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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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Roronoa Zoro said:
It's easier to mislead people by oversimplifying and focusing on certain areas you're better at like bigger TF than it is by explaining the tech. One is informative the other is spin. Cerny lets people make their own conclusions but he doesn't mislead
Click to expand...

I dont know about that if people dont understand most of the stuff and if cerny sounds like he knows what hes talking about (he does) then people will believe him.
For example the clockrate stuff is not very clear its said in way by cerny that some may think PS5s GPU is better then xsx because it has a higher clockspeed.
 
LordOfChaos

LordOfChaos

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D

DaMonsta

Member
JerryinSoCal said:
I wouldn't say either one is just a "salesman" but Phil's position at MS is much different than Cerny's at Sony, I don't think Phil actually had any actual input into the design of the Series X because his that's not his job, he's busy running everything and he has a team of people that do that work for him. Cerny is hands on with the design of the architecture for PlayStation consoles because that is part of his job, he's not the head of the entire PlayStation division. I'm sure Spencer sets the goals for what he's like the machine to be able to do but there is just no way someone in his position with all he has to do and who's been away from the software developer side of things for that long is actually working on the console directly.
Click to expand...
Obviously they hold very different positions at their perspective companies but where their rolls converge is being kinda the spokesperson for their platform.

Phil’s input on the hardware was from a financial and strategic standpoint. Cernys input on the hardware is getting the best out of it given the financial and strategic guidelines passed down to him.

When either of them get in front of a camera it’s to be a “salesman”
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bonsaibäumchen said:
Actually a few weeks ago I thought about something in this regard. See we have to pay Subscriptions anyways to use the online services.

Now if you think about consoles and how they have limited ressources for an extensive perios of time you might consider to upgrade that hardware more often without changing the arcitecture too much.

So I was thinking a console-gen has a lifespan of 5-8 years. Lets say they sell for 500€£$ that would be 5 years in the worst case. 500/5/12 makes about 8,33€£$ a Month.

So I thought what if the console company would say well here we have our top tier Subscription, it costs 10-15€£$ more then the normal one _but_ you get a game more each month AND if you keep that subscription for 5 years straight, you'll get our next-gen / upgraded version shipped for free. ( or exchange your current one with an upgraded one )

At least _I_would really like that idea.
Click to expand...

We've used that Sony PS4 history thing, I came up spending around $5000 on PS4, another friend $4000, another guy around $20,000 (he's a freak, a platinum whore) and the average between us you would say mostly $4-5K per person. That could be much less indeed as they count only full price on release not when bought on sale. But I was more than sure I've spent around $3,900 on PS3 games, was a student, and I'm not a rich person at all, mid-class. That's actually not much if you compare it to car mods and so, there are way more expensive things people spend money on like cellphones and shitty free-to-play-but-pay-to-win games.

So now, how that GP is making any money? PS Now is a more balanced system, I guess.
 
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G

Goncas2

Member
Shmunter said:
I’d like to see more on that
Click to expand...
Checkerboard rendering, for example, is just fancy interpolation. One frame renders half the pixels, the next frame renders the other half, and then an algorithm combines them together, while effectively doubling the framerate.
Even DLSS uses a similar approach, though a much smarter and flexible one, since it can upscale from much lower resolutions, and use information from multiple previous frames.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
sircaw said:
I loved it, however the skill trees were not as good as i had hoped, also some of the human settlements were abit lacklustre, especially the fighting.

I would of preferred a quest line where you had to gather personal parts from different dinosaurs for the purpose of designing , creating your own mount., You could choose different components, to specialise your mount, choosing a would make it run faster, option b jump further/higher/ option c aide you more in battle etc

I also wished they had more varieties of robots to do with insects, imagine a nest full of silver army ants or mechanical spiders or a nest of wasps at the top of giant tree, you need an item next to the nest and have to fight those wasps jumping from branch to branch.

So many fantastic things they will be able to do, i so look forward to the second game,
Click to expand...

This is one of the best posts I've ever read around here. Man, you SERIOUSLY need to send that to GG!

Wow, just imagine choosing like the legs of machine A, and maybe the feet from another for better grip and for machine fighting but with a penalty for speed, a gun from another, and so on. You would come up with insanely unique builds, put above all of that decoration like in Destiny and other games.

This could be a big thing for an online more as well. Wonderful post.
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Sosokrates said:
I dont know about that if people dont understand most of the stuff and if cerny sounds like he knows what hes talking about (he does) then people will believe him.
For example the clockrate stuff is not very clear its said in way by cerny that some may think PS5s GPU is better then xsx because it has a higher clockspeed.
Click to expand...
In his defence, I think it is as clear, as he can make it – for something he begins in describing as counter-intuitive. The clockrate on the PS5 is only achieved by them building in custom circuitry that alters the clock-rate a tiny bit, but inversely proportional to workload, changing just as the workload happens – which is completely ground breaking (IMHO)

(IIRC)To make the variable clock setup viable they said they had to design the GPU with a more regular density of transistors for heat dissipation . So it isn’t like a new cooler on the XsX would allow them to match the PS5 clockrate, power efficiency and fan noise at the same time.

The paradigm shift that PlayStation has incorporated into its APU design suggests to me, they choose the fast and narrow solution – with the wider option left on the table – and had they gone the other way on width, would have still incorporated the variable clock paradigm shift into that, also.

So, if it isn’t logical to conclude that the PS5 has the better APU, then why hasn’t the XsX got the same paradigm shifting variable clock solution - to go faster with better thermals and fixed power use?
 
The Mad Draklor

The Mad Draklor

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Sosokrates said:
For example the clockrate stuff is not very clear its said in way by cerny that some may think PS5s GPU is better then xsx because it has a higher clockspeed.
Click to expand...
Cerny literally said that higher clockspeeds also speeds up rasterization and GPU cache bandwidth, but also moves the GPU farther away from the RAM (in terms of cycles). "Not clear" is only accurate if the person is inattentive.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
PaintTinJr said:
In his defence, I think it is as clear, as he can make it – for something he begins in describing as counter-intuitive. The clockrate on the PS5 is only achieved by them building in custom circuitry that alters the clock-rate a tiny bit, but inversely proportional to workload, changing just as the workload happens – which is completely ground breaking (IMHO)

(IIRC)To make the variable clock setup viable they said they had to design the GPU with a more regular density of transistors for heat dissipation . So it isn’t like a new cooler on the XsX would allow them to match the PS5 clockrate, power efficiency and fan noise at the same time.

The paradigm shift that PlayStation has incorporated into its APU design suggests to me, they choose the fast and narrow solution – with the wider option left on the table – and had they gone the other way on width, would have still incorporated the variable clock paradigm shift into that, also.

So, if it isn’t logical to conclude that the PS5 has the better APU, then why hasn’t the XsX got the same paradigm shifting variable clock solution - to go faster with better thermals and fixed power use?
Click to expand...


What a really interesting theory. If true it probably means that the high clocks of the PS5s GPU wasn't a desperate last ditch effort but one that was planned a while ago.

I am really curious to see Sonys cooling solution because it sounds like it has to be exotic to handle the thermals that the PS5 will have.

Even after Cernys presentation there's still alot that we don't know about the hardware. I'm excited to see it finally revealed.
 
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schaft0620

schaft0620

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:
www.thegamepost.com

Speculation: Sony To Drop More PlayStation 5 News In May 2020

PlayStation 5 is still a bit of a mystery even after the DualSense controller reveal. Well, it looks like we might be getting more details soon.
www.thegamepost.com www.thegamepost.com

Any PS5 news are welcome at this point. Hopefully we shall see the form factor soon.
Click to expand...

We are going to get the hardware teardown Cerny spoke about this month IMO and then we are going to get a games thing like a State of Play in May. This allows the 3rd party people to talk about their games in June as planed.
 
Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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The Mad Draklor said:
Cerny literally said that higher clockspeeds also speeds up rasterization and GPU cache bandwidth, but also moves the GPU farther away from the RAM (in terms of cycles). "Not clear" is only accurate if the person is inattentive.
Click to expand...

Yeah he made it sound like narrower and faster is better then wider and slower.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Sosokrates said:
Digital foundry have shown, higher clockspeeds dont increase performance, maybe first party could do something.
Click to expand...

It doesn't?

Then why did I see people manipulate the clock speeds to achieve different TF counts?

What I did read about is that increasing clockspeeds does increase performance. However once it's past the sweet spot an increase in clock speeds doesn't increase the performance as much. As a consequence of increasing the clocks you get a higher production of heat. That's why gamers who overclock their PC components to really high levels have to use extremely good heat sinks and in many cases liquid cooling.
 
Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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MasterCornholio said:
It doesn't?

Then why did I see people manipulate the clock speeds to achieve different TF counts?

What I did read about is that increasing clockspeeds does increase performance. However once it's past the sweet spot an increase in clock speeds doesn't increase the performance as much. As a consequence of increasing the clocks you get a higher production of heat. That's why gamers who overclock their PC components to really high levels have to use extremely good heat sinks and in many cases liquid cooling.
Click to expand...

Yes if the tflops are increased the performance increases, but if the tflops are the same the performance is the same.
 
The Mad Draklor

The Mad Draklor

Member
Sosokrates said:
I think your the one being inattentive, I said what average joe will think, not what I think.
Click to expand...
That was what was stated during the GDC talk. Cerny gave an example of two 4.6 TF cards with one with less CU's & higher clockspeeds and the other with more CU's & lower clockspeeds.

"No u" only works if you can actually show where I'm wrong.
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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The Mad Draklor said:
That was what was stated during the GDC talk. Cerny gave an example of two 4.6 TF cards with one with less CU's & higher clockspeeds and the other with more CU's & lower clockspeeds.

"No u" only works if you can actually show where I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Your wrong when saying you think what I said was referring to my own knowledge. I was referring to what casuals might think.
 
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The Mad Draklor

The Mad Draklor

Member
Sosokrates said:
Your wrong when saying you think what I said was referring to my own knowledge. I was referring what casuals might think.
Click to expand...


Your original claim:
Sosokrates said:
For example the clockrate stuff is not very clear its said in way by cerny that some may think PS5s GPU is better then xsx because it has a higher clockspeed.
Click to expand...
Apparently, using two 4.6 TF GPU's as examples was "not very clear" and casuals "might" think the PS5's GPU is better than the XSX's GPU, even though their theoretical peaks are different and therefore, not comparable to Cerny's example of 2 cards with identical theoretical peaks.

As a result, your conjecture is without merit as your conjecture is based on obfuscation. Example:

Sosokrates said:
Yeah he made it sound like narrower and faster is better then wider and slower. (while ignoring that Cerny compared two GPU's of identical teraflops)
Click to expand...
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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MasterCornholio said:
So why did you say that increasing clock speeds doesn't increase performance if it leads to an increase in the Teraflops count?
Click to expand...

MasterCornholio said:
So why did you say that increasing clock speeds doesn't increase performance if it leads to an increase in the Teraflops count?
Click to expand...

Because thats not what cerny said, cerny said performance increases even if tflops are the same.
 
PocoJoe

PocoJoe

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Sosokrates said:
Digital foundry have shown, higher clockspeeds dont increase performance, maybe first party could do something.
Click to expand...

Is Digital foundry all knowing and always right? If not, then this is not good enough evidence.

Like if they did this:

had two PC setups:

setup 1) 10tflops with 1.5Ghz gpu
setup 2) 10flops with 2.0GHz gpu

(numbers from my hat)

and otherwise identical setups, and if/when they didnt see differences then only thing that this experiment reveals is:

On these PC setups it didn't matter in PC games

IMO it is kind of arrogant from their behalf to claim (if they did) that they prove "higher clocks wont give better perf on same tflops on console"

Console is closed system with custom GPU with custom optimizations, so it may or may not be true. But they prove nothing about PS5 with this test, unless they have 2 different PS5s.

And of course performance is dependent of what the GPU is doing. I'm sure that higher clocks vs wider approaches both have things that they show their true power and on some cases being faster or wider wont do much

Also kind of arrogant from them to think they know more about PS5 than Cerny/Sony.. I have lost interest in them as they seem more like "group that got famous and now are doing things that they arent smart/skilled enough" than real professionals that dont do false assumptions
 
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Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

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scie said:
This decline is already happening in other markets like music for instance. Everybody is on the 5-10€/month Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music subscription with 320kbit/s MP3 sound. If you want better quality you can pay more for Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon Music HD, but guess what only a small portion is doing that, because the consumers want to consume the masses and not enjoy some good quality music.
Netflix is the same, I know nobody who is not sharing his Netflix account with 3 other people to cut the subscription fee. So instead of paying 16€/month for 4K, they´ll pay 4€/month each and if you want to really cheap out. You use a VPN and subscripe to Netflix in a much cheaper country. Than you are at like 1,30€/month. Also same for Disney+ account sharing is pretty normal at least within all of my friends.

And that is the problem, people want everything for less money and that sucks!
Click to expand...
That's a result of 'good enough' plus convenience. It happened to movies and music with streaming services, and I'm afraid we're heading to the same situation on games. Casuals dominate, high quality is niche.
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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The Mad Draklor said:


Your original claim:

Apparently, using two 4.6 TF GPU's as examples was "not very clear" and casuals "might" think the PS5's GPU is better than the XSX's GPU, even though their theoretical peaks are different and therefore, not comparable to Cerny's example of 2 cards with identical theoretical peaks.

As a result, your conjecture is without merit as your conjecture is based on obfuscation. Example:
Click to expand...


14 million people watched the video, if people on hardcore game forums were arguing about it, im sure other gamers found it confusing to.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

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More into it:




It's suggesting that the company that Sony was trying to strike a deal with to implement software-based ray-tracing for current PS4 games might be Crytek. This could represent the HDR implementation/emulation on SDR, non-HDR games. Pretty interesting stuff, and could as well help to minimize the ray tracing penalty in future next gen gaming to have a hybrid solution.

www.neogaf.com

PS4 Will Receive Software-Based Ray-Tracing for Crysis Remake

More into it: It's suggesting that the company that Sony was trying to strike a deal with to implement software-based ray-tracing for current PS4 games might be Crytek. This could represent something like the HDR implementation/emulation on SDR, non-HDR games. Pretty interesting stuff, and...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
Sosokrates said:
14 million people watched the video, if people on hardcore game forums were arguing about it, im sure other gamers found it confusing to.
Click to expand...
I mean no offence to those who visit game forums but we don't know any more than regular folks who don't visit game forums. We know just enough to argue about it on a superficial level but if someone poses a deeper question then it is crickets. Lol

I'll say only about 10% have a surface level understanding and then less than 1% have a deeper understanding and those are people who work in related fields. I mean look at the conversation that's been going on in this thread. Lmao
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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PocoJoe said:
Is Digital foundry all knowing and always right? If not, then this is not good enough evidence.

Like if they did this:

had two PC setups:

setup 1) 10tflops with 1.5Ghz gpu
setup 2) 10flops with 2.0GHz gpu

(numbers from my hat)

and otherwise identical setups, and if/when they didnt see differences then only thing that this experiment reveals is:

On these PC setups it didn't matter in PC games

IMO it is kind of arrogant from their behalf to claim (if they did) that they prove "higher clocks wont give better perf on same tflops on console"

Console is closed system with custom GPU with custom optimizations, so it may or may not be true. But they prove nothing about PS5 with this test, unless they have 2 different PS5s.

And of course performance is dependent of what the GPU is doing. I'm sure that higher clocks vs wider approaches both have things that they show their true power and on some cases being faster or wider wont do much

Also kind of arrogant from them to think they know more about PS5 than Cerny/Sony.. I have lost interest in them as they seem more like "group that got famous and now are doing things that they arent smart/skilled enough" than real professionals that dont do false assumptions
Click to expand...

Im just rewatching the video now and they did say that more testing is needed.
But if i was to make a bet , I dont think the PS5s GPU will perform within 5% of a 10tflop pc rdna2 gpu.
 
3liteDragon

3liteDragon

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Someone today just leaked 40 mins worth of gameplay from TLOU2 today, and apparently it SPOILS THE ENTIRE GAME. WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK.
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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xHunter said:
Just so you know, this guy was trying to argue that the PS5 GPU actually has 35 GPU since one is dedicated for the audio. Wouldnt even bother to take him serious since he is obviously trolling:
Click to expand...

xHunter said:
Just so you know, this guy was trying to argue that the PS5 GPU actually has 35 GPU since one is dedicated for the audio. Wouldnt even bother to take him serious since he is obviously trolling:
Click to expand...


You're the one trolling.

It still has not been confirmed what the layout of the SoC.

And i wonder why the tempest engine compute unit runs @ the same clockspeed as the gpu🤔.
It would not make much sense for the tempest engine be clocked @ the same speed as the gpu if its a seperate chip lol.

a0211f1340898826.jpg


If im right all those doubting me will have plenty of crow to eat 😆

Also that quote of me was a joke, cant believe you went in my history and actually thought you had a good "gotcha" moment, its a joke lol, lighten up 😎

What do you think CatLady CatLady thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best ?
 
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xHunter

xHunter

Member
Didnt have to go through your post history since someone else posted that one in the other thread, which you should know, since you replied to it.

So i guess the 35 CU thing is the new hot take in the discord group?

Edit: If we go by your theory, wouldn that also mean, that the XSX doesnt have 52 CU and by thus isnt actually a 12 TF machine? Or do these things only work for Sony?
 
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Sosokrates

Sosokrates

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xHunter said:
Didnt have to go through your post history since someone else posted that one in the other thread, which you should know, since you replied to it.

So i guess the 35 CU thing is the new hot take in the discord group?
Click to expand...

How am I going to know you saw somone else quote it.

Your posts and others are the hot takes. You dont even have an argument you just come in here drive by trolling.
 
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