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It seems to me that Sony/Cerny chose higher quality accessories/console design over a higher Teraflops count. (A Risky Move)

G

GamerEDM

Banned
MiyazakiHatesKojima after reading the responses to this thread
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nikolino840

nikolino840

Member
LordKasual said:
Sony's console absolutely seems like one that was better designed specifically for game-making.

XSX's philosophy seems to be the same as the typical PC philosophy, which is more or less the same thinking that lead to the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X -- give us the same architecture, except make it much stronger.

Ultimately they're doing the same thing, just with different underlying angles.


Xbox is basically going "Here's what you had before, except i've removed the limiters, go ham"

Sony is saying "We made it stronger, except here's a long sheet of extra shit to play with along side it"
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The same Is more easy for the devs no?
For the ps5 now they have to code for the powerful SSD ,make more studies about audio in the engines, doing stuff for the haptic triggers and who know what else
 
O

Onocromin

Banned
Yes SSD's became affordable (within the 1500 dollar price range) about 15 years ago on PC. I expect it to take another 15-20 years before console's start using multi-GPU solutions. On the other hand, Xbox Series X is still hands down 2 more Teraflops of raw overhead graphical horsepower on a closed proprietary system. So if they want the prettiest, best, most technological astute looking game - it's theirs to create.

But console gamers are clueless as ever. I'm glad consoles look like they wanna be PC's.
 
MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
Onocromin said:
On the other hand, Xbox Series X is still hands down 2 more Teraflops of raw overhead graphical horsepower on a closed proprietary system. So if they want the prettiest, best, most technological astute looking game - it's theirs to create.
Click to expand...
The original Xbox and Xbox One X were in this position, but it didn't change the average console gamer/consumer's mind because there are other factors that come into play.
 
Birdo

Birdo

Banned
Vawn said:
Get out of here with this garbage. Making a thread that talks about the strengths of both consoles and personally favoring PS5 is NOT causing trouble.
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I'm tired, man.

I'm tired of this console warrior bullshit, I'm tired of the trolling, I'm tired of the gimmick accounts, I'm tired of the insecure fanboy crap. And to be honest, I'm just tired of this whole forum....

5gsh8bs.gif
 
KingdomHeartsFan

KingdomHeartsFan

Member
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
I don't think you realize how much of a difference the PS5's SSD is compared to the XsX's SSD......
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All I know is it better make a HUGE difference or else its gonna be embarrassing when people go to expand their storage and PS5 gamers are paying more for a 1.6TB SSD than Xbox gamers are for a 2TB SSD. Not to mention the Xbox storage is in addition to the internal storage and doesn't replace it.
 
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O

Onocromin

Banned
The only way a faster SSD could technically make a game look better, is by Either A. allowing you to traverse great distances at higher speeds. B. Allowing more assets to be loaded into the physical game world. C. allowing you to press a button, turn around (while in game, I don't mean what's been demo'd), and step into a new different world/game entirely with immediacy.. and seamlessly - as the games in question would need to be built to accommodate this.

These are the advantages of an SSD... none which are specifically graphical.

Meaning, a faster SSD will not allow you to load in assets with a higher topology/subdivision count it will not allow for better visuals it will allow for different experiences. Faster Virtual Memory means better draw call handling (this is performance related not visual related) and better streaming of distant objects with varying LOD.

Cold hard fact is, if Microsoft wants to harness it's extra TF's it will come far closer to achieving photorealism than it's competitor - as long as it attempt's to do it. If not, you wont see the difference as a consumer. Still wont make a difference when the history books will correctly record and herald the Series X with the Performance/Power crown.
 
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MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
KingdomHeartsFan said:
All I know is it better make a HUGE difference or else its gonna be embarrassing when people go to expand their storage and PS5 gamers are paying more for a 1.6TB SSD than Xbox gamers are for a 2TB SSD. Not to mention the Xbox storage is in addition to the internal storage and doesn't replace it.
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Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't Xbox already say that its storage devices are proprietary, meaning you cannot buy off the shelf SSDs and only from Microsoft?

825GB of a superior SSD is more favourable to a slower but larger SSD. The implications behind Sony's SSD also feeds into its first party titles and how their level designs will differ from the rest of the games, making PS5's exclusives even more unique.
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I disagree,
The PS5 shares a very similar stratagy as the PS4, they aimed to make the best console they could without taking a huge loss, which is why they choose 36cus.
However halfway through development they got wind that ms are aiming for power so the hardware team did what they could to get more performance out of the GPU. I dont buy cernys story that really high clocks was always the goal, it makes no sense, they would of been better off going for 44cus @ 1830mhz the performance would be practically the same and they would have way less of a headache cooling the thing, i dont think it would cost more either, because the cooling would be cheaper.
The DS5 is a natural progression over the DS4 and the SSD is similar to the "future goals" of the ps4s gpgpu hardware.
Sonys approach does have its perks, but at the end of the day what matters is how the game will look and perform, switch like rumble and slightly faster loading times are nice, but its the game playing experience which is the most important.
Also I would not be surprised if Xbox add fancy rumble to the next elite controller.
 
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MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
Onocromin said:
The only way a faster SSD could technically make a game look better, is by Either A. allowing you to traverse great distances at higher speeds. B. Allowing more assets to be loaded into the physical game world. C. allowing you to press a button, turn around (while in game, I don't mean what's been demo'd), and step into a new different world/game entirely with immediacy.. and seamlessly - as the games in question would need to be built to accommodate this.

These are the advantages of an SSD... none which are specifically graphical.

Meaning, a faster SSD will not allow you to load in assets with a higher topology/subdivision count it will not allow for better visuals it will allow for different experiences. Faster Virtual Memory means better draw call handling (this is performance related not visual related) and better streaming of distant objects with varying LOD.

Cold hard fact is, if Microsoft wants to harness it's extra TF's it will come far closer to achieving photorealism than it's competitor - as long as it attempt's to do it. If not, you wont see the difference as a consumer. Still wont make a difference when the history books will correctly record and herald the Series X with the Performance/Power crown.
Click to expand...
Ironic you're downplaying the PS5's SSD but overexaggerating over 1.87 teraflops of extra theoretical teraflops.
 
Jtibh

Jtibh

Banned
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Hear me out.

Ever since the reveal of the luxurious looking DualSense controller and the state-of-the-art SSD, I began to realize Sony and Cerny's approach to focus their budget on other components instead of putting every egg into the basket that is the GPU.

While 10.2 Teraflops is a respectable number to have on any console, the fact that Sony decided to opt out of the archaic Power Battle led me to believe that the PlayStation 5 will have the following:
  • A more lavish and expensive cooling system, according to Bloomberg back in early 2020.
  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A state-of-the-set SSD with a world record speed of 9GB/s and an SSD meticulously designed for ease of development.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • A controller with state-of-the-art haptic feedback and adaptive trigger systems.
  • A more powerful built-in PSU to help mitigate cooling issues further.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
  • A state-of-the-art Audio Engine that rivals the cremè of the crop in the Audio Industry.
So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
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It will be the walkman of this generation.
 
MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
Sosokrates said:
but at the end of the day what matters is how the game will look and perform, switch like rumble and slightly faster loading times are nice, but its the game playing experience which is the most important.
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Look and perfomance is not going to make a turd like Crackdown 3 or, Cerny forgive me, Knack 2 any better in terms of games.

Cerny's GDC panel proved that the overall gaming experience can be improved by focusing on neglected factors such as loading times, audio, controller feedback, etc.
 
KingdomHeartsFan

KingdomHeartsFan

Member
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't Xbox already say that its storage devices are proprietary, meaning you cannot buy off the shelf SSDs and only from Microsoft?

825GB of a superior SSD is more favourable to a slower but larger SSD. The implications behind Sony's SSD also feeds into its first party titles and how their level designs will differ from the rest of the games, making PS5's exclusives even more unique.
Click to expand...
Yea their proprietary but still if I wanna expand my storage I pay $150 and get 1.6TB storage on PS5. If I wanna expand my storage on XSEX I pay $150 and get 2TB in addition to 1TB so i end up with 3TB total (Using made up prices to make a point).

I pay the same amount but I end up with almost double the storage on XSEX compared to PS5. That is a major plus for the XSEX. That SSD in the PS5 better be doing some mindblowing stuff to make up for that and I'm not talking about faster loading screens.
 
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O

Onocromin

Banned
Lighting, shadows and reflections will be conquered within a few generations/GPU cycles. Resolution disparity (the jump from 8k to 16k and then 32/64k/128k ect) will not be handled so elegantly. I just hope Microsoft does not ignore the fact that higher resolution in games does not equal better graphics and actually attempts to harness their console's power advantage for graphical prowess.
 
MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
KingdomHeartsFan said:
Yea their proprietary but still if I wanna expand my storage I pay $150 and get 1.6TB storage on PS5. If I wanna expand my storage on XSEX I pay $150 and get 2TB in addition to 1TB so i end up with 3TB total (Using made up prices to make a point).

I pay the same amount but I end up with almost double the storage on XSEX compared to PS5. That is a major plus for the XSEX. That SSD in the PS5 better be doing some mindblowing stuff to make up for that and I'm not talking about faster loading screens.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.


k37b9se.jpg

 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Onocromin said:
The only way a faster SSD could technically make a game look better, is by Either A. allowing you to traverse great distances at higher speeds. B. Allowing more assets to be loaded into the physical game world. C. allowing you to press a button, turn around (while in game, I don't mean what's been demo'd), and step into a new different world/game entirely with immediacy.. and seamlessly - as the games in question would need to be built to accommodate this.

These are the advantages of an SSD... none which are specifically graphical.

Meaning, a faster SSD will not allow you to load in assets with a higher topology/subdivision count it will not allow for better visuals it will allow for different experiences. Faster Virtual Memory means better draw call handling (this is performance related not visual related) and better streaming of distant objects with varying LOD.

Cold hard fact is, if Microsoft wants to harness it's extra TF's it will come far closer to achieving photorealism than it's competitor - as long as it attempt's to do it. If not, you wont see the difference as a consumer. Still wont make a difference when the history books will correctly record and herald the Series X with the Performance/Power crown.
Click to expand...

Bro we see through the schilling 👀new account and you are going hard to prop up Xbox lol

No matter how hard you go Sony will still have the best games, be remembered for their goty contenders and winners like every Gen in your history books and their dope hardware and features. They will still outsell Xbox and still be remembered as the market leader in your history books.
 
O

Onocromin

Banned
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Ironic you're downplaying the PS5's SSD but overexaggerating over 1.87 teraflops of extra theoretical teraflops.
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What's ironic is I, as a computer scientist have put a lot of thought into the advantages of a faster SSD and none of these advantages equate to assets with higher polygon count's based purely on a next gen SSD array. The only performance I can manage to see garnered will be in the draw call department with the theoretically quicker Virtual Memory. Every asset rendered in game creates 1-4 drawcalls which could technically make some games more efficient and in fact possible that were not possible before. This will not improve texture's aside from whatever proprietary tricks they may have programmed into the architecture and it will certainly not mean higher polygon count's across standard assets, but perhaps more standard objects scattered across screen and displayed than a slower ssd.

Series X on the other hand can easily add another level of subdivision across all of it's asset's, begin adding in legitimate sculpt detail and then re-topologize those same assets to increase it's Poly Count with negligible to no performance impact.
 
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Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
Yup, I mean Series X isn't really a console... it's a small form factor PC. Even their approach to games is the same as PC.

PlayStation will be the only real next gen console on the market this Christmas. It's also the only one that is bringing true innovation as opposed to what Xbox is doing, which is just a linear upgrade in the traditional mold.
 
MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
Gone said:
That is not a "state of the art" thread.

" A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller". Seriously? When did you get your hands on both controllers?
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Read my OP again and see where I say that "....led me to believe...."

These are not statements, just educated guesses based on the information that we have.

And yes, according to devs, the controller feels great.
 
O

Onocromin

Banned
Gamernyc78 said:
Bro we see through the schilling 👀new account and you are going hard to prop up Xbox lol

No matter how hard you go Sony will still have the best games, be remembered for their goty contenders and winners like every Gen in your history books and their dope hardware and features. They will still outsell Xbox and still be remembered as the market leader in your history books.
Click to expand...

If Microsoft doesn't intend to deliver graphically - it's their game to lose.

On the other hand, if they continue at this trajectory - Xbox is poised to dominate all facets of gaming after another 2 generations and Sony will fall to the wayside.

"PS7 can only emulate 10% of PS5 games"

meanwhile

"Microsoft finally got all it's shit in gear, and you can stream Xbox 6 games across all platforms at no performance loss"
 
Sosokrates

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Genx3 said:
Who ever thinks that consoles have hit diminishing returns are nuts.

None of these consoles can do Full Path ray Tracing at a 4K resolution.
There is a ton of headroom for growth in the Ray Tracing Performance Dept.
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We do have diminishing returns, while I do like better graphics. When I was watching Steven Spielberg's cgi film "tin tin" i did love all the path tracing, advanced water and physics simulation etc etc, but I was thinking to myself while this is a lot more advanced when it comes to mimicking reality a game like uncharted 4 does not do that much worse, the water in UC4 still looks like pretty convincing water, as do the trees, explosions, character models etc.

So yes your right lighting does have a long way to go in gaming, however its still pretty far from perfect in big CGi movies regardless if its path traced.
Human skin in direct sunlight still does not look real, even if cgi can simulate light accurately the way the light reacts and looks on certain materials like human skin still looks incorrect.
 
Sosokrates

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Read my OP again and see where I say that "....led me to believe...."

These are not statements, just educated guesses based on the information that we have.

And yes, according to devs, the controller feels great.
Click to expand...
aside from switch like rumble, an internal usbc battery and a microphone things like durability will be similarly, X1 pads are very durable.
I like the switch rumble it does add to games, but im sure ms will add it to a new elite controller too. Im pleased ms are choosing to use the BOM on the SoC instead of new controller features.
 
MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
Sosokrates said:
aside from switch like rumble, an internal usbc battery and a microphone things like durability will be similarly, X1 pads are very durable.
I like the switch rumble it does add to games, but im sure ms will add it to a new elite controller too. Im pleased ms are choosing to use the BOM on the SoC instead of new controller features.
Click to expand...
Downplaying the DualSense's haptic feedback as "Switch like rumble" doesn't make your argument/post look good, tbh.

And FYI, the elite controller costs more than $100 and only caters to certain gamers.
 
Brofist

Brofist

Member
Vawn said:
We've long hit a point of diminishing returns when it comes to graphics. Now that we are passing 10TF consoles, the difference will become negligible.

It is time to focus on new things instead of just more powerful graphics. Load times is a huge one. Other things like new input and rumble tech are others. I think Sony is right again. The types of things they are adding on top of the super powerful 10 TF console will make more noticeable difference than adding even more graphic power.

But, as always, the games will be the biggest factor. Fortunately, Sony always dominates in this category.
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You heard it here boys, pack em in graphics have hit the peak and no where to go from here.

Like this same comment verbatim hasn't been said before the launch of each new console since the PS2 probably.
 
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Vawn

Vawn

Banned
Brofist said:
You heard it here boys, pack em in graphics have hit the peak and no where to go from here.

Like this same comment verbatim hasn't been said before the launch of each new console since the PS2 probably.
Click to expand...

And going from PS360 to PS4/XBO was the most underwhelming "leap" we've had since I started gaming on Atari.

This one, from a graphics standpoint, will be even less exciting. There's only so much better visuals can get.
 
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