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Nivek OnlyOn
Member
PS4 limited to hdd. Had to boot up the game but PS5 Super SSD can bolt specific chapters directly on OS just by browsing
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Maybe they should consider a more refined Killzone game, or SOCOM that has many gamers waiting for it for FPS. Resistance? I think it's a shit game, but seems like there are people liking it.
Arcade racing is a must, DriveClub was too good for PS4, and has so much potential for something much, much bigger. It was more like Ridge Racer back in PS1, it needs to evolve to match Forza Horizon, The Crew, NFS in terms of modifications and so. Gran Turismo is killing it in the sim field and it's even holding its own FiA certified eSport racing, plus real racing on Nurburgring mated with Nissan GT-R's, I think.
It's like FIFA of racing SIM's. Others just not worth mentioning.
For me, 3rd person view adventure, story-driven singleplayer games are my most important games, but it's healthy for them to expand the first party library for more audience, although they're holding many 3rd party exclusives to fill most of that.
Vaztu
Member
CrysisFreak
Banned
I watched that too haha but it's a good link for sure mate
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Comparing LOD in the 3 or 4 frames following a quick turn will be the new grass counting. Can't wait.Of course, if a dev uses a lower quality texture and reconstructs to a higher quality in real time, that muddies the waters.
That when we say XSX will use duplicates, if there will be no duplicates on PS5, or more duplicates on XSX vs less duplicates on PS5 = 100GB XSX vs 70-30GB on PS5 of the same game depending on how pacy the game is.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
Amazing how every generation that guy can latch on to a buzzword that he thinks only MS have, and ride it into the fucking canyon.
I'm just waiting for the return of 'swizzles'
Metroiddarks
Member
Until more of one forum banned him in the same time
Imtjnotu
Member
As much as I love my xm3, I am not too sure the xm4 would be any better. New Bluetooth standard and maybe a tad better noise canceling.
It would be miner like coming from the qc35 to the 700s.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I'll wait for WH-1000XM3 or XM4 used wired through DualSense and how the quality is compared to PS next headset or other gaming headsets.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
Peak in new cases was 8 days ago In the US. I wanted to see yesterday’s stats before getting overly optimistic. Pretty much matched our models, peaked 6 days earlier than expected. Worst is in. Summer in nearly here.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
I'm expecting innovations from the laundry appliance industry to be transferred to the console game market. Sony going to have water pipe in and water pipe out on the PS5.
Sony Laundry has nothing to do with Sony we know, it's another company only have the same btw.
DaGwaphics
Member
It would surprise me if there were any differences in install size that were this dramatic. A game typically already contains multiple data sets for objects, to allow for shifting LOD priorities. Not doing that would actually result in a less realistic image when objects moved farther away in the scene. Excessive detail at too great a distance isn't desirable.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, probably here might come the mesh shading tech to gimp them instead of having duplicates? We are approaching a new era of gaming that we don't know all about, I guess. Future will tell.
PaintTinJr
Member
Surely there is still so much to consider and gnaw from what we’ve already been served
For instance, people keep mentioning the ASIC for audio in the XsX using CPU bandwidth and then inferring the PS5 Tempest (engine) operating in 3D audio mode will do the same. But the comparison of an ASIC and an SPU is like comparing Fixed path T&L to GPGPU...and given the SPU description of the Tempest engine, we can probably safely assume that like SPUs it is a complete satellite processor (a DF desc of the SPUs) . Thus only requiring the Zen2 to set it up at game boot time – then it should be able to run independently using scratchpad RAM(maybe 8x Zen2 cores L1 or L2 caches in total size?) and only occupy main memory bandwidth when DMA’ing to 16GB of unified GDDR6 memory.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Does it support Bluetooth 5.0 (XM3)? If not, then most likey XM4 will, and PS5 as well. But I think it's safer to wait until we see reviews before investing in one. PS5 promise for all headsets/sound systems support is quite BOLD to say the least, expecting DualSense will send that quality through its 3.5 AUX.
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DaGwaphics
Member
No doubt. I think broad use of mesh shading will allow for much more expansive worlds.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Surely there is still so much to consider and gnaw from what we’ve already been served
For instance, people keep mentioning the ASIC for audio in the XsX using CPU bandwidth and then inferring the PS5 Tempest (engine) operating in 3D audio mode will do the same. But the comparison of an ASIC and an SPU is like comparing Fixed path T&L to GPGPU...and given the SPU description of the Tempest engine, we can probably safely assume that like SPUs it is a complete satellite processor (a DF desc of the SPUs) . Thus only requiring the Zen2 to set it up at game boot time – then it should be able to run independently using scratchpad RAM(maybe 8x Zen2 cores L1 or L2 caches in total size?) and only occupy main memory bandwidth when DMA’ing to 16GB of unified GDDR6 memory.
Cerny already mentioned that using the tempest engine developers will have to be careful otherwise it may take up to 20GB/s of bandwidth.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
www.eurogamer.net
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PaintTinJr
Member
It depends what he meant by can. The 6x SPUs could have flooded the northbridge with requests on the PS3 at the expense of the PPU and communication to the RSX. If the Tempest Engine doesn't have scratch memory and can't run in isolation like an SPU, then I would argue that comparing it to SPUs needed more clarity on the limits of the SPU-ness.Cerny already mentioned that using the tempest engine developers will have to be careful otherwise it may take up to 20GB/s of bandwidth.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
ResilientBanana
Member
So almost exactly the way Microsoft accomplished the same thing.Cerny already mentioned that using the tempest engine developers will have to be careful otherwise it may take up to 20GB/s of bandwidth.
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
Imtjnotu
Member
Xm3 only supports 4.2..
I'll upgrade if they include Bluetooth 5.2 if not I'll just stay where I'm at
SonGoku
Member
Imagine buying those trash hype beast brands in the first place. Buy Senheiser or Sony for quality headsets.
Consider GPU is working on 10GB pool at near full speed when the CPU has to access the slow pool. For the GPU to continue its work it needs access to the 10 chips because the data its working with is spread across all 10 chips hence 560GB/s bandwidth. So that leaves 2 options:
- Stall GPU access for a few cycles and let CPU pull its data as fast as possible (at 336GB/s) to quickly resume GPU work in the following cycles
- Split chip access using 16bit address for the duration of CPU work. This will allow simultaneous GPU/CPU access but will have the effect of halving their respective bandwidth 280GB/s & 168GB/s
I understand previous implementations of TSS weren't enabled by hardware, nvidia introduced hardware accelerated TSS with Turing months before DX API supported it with sampler feedback
Microsoft Announces DirectX 12 Ultimate: A New Standard for Next-Gen Games, Supported by GeForce RTX
Ray Tracing, Mesh Shading, Sampler Feedback and Variable Rate Shading, features supported since 2018 on GeForce RTX graphics cards, coming to Microsoft’s DirectX 12 Ultimate API, their new standard for next-gen games.
www.nvidia.com
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thurnishaleygw
Member
For a couple of you asking about what is good when it comes to a headset (I think you were one of them,
Bo_Hazem
), definitely follow the advice of waiting to see what the new consoles are compatible with, let's see if they work with APTX HD for bluetooth stuff, and for sure, the way to go is a good DAC/Amp and the absolutely best headphones/headset you can go for. I'd say go for something like Sennheiser, they can be pricey, but they've got more affordable options that work really well too. AKGs are not too shaby either, and definitely Sony has good ones too. I guess it all depends on the price point you're looking for.
Bo_Hazem
), definitely follow the advice of waiting to see what the new consoles are compatible with, let's see if they work with APTX HD for bluetooth stuff, and for sure, the way to go is a good DAC/Amp and the absolutely best headphones/headset you can go for. I'd say go for something like Sennheiser, they can be pricey, but they've got more affordable options that work really well too. AKGs are not too shaby either, and definitely Sony has good ones too. I guess it all depends on the price point you're looking for.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
VRS can be done if the PS5 GPU actually has hardware support for it. Primitive Shaders and VRS are two entirely separate features. The presence of one doesn't automatically mean the other is present. VRS doesn't just come with the Primitive Shaders feature. I say this because the way you said what you just said makes it sound like you are implying Primitive Shaders in itself is confirmation of VRS, but that's not the case.
Vega GPUs supported Primitive Shaders, but no VRS support. And the feature was never actually made properly available to developers because there were flaws in the implementation. They gained zero performance benefit from its use on Vega according to Anandtech.
RDNA 1 is the first AMD GPU architecture to fully activate or expose Primitive Shaders and they had to make hardware fixes in RDNA 1 before doing so according to Anandtech, but it's important to keep in mind that there was still no VRS. RDNA 2 is the first time AMD is adding VRS to their GPU architecture. Nvidia has supported it since Turing.
We really still don't know if the PS5 GPU actually supports VRS because to this point they haven't uttered a word about it and they've been asked by DF also to my knowledge with no answer.
SonGoku
Member
USB?
PS5 is RDNA2 why wouldn't it support a standard RDNA2 feature?
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
At no point do i say microsoft owns sampler feedback, though the Sampler Feedback Streaming implementation on the Series X is not just standard RDNA 2 and is custom made for Xbox Series X as confirmed by a Microsoft Architect. It doesn't stop others from developing their own similar such streaming solutions utilizing the sampler feedback feature along with other complimenting features, if the hardware supports it.
That said, Sony can't just "develop" something for a hardware feature they may not support and expect it to be the same as the real thing when to this point there is zero evidence that they have the hardware support in their GPU for Sampler Feedback. You keep forgetting there is no guarantee at all that features that are present in Series X or eventually PC RDNA 2 are automatically in PS5. Even Mark Cerny was cautioning people about assuming such similarities automatically exist. Custom RDNA2 means just that, some things may be similar to Xbox Series X and PC RDNA2, and some things may not be.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Standard for RDNA 2 on PC! We know every PC GPU of RDNA 2 will support Sampler Feedback because it has to and must. Last I checked the PS5 is no PC. That same guarantee of a specific feature because something else supports it doesn't, and has never, held true for games consoles, and that remains the case for PS5 and Xbox Series X.
PS5 and Xbox Series X are Custom RDNA 2. Microsoft, for their part, has actually confirmed they have these features. Sony to this point has not, not even a peep, and they've been asked. It's really as simple as that.
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Bonsaibäumchen
Member
As far as I can tell the difference is the depth of the audio chip or the capability to be more precise.
Sonys audio solution seems way deeper and more immersive, which is kinda obvious because sony has more direct knowlegde about sound considering their overall portfolio.
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thurnishaleygw
Member
Yeah.
.Man this narrative needs to stop,
Oh boy! It is funny how some people defend their preferred platform... It is time to move on...
Oh boy! It is funny how some people defend their preferred platform... It is time to move on...
SonGoku
Member
The GPU hardware implementation at least is standard RDNA2
Do you have a source that states the GPU hardware implementation is custom made for XSX?
Why would they not support a standard RDNA2 feature that frees up resources?
There is zero evidence that they don't
You keep forgetting all these features you mention are standard RDNA2
Answer this:
Why do you think Sony will go out of their way to remove basic RDNA2 features when current gen PS4/Pro matched and excedeed the feature set of their respective architecture?
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
Are we really doing the insider thing again, really? Matt also said the Github information on PS5 was inaccurate. that it didn't mean anything. He was quite obviously wrong. The "insiders" were wrong. Unless Matt has changed his name to Mark Cerny, I much rather wait and hear that confirmed by the PS5 architect who just finished doing a deep dive presentation for developers and made no such mention. But he did mention an RDNA1 feature, Primitive Shaders, along with confirming the RDNA 2 compute unit, RDNA 2 feature ray tracing with even explicit mention of a PS5 game currently using it along with other aspects of their GPU. No VRS mentioned, no Sampler Feedback.
And we can't even be 100% certain that Primitive Shaders and Mesh Shaders are even the same things. We know the basic fundamental goals are the same, but this is why the have tiers in DirectX for this kind of stuff, because sometimes a piece of hardware can support something, but not support it to the same extent as another piece of hardware.
Metroiddarks
Member
Looks like he is just tired of our discussion maybe he is just thinking "I will not said anything because you know NDA "
lepermessiah
Member
I'm just waiting for the next deep dive with Cerny, he usually makes me wait first then butters me up for the tear down later.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Thanks a lot for this precious post, we were being pulled into a FUD blackhole here that Mesh Shading/VRS are only XSX/PC exclusives.
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ethomaz
Banned
Is that Windows 10?Still no
FranXico
Member
Not any different from the "Not RDNA2 enough" FUD blackhole that certain people try to feed every now and then.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Mah boi NXGamer putting out another great next-gen analysis video. Tho I had a hard time focusing due to staring at Jill's fantastic booty
But to put it briefly, he goes into why looking at the TFs alone is not very meaningful, and you need to look at a lot of other things like CU count, TMU amount, ROPs, clock rates, bandwidth etc to really get a picture of what the GPUs will do.
Good news is that next-gen GPUs will seemingly reach MUCH higher near their theoretical performance numbers than previous gen ones. Some of the numbers of actual GPU utilization he pointed out for PS4/XBO/Pro/X (altho he says don't take them too seriously) were shockingly appalling. GCN sucked donkey balls for efficiency xD.
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SonGoku
Member
It has been true for the entire history of AMD & NV designs for Playstation
Also Cerny implied a discrete GPU similar to PS5s would appear around the same timeframe as a result of their collaboration with AMD. Like Pro & RX470/80
That pretty much confirms PS5 will support standard RDNA2 features found on PC cards come launch
ethomaz
Banned
So in simple terms PS5 supports VRS.
Radical_3d
Member
I don’t get why I had to eat that RE 3 spoiler on a technical video.
lepermessiah
Member
"devs say it's easier and superior thanks to the I/O and SSD" "Nah, why be a dev when one can be authority."
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Sony isn't "removing" anything. They are creating a custom chip. Some things make the cut, others do not. Xbox One X despite coming a year after PS4 Pro didn't have rapid packed math. That's how these things work.
Do I have a source that states the Xbox Series X's hardware implementation of sampler feedback streaming is custom made for XSX? Yes, I do.
Graphics R&D and Engine Architect at Microsoft James Stanard says in reference to somebody asking if the Sampler Feedback Streaming feature is standard RDNA 2, and he clearly says no, it is not. It's custom to Xbox Series X.
You say PS4 Pro matched or exceeded the feature set of its respective architecture, but there was a limit on that, wasn't there? It did not and does not support most of the Vega features. It's a mish mash of AMD roadmap features, which PS5 and Xbox Series X may again be. But so far there's only one company who has come out and stated in clear language that they have support for all of these features. It isn't Sony.
And since this was separately a topic of discussion, here is Alex from Digital Foundry clearing up a lot of confusion that seems to be popping up everywhere in which people are conflating PS5's geometry engine or primitive shaders to be somehow related to or makes VRS somehow unnecessary when they are quite different, though they can compliment each other if used together.
ResilientBanana
Member
Microsoft didn’t detail their chip out, so I’m assuming you’re simply speculating? Microsoft had 3 audio-based research projects if I recall correctly.
Project Acoustics
Project Triton
Microsoft Soundscape
So sure, Sony has made plenty of receivers, headphones, CD players, etc. but both companies have been required to process audio for decades. Neither Sony or Microsoft specialize in audio quite like Bose, Altec Lansing, or Harmon Kardon have. That being said, processing audio and providing speakers are two different things
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DaGwaphics
Member
I don't think anyone thought that either technique was exclusive to Xbox. LOL
Nvidia and AMD are talking about (and in Nvidia's case already implemented) both, and Sony already showed their primitive shader tech, they just name it differently. MS has just customized their VRS approach as opposed to that offered by competitors. Sony could also patent their own VRS technique if they chose.
Gudji
Member
Are we really doubting matt again? He hasn't been wrong. Get your facts right.
You're fucking delusional bud. Go back to xbox era that's where you belong.
Fake
Member
That what I've been seeking for years now.
Unless he saying... nah, can't be.
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FranXico
Member
No confusion at all in the Xbox Discord chat though, I'm sure he can vouch for that!
Thank god we have these true experts who aren't biased or taking sides to clear things up!
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