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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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i want to believe.

i have also heard that the ps5 will have better detail, better LOD, better character models so it's going to be extremely interesting to see what happens next gen. did you see the coretech video? apparently the i/o stuff cerny has done might be even more important than the ssd. he seems to have taken a hint from nvidia's turing cards. it seems rdna 2.0 is also doubling down on i/o efficiencies but cerny has gone all out.


guilty as charged. i have a feeling im gonna be perma'd during my 3 week long ban. despite being a hardcore sony fan, i always manage to get myself banned for making fun of or criticizing sony.

Yes, I watched the Coreteks video. Good stuff.

The APU seems to be really customized to reduce all sort of bottlenecks with regards to memory management. All the way from GPU scrubbers, down to reducing any bit of latency between the SSD and RAM, to the Geometry Engine which apparently is able to pre-calculate/estimate stuff so that it's not rendering or utilizing bandwidth on wasted content that's not needed. Effectively trying to prevent misses and latency all the way through the I/O chain. Fascinating stuff.

Like a lot of folks, at first I focused on the TF number. But then I put things in perspective and realized Cerny put a massive amount of thought into this console, and it wasn't necessarily going to win paper wars but it was going to do some bold things that may be taken for granted in a very efficient/cheap package.

I'm sure some of these items will be on the XSX, but from what I understand a lot of it is not, nor is it to the same scale. I know that Klee and Reiner claimed to know the supposed "specs" but I really wonder if that's true. Developers may have fed them performance bencharks and then this was erroneously translated into more TFlops.

Not saying that's actually the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of confusion between what the specs showed and what the actual performance was. Jason Schreir seemed to indicate as such, which isn't to say XSX won't have its own advantages as I've clearly said, but I think a lot of what Cerny is going for is likely the better choice overall even if it can't be marketed as well using traditional metrics of performance.
 
Big fan of your posts on previous/current ree next gen threads lol (just a few days ago was thinking how your posting style was similar), sorry i got annoyed with you at first on this thread wasn't quite familiar with your extreme skepticism or chicken little tactics as you put it :messenger_grinning_sweat:, thought you were either trolling or biased.

Yeah... it seems as if they were just looking for a reason to punish you for being one of the contributors to yesterday's debacle. Ree staff cant handle losing control and they make sure to scold outliers/"troublemakers" to control the herd

I mean they ban you for this
Q0qwQ6A.png

While overlooking this
NKturl6.png

Wow. What did Sony do to warrant that reaction? Did they suggest that universal basic income isn't a great idea?
 

SonGoku

Member
I was watching this video and came across a pretty convincing and alarming post about the PS5. What do you guys think?
lol no this is fake, its the latest concern trolling bullet point people were just discussing the possibility on ree
Cooling a <10W part wouldn't be an issue at all, Sony wouldn't go through all the troubles of designing a custom I/O around the SSD to eliminate bottlenecks only to forget cooling of the SSD. Besides SSD throughput cant vary with thermals on a console that would break the games and vary performance depending of room temperature. Its not even good trolling.

As far as the M2 expansion, Cerny clearly stated it needs to perform up to par with the internal one the custom I/O unit will arbitrate the extra priorities levels and as such it has to be a lil bit faster (6GB/s+) to make up for this overhead, they are working with vendors testing and benchmarking samples, it is heavily implied there'll be PS5 certified drives.
 
I was watching this video and came across a pretty convincing and alarming post about the PS5. What do you guys think?
I think now everyone has a friend in a AAA video game industry, also Cerny feels proud about the cooler solution of PS5 so
I don't think that will be an issue and actually that start as a rumor in console war.

Each side will say something similar just to affect the image of the other console today is the PS5s SSD gets too hot tomorrow
XSXs cannot produce enough gpu in a good price for example.
 
It seems pretty detailed and assertive. I dunno; he doesn't seem to be trolling.
He didn't say any specific many in this forum can create a similar rumor which sound convicent enough for example I can do something
similar about the dev of Xbox found impossible to optimize a game for XSX and the HDD of the old gen.
 
I was watching this video and came across a pretty convincing and alarming post about the PS5. What do you guys think?

HmfAB2t.jpg



ORORDvN.jpg



esaFNAx.jpg



VJgbv6m.jpg

This is complete nonsense.

If Sony truly had an issue with heat and clocks, they could easily do one thing - Drop the clocks. Problem solved. Yeah, you don't get 10.3 TFlops, you get something like 9 instead. Which is a 33% difference, still smaller than anything that happened last gen, and it's NOT going to ruin your generation just because you didn't win the paper war.

These consoles are stress tested well in advance. I have a very hard time believing that Sony would go ahead and announce their clock if they knew it was having so many issues. AMD Built NAVI specifically with Sony in mind. Are they going to deliver them a chip with terrible variable performance? Would Sony's design not be planned WELL in advance after having undergone rigorous testing? The days of the Xbox 360 RROD are gone. Developing/designing a console is a pretty "known" and proven thing for both manufacturers.

This sounds like complete MS FUD. I remember there were a few Xbox fanatics spreading rumors of PS5 Dev kits "running hot", and it sounds like the same crap we heard prior to the PS4 being released. I don't know why these Xbox diehards have to spread misinformation and FUD to make them feel better about their preferred console.

They jump to conclusions based on nothing. Haven't shown the console yet? Oh, they completely FUBAR'd the cooling solution and don't even know what it's going to look like yet. How is this the logical conclusion? We didn't even know what PS4 looked like during a similar timeframe.

Haven't shown any games? Well, neither has MS other than a cinematic trailer. I guess the logical conclusion is they've got nothing and their console design is in shambles?

Pure FUD. Please ignore the trolls.
 
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SonGoku

Member
I believe he is saying that you can have different process in the same chip... like AMD does with the I/O controller of the Ryzen that is 14nm while the rest of the CPU is 7nm.
Ah in that case it can't geordiemp geordiemp consoles APUs have all components (CPU, GPU, IO) on the same die and GPUs can't have IO on a separate die
 
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FeiRR

Banned
Okay, sorry. I didn't know about this. But you can't deny they've been criticised for that support for, like, 3 years. Things are always slow if you have hundreds of thousands of people involved in corporate processes. I also don't think that ARM laptops will suddenly take off, even though mobile Intel chips aren't the most power-efficient.

As for the market leader, aren't Microsoft famous for not winning a single console generation, and lagging behind in the gaming space in terms of raw numbers? Hardly the market leader then, and explains why they're looking innovate in several key ways.
I was talking about the whole company, not just their small Xbox division, which doesn't seem too important for their bosses. That is a huge difference between them and Sony. The latter has just separated SIE from other corporate structures which is great news for gamers. More investment, more focus on SIE because it generates money. Will the decisions be good? We don't know. On the other side, I think that Spencer has a very hard task to accomplish. With limited resources, he's been tasked with making Xbox more profitable, which doesn't leave much room for innovation.
 
This is complete nonsense.

If Sony truly had an issue with heat and clocks, they could easily do one thing - Drop the clocks. Problem solved. Yeah, you don't get 10.3 TFlops, you get something like 9 instead. Which is a 33% difference, still smaller than anything that happened last gen, and it's NOT going to ruin your generation just because you didn't win the paper war.

These consoles are stress tested well in advance. I have a very hard time believing that Sony would go ahead and announce their clock if they knew it was having so many issues. AMD Built NAVI specifically with Sony in mind. Are they going to deliver them a chip with terrible variable performance? Would Sony's design not be planned WELL in advance after having undergone rigorous testing? The days of the Xbox 360 RROD are gone. Developing/designing a console is a pretty "known" and proven thing for both manufacturers.

This sounds like complete MS FUD. I remember there were a few Xbox fanatics spreading rumors of PS5 Dev kits "running hot", and it sounds like the same crap we heard prior to the PS4 being released. I don't know why these Xbox diehards have to spread misinformation and FUD to make them feel better about their preferred console.

They jump to conclusions based on nothing. Haven't shown the console yet? Oh, they completely FUBAR'd the cooling solution and don't even know what it's going to look like yet. How is this the logical conclusion? We didn't even know what PS4 looked like during a similar timeframe.

Haven't shown any games? Well, neither has MS other than a cinematic trailer. I guess the logical conclusion is they've got nothing and their console design is in shambles?

Pure FUD. Please ignore the trolls.
This. Also, remember when Sony showed the PS4 design? Wasn't that until E3 2013 in June? They did basically the same thing then - first Cerny talked about the hardware capabilities without showing the design or any games, and all that stuff came later.
 
This is complete nonsense.

If Sony truly had an issue with heat and clocks, they could easily do one thing - Drop the clocks. Problem solved. Yeah, you don't get 10.3 TFlops, you get something like 9 instead. Which is a 33% difference, still smaller than anything that happened last gen, and it's NOT going to ruin your generation just because you didn't win the paper war.

These consoles are stress tested well in advance. I have a very hard time believing that Sony would go ahead and announce their clock if they knew it was having so many issues. AMD Built NAVI specifically with Sony in mind. Are they going to deliver them a chip with terrible variable performance? Would Sony's design not be planned WELL in advance after having undergone rigorous testing? The days of the Xbox 360 RROD are gone. Developing/designing a console is a pretty "known" and proven thing for both manufacturers.

This sounds like complete MS FUD. I remember there were a few Xbox fanatics spreading rumors of PS5 Dev kits "running hot", and it sounds like the same crap we heard prior to the PS4 being released. I don't know why these Xbox diehards have to spread misinformation and FUD to make them feel better about their preferred console.

They jump to conclusions based on nothing. Haven't shown the console yet? Oh, they completely FUBAR'd the cooling solution and don't even know what it's going to look like yet. How is this the logical conclusion? We didn't even know what PS4 looked like during a similar timeframe.

Haven't shown any games? Well, neither has MS other than a cinematic trailer. I guess the logical conclusion is they've got nothing and their console design is in shambles?

Pure FUD. Please ignore the trolls.


'Cause they know they'll be beaten in streaming and LOD. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

geordiemp

Member
Yeap I guess the 50% perf. watt increase is related to 7nm+ EUV.

I believe he is saying that you can have different process in the same chip... like AMD does with the I/O controller of the Ryzen that is 14nm while the rest of the CPU is 7nm.

I am saying that 7 nm is a node.

EUV is a lithography process step, at 7 nm its more precise, less steps but very expensive. It is done many many tumes as you build and etch layers.

DUV is a lithography process step at 7nm more steps but still more established Litho technology. It is done many many tumes as you build and etch layers.

There maybe other changes as well in process layers and design improvements.

So do ALL the imprvements have to be clear cut and All or nothing ?

What the AMD presentation IMPLIED is full EUV will be 5 nm and go straight to it. Need to watch the AMD presentation again and the comments from the presenter !

My interpretation of that is TSMC used the better technology where it is needed the most on critical layers on 7nm, got improvements but didnot want to labell it full EUV....

Hence why we do not know the price of RDNA2 and what it really costs, people are basing fag packet costing on RDNA1 prices maybe. It could be APU on RDNA2 is a bigger and hence Ps5 die size and Lockart ?

Food for thought.
 
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PS5’s SSD Will Bring “A Paradigm Shift in How We Structure Our Game Worlds” – Quantum League Developer


This article states exactly what I was trying to say, game developers will have to get used how to utilize these new specs and we will probably see some awesome results because of that. However we should'nt expect too much.

Because even if they can now use more assets and so on , someone will have to produce them. That takes time, time is money/cost. Open World games already take several years and hundreds of people to create, so ressources are limited. To be honest, I would probably bet on Rockstar Games to utilise these new specs in a new GTA, if they knew about the next gen specs early enough.

Oh boy this covid-19 shit virus is already doing so much harm and because of this quarantine stuff I've got way more time and that means time is only moving forward slowly, which makes waiting for the new console generation ( or even real news about it ) even more tedious. ( Yeah 1st world problems I know )
 
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kyliethicc

Member
Hey guys just wanted to add this tidbit of info here. My cousin’s best friend’s uncle’s daughter’s boyfriend‘s neighbor’s co-worker knows a guy, who knows a developer’s mom, who read online that the next gen consoles are both cancelled cause the rona is too powerful. You’re welcome. Heard it here first.
 
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geordiemp

Member
Ah in that case it can't geordiemp geordiemp consoles APUs have all components (CPU, GPU, IO) on the same die and GPUs can't have IO on a separate die


From ASML DUV : Our immersion systems can deliver both single-pass and multi-pass lithography and have been designed to be used in combination with EUV lithography to print the different layers of a chip.

So.... the node can be 7nm and a high percentage of the APU use the standard workhorse DUV, but the critcal layers (likely around the gate and things that most effect power / frequency) can use the much more precise EUV....mmmm.

So RDNA2 is likley a mix of process and litho technologies but its still 7nm but much better than RNA1.... and will be more expensive than just RDNA1 for sure. How much ? - We dont know.

Its not just about smaller node = more transistors...and terms like 7n, 7nP 7np+ all DUV or alll EUV are just simplified marketing terms...and the truth lies in a complex mixture.

If RDNA2 is just a LITTLE bit more expensive, then XSX called correctly with bigger APU, if its allot more expensive, Cerny is smart and its more efficient startegy. Lets wait and see the results !!!! Da da da .
 
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kareemna

Member
This article states exactly what I was trying to say, game developers will have to get used how to utilize these new specs and we will probably see some awesome results because of that. However we should'nt expect too much.

Because even if they can now use more assets and so on , someone will have to produce them. That takes time, time is money/cost. Open World games already take several years and hundreds of people to create, so ressources are limited. To be honest, I would probably bet on Rockstar Games to utilise these new specs in a new GTA, if they knew about the next gen specs early enough.

Oh boy this covid-19 shit virus is already doing so much harm and because of this quarantine stuff I've got way more time and that means time is only moving forward slowly, which makes waiting for the new console generation ( or even real news about it ) even more tedious. ( Yeah 1st world problems I know )

I watched the reveal twice (sometime ago) and this paradigm is kind of a secret sauce, something like the GDDR6 and the internal SSD are almost interchangeable ins certain scenarios.

I bet you DF has more, as Richard stated in his in depth that he had a video call with Cerny a day before the reveal. (rewatch the in depth he says so early in the video)
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Are they going to deliver them a chip with terrible variable performance?

AMD doesn't provide the PSU and cooling. Think of laptops, where we have the exact same chip across 20/30/50 laptops, and it performs differently in each one of them. So it's possible that AMD gave Sony exactly what they wanted, but Sony mismanaged the power delivery and cooling.

Anyway, the video is suspiciously from 1st April, so anything related with it should be taken with a truck full of salt. Although there were rumors about PS5 heat issues appearing for months every now and then, so the comment does seem believable, makes sense why we sill don't know how the console looks like.
 

llien

Member
It's a random youtuber, but when PS5 technical architect tells you console is going to have to balance between throttling CPU vs GPU, it's as clear admission of heat issues as it gets.

I would prefer Sony going with 9.7TF and no overheating nonsense. (given that bumping up number of CUs is not an option at this point)

It would be interesting if consoles use 7nm EUV, those high clocks wouldn't take as much power

It is not design compatible with the next node, so highly unlikely they use EUV.
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
Okay, sorry. I didn't know about this. But you can't deny they've been criticised for that support for, like, 3 years. Things are always slow if you have hundreds of thousands of people involved in corporate processes. I also don't think that ARM laptops will suddenly take off, even though mobile Intel chips aren't the most power-efficient...

No worries, it's hard to keep abreast of every little development - I waste far too much time on this stuff!
Largely, Microsoft's support for ARM was dictated by the sales of the devices, which simply didn't catch on. This was also true for their failed Windows Phone platform (which I actually really enjoyed). I can't be too harsh for them not injecting millions into areas of development and support that just aren't returning. Contrast this with their DirectX support, which has established Windows as the defacto PC gaming platform, largely because it was so widely adopted early on. Microsoft's push for further adoption of their DirectX API on other platforms - like Xbox - is all about driving their platform's adoption. It's easier to create games that target DirectX, thus those games will be available on Windows and Xbox, which gives those platforms the necessary content to keep people in their respective ecosystems. It's smart, and explains why Microsoft continues to push their multi-platform services.

… I was talking about the whole company, not just their small Xbox division, which doesn't seem too important for their bosses. That is a huge difference between them and Sony. The latter has just separated SIE from other corporate structures which is great news for gamers. More investment, more focus on SIE because it generates money. Will the decisions be good? We don't know. On the other side, I think that Spencer has a very hard task to accomplish. With limited resources, he's been tasked with making Xbox more profitable, which doesn't leave much room for innovation.
Well frankly, Xbox is really the only consumer-focused-division that's ever gained traction for Microsoft, so I suspect they want to continue to grow it. Years back, Sony basically bottomed out across its numerous divisions, forcing them to cut staff, close factories, and scale back operations.
PlayStation was and is their crown jewel - and for good reason; PlayStation is a terrific brand, and a wonderful product. Sony are the undisputed kings of the video game industry, with everyone from Microsoft to even Nintendo living in their shadow. But I feel its worth remembering that
Sony talks about PlayStation a lot and in detail because, for a long time, it was their only division not losing money hand over fist. They doubled down on it, and it's paid off handsomely.



Xbox, on the other hand, has never been a massive money maker for Microsoft - I suspect it's all about image for Microsoft. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella has spoken about Xbox numerous times, giving it his full support. But, unlike Sony, Microsoft's divisions are all profitable - Nadella has his focus on a lot of places. But Xbox is apart of Nadella's vision for Microsoft. Sony want the Apple model, known as a walled garden. Nadella doesn't want that. For example, back in 2017 he talked about Xbox as being the most profitable gaming network in the world - Xbox is Microsoft's own iTunes, with Games, Movies, and Music all available. In 2019, he talked about Xbox as the "Netflix of games", with things like Game Pass and xCloud driving that. That's Microsoft's vision - all of their stuff available everywhere. Xbox is one piece of the pie for them, not their sole focus - but it's an important one. It gets consumers in the door - so, despite not making billions, it gets a massive budget and a lot leg room. For Sony, PlayStation is the biggest and best bet for the entire company. Which approach is better for us, the gamers? Who really knows - but its fun to speculate :)
 
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Something tells me Phil might want the Series X to be a bit more price competitive against the PS5, especially if PS5 is indeed a $399.99 machine. I think Phil is determined to gain back a big chunk of marketshare. He might think eating cost on the hardware won't matter if people are going to buy Xbox services. Also, I think Phil wants some payback after Sony gave them the 1 -2 knockout at E3 2013.

My honest thoughts are Series X will be $449.99. Also, I don't think Lockhart is a thing anymore, because unless they can make Lockhart come at a $299 price point there is no point in releasing it if its weaker than PS5 and only say $50 cheaper.
 
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Dory16

Banned
Fine. Then play games on Xbox Series X and be happy.
It's more than obvious based on my replies that I have played spiderman on PS4 isn't it? I own both thank you very much. I still don't think Spiderman 2 should offer city traversals at the speed of light because the SSD can do it unless it's the fast travel feature. Fanboys smh
 

FranXico

Member
It's more than obvious based on my replies that I have played spiderman on PS4 isn't it? I own both thank you very much. I still don't think Spiderman 2 should offer city traversals at the speed of light because the SSD can do it unless it's the fast travel feature. Fanboys smh
Do you know what a technical demo is? They just used the Spiderman assets to demonstrate asset streaming last year. That's all.
 
I was watching this video and came across a pretty convincing and alarming post about the PS5. What do you guys think?

HmfAB2t.jpg



ORORDvN.jpg



esaFNAx.jpg



VJgbv6m.jpg
Fact or yet another piece of fanboi fiction? Time will tell.

Anyways... here's the whole thread:

rHzWUDJ.png


Jeff Rickel said:
What's going to be most disappointing is when that m.2 drive is slower than the XSX. I've heard from devs that there are serious heat problems that cause throttling, but Sony had to go with the higher end NVMe in order to keep speeds up to 2GB/s over the long term. It can only burst at the high speed whereas the integrated cooling design on the XSX allows it to maintain it's speeds for days in the stress tests. PS5 has some serious heat issues and throttles a lot for the APU and the storage where the XSX delivers consistently predictable performance for all parts. I know some devs that work on both and they've said the difference is staggering between the two - one person I know that works for Sony said they dropped the ball and are just beginning to realize it. MS' release of the spec to third parties caused Sony to go into full panic. Even before coronavirus, there was talk about PS5 getting delayed six months due to serious design issues. I've heard that still may be likely while MS is ready to manufacture right now once the tooling is ready.
Jeff Rickel said:
@Cutter Elf Talk to the devs working on the games. I know several. I also know people developing directly for Sony. I work in the business in another sector. The collective feeling is Sony screwed up this gen. They underestimated MS and were overconfident.

Again, expect delays to the PS5 and heating problems to rival the Xbox 360. Sony is really concerned right now.

Don't you find it odd they have yet to really show the hardware despite pressure to do so due the MS? Because the hardware fails at an alarming rate. The system cannot maintain its clocks. The m.2 gets hot quick (more throughput means more power consumption means more heat). But even a PCIe 3.0 m.2 got hot in the setup.

The underlying issue is Sony did not realize the form factor needed to be changed and now they are concerned about having to complete redesign it and have it look more the XSX tower because it will look like they have just copied MS.

Do you also not think it odd they have not really shown off some launch titles? Reason? The devs have no idea what to optimize for because Sony has no idea what the PS5 will deliver in consistent performance yet and they do not want to show off captures from dev systems that do not match what a production console would produce.

The people I know closest to it have said it's really bad. Sony is just hoping the PS name can help them weather it for two years so they can get to a redesign.

You've been warned. Sony rested on its laurels and took for granted what was going on. They heard rumors of what MS was doing but did not believe MS could pull it off. Third parties verified Microsoft achieved all they set out to do and have tested the XSX - MS was very open about letting them. That is why Sony rushed things to try to get something out. Them seeing that MS is ready to manufacture right now caused some problems.

The debate right now is do they delay by 6-12 months to get it right or do they force it out to keep pace with Microsoft and deal with a high fail rate and performance issues.

I know for a fact attempts to optimize for PS5 take far more work than for XSX. The devs say the Xbox delivers steady power that is always predictable while the PS5 does not and is not even predictable all the time - this makes optimizing near impossible. It can not always deliver the power you ask it to even in short bursts.
Jeff Rickel said:
@Docwiz2 They aren't. Devs are saying the opposite, that the XSX is way ahead of the PS5. Not sure what developers you're referring to.

There have even been several article published from insiders. I'd heard for awhile that the Xbox was way ahead from people I know.

Sony is trying to do some damage control, but you can just tell buy Cerny's presentation that the PS5 is significantly behind the Xbox. Even if the data throughput functions at peak all the time, it cannot change the computer power that normally hovers around 9 Tflops (Cerny showed you its peak burst). While Tflops are not everything, these both run the same RDNA architecture, so they can easily be compared.

The other thing to consider is 10GB of the Xbox's memory is 110 GB/s faster than the PS5s. So yes, in theory the PS5 could load a section of a game in 1 second as opposed to 3 seconds for the Xbox, but the Xbox has much better bandwidth from the memory where all the graphical data is stored into the APU by a wide margin.

Basically, the Xbox not only has more compute power, but the memory setup allows it to also have fewer skipped cycles, so it not only is about 33% better with compute on average, it also can process more data due to fewer skipped cycles. I've heard several estimate that the XSX is about 50% more powerful on average and real world performance on test mules is sustained at that level while the PS5 is unpredictable.

You also have to ask what devs are reporting it is more powerful? I have never heard that it is from the dev community that works at studios that design for both platforms. A lot of PS fans are sorely disappointed - and these are devs that love the platform.

So please tell me what devs are saying it is more powerful other than fake ones reporting to PS fan sites that just a few weeks ago were claiming the PS5 had 13.8 tflops and 20GB of RAM. Probably the same made up sources.

The PS5 will still be a good console whenever it gets delivered, but the comparisons of titles on both is going to be very, very, very unflattering for the PS5. Most work on next gen games is being done primarily for Xbox first this time around as it was for Xbox 360. Sony optimizations won't improve until about a year after release, so expect a very rough launch for PS5. If Sony has overheating issues and console replacement then it also may delay the upgrade cycle. Microsoft is already working on the mid-cycle upgrade to XSX because they are finished with this one. Sony has only really shot around concepts because they are scrambling just to get this to ship on time.

Right now Microsoft is way ahead on engineering. We'll have to see if their moves to shore up first party gaming will pay dividends on the next gen because that is Sony's prime differentiator and it is a big one.
 
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Xbox, on the other hand, has never been a massive money maker for Microsoft - I suspect it's all about image for Microsoft. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella has spoken about Xbox numerous times, giving it his full support. But, unlike Sony, Microsoft's divisions are all profitable - Nadella has his focus on a lot of places. But Xbox is apart of Nadella's vision for Microsoft. Sony want the Apple model, known as a walled garden. Nadella doesn't want that. For example, back in 2017 he talked about Xbox as being the most profitable gaming network in the world - Xbox is Microsoft's own iTunes, with Games, Movies, and Music all available. In 2019, he talked about Xbox as the "Netflix of games", with things like Game Pass and xCloud driving that. That's Microsoft's vision - all of their stuff available everywhere. Xbox is one piece of the pie for them, not their sole focus - but it's an important one. It gets consumers in the door - so, despite not making billions, it gets a massive budget and a lot leg room. For Sony, PlayStation is the biggest and best bet for the entire company. Which approach is better for us, the gamers? Who really knows - but its fun to speculate :)

See and that's the reason I'm not interested in Xbox to begin with. I never saw a Xbox exclusive Game that had me excited and hyped.
And now they are pushing hard towards multiplattform/streaming and yet still creating a console. There's simply no reason for _me_ to buy an xbox as I am primarily playing on pc anyways. And so are all of my friends.

For me Sony had in every generation a few titles that were in some kind really special and genre defining.
On top of that I'm not a graphic whore, meaning I don't need the graphics to be top notch. I actually enjoy many 2d / xBit gprahic games for their gameplay. So I tend not to invest much into hardware as long as I don't feel forced to.
So Sony consoles had the benefit to improve graphics on years old hardware without any investment from my side.

Despite all that I get excited whenever some new tech arrives, so when Google introduced their Stadia I got excited about the possibilites that exclusive games for Stadia could have, however they did not deliver anything meaningful yet and didn't even announce any game that could get me hyped. Which is extremly dissapointing, and also the mobile internet speed in germany sucks massivly so I can't even use Stadia when I'm outside/travelling. So right now I don't see any advantages in streaming games.

To sum it all up, right now I am cautiously excited for the PS5 however I am going to wait for more Information about every other detail about it and especially about exclusive games for PS5 before I'll buy it, and not to forget - I really hope they'll release a PSVR 2.0 also. I can't wait for VR to get mainstream in Hardware and Software.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Xbox, on the other hand, has never been a massive money maker for Microsoft.

Hard to tell, X360 was their biggest success no doubts, however the 512MB RAM thanks to Cliffy B and Gears as well as RROD failures cost them quite a lot, but on the other hand, forcing a paid online on not even dedicated servers they had to supply but on P2P protocol basically gave them shitloads of free money month after month, year after year, for like a whole decade, as oppose to PS3's free PSN. It would even explain why they wanted to force the "always online" concept so much with XB1.
 

Smoke6

Member
I highly doubt Sony has dropped the ball regarding this console! Sony has always done things on their time and not ever made shift of things in order to respond to news of the competition like how some of these fanboys would want them to do. News should be coming soon to put all this to rest and people do forget that the whole world is facing a crisis and I’m sure it’s hard to try and ramp up a marketing campaign during this time as I feel that would do more harm than good
 
The heating issues are too detailed to be completely manufactured. IT's a fact that Sony is reluctant to showing the PS5 even at this late stage and has only presented slides and (non sustainable) spec numbers numbers so far. Something is going on.
Dude wtf.last time sony showed ps4 in june 2013. Nothing is out of ordinary . stop spreading fud or go do it in YouTube comment section lol
 
yep. i noticed that too. i actually survived six hours after making that post, and only got banned after alex threw a fit and basically forced the mods to ban everyone.

as for trolling, i like to joke around and make fun of both sony and MS, and especially nintendo. they say there is a hint of truth in every joke, and thats why i get banned so often i guess. my fault is assuming everyone knows im a sony fan, and knows that if im being skeptical of cerny's variable clocks design, im not doing it because im an xbox MVP in disguise. i just genuinely disagree with those choices.

even my extreme skepticism was me being genuinely disappointed by cerny's meeting. the coretech video made me understand some of cerny's choices and ive begun to come around. like james pointed out, this could be a very special console. sony just needs to show it already.

Schreier also said on his podcast that Sony screwed up with not showing what make the PS5 a really special hardware because right now most of the people think it's a weaker console with a better SSD than the Xbox.

I'm really interested to see what this console is capable at first it was easy to be disapointed with the GPU of the PS5 but when you think at all the things Cerny seems to have thought it could be a really interesting console.
 
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