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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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M

Moneal

Member
Rightisright Rightisright I can't believe they would actually delay it a year for just a GPU upclock. Yea this was almost 1k pages ago, but I like to admit when I am wrong.

They should have just released an 8TF machine last year without RT. Then they could have released a 14TF RT machine in 2021.

VanSiriusGabriel said:
Still, they knew everyone was watching, c'mon. If they didn't calculate this they really are off the balcony here.
Click to expand...

Yep, this was announced on their twitter and put up on their blog. While the video was originally meant for devs, posting like that changed the audience. Sony should have known that and changed things or only sent the video to devs.
 
M-V2

M-V2

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Rewatching vid now, Cerny said he doesn't expect anything more than 2% dip in clocks from the cap. So that would put the GPU base clock at 10.07 TF, provided we take his claims at face value.

It's possible the drop is more than that, I would say it could be between 5% - 10% at most. Or a variable clock drop to 9.76 TF to 9.247 TF at lowest for more demanding games when the boost 2.23 GHz clock can't be sustained (either due to hardware resource demand or poor optimization). Honestly the mention of variable clock is a bit confusing because I'm assuming the 2.23 GHz is the default clock and it might drop down from that, but others are interpreting it as 2.23 GHz being the maximum cap and general clock performance is a bit lower than that usually 🤷‍♂️

But that is a very extreme example; Cerny seems confident it'll be near the 10.27 TF number vast majority of time so I'd say general performance is 10.07 TF - 10.28 TF probably 90%-99% of time.
Click to expand...
They could've saved all that headache by going with 48 or 52CU but well it is what it's. BC ruined it all.
 
icerock

icerock

Member
Ladies and gents, there is plenty to be concerned about after todays info drop, but concern trolling about VRS and RT is next-level pisstake. Both are bound to RDNA2 architecture which PS5 is using.

Not even Digital Foundry fully know how AMDs RT tech works, whether faster clocks they can help mitigate lesser CUs or not for RT performance. We simply don't know, RT tanks performance on almost any GPU and no doubt Series X will have an advantage but wait for actual games and comparison before throwing out 44% numbers.

Jimmyisback said:
This is what happend. 9.2 Teraflops was right on the money. Sony paniced. So they messed with the clock speeds. They didn't realize they need substantial cooling by doing that. So the cost of build materials increased eg more expensive cooling needed. But 10.XX TF isn't sustainable. its only for boost speeds.
Click to expand...

This is not really accurate. Sony manufactured an APU named Gonzalo, which housed an iGPU Ariel which was based on RDNA1 architecture. To me, it was 2019 PS5 SoC. But, internally (for reasons known to them), launch was delayed, which meant they had to launch simultaneously with Xbox. It was here, when the APU underwent a revision and we got Flute, which housed an iGPU Oberon based on RDNA2.

I simply think a complete redesign of the SoC wasn't possible that late, so they stuck with 18WGP count. Effiency gains out of RDNA2 gave them an option to overclock the chip extremely high. Cooling patent points towards it. When you think about it, there is no need to have such an expansive solution for a small SoC unless there was a specific necessity.

M-V2 said:
They could've saved all that headache by going with 48 or 52CU but well it is what it's. BC ruined it all.
Click to expand...

BC definitely played a role, they couldn't makes changes with the structure too much without messing things up. Switch from RDNA1 to RDNA2 also could have something to do with BC troubles. Overall, I think it was lack of time above anything which affected them most.


Fatal Enigma said:
Will we still be getting that 8GB GDDR5 moment? :pie_thinking:
Click to expand...

Yes, it's called BloodBorne II :messenger_winking:
 
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Pantz

Pantz

Member
“Why would anybody play this?” says Sony’s Jim Ryan about backwards compatibility

I'm disappointed but there is still hope.

If they are doing BC on a game by game basis now, it could be a good thing going forward. If they follow Microsofts BC team it could lead to bug free and near flawless emulation. It could mean these games being future proofed into the PS family digital library into next-next-gen. It could mean that down the line they start adding PS1-PS3 games on a game by game basis into that digital library. *wipes tear*

*ahem*

Yeah that's concerning that they only mention the top 100 games and that most of them will work. Really need some clarification here. Does this mean that less than 100 PS4 games will be playable at launch or that those are the ones specially enhanced or something?

I'm still stuck buying physical PS4 games because I want a future proofed digital library. I thought these consoles are supposed to be really close to PC now and PC games still work when you upgrade. Man it's annoying. I really hope this is just the start of Sony building a BC team like Microsoft so they can have their own future-proof digital library like Steam as the best example. "Gamers should never be forced to purchase the same game twice or pay for upgrades." -Cyberpunk. Looking at you too Nintendo.

So much for the dream of selling PS4 to help pay for PS5. Still want to get one at launch if I can afford it which is looking kind of sketchy in the future.
 
whoever81

whoever81

Member
chemical boy said:
The feeling I have is that Sony has not presented the PS5, it has presented a very fast ssd.
Click to expand...
Sony has not presented anything actually. Talked a bit about specs + Logo

I don't care (much) about the 2TF difference. I am SSD-hyped.

That presentation though...What the flying fuck was that! I was in shock initially. It was almost nightmarishly bad.
Cerny looked like a hostage delivering a ransom plea. The lighting, the camera position. The lack of enthusiasm. Google Assistant has more emotional output.

It was for developers you say. Sure, I hear that.


tl;dr This should have not been live streamed.
Is Cerny ok?
 
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Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
Still can't believe Mark Cerny talked about SSD for 1 hour. Never thought I'd see Sony in this position after how they dominated this gen. It's also the first time ever that Sony is not the most powerful console straight out of the gate.
 
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dangopee

dangopee

Neo Member
Marlenus said:
2080 Vs 2070 super factory OC variants.

They are very close to each other and with the 2070 super having the same number of rops as the 2080 it has a pixel fillrate advantage but the performance difference at 4k is similar to the Tflop difference. Even when you OC the core and Ram it only ties with the stock 2080 at best in dx12 titles.

So for GPUs wide and slow Vs narrow and fast doesn't really make much difference. Some games will prefer wider and others will prefer higher clocks it all depends on what parts of the architecture cause a rendering bottleneck.
Click to expand...

I do agree with you that for typical graphics workloads NaF vs WaS will not make much difference 95% of the time if TFLOPS are the same.

As for the consoles, do we actually know the number of ROPs they have? Is it possible they have the same ROP count since they are both targeting 4K? Anyway if it were possible for the PS5 GPU to be clocked at 2.63 GHz (bringing it to 12.1 TFLOPS), and the GDDR6 bandwidth increased to parity with XSX, the PS5 would perform the same or better than XSX. I just don't see how it could perform worse in any situation. But in 95% of cases their performance would be very similar.
 
D

DaMonsta

Member
The real power move would be for Microsoft to eat the cost and price the X the same as PS5.

Don’t know exactly how the economics would work out, but I think they’d really give PlayStation stiff competition worldwide if they get the price close
 
CrustyBritches

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
giphy.gif
 
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onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
o'dium said:
Certainly. I have several friends who are developers I’m various studios, and one had given me various bits of info. The info told me about the info drop on the 5th, which I alluded to with hints like Johnny 5 etc. That came to be. It was verified before posting it with @Mod of War and I posted some hints, but it came true. The original hints they gave me on spec was that it was 10.5ish with a target of 11.5, and that they were currently on the lower end of that value but hit some thermal issues. But this wasn’t verified with Gaf. I then got updated values that it was 11.6, and that there was still thermal issues. This was verified, and I then posted some pigeon hints and fun.

Now here’s the thing. The original value? Is was pretty much spot on. 10.5ish with thermal issues could mean that’s where it was at, at one points, before being lowered to 10.2. That’s realistic to me.

It’s my believe that the values were changed by my friend because at this point they knew I was posting it on Gaf, and they got the jitters or something. I don’t know, I’m still trying to figure that part out, and don’t want to instantly jump to him being a dick.

So sadly, that’s all there is to it. No massive crime novel, no hidden tricks. I got fed good info, and bought it. But then that info changed and I used that as an update, and it burnt me.

There isn’t much else to say. Sorry it never turned out right, but at least we had a laugh along the way and made the news.
Click to expand...
Really appreciate you being open on this. Thanks!
 
demigod

demigod

Member
DaMonsta said:
The real power move would be for Microsoft to eat the cost and price the X the same as PS5.

Don’t know exactly how the economics would work out, but I think they’d really give PlayStation stiff competition worldwide if they get the price close
Click to expand...

I don't see this happening at all. Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox SAD were all overpriced. There is only so much money the Xbox division gets, it's not up to Phil. If Sony prices it the same, that would be a HUGE FAIL.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Kampfradler said:
mm idk if sony is going on ps3 route again.

many costum parts/solutions
-> ssd extremly fast in theory, but wont be used by third party
-> variable gpu clocks (wasnt the most important benefit of a console that the operating variables like clocks, tf, performance etc. is identical on every
single machine ? how can developers optimize, when the performance is dependent on the cooling conditions of the room ?
-> that over engineered 3d audio stuff which needs fine tuned audioprofiles of the individual user (some even said it sounds like a better stereo lol)

All in all i think sony repeated the mistakes from ps3.
-> too many gimmicks, which are nice to have but not necessary, driving up the costs

and then there is still the theory that they aimed for a 2019 release and realized that MS was targeting 2020.
so they tried to squeeze out as much performance as possible from that 36cus
therefore the need for a better cooling solution.
Click to expand...

Except Sony have a patent for the cooling solution, so maybe yes, maybe no
 
Hawking Radiation

Hawking Radiation

Member
VanSiriusGabriel said:
More like 15-20, higher clocks compensate. The actual difference in TF is around 16% after all, and about heat, according to Cerny the value won't fluctuate more than few %, as you can cool down the system with very tiny changes in power.
Click to expand...
Watching the livestream 2nd time around i come to conclusion that PS5 is extremely efficient in how it achieves its goal. Doing alot with a little.

Also i'm happy this is now out in the open. NOW we can all focus on the fucking games and i'm excited to see them from both MS and Sony.
 
Zero707

Zero707

If I carry on trolling, report me.
DaMonsta said:
The real power move would be for Microsoft to eat the cost and price the X the same as PS5.

Don’t know exactly how the economics would work out, but I think they’d really give PlayStation stiff competition worldwide if they get the price close
Click to expand...
that job is for lockhart
lockhart+ Game Pass is a great bundle
 
CJY

CJY

Banned
DaMonsta said:
The real power move would be for Microsoft to eat the cost and price the X the same as PS5.

Don’t know exactly how the economics would work out, but I think they’d really give PlayStation stiff competition worldwide if they get the price close
Click to expand...
People say $100 isn't a lot of money. Tell that to all the working parents out there when they're choosing which console to buy at Christmas time for little jimmy.

The $100 isn't a lot to me, but it's the difference between me buying a PS5 + an Xbox SX, or just a PS5. If they're priced the same, chances are high I would buy both. No way I'm buying a secondary console that's more expensive that my primary one.
 
N

NickFire

Member
CJY said:
People say $100 isn't a lot of money. Tell that to all the working parents out there when they're choosing which console to buy at Christmas time for little jimmy.

The $100 isn't a lot to me, but it's the difference between me buying a PS5 + an Xbox SX, or just a PS5. If they're priced the same, chances are high I would buy both. No way I'm buying a secondary console that's more expensive that my primary one.
Click to expand...
Anyone that says 100 is not a big difference for a console is wishfully thinking. It is a huge deal for over 90% of purchasers I bet.
 
Dabaus

Dabaus

Banned
As a PS fanboy i have to say im extremely disappointed with today. The 10.2 tflops was welcome but finding out that its not fixed and can dip sounds like marketing spin BS to me. It sounds like github was right all along and it is actually 9tflops with some marketing spin.. MS built a console for the future, sony built one for 2019. And the backwards compatibility not working with even most games? Fuck outta here. I was initially a day one buyer, now im a wait see.
 
D

DaMonsta

Member
demigod said:
I don't see this happening at all. Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox SAD were all overpriced. There is only so much money the Xbox division gets, it's not up to Phil. If Sony prices it the same, that would be a HUGE FAIL.
Click to expand...
Seems Microsoft is cool with holding a high MSRP but also offering discounts based on sales needs.

I could definitely see them, taking losses to promote console ownership.
Zero707 said:
that job is for lockhart
lockhart+ Game Pass is a great bundle
Click to expand...
Imagine if series X is the same price as PS5 and Lockhart is ~$100 cheaper.

I think that’s the only way Microsoft takes significant market share from Sony this gen, only thing is, I don’t know if it would be worth it economically for them.
 
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
M-V2 said:
They could've saved all that headache by going with 48 or 52CU but well it is what it's. BC ruined it all.
Click to expand...

They could've but it's apparent now a 2019 launch was planned at some point and a chip that big in a 2019 console would've probably pushed MSRP to $600 if not even slightly more, especially paired with the SSD.

I'd suspect they used the delayed time to up the clock and further push the SSD, since they focused so much on those two things. And I'm starting to think Shawn Layden's departure might've been due to the system delay and/or not being okay with the development of the project. Certainly something also to do thanks to disagreements with Jim Ryan.
 
VanSiriusGabriel

VanSiriusGabriel

Member
Hawking Radiation said:
Watching the livestream 2nd time around i come to conclusion that PS5 is extremely efficient in how it achieves its goal. Doing alot with a little.

Also i'm happy this is now out in the open. NOW we can all focus on the fucking games and i'm excited to see them from both MS and Sony.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I would like that, but no.
People are gonna say that PS5 is garbage, one gen behind and whatnot. Sony went too technical, they didn't express clearly how PS5 is not THAT far off SeX. It's their fault for not showing one PS4 game on PS5 like MS did.
 
Mriverz

Mriverz

Member
Just got to see how this compares to actual in game footage side by side. Though only 825 gb and not alot of options to upgrade is kinda meh..
 
CJY

CJY

Banned
dangopee said:
Guys, since we're concerned as to how well the PS5 GPU can maintain 2.23 GHz, shouldn't we also be concerned with how well the XSX GPU can maintain 1.825 GHz? Remember, 1.825GHz is also a boost clock. The base clock of the XSX GPU is 1.465 GHz. At 1.465 GHz the XSX GPU only has 9.75 TFLOPS.
Click to expand...
really?
 
Rusco Da Vino

Rusco Da Vino

Member
DeeDogg_ said:
Only gullible morons got trolled. They got the attention they craved so a ban won’t do much.
Let this be a lesson to mods not to “vet” just any loser
Click to expand...

I was told by the @mods once that after the reveal they would ban all those fake insiders who have been feeding us with false info so I guess they will evaluate this matter.

OsirisBlack said:
Let the Shit show begin. I won't duck throw your cabbage and tomatoes.
Click to expand...
☝
By the way, what the hell was that? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Mriverz

Mriverz

Member
dangopee said:
Guys, since we're concerned as to how well the PS5 GPU can maintain 2.23 GHz, shouldn't we also be concerned with how well the XSX GPU can maintain 1.825 GHz? Remember, 1.825GHz is also a boost clock. The base clock of the XSX GPU is 1.465 GHz. At 1.465 GHz the XSX GPU only has 9.75 TFLOPS.
Click to expand...

You have a link for this??
 
Captain Hero

Captain Hero

The Spoiler Soldier
Cheer up .. great things yet to come
Tf doesn’t represent the winning or the losing , games games games and features .. you should take a moment and think about it

Did that reveal sucks ? Yes no one denies it



Is PS5 weak ?

tenor.gif
 
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VanSiriusGabriel

VanSiriusGabriel

Member
Hawking Radiation said:
Its tech talk for a developers conference that's not geared towards the average Joe. What part of that don't you understand?
Click to expand...
I totally get it.
But clearly, it's a FACT that a lot of averages Joe didn't get it. Sony should have calculated this and shift to another type of language.
Marketing is marketing, if people do not understand do not expect to rise their I. Q, talk simpler or get the complains, your choice.
 
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M-V2

M-V2

Member
o'dium said:
Yeah, I see this is a great deal, if Sony price it $100 lower, MS will stall hard. MS need to be serious about their pricing this time and be no more than $50 higher, tops. They have a good console for sure, but they don’t have everybody on board. They need to pump those numbers up.
Click to expand...
I'm a hardcore gamer, I want the PS5 to be as powerful as the SX or really close, I already saved $500 for the machine but these specs (except the SSD) were a disappointment for me. I mean idk at this point I was thinking on getting it day one now I will wait for a pro or whatever.
 
K.N.W.

K.N.W.

Member
M1chl said:
I though it was customised SSD controller.
Click to expand...
To which the SSD plugs. Anyway they don't support any standard Drive at the moment. Cerny said there's no SSd fast enough at the moment. They will start supporting new Drives as they come out and test them.
 
M-V2

M-V2

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
They could've but it's apparent now a 2019 launch was planned at some point and a chip that big in a 2019 console would've probably pushed MSRP to $600 if not even slightly more, especially paired with the SSD.

I'd suspect they used the delayed time to up the clock and further push the SSD, since they focused so much on those two things. And I'm starting to think Shawn Layden's departure might've been due to the system delay and/or not being okay with the development of the project. Certainly something also to do thanks to disagreements with Jim Ryan.
Click to expand...
Dude I never feel comfortable whenever I see Jim Ryan
 
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