The point of the kiss was to show a tender, vulnerable side to Ellie which could then be immediately contrasted with the feral murderous version we see taking out the cultists. Which in turn begs the question, what could drive this character to these extremes?
Find out, when you play TLOU2.
Its not exactly complicated, and it works irrespective of the type of relationship in question as its not advertising a romance so much as a story of violent revenge.
That anyone would take it any other way is, sorry to say this, suspect. The sheer amount of emphasis on the significance of it being a lesbian kiss demonstrates prejudice because there's nothing inherently wrong or even shocking about it. It could be a result of homophobia, or an overreaction to what could be construed as an opportunitic and tokenistic political signal. Its a response borne of prejudice either way.
Examine your feelings on the matter. Did Ellie's sexuality come out of nowhere, are teen lesbians really such a big deal, and why aren't you seeing it in its proper context within the trailer/pitch. Its like talking about the bread not the filling in the sandwich
I think Druckman is responsible for some of my favorite games ever made, so I support his activity as a creator. I think Anita is awful, she's a bad spokesperson for her cause in the same sense Al Gore was a bad spokesperson for global warming. Sex negative feminists are pretty much in general bad spokes people but she goes beyond that into full hypocrisy territory nevermind making it impossible to hit her sweet spot for a female character, out of one corner of her mouth she wants female chars to not simply be men with a gender swap, out of the other she wants all feminine characteristics downplayed due to their stereotypical nature. She also isn't a true gamer as we've exposed before, uses bullshit examples sans the context that matters and hasn't even fulfilled all her goals despite raking in the money. She's a scam artist and full of shit.
Druckman let her turn grown-up Ellie into looking more like Norman Reedus than Ellen Paige... that's stupid but not enough to make me dismiss the game. He made another character ridiculously big, especially for the setting... it's silly but not enough to make me dismiss the game. Anita has done plenty to make me dismiss her entirely and in Druckman's speech about her he admits there are problems with how she presents her message, he just feels the core idea (females could use better representation) is true. Basically he doesn't mind if the messenger is flawed if he agrees with the message. I think it's a shame his idea of better female representation means ignoring what makes a female... a female... but so long as it isn't the focus of the game and is instead just a small part of the overall experience I'm really not worried about it. Personally I'd argue I value females more than either of them, because to be a true feminist, I'd argue, is to value a woman's strength at the same level you do a man's, not you think women can do everything men can just as well. Equality doesn't mean we all are able to do the same things, it means we value each other's strengths to the same amount. I've never cared for people who attack the "male gaze" or sexualization of females, especially considering the absolute hypocrisy of it when the male action hero has changed so drastically since the '80s to suit the female gaze. Ask any woman if they'd rather sleep with the action hero of today or the one from the '80s and you know the answer. Conversely ask a man if he'd rather sleep with the females of that time's movies or now and you'd also get an unsurprising answer (with big caveats like ScarJo or MEW), the Hollywood of today wants women who look weird, not traditional beauty but a "look" while the men largely look the way women want them to. Things weren't equal in the '80s and now they're lopsided in the other direction.
The weird thing is how often they claim they need female protagonists because that's half their audience... it factually isn't. Just look at action movies, when they make an action movie for females it always does worse, why? Because females only see films like that on dates with their boyfriends mostly, but the goal of third wave feminism is to ignore biological realities. Some of the only female-lead action flicks that do well feature attractive females that men want to see even if some think it's silly watching them knock guys 3 times their size around. Even in the realm of comedies people don't recognize women want different types of humor than men, women loved Bridesmaids because it was true to the female experience, no one loved female Ghostbusters because they hijacked a franchise and ruined it by turning it into boring ad-libbed SNL sketches. Them being female was just a gimmick and added zero to the film, they were telling juvenile Seth Rogen level jokes the whole film (for the record when Ghostbusters 3 was originally going to be with people like Rogen and Jonah Hill I said 'fuck that, I don't want a Ghostbusters movie full of weed and sex jokes').
It's all kinda funny, too because we've all argued for a long time that you don't need to play as your sexuality/race/gender in a game to relate to the characters, yet people are freaking out you don't get to play as Joel in TLOU II. It feels mildly hypocritical but it could be a time to admit that a lot of people DO want to play as their sexuality/race/gender in games. I'll always support creative freedom but if things are done for business decisions the best business decisions are to note spite the majority of your audience. I don't think Druckman necessarily is doing that. In TLOU people fell in love with Ellie and Joel, and they're back! Their stories are continued and if you could fall in love with them once maybe you can fall in love with them 10 years later in the game's story line? Judging if he did a good job on leaks ND didn't intend for you to see is kinda unfair. Just imagine if going into playing TLOU you knew the entire time that
Ellie wouldn't actually provide a cure to save humanity, that Joel would stop it.
Would you judge the game fairly if you went in knowing this ahead of time?
Anyways, I feel Druckman's decisions might be agenda-fueled but I haven't gotten the idea that the game is about shoving that agenda in your face. Yes, there will be a lesbian romance, yes you play as Ellie but what's the actual story about? What's the actual plot? In the grand scheme aren't these just minor details in a story that most likely isn't trying to change your mind about the world at large in a strictly political sense? Druckman has said it's a game about hatred and hatred is a theme that's more universal than SJW agendas. Think to the pioneering director for feminism in the '80s... James Cameron, his movies had strong female leads but their messages weren't about that, the film's had morals and plots that didn't require female leads, it's just a choice he made, what if this is the same? We've seen no evidence to the contrary, yes including in the spoiler thread.
I'm idly scrolling through this thread & came across this post.
We had a little spat a few days ago & called each other some names, but I want to be fair & say that this is well stated & interesting to read. Respect where it's due.
instead of just making a great story .. they try forcing their stupid SJW ideologies down our throats .. they can shove their game where the sun don't shine.
instead of just making a great story .. they try forcing their stupid SJW ideologies down our throats .. they can shove their game where the sun don't shine.
What's the process of getting these ideologies shoved down are throats will i instantly change my opinon on the trans community and the blatant idiotic idea that people can just identify as 98 diffrent genders.
I've watched a lot woke stuff and doesn't seem effecting me so agenda doesn't seem very effective.
There is a huge agenda going on. How can anyone ignore this. As a gay man this shit is bonkers. A lot of "minorities" being pushed in to make a cinematic game. This crap doesnt phase "me".
The Walking Dead is pushing their so called "wokeness" with diverse cast of characters and people don't really care because it doesn't take away anything from the actual story.
Ellie and Bill being gay in the Last of Us Part I didn't change the story.
Nadine being a female mercenary and Drake having a daughter shouldn't even matter.
How did these two games become a problem because of their so called "wokeness"?
I've read story leaks of The Last of US Part II, and there's no woke narrative being pushed at all, unless you think having too many female characters is a problem.
The point of the kiss was to show a tender, vulnerable side to Ellie which could then be immediately contrasted with the feral murderous version we see taking out the cultists. Which in turn begs the question, what could drive this character to these extremes?
Find out, when you play TLOU2.
Its not exactly complicated, and it works irrespective of the type of relationship in question as its not advertising a romance so much as a story of violent revenge.
That anyone would take it any other way is, sorry to say this, suspect. The sheer amount of emphasis on the significance of it being a lesbian kiss demonstrates prejudice because there's nothing inherently wrong or even shocking about it. It could be a result of homophobia, or an overreaction to what could be construed as an opportunitic and tokenistic political signal. Its a response borne of prejudice either way.
Examine your feelings on the matter. Did Ellie's sexuality come out of nowhere, are teen lesbians really such a big deal, and why aren't you seeing it in its proper context within the trailer/pitch. Its like talking about the bread not the filling in the sandwich
do you agree with the idea that everything is political? If so, why be surprised when people see political messages in everything, including a kiss? this is where simple bumper stick philosophy causes trouble.
a negative reaction doesnt have to be prejudice, it can be a reaction against broader societal ideological conflicts symbolised by something innocuous. For example, an unemployed mid-west cishet white male who has no power and is not oppressing anyone, feels cast as a villain because of their group identity; and this cause pain and deepens feelings of alienation and despair because they don't get the luxury of blaming an oppressor or having socially acceptable metanarratives that help them get through their days. Further, they are shamed and excluded when they express their feelings. So, a 20 second trailer kiss elicits feelings that in another time or context, they would not.
I am not proposing any solutions, just stating the fact that this shit is complex and “negative reaction = bigot and worthless human” is false.
On a personal level, this is why I don't like identity politics, because instead of emphasising our common humanity, people get pitted against each other and the result is blame and resentment. Well, that isn’t not entirely true. I do think there are two valid group identities worth highlighting, global elites and everyone else.
I'm idly scrolling through this thread & came across this post.
We had a little spat a few days ago & called each other some names, but I want to be fair & say that this is well stated & interesting to read. Respect where it's due.
I appreciate that. I think we all get a little weirdly dug into positions we don't totally agree with and I wanted to make that post to better clarify where I stand which includes admitting where the detractors have a point, to me. There's not enough admitting the other side has a point, in my view.
do you agree with the idea that everything is political? If so, why be surprised when people see political messages in everything, including a kiss? this is where simple bumper stick philosophy causes trouble.
I guess that's my problem, because I don't think "everything is political". I think its a dishonest statement which is used by people to justify their perspectives on and subjective reading of things as absolute fact.
What is the politics in the statement exactly? The word itself is a non specific umbrella term for a huge variety of philosophies and philosophical practices in service of the goal of organizing control over human communities.
Not everything is done with a philosophical basis in mind, or a grand intention of enacting control. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar as Freud (likely apoctyphally) once said.
The point being if everything is political, everything is psychological, everything is philosophical, everything is anything you can wrap a cognitive framework around!
Its bullshit, all it does is to legitimize attaching significance way beyond an articles content or its author's intentions because its important to "you".
a negative reaction doesnt have to be prejudice, it can be a reaction against broader societal ideological conflicts symbolised by something innocuous. For example, an unemployed mid-west cishet white male who has no power and is not oppressing anyone, feels cast as a villain because of their group identity; and this cause pain and deepens feelings of alienation and despair because they don't get the luxury of blaming an oppressor or having socially acceptable metanarratives that help them get through their days. Further, they are shamed and excluded when they express their feelings. So, a 20 second trailer kiss elicits feelings that in another time or context, they would not.
I am not proposing any solutions, just stating the fact that this shit is complex and “negative reaction = bigot and worthless human” is false.
On a personal level, this is why I don't like identity politics, because instead of emphasising our common humanity, people get pitted against each other and the result is blame and resentment. Well, that isn’t not entirely true. I do think there are two valid group identities worth highlighting, global elites and everyone else.
The point I was trying to make was that there's a big distinction between prejudice and outright bigotry, but you can't say either is a good thing or at least supportable as real criticism.
Obviously overt bigotry is just bad, its ignorant and stupid. However there are other biases we can carry in as intellectual/emotional baggage when judging things we encounter, that aren't so easy to dismiss. For example, the idea that everything a company or creator does is purely to score "woke" points. i.e. garner social credit amongst his/her peer-group.
This is not entirely unreasonable, it speaks to the sincerity and intent of the author, BUT, if all that does is confirm or coincide with a pre-existing opinion of that person what we are talking about is prejudice. We are passing judgement prematurely based on an existing opinion.
Surely then, the most honest and reasonable and just approach is to set this prejudice aside and judge the thing purely on its own merits, not our preconceptions about its author. That's what you'd be asked to do in a court of law, right?
Bottom line, look at that lesbian kiss purely on its dramatic merits, its actually fine. Its not actually pushing any sort of political agenda, its there purely to be juxtaposed with the savagery of the revenge angle. Its not like Ellie's sexual orientation wasn't already defined so you can;t even argue that it was wedged in for shock value.
This whole "everything is political" notion is fucking cancer. It drove me away from politics. People can live their while lives without thinking about politics. When I play Pacman I just want to eat fucking ghosts. Screw politics.
This whole "everything is political" notion is fucking cancer. It drove me away from politics. People can live their while lives without thinking about politics. When I play Pacman I just want to eat fucking ghosts. Screw politics.
I see...so if a straight person was doing this in a trailer, you would support this very comment by a SJW?
Lets see...a guy and a girl kiss and then a SJW comes out and states "you can see the reason/agenda behind making a character kiss. To say that kiss wasn't agenda driven is just being willfully blind"...
I see......soooooo we can't prove its happening, but come on bro you must be willfully blind if you don't see secret Illuminati agenda? So any one kissing in a game is agenda? No one is making a story for any reason other then agenda? Sounding like you folks have a lot in common with SJW then you'd like to admit.
So I don't get this whole "agenda" cause something is in a game as I don't buy my games based on what the developers believes or not or what religion they are or not or anything like that.
I see...so if a straight person was doing this in a trailer, you would support this very comment by a SJW?
Lets see...a guy and a girl kiss and then a SJW comes out and states "you can see the reason/agenda behind making a character kiss. To say that kiss wasn't agenda driven is just being willfully blind"...
I see......soooooo we can't prove its happening, but come on bro you must be willfully blind if you don't see secret Illuminati agenda? So any one kissing in a game is agenda? No one is making a story for any reason other then agenda? Sounding like you folks have a lot in common with SJW then you'd like to admit.
So I don't get this whole "agenda" cause something is in a game as I don't buy my games based on what the developers believes or not or what religion they are or not or anything like that.
They make the same argument and then pretend they are waaaaaay different then the other side. I play all games that look fun regardless of demographics in the game or anyone's religious or political views, even if pushed in the game as that is their right and we are never even going to know 100% of anyone's damn reason for putting something in a game to even buy anything based on such weird logic.
This whole "everything is political" notion is fucking cancer. It drove me away from politics. People can live their while lives without thinking about politics. When I play Pacman I just want to eat fucking ghosts. Screw politics.
That is because pac man isn't a story driven game. A story driven game about a world that has completely fallen apart will have some political stuff in there.
I see......soooooo we can't prove its happening, but come on bro you must be willfully blind if you don't see secret Illuminati agenda? So any one kissing in a game is agenda? No one is making a story for any reason other then agenda? Sounding like you folks have a lot in common with SJW then you'd like to admit.
So I don't get this whole "agenda" cause something is in a game as I don't buy my games based on what the developers believes or not or what religion they are or not or anything like that.
Druckmann himself said he had a "secret agenda" when he designed Ellie, to change how the industry handles female characters. During the same panel he said he thought his game idea where only women could turn into zombies was "horribly misogynist." He's also said that he changed various male characters into women because he finds representation important. He's a fan of Sarkeesian, whose literal goal is to use video games and other popular culture as a vehicle for promoting intersectional feminist ideals. It's obvious he has political views, and that he wants to represent them in his games. It's a bit disingenuous to pretend people are reaching. We know a lot, and people can make educated guesses for the things we don't know.
That's not to say he can't or shouldn't do any of these things. He can do whatever he wants with his games as long as his superiors and underlings agree. The real problem is his shitting on other characters and games, and pointing them out as immoral and harmful. That's where the culture war happens. It's fine to be positive about your own contributions to the industry, but why does that have to go along with negativity about other developers, and their characters, stories and games? You should think about that.
That is because pac man isn't a story driven game. A story driven game about a world that has completely fallen apart will have some political stuff in there.
Nothing wrong with anyone wanting to play Pacman or not play or watch anything poltical btw, I have no beef with them lol
I agree with this 100% though, a game with humans will very much have all the issues we have as humans (or should anyway). So yea, we'll have politics, religious, gender, sex, race issues etc. Anyone questioning why anything should be in a game, you'd need to first question how the fuck can you make much of anything about humans in such a story without talking about ANY of that?
The world is ending and we seriously going to pretend humans would not blame folks of different races, genders, religions, political affiliations etc?
So.....let us look at da Rona.....not a fucking apocalypse annnnnnnd
The report, released Monday by researchers at Tel Aviv University, notes an 18% increase in anti-Semitic violence in 2019 and recent accusations blaming Jews for causing and spreading the coronavirus.
Most fictional claims about black immunity to the coronavirus are connected to a long history of contradictory but uniformly racist ideas.
www.nbcnews.com
Keep in mind, funny enough I've heard 2 conspiracy about the virus regarding black people. 1 is that they are immune because they created it to kill off people who are not black, 1 is that black people can get the virus and the spreading of the lie that they are immune was to trick black people into not protecting themselves to kill off black people....
The point I'm making is simple, this is how humans behave and this isn't even a fucking zombie apocalypse. Why would we ask a game to ignore all that? Thats like making a game about fucking lions and then ignore a whole list of factual things they do, be like "i don't want to offend anyone, so in dis game, da lions don't poop, we just don't want folks thinking we have a poop agenda bro" lol
Something being in a game doesn't mean the developer supports it, it would be like saying MURDER is something developers support as its in many games.
My belief, if it happened in real life, its fair game in a video game.
That is because pac man isn't a story driven game. A story driven game about a world that has completely fallen apart will have some political stuff in there.
Nothing wrong with anyone wanting to play Pacman or not play or watch anything poltical btw, I have no beef with them lol
I agree with this 100% though, a game with humans will very much have all the issues we have as humans (or should anyway). So yea, we'll have politics, religious, gender, sex, race issues etc. Anyone questioning why anything should be in a game, you'd need to first question how the fuck can you make much of anything about humans in such a story without talking about ANY of that?
The world is ending and we seriously going to pretend humans would not blame folks of different races, genders, religions, political affiliations etc?
So.....let us look at da Rona.....not a fucking apocalypse annnnnnnd
The report, released Monday by researchers at Tel Aviv University, notes an 18% increase in anti-Semitic violence in 2019 and recent accusations blaming Jews for causing and spreading the coronavirus.
Most fictional claims about black immunity to the coronavirus are connected to a long history of contradictory but uniformly racist ideas.
www.nbcnews.com
Keep in mind, funny enough I've heard 2 conspiracy about the virus regarding black people. 1 is that they are immune because they created it to kill off people who are not black, 1 is that black people can get the virus and the spreading of the lie that they are immune was to trick black people into not protecting themselves to kill off black people....
The point I'm making is simple, this is how humans behave and this isn't even a fucking zombie apocalypse. Why would we ask a game to ignore all that? Thats like making a game about fucking lions and then ignore a whole list of factual things they do, be like "i don't want to offend anyone, so in dis game, da lions don't poop, we just don't want folks thinking we have a poop agenda bro" lol
Something being in a game doesn't mean the developer supports it, it would be like saying MURDER is something developers support as its in many games.
My belief, if it happened in real life, its fair game in a video game.
None of the games you are talking about are actually reference any serous human conflict. Nothing wrong if you don't like that either, but the games also are not aimed at that in the first place.
So makes more sense for folks to play those games if they have issue with a game having any real life references.
None of the games you are talking about are actually reference any serous human conflict. Nothing wrong if you don't like that either, but the games also are not aimed at that in the first place.
So makes more sense for folks to play those games if they have issue with a game having any real life references.
I'm just saying I like to turn of the console and blow shit up or kill enemies or beat the crap of thugs or kill people or solve puzzles. The last thing that goes through my mind is politics or who like to put their cock on who, stuff like that. Gaming is escapism. When it becomes too much like the real world it loses its purpose IMHO.
As another gay man, calm your fucking tits.
There is nothing bonkers going on here.
It's the same marketing bullshit that's been going on since marketing first became a thing.
Whatever the 'in' or 'hot button' issue is gets shoehorned into whatever to make woke bucks.
Some people will slobber over it and the media, seeking the same woke bucks, will make it look like they are the majority. They aren't and very rarely make up even half.
That isn't to say it's all bad. Some things will pull off the whole woke thing better than others, sometimes without even trying.
I'm just saying I like to turn of the console and blow shit up or kill enemies or beat the crap of thugs or kill people or solve puzzles. The last thing that goes through my mind is politics or who like to put their cock on who, stuff like that. Gaming is escapism. When it becomes too much like the real world it loses its purpose IMHO.
I mean, thats nice. Such concepts, ideals and references to those topics are not for you then. No different then someone who doesn't want to watch Law and Order or something cause it has religion, politics etc in it. Like I stated before "Nothing wrong with anyone wanting to play Pacman or not play or watch anything poltical btw, I have no beef with them"
I don't think Anita had much influence if any on this game. She also hates violence in games and movies. She criticized Fury Road for it's violence and this game certainly is violent.
I was discussing this game with my friend about a year ago and I actually said that a good story would be that the cult thinks that immune people are somehow the work of the devil and they find out about Ellie being immune so they attack Tommy's community for sheltering her. It turns out that other people are immune and that is who they were disemboweling in that gameplay trailer. It would be a great metaphor for people find scapegoats in times of crisis. If you read about the Black Death different groups were scapegoated and religious groups formed. That would have been an interesting plot.
I'm just saying I like to turn of the console and blow shit up or kill enemies or beat the crap of thugs or kill people or solve puzzles. The last thing that goes through my mind is politics or who like to put their cock on who, stuff like that. Gaming is escapism. When it becomes too much like the real world it loses its purpose IMHO.
None of the games you are talking about are actually reference any serous human conflict. Nothing wrong if you don't like that either, but the games also are not aimed at that in the first place.
So makes more sense for folks to play those games if they have issue with a game having any real life references.
This is Makeb. It's a gay planet. When I say it's a gay planet I don't mean that the planet itself is innately homosexual. Makeb itself is just a genderless, oblate spheroid of rock surrounding a sexy molten iron core, shuffled away in some dark corner of a far away galaxy. When I say that Makeb is
www.pcgamesn.com
Dragon Age: Inquisition Honored by LGBT-Advocacy Group
I see...so if a straight person was doing this in a trailer, you would support this very comment by a SJW?
Lets see...a guy and a girl kiss and then a SJW comes out and states "you can see the reason/agenda behind making a character kiss. To say that kiss wasn't agenda driven is just being willfully blind"...
I see......soooooo we can't prove its happening, but come on bro you must be willfully blind if you don't see secret Illuminati agenda? So any one kissing in a game is agenda? No one is making a story for any reason other then agenda? Sounding like you folks have a lot in common with SJW then you'd like to admit.
So I don't get this whole "agenda" cause something is in a game as I don't buy my games based on what the developers believes or not or what religion they are or not or anything like that.
What's the process of getting these ideologies shoved down are throats will i instantly change my opinon on the trans community and the blatant idiotic idea that people can just identify as 98 diffrent genders.
I've watched a lot woke stuff and doesn't seem effecting me so agenda doesn't seem very effective.
You are completely missing the point. Most of of normal people who work 40+ hours a week don't want to be preached to in our entertainment. We just want to relax, enjoy a good story and blow off some steam. We aren't paying these game directors, movie actors , etc. to preach their political agenda to us 24/7. Who the hell gave them the right to do that? It really comes off as them thinking they morally superior beings, preaching down to the dumb masses and trying to educate (indoctrinate) us into thinking like they do. Many of us are sick and tired of it and we are finally taking a stance by not buying their trash products.
You are completely missing the point. Most of of normal people who work 40+ hours a week don't want to be preached to in our entertainment. We just want to relax, enjoy a good story and blow off some steam. We aren't paying these game directors, movie actors , etc. to preach their political agenda to us 24/7. Who the hell gave them the right to do that? It really comes off as them thinking they morally superior beings, preaching down to the dumb masses and trying to educate (indoctrinate) us into thinking like they do. Many of us are sick and tired of it and we are finally taking a stance by not buying their trash products.
maybe i'm just used all this stuff its been a thing in British TV for last twenty years. Regarding idea of being indoctrinate'' i really don't agree with that you cant change peoples opinions like that all, if your scared seeing a buff lady and lesbian will start changing way you think then i think you need to some serious help.
maybe i'm just used all this stuff its been a thing in British TV for last twenty years. Regarding idea of being indoctrinate'' i really don't agree with that you cant change peoples opinions like that all, if your scared seeing a buff lady and lesbian will start changing way you think then i think you need to some serious help.
News to me. But thing is, no one really cares. None of that stuff overtly influences the game, or defines the game as what it is. It's simply a passive influence on the game design and the game never forgets that it's point is to be a game and entertain.
The fact so many of us have played those Contra games for years (in some cases decades) without even knowing this just goes to show you how little any of the political influences actually drive the game's narrative or design.
The only message in the Contra games is to kick ass and shoot tons of shit, like it aught to be. It's like watching Robocop or Total Recall; sure then-contemporary wide-scale socio-political events influenced their story, but they never once got in the way of them being kick-ass sci-fi action flicks abiding by genre conventions while being innovative and fun, putting entertainment value well ahead of any messages they may've had.
maybe i'm just used all this stuff its been a thing in British TV for last twenty years. Regarding idea of being indoctrinate'' i really don't agree with that you cant change peoples opinions like that all, if your scared seeing a buff lady and lesbian will start changing way you think then i think you need to some serious help.
I remember when I was this little unbeliever kid and Jeohvah's Witness came at the door of my house to preach. It made me hate religion even more. People who preach are idiots. It's uncalled for.
I don't think Anita had much influence if any on this game. She also hates violence in games and movies. She criticized Fury Road for it's violence and this game certainly is violent.
I was discussing this game with my friend about a year ago and I actually said that a good story would be that the cult thinks that immune people are somehow the work of the devil and they find out about Ellie being immune so they attack Tommy's community for sheltering her. It turns out that other people are immune and that is who they were disemboweling in that gameplay trailer. It would be a great metaphor for people find scapegoats in times of crisis. If you read about the Black Death different groups were scapegoated and religious groups formed. That would have been an interesting plot.
TBF she tried squeezing her way (well, blackmailing her way) into a consulting gig for Cyberpunk 2077, which is chock full of violence of its own type. She's probably a lot more lax on violence in media versus her perceived objectification of women in media in all honesty.
As in, if the latter can be tailored to her tastes she'd probably ignore if the former got gratuitous...probably until it served her financially to virtue signal about that as well.
(This might be super bad, I know Resetera would ban me right away for thesis like this below, so please delete if it's toooo far fetched)
I've noticed that these lgbt developers usually have rainbow flag as their avatar or something like this and are very aggressive. Imagine this:
-People are extremely lonely nowadays. Especially Nerds, so some developers
-They seek love(even if they don't know this) and in extreme search some may turn gay and like it because that's the only love they get and they were rejected otherwise
-Then it's easy to become extremely protective over this and fixed on the agenda since it was so hard to find Your relationship and straight people are bad since they rejected you
It gets translated into games they make and it's ok but when it's taken to the extreme like Anita and Neil... then it ruins the whole game and story around it. This is probably why Amy left. This is why we don't get games like UC1,2,3 and Gears 1,2,3 anymore.
There are not that many of those people but they are very protective, very loud and we see more of this in gaming, because nerds = lonely = chance of gay.
I understand this might sound ignorant and I don't want to be seen this way. I am tolerant and don't want to forbid anyone from doing whatever they find. Especially love. Everyone should experience what love is, no matter from what angle. But there is no need to make it a statement and ruin plots.
(This might be super bad, I know Resetera would ban me right away for thesis like this below, so please delete if it's toooo far fetched)
I've noticed that these lgbt developers usually have rainbow flag as their avatar or something like this and are very aggressive. Imagine this:
-People are extremely lonely nowadays. Especially Nerds, so some developers
-They seek love(even if they don't know this) and in extreme search some may turn gay and like it because that's the only love they get and they were rejected otherwise
-Then it's easy to become extremely protective over this and fixed on the agenda since it was so hard to find Your relationship and straight people are bad since they rejected you
It gets translated into games they make and it's ok but when it's taken to the extreme like Anita and Neil... then it ruins the whole game and story around it. This is probably why Amy left. This is why we don't get games like UC1,2,3 and Gears 1,2,3 anymore.
There are not that many of those people but they are very protective, very loud and we see more of this in gaming, because nerds = lonely = chance of gay.
I understand this might sound ignorant and I don't want to be seen this way. I am tolerant and don't want to forbid anyone from doing whatever they find. Especially love. Everyone should experience what love is, no matter from what angle. But there is no need to make it a statement and ruin plots.
Naaaahhh, I doubt that loneliness alone is the driving force that makes gamer gay. Loners aren’t that desperate, but hey sometimes you find love in queer places.
As for the devs, it’s only a matter of volume and society. The most outspoken right-wing pursue the professional field of politics and financials, while the most outspoken left-wings go for the media. That’s why you can find most of those comments from artists or California-based game designers. It maintains the public’s simplistic narrative of Art vs. Order, and the media wants to keep it that way.
That’s why they promoted the image of the Liberal and Conservative extremists through the work each of them made. Other right-wing or casual nerds were not as outspoken, so their comments are reduced to echoes and niche discussions.
Naaaahhh, I doubt that loneliness alone is the driving force that makes gamer gay. Loners aren’t that desperate, but hey sometimes you find love in queer places.
As for the devs, it’s only a matter of volume and society. The most outspoken right-wing pursue the professional field of politics and financials, while the most outspoken left-wings go for the media. That’s why you can find most of those comments from artists or California-based game designers. It maintains the public’s simplistic narrative of Art vs. Order, and the media wants to keep it that way.
That’s why they promoted the image of the Liberal and Conservative extremists through the work each of them made. Other right-wing or casual nerds were not as outspoken, so their comments are reduced to echoes and niche discussions.
I don't know if loneliness is the driving force but it's true that there are many posers and transtrenders nowadays. I swear that at least 75% of the so-called bi girls are posers who would be scared shitless at the sight of a pussy. (they just kiss their friends on instagram and call it a day)
(This might be super bad, I know Resetera would ban me right away for thesis like this below, so please delete if it's toooo far fetched)
I've noticed that these lgbt developers usually have rainbow flag as their avatar or something like this and are very aggressive. Imagine this:
-People are extremely lonely nowadays. Especially Nerds, so some developers
-They seek love(even if they don't know this) and in extreme search some may turn gay and like it because that's the only love they get and they were rejected otherwise
-Then it's easy to become extremely protective over this and fixed on the agenda since it was so hard to find Your relationship and straight people are bad since they rejected you
It gets translated into games they make and it's ok but when it's taken to the extreme like Anita and Neil... then it ruins the whole game and story around it. This is probably why Amy left. This is why we don't get games like UC1,2,3 and Gears 1,2,3 anymore.
There are not that many of those people but they are very protective, very loud and we see more of this in gaming, because nerds = lonely = chance of gay.
I understand this might sound ignorant and I don't want to be seen this way. I am tolerant and don't want to forbid anyone from doing whatever they find. Especially love. Everyone should experience what love is, no matter from what angle. But there is no need to make it a statement and ruin plots.
I vehemently disagree with the idea that people are just "turning gay" to find love. You can't "turn gay", it is something you inherently are. The issue is that these folks surround themselves in an echo chamber and look for reasons to be offended. They are so insecure that they blame any criticism, any insult as being directed to their most noticeable trait: their sexuality. Same thing happens with race, religion, or politics.
Ever remember seeing or hearing someone (whether first hand or through media) bring up the race card when they feel insulted? How about neckbeards who call women whores for not dating them? Same concept here. The primarily issue is that you can't call these people out for being assholes as that is against "social norms" these days and you could face backlash.
Key and Peele did an excellent video and you can watch it above. Basically the very phenomena we are talking about.
Here’s the thing about inserting agendas like this. Not everyone agrees with it. Not everyone cheers it on. It causes division and rancor and that’s just how it goes.
SJWs will tell you that not having it is the same as having it, but that’s obvious baloney, since the Neil Druckmann/Anita Sarkeesian agenda is explicit and intentional. He has talked about it countless times. So when they say, “we will put this stuff in our games” it’s not like ND was making Jak and Daxter and was like “hey let’s not put this stuff in our games.”
So when other people say, hey I don’t like it when Druckmann puts in all this stuff he is putting in to advance a political agenda, it’s not crying about censorship, it’s discussing an agenda that he explicitly inserted into his game for political reasons.
I liked TLOU but I’m skipping this game because I’m not on board with the agenda. And I bet If you ask Druckmann he will say he’s fine with that.
What agends does the new game have that wasnt already present in the first one....have people played the first game and remember it differently, christ people
instead of just making a great story .. they try forcing their stupid SJW ideologies down our throats .. they can shove their game where the sun don't shine.
News to me. But thing is, no one really cares. None of that stuff overtly influences the game, or defines the game as what it is. It's simply a passive influence on the game design and the game never forgets that it's point is to be a game and entertain.
The fact so many of us have played those Contra games for years (in some cases decades) without even knowing this just goes to show you how little any of the political influences actually drive the game's narrative or design.
The only message in the Contra games is to kick ass and shoot tons of shit, like it aught to be. It's like watching Robocop or Total Recall; sure then-contemporary wide-scale socio-political events influenced their story, but they never once got in the way of them being kick-ass sci-fi action flicks abiding by genre conventions while being innovative and fun, putting entertainment value well ahead of any messages they may've had.
The point of the kiss was to show a tender, vulnerable side to Ellie which could then be immediately contrasted with the feral murderous version we see taking out the cultists. Which in turn begs the question, what could drive this character to these extremes?
Find out, when you play TLOU2.
Its not exactly complicated, and it works irrespective of the type of relationship in question as its not advertising a romance so much as a story of violent revenge.
That anyone would take it any other way is, sorry to say this, suspect. The sheer amount of emphasis on the significance of it being a lesbian kiss demonstrates prejudice because there's nothing inherently wrong or even shocking about it. It could be a result of homophobia, or an overreaction to what could be construed as an opportunitic and tokenistic political signal. Its a response borne of prejudice either way.
Or more likely, a response borne out of evidentiary backing. The next trailer:
What's the very first thing made note of without even twenty seconds passed on? The kiss, completely irrelevant to anything subsequent in the trailer. What exact message was that trailer sending by that allusion? What contrast? Why was, not the relationship, but the orientation of it, relevant to anything? Why should we care? What does it matter? Anyone who is honest with themselves knows it was doing nothing but making it loud and clear that there is a point to be made, lest it be forgotten: that Ellie is a lesbian. I would be making the exact same argument if it were a hetero couple musing over the previous evening’s intimacy, as it would feel equally misplaced, strained, and irrelevant.
I don't see any representations of heteronormativity so going out of their way to make note of itself than I have with these two trailers comprising mere minutes. I could give your position the benefit of the doubt with the first trailer, but after the above? It is blatantly obvious what is going on here, and the second trailer lends credence to those who suspected the first that it wasn't their "prejudice" that was driving their beliefs. What is suspect is those who would continually deny it, not only in exclusivity of the trailers which are collectively sufficient based upon their own merits, but also (and especially) when taken in macro context of Naughty Dog's actions, statements, and affiliations over the past years.
I thought it was just setting up Ellie having a relationship... someone to care about, someone to lose. That it's a gay relationship didn't seem important and was pretty much pre-determined by Left Behind. Their may be an agenda but it's kinda sad an agenda is required for their to be a gay relationship in a AAA game, isn't it?
