I don´t want to go the PC masterrace route, but I do hope that the new consoles have a decent ray tracing capability. A new GPU generation for PCs with NVidias RTX3000 series and AMD Big Navi is imminent and will support ray tracing. The new consoles need to keep up in the ray tracing performance, but also I´ll see a mid gen refresh of the new consoles. Consoles have to evolve faster than the standard 6-7 year life cycle. Look at mobile chips they get so powerful with every new generation that you can get almost the power of an Xbox One or PS4 into a fucking tablet. Or the rumors of AMD Renoir, that it will be as capable as PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, but you can put this thing into a cheap laptop
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I don´t want to go the PC masterrace route, but I do hope that the new consoles have a decent ray tracing capability. A new GPU generation for PCs with NVidias RTX3000 series and AMD Big Navi is imminent and will support ray tracing. The new consoles need to keep up in the ray tracing performance, but also I´ll see a mid gen refresh of the new consoles. Consoles have to evolve faster than the standard 6-7 year life cycle. Look at mobile chips they get so powerful with every new generation that you can get almost the power of an Xbox One or PS4 into a fucking tablet. Or the rumors of AMD Renoir, that it will be as capable as PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, but you can put this thing into a cheap laptop
Agnostic2020
Member
So here is the cooling patent.
Board will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool . Abit over kill but that means ps5 will be quiet.
Board will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool . Abit over kill but that means ps5 will be quiet.
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Xbox Series X: What do game developers say about next-gen? We asked several for their thoughts.
The Xbox Series X is upon us. But what do game developers think of this next-gen beast? We spoke to several to find out their thoughts.
www.windowscentral.com
They all are excited for the SSD and I/O capabilities. Seems Mark Cerny made good moves focusing on SSD.
Nobody ever said, that SSD and streamlined I/O is not important and that it isn't reason to be excited about next-gen consolesXbox Series X: What do game developers say about next-gen? We asked several for their thoughts.
The Xbox Series X is upon us. But what do game developers think of this next-gen beast? We spoke to several to find out their thoughts.
They all are excited for the SSD and I/O capabilities. Seems Mark Cerny made good moves focusing on SSD.
That's why XsX has SSD and that whole Xbox Velocity Architecture.Only thing, that worries me if Sony didn't focus on SSD too much. I mean, 3rd party devs need to focus on all platforms and they just can't create a game that will only works on PS5's high speed SSD. That game in terms of game design need to work on Xbox's 2,4GB/s SSD which is also crazy fast in comparison to current gen, but i think you know where i'm heading.
It's legit concern, that only way that SSD will be utilised in more ways then just "making stuff load little bit faster" is 1st party devs. And since 1st party is probably 5% of all gaming output, then Sony could end up with insanely fast and insanely expensive SSD which won't be utilised in majority of cases.
Radical_3d
Member
The SoC itself will have the holes? Wouldn't a small dilatation or contraction of the pipes uttery destroy the chip? I guess they are usen a very special material.So here is the cooling patent.
APU will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool .
Whats number 9:
Nickolaidas
Member
SECRET SAUCE
geordiemp
Member
So here is the cooling patent.
APU will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool . Abit over kill but that means ps5 will be quiet.
Whats number 9:
This arrangement allows for stacking of dies (5s), maybe a version of it allows for cooling on both top and bottom of the APU ?
The holes are in the board not the APU...which allows heat sink on the back of the board rather than on top...or maybe sony can do both and cool both sides....da da dah - that would be cool.
I doubt they will have die stacks, but you never know.
What we do know is that at 2.23 GHz GPU and teh confidence in their proud cooling solution the cooling is obviously effective and must be cost effective as otehrwise its not good engineering.
Good engineering is about performance at a cost.
LOL dont be ken crazy, holes are in the PCB board to access the back of the APU.
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Agnostic2020
Member
My mistake sorry I meant the board not apu. Will fix it
I think many have misunderstood a certain aspect, this thing with SSD.
If a 3rd party studio can't make the most of the PS5 SSD, why would it make the most of the XSX SSD when 90% of users still have HDDs on their PCs. Finish with this nonsense, each platform will be used to the fullest, it's about optimization on two fixed platforms, it's not like you have to optimize 100 configurations.
It will be a great generation, please, enjoy! And stop with this nonsens (RDNA1, SSD, Memory....).
If a 3rd party studio can't make the most of the PS5 SSD, why would it make the most of the XSX SSD when 90% of users still have HDDs on their PCs. Finish with this nonsense, each platform will be used to the fullest, it's about optimization on two fixed platforms, it's not like you have to optimize 100 configurations.
It will be a great generation, please, enjoy! And stop with this nonsens (RDNA1, SSD, Memory....).
Radical_3d
Member
That's what I thought but seemed like Agnostic2020 understand it through the SoC. And I'm always team Krazy Ken.
Agnostic2020
Member
Here is what it is said :
A heatsink (21) is disposed on a lower surface of a circuit board (10). The circuit board (10) has through holes (h1) that penetrate the circuit board (10) in an area (A) where an integrated circuit apparatus (5) is disposed. Heat conduction paths (11) are provided in the through holes (h1). The heat conduction paths (11) connect the integrated circuit apparatus 5 and the heatsink (21). This structure allows for disposition of a component different from the heatsink (21) on the same side as the integrated circuit apparatus (5), thus ensuring a higher degree of freedom in a component layout.
The board has holes for conductive pipes to go through it . Board connects to apu
xacto
Member
So here is the cooling patent.
Board will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool . Abit over kill but that means ps5 will be quiet.
Whats number 9:
"According to this structure of the electronic device 1, as shown in FIG. 1, a space for the heat dissipation device is not required above the integrated circuit device 5, so that the other parts 9 (for example, an antenna, etc.) included in the electronic device 1 are not required. The transmission / reception module, the sensor, the external storage device, and the like that the user has can be arranged above the integrated circuit device 5, and the degree of freedom in the layout of the component 9 can be increased. In the example of the electronic device 1, the component 9 is arranged on the side opposite to the heat sink 21 with the circuit board 10 and the integrated circuit device 5 interposed therebetween. That is, the component 9 is arranged near the upper side of the integrated circuit device 5. Specifically, the distance L1 between the component 9 and the integrated circuit device 5 is smaller than the height H1 of the heat sink 21. Unlike the example of the electronic device 1, another heat dissipation device may be arranged on the upper surface of the integrated circuit device 5. By doing so, two heat dissipation devices are provided in the integrated circuit device 5, so that the cooling performance can be improved."
Text taken from the patent explanation, Google-translated from Japanese.
I suggest this was aimed at me.
Well, in PC space it's easy. You can cut mechanical HDD through HW requirements. And voila. If the game could not work with traditional HDD you just let your audience know.
To be clear, i will give you example. Some studio will create a game where you can ride a fighter jet and where SSD needs to provide textures and all other game data in high quality. If there will be situation that this game would require all of SSD bandwidth that PS5 SSD will provide and the game would literally not work on slower XsX SSD, this is a situation where higher speed created something that cannot be done on other hardware. Of course, we are talking in theory and nobody, other then 1st party, will create a game that would not properly work on other hardware.
It's like if PS5 came up with 8-core Zen 2 and Microsoft for some reason would put 16-core/4GHz Zen 2 in XsX. Do you think, that XsX CPU would be utilised to to fullest of it's capabilities? (Nope)
Yes, PS5 SSD will be utilised, but I was talking about utilisation outside of "faster loading times." About stuff that's influencing game design.
Yes. It will be great generation and i'm excited, that we will finally get rid of mechanical drives. But i really don't know what you are talking about with RDNA 1 and memory stuff, so please explain.
Agnostic2020
Member
Tom warren on next gen:
You just know the MS PR are saying these cause lockhart is gonna be revealed soon
You just know the MS PR are saying these cause lockhart is gonna be revealed soon
It was about the people who trolling about the specs that are inside the PS5.I suggest this was aimed at me.
Well, in PC space it's easy. You can cut mechanical HDD through HW requirements. And voila. If the game could not work with traditional HDD you just let your audience know.
To be clear, i will give you example. Some studio will create a game where you can ride a fighter jet and where SSD needs to provide textures and all other game data in high quality. If there will be situation that this game would require all of SSD bandwidth that PS5 SSD will provide and the game would literally not work on slower XsX SSD, this is a situation where higher speed created something that cannot be done on other hardware. Of course, we are talking in theory and nobody, other then 1st party, will create a game that would not properly work on other hardware.
It's like if PS5 came up with 8-core Zen 2 and Microsoft for some reason would put 16-core/4GHz Zen 2 in XsX. Do you think, that XsX CPU would be utilised to to fullest of it's capabilities? (Nope)
Yes, PS5 SSD will be utilised, but I was talking about utilisation outside of "faster loading times." About stuff that's influencing game design.
Yes. It will be great generation and i'm excited, that we will finally get rid of mechanical drives. But i really don't know what you are talking about with RDNA 1 and memory stuff, so please explain.
Well. I'm not one of them.
B_Boss
Member
Are you serious with those words of yours lol? Clearly the Chief Architect of the PS5 knows very well how to effectively cool the console, imperfect as humans are. He even spoke about how he and the engineering team worked out how to do it and their solution significantly improved over the PS4’s cooling solution. I’m finding many of us really need to take quite a few looks at the GDC video, myself included lol.
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Evilms
Banned
Sony's Heatsink Patent for the PS5 is Public Now.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Tom warren on next gen:
You just know the MS PR are saying these cause lockhart is gonna be revealed soon
If CPU and SSD are key to next gen then Sony has already won. CPU are virtually identical and Sony's SSD is up to 4 times faster than XSX SSD.
geordiemp
Member
And thats the secret sauce, cooling from both sides of APU would conduct much more heat away from the APU as you have double the conduction contact area on the APU.
Crazy ken time.....love it.
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You reading it wrong. Warren implied that switch from laptop Jaguar CPU to Zen 2 CPU and switch from mechanical HDD to SSD are keys to next-gen consoles. He didn't compared CPU and SSD of XsX and PS5
3liteDragon
Member
If we’re following this 3-week pattern:
Wednesday, March 18th, PS5 specs reveal
Tuesday, April 7th, DualSense controller reveal
If we’re expecting a console design reveal/teardown 3 weeks after Tuesday April 7th, that would be Tuesday, April 28th which is next Tuesday. And now that the cooling solution patent is public, it might be the best time for Sony to reveal this beast.
Wednesday, March 18th, PS5 specs reveal
Tuesday, April 7th, DualSense controller reveal
If we’re expecting a console design reveal/teardown 3 weeks after Tuesday April 7th, that would be Tuesday, April 28th which is next Tuesday. And now that the cooling solution patent is public, it might be the best time for Sony to reveal this beast.
3liteDragon
Member
I’m also now starting to think we’ll get the story trailer for TLOU2 with a new release date during the PS5 blowout reveal.
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Nickolaidas
Member
Well, the chief architect did a shitty job with cooling the pro, otherwise half the units wouldn't sound like fucking vacuum cleaners whenever playing a graphically demanding game. So excuse me if I'm a little cautious.
Here's hoping he has learned from his mistakes.
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geordiemp
Member
The first round of pros were fixed with the second iteration, yes i have the first iteration and its a vacuum cleaner.
Good engineers solve these things in good ways, they have a patent where the apu can in theory conduct heat away from the top and bottom surfaces effectively doubling the heat conduction away from the chip (my broad understanding of the patent potential).
So Sony looks like they made a smaller cost effective die, addressed bottlenecks and had a strategy all along to go super fast and narrow with patented cooling, lets see what cache and other things Sony ahve done to speed up the logic and flow.
You got to appreciate it if you like engineering, which I do. Cant wait to see how this is is put together, it will blow minds.
Imagine PC parts using this technology, AMD big GPUs going for 2.5 Ghz and more, crazy times (if Sony license the technology of course)
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Aceofspades
Banned
Tom warren on next gen:
You just know the MS PR are saying these cause lockhart is gonna be revealed soon
So, even MS thinks that Sony was right by focusing on SSD
Handy Fake
Member
And thats the secret sauce, cooling from both sides of APU would conduct much more heat away from the APU as you have double the conduction contact area on the APU.
Crazy ken time.....love it.
Secret Sandwich.
FranXico
Member
You really think that there is no IO architecture at all on the PS5? That they just threw in a superfast SSD and called it a day?Is there any truth to Xbox series X having Velocity Engine architecture means they don't need a superfast SSD.
having a low cost SSD will keep the price down and the architecture makes up for it
Edit: just to be clear, I know you didn't say this, but it is inferred from your post.
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Nickolaidas
Member
MS: Power is everything and we are king!
(Lockheart reveal)
MS: Terraflops do not matter!
(Lockheart reveal)
MS: Terraflops do not matter!
SirTerry-T
Member
The real superstar in those pics is that Japanese guy with the mole leaning over the partition in that top pic.
B_Boss
Member
I believe the GDC video explains to an extent how much they’ve learned since the PS4/Pro and how to efficiently cool the PS5. I also believe there is a basis for believing that they’ve learned from their “mistakes“ (I do not know the documented history of the PS4/Pro’s cooling issues (whether there were mistakes, etc).
Oh and uhh...you’re excused
?
Nickolaidas
Member
Is that Cerny in both pics? Man, he had this "I'm gonna do great shit in the future" gaze all along, didn't he?
Nickolaidas
Member
I thought about that too! I mean, the fact that the heatsink went public could mean that an announcement is coming up!
Barakov
Member
For those are that tech savvy, is this good?Sony's Heatsink Patent for the PS5 is Public Now.
I'll take it.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Do you own a 1st gen PS4 Pro? This is a well known issue with the console.
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Agnostic2020
Member
Yea it is . Cooling system all around and pipes through the system .
Nickolaidas
Member
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Barakov
Member
FranXico
Member
There even was a slide illustrating the sonic shock waves emanating from the PS4 Pro.
Joking (but just a bit).
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megreotsugua
Banned
Shmunter
Member
Explains why Chill Spencer was feeling good about his decision. Good, but not GreatSo, even MS thinks that Sony was right by focusing on SSD
Lol, I kid, I kid.
PaintTinJr
Member
Licensing patented technology at a reasonable market rate is now a requirement in EU and US (IIRC) after reading about high profile mobile patent lawsuits on groklaw.net some years back. The whole patent system by design was to ensure technology sharing.
It will be interesting to see how the PS5 technology paradigm shifts impact mainstream computing. The Sony laptop business that Sony sold off to a Japanese PC company around 2015 are still a going concern as seen by Cerny having a VAIO laptop at GDC – AFAIK the VAIO name and designs are licensed out by Sony in the same way IBM do with Thinkpad to Lenovo.
I suspect the PC market might be forced into licensing the technologies if Apple take the various innovations for their iMac, etc products. If VAIO and Thinkpad license the tech for Linux based laptops that can exploit the IO improvements straight away -like Apple would, then I could see the entire WinTel PC market shifting minimum requirements and a new version of Windows launching to keep pace with these IO and fix power/variable clock changes - and everyone from Sony, Microsoft, AMD, Intel and Nvidia would be winners as every replaced every PC device in the next decade.
Nivek OnlyOn
Member
So that io die may really be boosted that much and treated as another chip. Its a monster!
Nivek OnlyOn
Member
D
SSD and Audio ray tracing was all i heard hahaha. It was shocking , i though it was the April2019 wired article lolXbox Series X: What do game developers say about next-gen? We asked several for their thoughts.
The Xbox Series X is upon us. But what do game developers think of this next-gen beast? We spoke to several to find out their thoughts.
They all are excited for the SSD and I/O capabilities. Seems Mark Cerny made good moves focusing on SSD.
Agnostic2020
Member
Nivek OnlyOn
Member
3rd parties will actually use PC or lockhart SSD a lowest denominator. Maybe draw a line at 500MBs. And on XsX/PS5 use extra speed for textures.Nobody ever said, that SSD and streamlined I/O is not important and that it isn't reason to be excited about next-gen consoles
Only thing, that worries me if Sony didn't focus on SSD too much. I mean, 3rd party devs need to focus on all platforms and they just can't create a game that will only works on PS5's high speed SSD. That game in terms of game design need to work on Xbox's 2,4GB/s SSD which is also crazy fast in comparison to current gen, but i think you know where i'm heading.
It's legit concern, that only way that SSD will be utilised in more ways then just "making stuff load little bit faster" is 1st party devs. And since 1st party is probably 5% of all gaming output, then Sony could end up with insanely fast and insanely expensive SSD which won't be utilised in majority of cases.
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