and allows production users to locally store large files that are being actively crunched by the GPU. Whenever the GPU needs a large texture, big data, or composite objects, it'll talk to the CPU (via PCIe bus), which then talks to the system storage device or memory, depending on if that data happens to already be loaded in volatile memory. The SSG bypasses this process by storing files for entire projects locally. Those files remain resident until cleared by the application or user, and only need to be migrated to the SSG once (unless cleared regularly) when working on a project. In this way, it acts as proper solid-state storage; this is not your standard volatile VRAM."
How the Radeon Pro SSG Works - The Basics
Whenever the GPU needs a large texture, big data, or composite objects, it'll talk to the CPU (via PCIe bus), which then talks to the system storage device or memory, depending on if that data happens to already be loaded in volatile memory. -
The purpose of SSGs is other, it is not run gaming, but I think Sony is using this tech in PS5, otherwise, 4.5 GBps rate can become a problem to its CPU.
ruvikx
Banned
Increasing resolution A/creates a quick anti-aliasing fix/makes games look better without effort/cost for the devs & B/pushes TV sales. It's win-win for the industry. But I agree, i.e. imagine how big & great an Elder Scrolls game could be on next gen hardware if it was targeting 1440p as the standard on console? That 4K eats into everything, including the actual mechanics & scope of a video game when it's created to run on fixed hardware (for example Metal Gear Solid on PS1 would probably have only been possible in 2D had Kojima aimed for 1080p resolution at the time).
Lampiao
Member
Considering that even an RTX 2080 suffers to run a game on Ultra + 60fps + 4k with RT, I think technologies like Checkerboard will be used a lot and much more evolved.
2d or lighter games can dream bigger, or even games with very well optimized engines.
chemical boy
Member
And with PS6 surely the base is already 8k ..
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