Real_Agent_K
Banned
Comments like this just depress me really. I guess i'm delusional because i like Xbox more than Playstation
silly me.
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Comments like this just depress me really. I guess i'm delusional because i like Xbox more than Playstation
silly me.
MarkMe2525
Member
Guys.. I just upgraded my old core 2 duo hp pc with a new SSD. Do I even need a GPU anymore?
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Nononono.A developer from other site:
"
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design."
He's an indie dev.
He needs to be at least an AAA dev, but not famous because famous means attention seeker= PS5 better
Also can't be first party because bias
Also can't be reported by Jason because he's evil (right now)
Plus can't be a VR dev because VR games aren't real games.
Imtjnotu
Member
I still like the design of this thing no matter whatYou might end up using those extra consoles like tables, XSX like an ash tray if you're a smoker.
Imtjnotu
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I don't think it's a bad design myself, it looks good. I would get the PS5 even with that ass-tray design, I really don't care about how the console looks like as I don't look at it while playing.
ResilientBanana
Member
It's almost 1 whole Playstation 4 more power. So after 4K eats 8TFLOPS(Cerny's Prediction), the XSX will have around 4TFLOPS to work with for next-gen fidelity. Oddly enough, that's Lockhart's predected TFLOP number for 1440p.A developer from other site:
"
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design."
Mark Cerny Said Atleast 8TFLOPS Are Needed For True Native 4K - page 4 - System Wars - GameSpot
The PS4 Pro is going to use a variety of techniques to hit 4K resolution for gaming, but it’s not a true 4K machine- it cannot render most of its games in 4K natively. On the other hand, Microsoft claim that the Xbox One Scorpio, their mysterious new
www.gamespot.com
pasterpl
Member
this depends on your audio requirements
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's almost 1 whole Playstation 4 more power. So after 4K eats 8TFLOPS(Cerny's Prediction), the XSX will have around 4TFLOPS to work with for next-gen fidelity. Oddly enough, that's Lockhart's predected TFLOP number for 1440p.
Mark Cerny Said Atleast 8TFLOPS Are Needed For True Native 4K - page 4 - System Wars - GameSpot
The PS4 Pro is going to use a variety of techniques to hit 4K resolution for gaming, but it’s not a true 4K machine- it cannot render most of its games in 4K natively. On the other hand, Microsoft claim that the Xbox One Scorpio, their mysterious new
Yup, but with recent RDNA2 those to can be considered way much higher than that GCN number.
icy121
Member
I was just about to say this. This amount of qualifies and caveats certain individuals use to rationalize what developers are saying is nauseating.
For instance, did you see the Andrea Pessino (RaD CTO) twitter thread that was making the round a few days ago? He basically says something like this, and one of the first responses he got was, "OF course you would say that! You're a SONY developer."
I don't think I've face-palmed harder in my life. Good grief. 
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I don't know why people keep quoting Cerny on this.It's almost 1 whole Playstation 4 more power. So after 4K eats 8TFLOPS(Cerny's Prediction), the XSX will have around 4TFLOPS to work with for next-gen fidelity. Oddly enough, that's Lockhart's predected TFLOP number for 1440p.
Mark Cerny Said Atleast 8TFLOPS Are Needed For True Native 4K - page 4 - System Wars - GameSpot
The PS4 Pro is going to use a variety of techniques to hit 4K resolution for gaming, but it’s not a true 4K machine- it cannot render most of its games in 4K natively. On the other hand, Microsoft claim that the Xbox One Scorpio, their mysterious new
8TF was for last gen
Games are going to require more GPU power compared to last gen.
So it's not an 8 for 8 TF match across both gens.
I'm just gonna throw this out there. Microsoft is an American company.
DaGwaphics
Member
Speed of all chips would be the same on XSX. 10GB on a 320bit bus, plus 6GB on a 192bit bus (the second 1GB on the 2GB chips). The lowered parallelism of the narrower bus lowers max throughput.
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Audiophile
Member
Real_Agent_K
Banned
Nononono.
He's an indie dev.
He needs to be at least an AAA dev, but not famous because famous means attention seeker= PS5 better
Also can't be first party because bias
Also can't be reported by Jason beca
I was just about to say this. This amount of qualifies and caveats certain individuals use to rationalize what developers are saying is nauseating.
For instance, did you see the Andrea Pessino (RaD CTO) twitter thread that was making the round a few days ago? He basically says something like this, and one of the first responses he got was, "OF course you would say that! You're a SONY developer."
I don't think I've face-palmed harder in my life. Good grief.
Same at the fact that even though no one has said anything to that effect about the post in question, you two are in here creating that very narrative.
You best keep on face-palming yourself.
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ResilientBanana
Member
I concur with you. Obviously 8TF RDNA2 performs like a 12TF GCN. That being said, 5.5TF should support the 4K Metric which means PS5 has 4.8TF to play with and the XSX has 6.5TF to play with. Which actually put's Lockhart in a great position to provide Next-Gen visuals at 1440p, logically considering that 4TF RDNA2 performs at a 6TF GCN level with more features. Somehow we got 4K out of the XOX, but I'm happy that the XSS is going to be aiming lower to provide that next-gen visual jump.
Hopefully my calcs are correct there.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
If they do it at $300, expect PS5 to punch the price as low as $400 and eat a loss, then it'll look pretty funny to get an XSX for $500 or Lockhart for $300.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
With that sound GPU offset they would get enough room to catch up with XSX. Lockhart would be strange at this time, I'm not sure about the global market but 1080p is pretty ancient at this point, some 4K TV's are dirt cheap and I've seen them on action and they would be a huge upgrade over any 1080p tv with decent performance.
While we are expecting 8K gaming by 2024, Lockhart would sound like a switch.
I'm not sure how it pans out, I could be wrong anyway.
Wandering Leopard
Member
Both should hit native 4k easily (even factoring the quality of next gen assets and more forms of ray tracing) with the most common frame rate @ 30fps,.
I'm predicting native 4k 60fps will be tough for both, but checkerboard (or dynamic) res and 60fps should be fine.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Actually one person already pointed that dev quote also citing first party devs.Same at the fact that even though no one has said anything to that effect about the post in question, you two are in here creating that very narrative.
You best keep on face-palming yourself.
Anyway don't take it too seriously.
Xiung Wang Wei
Neo Member
this is more accurate
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Can't wait for future 16:9 Sony TV's in the future. 4:3 is getting pretty narrow. Sony might be the first to push for that.
Evilms
Banned
It's not like that, the memory of the XSX is divided into :
6 chips of 2GB
4 chips of 1GB
For a total of 16 GB GDDR6 @ 14 Gbit/s, which makes 10 x 32 bit chips for a single 320-bit bus.
There's no 192-bit bus.
The bandwidth is shared like this :
6 GB @ 1050 MHz (standard memory) for 336 GB/s
10 GB @ 1750 MHz (optimal memory) for 560 GB/s
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I was talking about devs, but ok, everyone go where he\she prefers, I go where the games I prefer are.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I didn't catch your point clearly.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It has nothing to do with heat, it's power capped to avoid heat completely so it'll be the same in summer or winter and every PS5 should react exactly the same as Cerny mentioned.
Audiophile
Member
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ResilientBanana
Member
I don't think Sony will catch up, that's wishful thinking. But both consoles will have impressive games at 4K/60 regardless, I also believe they will be head to head in terms of visuals with the XSX taking the edge for the most part, however, Sony's first parties will make 10.3TF look good regardless.
As for Lockhart Microsoft is trying to hit a price point. I also think they are trying to achieve 1440p/60, not 1080p/60. Which satisefies 2 things. 1080p screens with super-sampling instead of AA, and computer monitors that are 1440p. Not to mention 1440P will upscales to 4K rather well with checkerboard rendering satisfying the majority of people that may not want to pay for power.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
All my friends use heaphones, I;ve been using headsets alone for gaming since 2013. Even on my PC. All my friends mostly use headphones, even if it's a cheap-ass headphone connected to DS4 that results in 2.0 Channel.
This approach is massive as it improves every kind of preferred set, with headsets being superior anyway. Many will jump over it when they see reviews praising the insane experience from those headsets and deep 3D audio quality.
Imtjnotu
Member
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Yup, I got it after.Not sure if you missed the joke or not?!
VS
In my defence, it's really not my fault if those guys named a console like that, 200 I.Q. marketing I guess.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Looking at the CPU and SSD while guessing on a robust cooling system, PS5 selling at $500 could already be eating a loss.
After seeing the SSD, how anybody can think $400 is just crazy to me. I've been saving to purchase the PS5 with the $500 assumption and after the presentation, if anything I'm thinking it might be $550.
Okami Haundo
Member
So I finally had some time listen to the DF talk on PS5 specs. Not gonna lie, I'm much more convinced that it'll be one beast of a machine now. Sort of reminds me of the differences between Android and iPhone.
One goes for raw power, while the other goes lean and specialized. Third party games are gonna be a huge deciding factor for me. I'd like to start with PS5 on day one if they'll be comparable enough.
One goes for raw power, while the other goes lean and specialized. Third party games are gonna be a huge deciding factor for me. I'd like to start with PS5 on day one if they'll be comparable enough.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Comments like this just depress me really. I guess i'm delusional because i like Xbox more than Playstation
You're fine don't worry....for now. Since you joined few days ago, but you are suspicious
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
I was just about to say this. This amount of qualifies and caveats certain individuals use to rationalize what developers are saying is nauseating.
For instance, did you see the Andrea Pessino (RaD CTO) twitter thread that was making the round a few days ago? He basically says something like this, and one of the first responses he got was, "OF course you would say that! You're a SONY developer."
I don't think I've face-palmed harder in my life. Good grief.
Looks that person doesn't know that Andrea is also developing games for X1 and Oculus. So sad
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Easy, put in mind that the BOM for 2080Ti in 2018 was around only $219. Next gen consoles can get that and still sell at $500 or even below
PS3 BOM was $800, sold at $600. Reported BOM is $450 for PS5 and $470-520 for XSX.
Insane Metal
Member
Gamernyc78
Banned
Bo_Hazem
Banned
At this level next gen PS5 should be bought straight from police stations to avoid a bloodbath
Fits for rappers as well.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Sorry, his comment doesn't count. Where is Velocity, dammit?
xacto
Member
"Super tiny temporary" sounds like this guy got his science figured out.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
Man, what a rough week for some. Safe to say both consoles will be great. Just Xbox is the beast this time around for the best place to play most all games. We're almost at the bargaining phase though it looks for some. So we're getting closer to acceptance!
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
There are both great machines and can't wait to see what Devs do with them.
Metroiddarks
Member
If only the new games are not in dev for the older consoles will be great, just imagine gears 6 dev exclusive for XSX.
It's almost 1 whole Playstation 4 more power. So after 4K eats 8TFLOPS(Cerny's Prediction), the XSX will have around 4TFLOPS to work with for next-gen fidelity. Oddly enough, that's Lockhart's predected TFLOP number for 1440p.
Mark Cerny Said Atleast 8TFLOPS Are Needed For True Native 4K - page 4 - System Wars - GameSpot
The PS4 Pro is going to use a variety of techniques to hit 4K resolution for gaming, but it’s not a true 4K machine- it cannot render most of its games in 4K natively. On the other hand, Microsoft claim that the Xbox One Scorpio, their mysterious new
8TF GCU 1.0
4 x 1.8TF GCN PS4 = 7,2TF
8TF GCU 1.0
8TF GCU 1.0
8TF GCU 1.0
8TF GCU 1.0
No it is not.
There are 10 chips but because 4 of them are 1GB chips it means only 10GB is accessible using all 10 32bit memory controllers. The additional 6GB that comes from the 2GB chips is only attached to 6 32bit buses which is 192bits wide.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
SSD helps the GPU:
Less assets loaded as you only load them on the fly = more efficiency. With that slower SSD at XSX you need to load more assets or fill your ram with it.
Overall, the more we get into next gen, the more will see that ultra fast SSD making its potential magic.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
It's almost 1 whole Playstation 4 more power. So after 4K eats 8TFLOPS(Cerny's Prediction), the XSX will have around 4TFLOPS to work with for next-gen fidelity. Oddly enough, that's Lockhart's predected TFLOP number for 1440p.
Mark Cerny Said Atleast 8TFLOPS Are Needed For True Native 4K - page 4 - System Wars - GameSpot
The PS4 Pro is going to use a variety of techniques to hit 4K resolution for gaming, but it’s not a true 4K machine- it cannot render most of its games in 4K natively. On the other hand, Microsoft claim that the Xbox One Scorpio, their mysterious new
Aside from GCN or RDNA or whatever, I think Cerny was talking about what a PS4 Pro that was already settled needed in terms of TFs. Because Xbox One X is 6 TF and reaches native 4K, evidently because it has differences from PS4. X has higher RAM than One, Pro doesn't.
This just proves that TFs aren't by any means all there is to visual quality, even if we are talking about res, let alone all the rest. If there is bottlenecks you aren't going anywere, 8TF means shit by itself. Cerny used it as context for PS4 alone and for gamers because they need the magic number.
Cerny and people like these are talking to the equivalent of toddlers (us) for them, you don't take literally the story about the bees and flowers to explain sex to kids.
Before any hero comes to me: I guess SeX will perform better than PS5. K.
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BGs
Industry Professional
What does it mean that I've gone crazy? (this is how GoogleTranslator translates "BGs got mostly the fuck out")
I didn't know there was so much rivalry between Era and Gaf. I honestly find it absurd / childish (like console warfare).
In my case, I'm not here or there. I am on both sides. But if I write more here than in Era, it is simply a matter of practicality. I could write there more, but like most of my ads are from Gaf as I come here directly first. And when I have Era notices I write there.
You will see few real Insiders wasting time on absurd discussions on the forums. We have enough work in our day to day. If I decided to register, it was to fill in the empty spaces that public transport generated in this current stage of my life (which one day will end).
I started writing more here for two factors, first the color of the web (on both sides I use Dark mode) and second because here I can do "Likes" (so you can see the selection system of a professional, absurd, right? No, It's very important). Many times a "Like" is easier than a response, because I am a person who finds it difficult to synthesize, so many times I like to respond quickly without going overboard and without going through the Translator.
Right now I am not writing there or here, as you may have verified, but in the same way "everyone" knows why.
If it were up to me I would duplicate all the messages in both forums, but in my opinion I find it seedy and unnecessary. More when it's known by everyone that I fart here automatically resonates in Era.
And as you can see, I have extended myself unnecessarily. I will take the opportunity to make some quick answers to some quotes.
Someone was asking about the difference between the old DEVs in favor of PS5. The difference was very small. In favor of PS5 because Sony's tools were more advanced in those early stages. As for hardware they were very similar.
Also some asked me about Multiplat games. Do not worry about the Multiplat. In my opinion I think Microsoft has more to fear than Sony in that regard. I think Microsoft will have to loosen the wallet enough so that you can see the difference between one Multi and another.
I've also read that a supposed ex-Sony designer said the power difference between PS5 and XSX is "quite shocking". I don't know in what context he said it or if I misunderstood him. But if it was to say that XSX is far superior to PS5, I disagree. The nonsense of TFs is getting out of hand.
More tomorrow. Or not.
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