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[Sosokrates]

And higher res is all that those extra TFs get? Its easy to change res and fps for a dev. The games scale, draw distance, animations, effects, etc will all have to be designed with a 4tf (or more) needing to run them. They can't be easily changed

If a game is 4k on a 12tf machine, it would take about 4tflops (1/3) to render it at 1080p regardless of the other settings. You won't always scale exactly, but the vast majority of the time rendering the pixels takes the majority of the render budget.

Hopefully Lockhart will be 5-6tflops which would give it some overhead for 1440p games on xsx.

 

[Sosokrates]

Uhhh...not sure how I'm going "console warrior" on you? Just saying this makes no sense. Two SKU's like that is NOT the best of both worlds from what we've seen in the market thus far. Far from it. If anything, the market history shows that with the right games and marketing, the LOWER END is where it makes sense to be. That's not what hardcore folks like us probably want (for the most part). Like I said, I'd gladly buy some high end $800 box, but the mass market WOULD NOT and has shown repeatedly that this is the case.

So really, I would see either or both companies putting out a high and low end SKU simply resulting in low sales for the high end and more sales for the low. That's not a win.

Has anyone considered the possibility that MS simply keeps the XoX as their 'low end' box while releasing the new? They've already said games will work on all platforms for at least some time. This gives them a lower end SKU without additional R&D. I still think it means that the XoX would represent the vast bulk of their sales, but....

Sony could do the same thing by simply keeping the PS4 or PS4 Pro alive, but again, I think it would just drive the vast majority of their sales to that end and make the PS5 sales languish. Plus, there's less margin on a low end product line a lot of times and if that's the case, it could severely impact profits for whichever company tries to do this.

I don't think it's happening. I don't think MS is planning on two SKU's. Not right now. I think if anything, those rumors (for both companies) were based on them planning on two possible targets for next gen boxes...a mid range type of box and a high end. But we'll see.

What determines the faint of gen is a combination of factors, so every advantage counts, have the most powerful for the hardcore and the cheapest for the price conscious is the best of both worlds regarding power and price weather you want to admit it or not.

 

[Moses85]

No top vents tho, I wonder if MS will change that in the final design.

They won’t.

 

[Sinthor]

What determines the faint of gen is a combination of factors, so every advantage counts, have the most powerful for the hardcore and the cheapest for the price conscious is the best of both worlds regarding power and price weather you want to admit it or not.

Well, you're right about the combination of factors. We'll have to agree to disagree about having the most powerful and expensive box AND the lowest power/cheapest box. The market history for the past 20+ years imply doesn't bear that out. Plus, I think making a 'low end' box somehow that you can sell at $299 or less that will run the exact same games as your high end 12TF beast box with just graphical downgrades is a pipe dream. You'd need ALL the same hardware to do this (CPU, etc.) except substitute a full RDNA 2.0 Navi GPU that somehow is that inexpensive and only runs at like what...4-6TF? I don't know that that even exists and certainly think that would be a cost prohibitive waste of silicon. I still think it far likely that to try to do this kind of thing MS just keeps the XoX and knocks the hell out of it's price. That would be the most cost effective way to do this. But we shall see.

Edit to add this- You know...maybe it IS possible to do that low end, but in a much different way. It would depend on the marketing but I think, assuming the new Xbox is $499 (let's say it is) that you design a $399 box that will run the same games but lower resolution or whatever graphical compromises that entails. Now...if you can successfully market THAT box to the public as a "cheap" option because you say it will only cost you $30 a month for two years and you get the Game Pass included for those two years. So you end up getting $720 from the consumers (plus whatever interest you charge) and then after the two years they have to pay $60 or whatever per year for Game Pass after that. Moving to a subscription model in some way like that MIGHT allow you to pull it off. But it depends on whether the public truly perceives that subscription as cheap or whether they figure they'd rather pay the $499 up front for your high end hardware instead. I dunno. Just a thought.

I think what Sony started with the PS4/PS4 Pro is pretty much the map for the future. Same game box for the devices in each family, but "patched" versions for higher end hardware that gives you different graphics and even features. It's a smart way to go iterative with your hardware strategy.

 

[bitbydeath]

Not next-gen related but interesting to see what AMD have cooking in super-big Navi.

AMD Big Navi Spotted? - Updated, the twitter photo is a confirmed fake

The discussion as to what exactly to expect from AMD's upcoming flagship GPU series (Big Navi) has been ongoing. Personally I expect a GDDR6 based product, however, there might be an enthusiast and e...

www.guru3d.com

 

[xPikYx]

You know what I think? I think that all this saying about Sony targeting 9tf, not having RDNA2, pricing 399$ is just, pardon me, bullshit. Sony is the market leader, full stop. All this thing of them being so quiet and silent reflects that. They don't need to eun after anybody, MS is in the position to do so, and their are doing so. As a market leader, they don't need to lower the bar of the competition. When Apple was (is?) the market leader in smartphones has ever been scared of pricing up the cost of the iphone year by year up and over 1000$? NO. When nVidia, the gpu market leader released rtx gpus 2 years ago was scared to price their gpus close and over 1000$? NO. So why, in the console market, Sony should somehow be scared of pricing ps5 up to 600/700$ for the best console ever created if they believe it is the case? Playstation is synonym of gaming console since 1994,the last playstation outsold the first competitor, so why Sony should be scared to deliver a 14tf (example) for 700$ if they believe is the absolute best the market can offer, and they can prove it with the best experiences somebody can have on consoles, because what really matters in tge end is the value per money. Ps3 and Xone shared the problem at launch to have a really shit value per money, I believe Sony could really suffer Microsoft more if they deliver a 9tf at 399 console than delivering a 14tf console for 700$

 

[DJ12]

I think Osiris hinted that the Rocksteady one is a Superman/Batman teamup/vs(?) Game.

He said 'if sb says SUPERMAN, WB BeATs him', or something.

SUPERMAN
BAT

They are supposed to be rebooting one of the games, maybe it's going to be called the Martha edition, and it's just a bromance game.

 

[Fdkenzo]

I have a question, Why is Smart Delivery from Microsoft such a big deal? I mean, is normaly as f... you buy a game, you can play on Xbox one, Xbox s, Xbox X and series X. This is already happening and if the new series X is BC is normal to play the same game at a better quality. I think this Smart Delivery would be great if you purchase on Xbox or PC and you can play on Both platform at the cost of one disc.

 

[Psyrgery ES]

Sony doesnt want to say shit because they are having so much fun with what "insiders" are leaking.

As soon as they recover from lmaoing they will be able to announce something. Perhaps the color of the console or the fact that uses electricity to work idk

 

[Kagey K]

I have a question, Why is Smart Delivery from Microsoft such a big deal? I mean, is normaly as f... you buy a game, you can play on Xbox one, Xbox s, Xbox X and series X. This is already happening and if the new series X is BC is normal to play the same game at a better quality. I think this Smart Delivery would be great if you purchase on Xbox or PC and you can play on Both platform at the cost of one disc.

They have been doing that already with play anywhere. All smart delivery means now is have one disc or one digital license, you go to your gaming room where you have a series X and you play the upgraded series X version. Then if you go upstairs and go to go to bed but can’t sleep you throw the same disc or launch it on your Xb1 and the save is there.

Its a one disc (or digital license) to rule them all approach.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

To add.. the price of the XSX and PS5 Pro is a major concern. It could go as high as $800. The XSX is literally the latest development for AMD. The price could interfere with Nvidia's 2080-series of cards if priced much lower than the 2080 Super. I hope that Nvidia drops their prices down when the top of the line next-gen consoles come out *IF* they cost much lower than the 2080. Also PS5 Pro might not see the light of day until 2022.

 

[TLZ]

Not next-gen related but interesting to see what AMD have cooking in super-big Navi.

AMD Big Navi Spotted? - Updated, the twitter photo is a confirmed fake

The discussion as to what exactly to expect from AMD's upcoming flagship GPU series (Big Navi) has been ongoing. Personally I expect a GDDR6 based product, however, there might be an enthusiast and e...

www.guru3d.com

Is this the PS5?

 

[Reindeer]

Is this the PS5?

Yes, with 80 CUs for a premium price of one Michael Pachter.

 

[Sin]

All this rampant speculation is so entertaining. We'll have most questions answered soon enough.

Can't wait to read the aftermath after all is said and done.

 

[TLZ]

Yes, with 80 CUs for a premium price of one Michael Pachter.

No thank you!

 

[Reindeer]

No thank you!

It was a joke. Michael Pachter said next gen consoles could cost $1000 and that big Navi GPU alone is probably worth that much.

 

[Sinthor]

Is this the PS5?

That would be HILARIOUS, especially at anywhere near a $399 to even $599 price point. Won't happen, but that would be pretty cool. Hey, I'D pay $800 or so for a killer box like that!

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I have a question, Why is Smart Delivery from Microsoft such a big deal? I mean, is normaly as f... you buy a game, you can play on Xbox one, Xbox s, Xbox X and series X. This is already happening and if the new series X is BC is normal to play the same game at a better quality. I think this Smart Delivery would be great if you purchase on Xbox or PC and you can play on Both platform at the cost of one disc.

Because this is the start of a new generation. You also had to rebuy TLOU on PS4 in the beginning of last Gen, right? Well now Sony and Microsoft won't enforce this. You can just use your old copy

 

[Farrell55]

Guys you all have to calm down. Sheesh!

Our text was pretty flaky because he was getting the information from a very high profile worker at Sony.

The text seems to be all over the place.

I never got dates nor prices. As I said before, "expensive" to me means near Nvidia 2080 costs. The guessing is all on me so take it with a grain of salt.

PS5 as of now is 9TF. I specifically asked that and got a yes.

PS5 falls in between performance of the Lockheart and the XSX. That is confirmed.

The iffy part is the PS5 Pro.

"they have one model with lower specs than PS5 and one model with higher specs. PS5 is right in the middle" -- talking about the Xbox SKUs.

"tons of rumors that the lower spec xbox is coming out this year".

"XSX is equivalent to the RTX 2080 super"

"unless they plan on selling it for $800 I doubt it will release anytime soon." -- XSX coming out later??

There is other comments like if XSX sells for $500 then that would disrupt Nvidia sells, etc.."

Anyway, I tried to piece together was is happening. It appears like the PS5 Pro is coming later. That would mean the base PS5 is 9TF and perhaps the 2 SKUs for Xbox are releasing during xmas 2020.

So 2 models. Possible 2 coming out from Microsoft but 1 coming out for Sony.

I'm just as confused as you guys but I won't press for straight answers.

Oh Boy you are Finished

 

[Kumomeme]

Not next-gen related but interesting to see what AMD have cooking in super-big Navi.

AMD Big Navi Spotted? - Updated, the twitter photo is a confirmed fake

The discussion as to what exactly to expect from AMD's upcoming flagship GPU series (Big Navi) has been ongoing. Personally I expect a GDDR6 based product, however, there might be an enthusiast and e...

www.guru3d.com

huh i read somewhere Sky Hynix factory had their 800 korean worker quarantine due to coronavirus

 

[Reindeer]

huh i read somewhere Sky Hynix factory had their 800 korean worker quarantine due to coronavirus

Virus is seriously slowing down now, it's gone from few thousand cases a day to less than 500.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,949,997 Cases and 2,852,987 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[Farrell55]

Well Done

 

[Fnord]

Yes, with 80 CUs for a premium price of one Michael Pachter.

You mean we get a kick ass gaming console AND get rid of Pachter? Sounds like win-win to me.

 

[Zero909]

 

[Kagey K]

Oh Boy you are Finished

What if he’s right?

Everyone wants to give everyone else the benefit of the doubt, yet you all dismiss him.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I think, and I say this with an air of both authority -and- confidence, this as of this morning, and this is pure facts so fan boys don’t @ me, but right now, this very moment, I’m drinking a coffee.

Unless you’re vfx pro, in which case I’m drinking a pro coffee.

These are facts.

 

[bitbydeath]

Not that something more exciting.

???

 

[Nickolaidas]

Virus is seriously slowing down now, it's gone from few thousand cases a day to less than 500.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,949,997 Cases and 2,852,987 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Rapidly spreading in Europe though.

 

[DGrayson]

I 100% guarantee you they haven't seen the final form of either console and even less so know the specifications of either console. It is nothing more than a game of Chinese whispers all they are doing is guestimating and keeping people on the edge with info they supposedly have but aren't able to reveal due to one thing or the other untill more info comes out and they allege they had that info but couldn't reveal it.

It is also in the best interest of forums to protect these "insiders" as it gives them an edge on their competitors.

We dont protect insiders. Any vetted insider usually has shown they work in the industry, thats it. Previous mods have said that if any insiders are proven to be lying after the REAL releases of these consoles, actions will be taken.

 

[Kagey K]

I think, and I say this with an air of both authority -and- confidence, this as of this morning, and this is pure facts so fan boys don’t @ me, but right now, this very moment, I’m drinking a coffee.

Unless you’re vfx pro, in which case I’m drinking a pro coffee.

These are facts.

The only facts are that Xbox series 1 is 12 teraflops of RDNA 2. The rest is still speculation.

That is a fact.

Unless you are Ryan House or Mark Cerny or somebody else on the launch team, what you say is speculation based upon facts, not facts themselves,

 

[Reindeer]

Rapidly spreading in Europe though.

Less than 3 cases reported since yesterday in a whole of Europe, I wouldn't say it's rapidly spreading.

 

[FranXico]

Less than 3 cases reported since yesterday in a whole of Europe, I wouldn't say it's rapidly spreading.

Italy is in panic mode already. Although to be fair, it wouldn't take much for Italy to panic (no offense to italian gaffers).

 

[Gavin Stevens]

The only facts are that Xbox series 1 is 12 teraflops of RDNA 2. The rest is still speculation.

That is a fact.

Unless you are Ryan House or Mark Cerny or somebody else on the launch team, what you say is speculation based upon facts, not facts themselves,

First of all, cantTellIfSeriois.gif

Secondly, as I posted yesterday, rdna 2 is up in the air atm, as it’s likely a custom version of a rdna 1 from what I’ve been told.

So cool your jets Starscream.

 

[Reindeer]

Microsoft isn't going to make Xbox support Windows as that would mean billions lost in Xbox Live revenue and the cut they get from games sold on Xbox store. Not happening unless they stop caring about money. Plus there's a whole issue of Xbox being easily hacked if this happens.

 

[FranXico]

The only facts are that Xbox series 1 is 12 teraflops of RDNA 2. The rest is still speculation.

That is a fact.

Unless you are Ryan House or Mark Cerny or somebody else on the launch team, what you say is speculation based upon facts, not facts themselves,

Go back and read his post history. Noy only is he doing more than just guessing, he is a fellow Xbox fan.

 

[Reindeer]

Italy is in panic mode already. Although to be fair, it wouldn't take much for Italy to panic (no offense to italian gaffers).

They just taking precautions. Less than 400 cases is no cause for panic.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

They are supposed to be rebooting one of the games, maybe it's going to be called the Martha edition, and it's just a bromance game.

It's not a superman or batman game. Rocksteady is working on something else, something that you're not ready yet!

 

[Kagey K]

Go back and read his post history. Noy only is he doing more than just guessing, he is a fellow Xbox fan.

I don’t give a fuck what anyone is a fan of.

You can say it’s your best guess or the estimation somebody gave you, you can’t call it a fact until either you prove it or somebody else does.

In this case he has to wait until Sony confirms it. Until then all “insiders” are equally valid and I dismiss them all.

 

[FranXico]

They just taking precautions. Less than 400 cases is no cause for panic.

Is 400 europe wide?

 

[Farrell55]

What if he’s right?

Everyone wants to give everyone else the benefit of the doubt, yet you all dismiss him.

All of his nonsense?

I mean ps5 can be 9TF imo, but it can also be 11-13 TF like most of the Insider have claimed they are close!

And tell me please how can i believe that sony will Launch a 9TF PS5 by the end of the year and introduce at the same Time a PS5 Pro that will Launch 2 years (2022) later With almost the same spec as xbox sx for up to 800$?

Ist that a Smart bussisness move? Will it not harm sales from Standard PS5?

 

[Reindeer]

Is 400 europe wide?

Yeah, it's around 400 in Europe.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I don’t give a fuck what anyone is a fan of.

You can say it’s your best guess or the estimation somebody gave you, you can’t call it a fact until either you prove it or somebody else does.

In this case he has to wait until Sony confirms it. Until then all “insiders” are equally valid and I dismiss them all.

what the fuck are you a smoking?

I said I was having a coffee...?



“I think, and I say this with an air of both authority -and- confidence, this as of this morning, and this is pure facts so fan boys don’t @ me, but right now, this very moment, I’m drinking a coffee.

Unless you’re vfx pro, in which case I’m drinking a pro coffee.

These are facts.”

 

[CrashNBurn_281]

I have a question, Why is Smart Delivery from Microsoft such a big deal? I mean, is normaly as f... you buy a game, you can play on Xbox one, Xbox s, Xbox X and series X. This is already happening and if the new series X is BC is normal to play the same game at a better quality. I think this Smart Delivery would be great if you purchase on Xbox or PC and you can play on Both platform at the cost of one disc.

I think this refers to games that receive upgrades beyond just being playable on the new system. Ie: Skyrim SE Edition, Witcher 3 whatever the X patch was etc...

Any game that receives a patch with upgraded textures, upped resolutions, and the like.

 

[Kagey K]

First of all, cantTellIfSeriois.gif

Secondly, as I posted yesterday, rdna 2 is up in the air atm, as it’s likely a custom version of a rdna 1 from what I’ve been told.

So cool your jets Starscream.

My option means nothing and should be dismissed.

I can’t play specs, and don’t give a shit about them. The only way to know who was right and who was wrong isn’t going to be by these PR announcements, it’s going to take somebody having them both in hand to tear them down.

I didn’t mean to lash out on you, you just happened to be the most recent post.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

That doesn't make sense. First of all, the XSX or hypothetical PS5 Pro are not going anywhere near $800. That is obscene in the console market.

More importantly, you claim that XSX = PS5 Pro, but that the Pro may not hit until 2022? Wouldn't a hypothetical 2022 console release be another leap in tech (albeit, small)?

It honestly feels like you're just throwing shit out there to get a reaction. It'd be great if you're right. But how much do you genuinely believe in your information or sources?

He's just using a backdoor strategy, so if PS5 comes higher than 9TF, he'll say that original PS5 and Lockhart plans have been canceled due to devs asking so or something like that. A last attempt to sound legit/insider-ish and take a shortcut to redemption.

 

[KAL2006]

I'm going to make my final 2 cents in regards to power difference.

I believe Microsoft and Sony went for different goals.

Microsoft went for something that isn't traditional for a console, more like a PC tower, they are going all out and and making a 12TF system and selling at a $500 price with a loss.

Where as Sony will be going for a 8TF traditional design where the system is smaller and not a PC tower and selling for $400 price with a loss.

The reason I have come to this conclusion is because if the GitHub leak and the rumoured BOM of $470 which was higher than Sony expected so that tells me they were aiming for $400. As for GitHub leak not having RT, perhaps it's something that is custom and not included in the test data.

As for not believing other insiders, well Jason had generic they aiming higher than Stadia quote and he later clarified he doesn't know any specs any numbers at all just thats all he heard from few people. Klee said both are double digits which he got right I guess but him doing a self ban and disappearing after he said he knows the exact spec sheet and Sony reveal is in February tells me he doubted himself and didn't want to face the results.

However I hope I am wrong as I am a PS4 owner as long as PS5 is atleast 10-11TF I would jump on PS5 without a doubt. If the difference is 8TF to 12TF I would take a wait and see approach and see if the real world performance is noticeable. I'm not a huge fan of Xbox exclusives in comparison to Sony's and I have the advantage of having my backlog games backwards compatible. However the 360/PS3 gen has shown that I'm not loyal to Sony so we shall see what happens.

Anyways in conclusion I'm expecting
Series S - $300
PS5 - $400-$450
Series X - $500-$550

The extra $50 for Series X and PS5 is to make up for the unexpected price hike for BOM so I'm not sure if MS or Sony will eat the cost. If Sony go $450-500 I expect Microsoft to drop Series S and only go with Series X. And if Series S exists I expect that to be a fall 2021 release.

 

[Kagey K]

what the fuck are you a smoking?

I said I was having a coffee...?



“I think, and I say this with an air of both authority -and- confidence, this as of this morning, and this is pure facts so fan boys don’t @ me, but right now, this very moment, I’m drinking a coffee.

Unless you’re vfx pro, in which case I’m drinking a pro coffee.

These are facts.”

I replied to this In a different post.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

BTW some of you are not quite grasping what smart delivery is. It means that you will get the correct version of the game no matter what console you are on, with a single copy of the game.

A lot of you are comparing this to pro and x releases, but that’s not quite right. A more appropriate analogy would be Forza Horizon 2, as that was actually two totally different engines and games, by two totally different teams, for two totally different systems.

So while yes it will cover things like Bc and FC, it will also help with unique skus for each console.

 

[HolyTruth]

Can someone update OP please?
We know that Full RDNA 2.0 etc is supported by series X

Dunno, but what others rumors say about AMD and Sony made some kinda of partnership for develop Navi hardware and leave Microsoft with no other solution. besides Vega.
Just my guess.

Love your username
It would be funny af if it’s exactly the other way around.

MS and AMD exclusive partnership for full RDNA 2.0 support whereas Sonly only gets a crappy RDNA 1.0 or 1.5 at best.

Currently everything points to exactly this scenario.

 

[Farrell55]

what the fuck are you a smoking?

I said I was having a coffee...?



“I think, and I say this with an air of both authority -and- confidence, this as of this morning, and this is pure facts so fan boys don’t @ me, but right now, this very moment, I’m drinking a coffee.

Unless you’re vfx pro, in which case I’m drinking a pro coffee.

These are facts.”

Maybe he is a Fanatic Xboy or Github worshipper