Support NeoGAF

[HawarMiran]

nice casual racism

and a example of a sony fanboy

I am from eastern anatolia. So no racism here. But I like the salt of your tears

 

[Thirty7ven]

It'll be tit for tat for a while.

It's why I'm dreading footage of games taking full advantage of XVA. I can see what is coming from a mile away from both sides.

I never kept up with the initial PS4 vs XBOne battle online so I can only imagine it was the same back then. 900p vs 1080p, 1.3TF vs 1.8TF etc...

What happened back in the 360/PS3 days was Pixel counting became a thing. Digital Foundry made its run on the back of counting how many pixels the 360 had over the PS3 in third party games. It lasted the whole generation.

 

[DrDamn]

I would also like to point out that, as the following is a complex expression text, it is possible that some errors have been made in the translation with everyday expressions in my language but that they may not have a direct translation in English, or that some examples are not understood from the everything. In that case my sincere apologies. Let us begin.

BGs just wanted to say I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your posts. You don't need to worry unduly about the language. You always manage to come across as one of the most polite and respectful posters here.

NB: You've got some repeated paragraphs in that post where it seems you've re-worked some and probably meant to remove the others.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

The long and the short of it is thus:
Xbox: 40x I/O over Xbox One
PlayStation: 100x I/O over PS4

Now we wait to see the games in June and July.

Bad way to put it like this.
Fanbois will now tend to argue that Xbox One IO ist 10 times faster then PS4 IO making XSX IO 4 times faster then PS5 IO.
You read it here first.

 

[ToadMan]

According to Cerny (the "Road to PlayStation 5" video), CPU and GPU have a fixed power consumption in common and they ping back at each other for who runs at 100% and who doesn't according to the situation.

This is an incorrect summary of what Cerny said and indeed how the PS5 works.

Both processors can run at 100% of clock 100% of the time assuming sufficiently optimised code.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Don't worry mate I know you're not being a dick.

I just find it incredibly odd how, as you say, argumentative people can get about bloody consoles.

The PS5 or XSX could literally shit out the cure for Covid-19 through the disc tray and they'd find a way to trash either system

Lol seriously, I know what you mean. We are going to be playing some graphically intense games on these consoles, now, whether they are fun depends on the devs and is obviously subjective.

 

[Physiognomonics]

52 CU vs 36 CU.
Nanite runs faster on XSX. This is an un-disputeable fact.

Not as simple as that. You still need to feed the CUs with the async compute jobs. About that, do you know where the ACEs (Async Compute Engines) are and at what frequency they run at ?

- They are not in the CUs
- They run at GPU frequency, so they run about 22% faster on PS5.

 

[Nikana]

Lol seriously, I know what you mean. We are going to be playing some graphically intense ganes on these consoles now whether they are fun depends on the devs and is obviously subjective.

Bullshit.

I'm gonna be Playing SSD simulator 20 and 52 CU Pickup. While all you idiots play God of war and Halo. More like God of Bore and Halame.

 

[BGs]

BGs just wanted to say I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your posts. You don't need to worry unduly about the language. You always manage to come across as one of the most polite and respectful posters here.

NB: You've got some repeated paragraphs in that post where it seems you've re-worked some and probably meant to remove the others.

I've noticed, I think it's already edited correctly (I think).

The problem is that Google only allows me to translate 5000 characters, and if I don't notice it and keep writing half the text, the content at the end will be erased. So I have to copy and paste and rewrite the missing paragraph and many times I do not use the same words again or I realize that maybe the translation will not be very good and I will rewrite it differently. In any case I think the general idea is understood.

Thank you very much for the warning and praise.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Not as simple as that. You still need to feed the CUs with the async compute jobs. About that, do you know where the ACEs (Async Compute Engines) are and at what frequency they run at ?

- They are not in the CUs
- They run at GPU frequency, so they run about 22% faster on PS5.

Is Nanite’s “software rendering” done in the Async Compute Engines? Not the CUs?

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I don't believe Sonys advantage will be that much. It would be devastating to be that far behind the competition where I/O is concerned.

Well just basing it on already being twice the speed and without removal of bottlenecks which is what that hardware is for it'll surely slow further.

Also that dev opinion lines up with this and other whispers and says...

It is easy. It is useless to have 12 boxes if they do not fit through the door all together.

You have 12 boxes to fill. So you can't pass all the boxes at once. You must decide which boxes will pass and which will not. That is handled by a coordinator. And the coordinator tells the delivery man which boxes to take.

Mrs. XSX wants to make the move as soon as possible, but it turns out that only 8 boxes can fit on the door at a time. The coordinator is fast, and also uses a box compressor so that 10 boxes can go through instead of 8, but there are several drawbacks. The compressor can only compress the red boxes, and the coordinator also has to coordinate many other things, street traffic, people passing through the door, the space in the room where the boxes are stored, the noise of neighbors who distract the delivery man, search and select what the boxes are filled with, etc. Also, the delivery man is not so fast and is very distracted filling and transporting boxes. So it passes the 10 boxes (not 12) at a certain speed "1x". The lady demands that the boxes arrive, but they do not arrive as quickly as the lady would like, since although she has many boxes, the system is not capable of managing all of them properly.

On the other hand we have Mrs. PS5. You only have 10 boxes to fill. But its door is twice as big, enough for all its boxes to enter at once and there is room for people to also enter and exit through the door. Furthermore, the coordinator has the ability to automatically discard unnecessary boxes, so he doesn't waste time checking boxes that are not going to be used. In addition, anyone in the environment can do the job of the coordinator or the delivery man (even at the same time). The compressor is not that new, but it can compress all boxes, whether they are red or blue. All. And the delivery man is more than twice as fast and manages to pass the boxes at the speed of "2.5x" in the worst case, and "5x" on many occasions. In addition, if someone is left free or without work, they can help to distribute boxes with the delivery man or coordinate work with the coordinator. All this makes this removal company the most efficient ever seen and that the number of boxes available is irrelevant. For that moving system, 12 boxes are not needed, with 10 you can do the same job (and more or better in some cases). Having more boxes would only make the price of the move more expensive without needing any of it.

Of course, having more boxes available always helps to advertise yourself as a top removal company compared to the competition, even if your removal company is normal and ordinary. But it is only that, a smokescreen.

That does not mean that XSX is bad, far from it, it is an extraordinary machine. But PS5 has an efficiency NEVER seen before.

It is true that on PC there are more powerful cards or more powerful systems, but you know that these cards are never used properly, they draw raw power, but they are never used. It is the scourge of PC, an ecosystem that is too varied and unusable. In addition to exorbitant prices.

And I've always been a PCLover, but things as they are, what I've seen on PS5 I only remember something similar when 3DFX and its Glide came out. Its astonishing speed leaves you speechless

 

[Exodia]

As far as we know Xbox doesn't have the 12 channel controller, co processors, cache scrubbers etc.
[/wuote]

Tell me what does these things do exact and the specific boost it will provide in details? for all we know it can provide a 3% boost.

Sony have claimed if their ssd was 100x faster with these specific hardware breakthroughs they can transfer it to the useable end as 100x faster.

Their SSD is 100x faster because it runs at 9,000 MB/s vs PS4's 100 MB/s
100 * 100 = 10,000

Hardware decompression and not having to mess with the CPU gives you those gains.

Now if Microsoft have not eliminated the ssd bottlenecks and all of them (which sony said you need to do and to do that they needed that specific hardware, that's just not present on xbox) then it's common sense their io will be much slower. Unless sfs is magic and bcpack somehow are better the dedicated hardware.

What do you mean? Their BcPack runs on their dedicated hardware decompressor. Bro come on...

Again, look at that third party dev opinion that lines up with a lot of others we have heard, from insane metal. It mentions 2.5x faster minimum - 5x faster.

What opinion?

It could end up 25 times ps4 at the other end. That's great and a massive improvement but sony is claiming their speed transfers so ps5 would in that situation be 4 times xbox.

That's basically what that dev opinion is saying it is.

Now you are just making stuff up.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I've noticed, I think it's already edited correctly (I think).

The problem is that Google only allows me to translate 5000 characters, and if I don't notice it and keep writing half the text, the content at the end will be erased. So I have to copy and paste and rewrite the missing paragraph and many times I do not use the same words again or I realize that maybe the translation will not be very good and I will rewrite it differently. In any case I think the general idea is understood.

Thank you very much for the warning and praise.

That sounds like a lot of effort for not a lot of reward for yourself. I think it’s really appreciated by all.

 

[Exodia]

Not as simple as that. You still need to feed the CUs with the async compute jobs. About that, do you know where the ACEs (Async Compute Engines) are and at what frequency they run at ?

- They are not in the CUs
- They run at GPU frequency, so they run about 22% faster on PS5.

This is not true. It disproportionately favors wide GPUs (XSX) over narrow (PS5). Compute shaders are no longer augmenting the FF pipeline, they are doing all the work. This will benefit wide (XSX) over clockrate (PS5).

Shaders: 3328 vs 2304

 

[IntentionalPun]

This is an incorrect summary of what Cerny said and indeed how the PS5 works.

Both processors can run at 100% of clock 100% of the time assuming sufficiently optimised code.

Also not a good explanation of what Cerny said lol

"Developers don't need to optimise in any way; if necessary, the frequency will adjust to whatever actions the CPU and GPU are performing. "

Why would a dev want to modify their code until the clocks aren't adjusting? Sounds like a nightmare scenario.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

This is not true. It disproportionately favors wide GPUs (XSX) over narrow (PS5). Compute shaders are no longer augmenting the FF pipeline, they are doing all the work. This will benefit wide (XSX) over clockrate (PS5).

Epic games technical director says it uses Async Compute, so if both have the same amount of Async Compute Engines, it would favour clock-speed, right? The whole “rising tides” thing?

 

[ToadMan]

Hardware vs Software approach.
We saw something similar this gen when Sony announced Playgo (hardware) to reduce install times while MS later released firmware updates to try combat it.

It shows it’s an afterthought to their original vision or at the very least something they’re not so serious about since it’s a post launch goal.

Yeah I actually think MS got wind of how fast Sony’s storage would be and are scrabbling to close the gap with software. They’re definitely trying not to end up with egg on their face as happened at PS4/xb1 launch when the performance difference became clear.

Not to mention that the Xsex SSD can only direct address 100gb while PS5 can direct address the entire 825gb of their SSD.

I’m still curious if this will cause a potentially significant restriction on developers and offering strong compression is a mitigation for MS.

 

[Gamernyc78]

when sony lost the TF fight, you knew Sony fanboys would come back hard

Those proper games always have ppl on the defensive lol luckily in tht respect thy never fail.

 

[yewles1]

I would like to take advantage of your response to make a general appeal. It is very important that you do not take this quote as an answer to your points, but as a general idea of the situation. It is not so much about being right but about exposing some facts.

I would also like to point out that, as the following is a complex expression text, it is possible that some errors have been made in the translation with everyday expressions in my language but that they may not have a direct translation in English, or that some examples are not understood from the everything. In that case my sincere apologies. Let us begin.

Every opinion is respectable, but not every opinion is valid.

PS5 doesn't need more than what it has.

XSX is an extraordinary system. Within the traditional workflow system it is the best home system created so far.

PS5 is not traditional. It is the first and only of its kind. It may go well or it may go wrong, time will tell, but it certainly is not comparable. It is as if you wanted to compare an electric car and a gasoline car. Yes, there are things that you can use to generate a debate, such as speed in KMH or MPH. But it will be an inconsequential debate. The basis of both is to achieve a displacement, but it is achieved in different ways and with different mechanisms.

Attempts are being made (too many times) to defend absurd comparisons. I am going to give a very exaggerated example, but so that the idea is understood:

XSX may already have the best oil tank, filters, carb, spark plugs, combustion engine, or timing belt, but it does because you should have it, because it is necessary to get better performance with that type of vehicle. But PS5 does not need all those things, it is an electric car. PS5 does not need BcPack. With Kraken (by the way, improved version for PS5) you have enough for what your system can offer. The purpose is to make both PS5 and XSX reach 300KMH. That XSX surely reaches that figure better in the traditional way? Undoubtedly, for sure. But PS5 is not traditional.

Starting from this exaggerated example it is necessary to qualify that yes, that both systems have things in common that are comparable and debatable, such as wheels, windows, transmission axles, etc ... And that can undoubtedly affect the final performance. , but we would be talking about elements that perhaps do not exceed 25% of the total system. We will see if they end up affecting or not.

For example, PS5 is a system that has an SSD that can make RAM dispensable for certain processes, so what are you doing wasting time comparing the different RAM of different systems? Can't you see you're wasting your time?

Other examples, XSX gets extra space by compressing data. Perfect, one way to approach a problem. PS5 uses the SSD to send data directly without going through RAM, so RAM will have more free space for other things. Perfect, another way to approach the same problem (I don't know if you understand what I mean to say). Comparable? It depends. The visual result is the same?

Other examples, XSX gets extra space by compressing data. Perfect, one way to approach a problem. PS5 uses the SSD to send data directly without going through RAM, so RAM will have more free space for other things. Perfect, another way to approach the same problem (I don't know if you understand what I mean to say).

What remains to be seen is whether PS5 is capable of delivering the same results as XSX by addressing the same issues differently. Therefore, the effective discussion should be reduced to whether this new content creation system (PS5) is more effective than the traditional one and if it is capable of offering a visual finish (and with optimal performance) that is comparatively identical or better than that of the systems. traditional. If the answer is "yes", it will not matter how it is achieved. It does not matter if one uses BcPack and another Kraken, or one 10GB of RAM and another 16GB. If the result shown on TV is the same in both XSX and PS5 (or higher in the latter) then Sony will have won, and the industry / developers too, as it will mean that a new way of creating content has been successful. That is to say, it will have managed to establish as "valid" the technology of the electric car in the automotive industry, then it will only be missing that with the years (or decades) the industry will programmatically migrate from the traditional system to the new one. Will that mean XSX results are bad? No. What is really being tested here is the "creation system", not the power itself. XSX will continue to offer the best results in the traditional style. And that doesn't mean PS5 can't deliver the same (or better) results with the new system. In the same way, surely there will be things that PS5 will do worse. Or things that were believed to be better and that are eventually discovered that do not work as well. It will be seen in time.

By the way, I don't want to be politically incorrect with some indirect colleagues in the sector, but Digital Foundry lives on comparisons. Which is fine. And with this, very interesting debates are generated. You can even generate a more logical or less debate, but I would not dare to say that its conclusion is the most appropriate in this circumstance. Since it could happen that one has to retract some unlucky words more times than one would like (as is already happening). Also note that it doesn't only matter what a number says, but what your eye perceives. Because here there is a lot of bionic eye detecting pixels in static images but also many of them wear glasses and in the end they have to end up playing on their sofa 2 meters from the TV. I understand this purism more for the pixels in those PC players who have a monitor that is sharper than their TV and at a much shorter distance (probably 60cm). But come on, I think that currently nobody is going to cut their veins by a few pixels more or less.

Sony is not looking to be "just" the best console, it is already on top, the PlayStation brand needs no advertising, Sony is in a situation where it can afford to "test" with innovative systems, and can afford to fail. In this case looking to improve the content creation system trying to maintain or improve the final qualities. MCerny is a developer who has designed 2 consoles with the intention of making developers' lives easier, since (intelligently) he knows that if the developer is happy and the creation system is simple, then consequently the developer will want to work with that system and therefore both the console will have more content and variety worldwide. And it is what is happening. It started to happen with PS4 and I think it will continue to happen with PS5. And this shouldn't confront people or anger anyone. Competitiveness is necessary to improve, and the result is that the user will always be the beneficiary. In addition, MCerny has enough experience behind him in various sectors to have earned the benefit of waiting to see what happens in order to judge properly. On the other hand, I understand that in forums there is a need to know everything "NOW". But these companies always make "investments" with long-term "results".

Whether or not PS5 will make it, or whether that system will catch on in the industry or not, only time will tell.

And the answer to the question will be known with the years and the results, and NOT with the theoretical numbers.

So, comparable? It depends. The visual result is the same? The ease of creation is the same? Can you do without certain things without affecting the final quality? Does the possible work system compensate based on the result obtained? We will see. My opinion is that it does compensate, amply. Although I know that there are people concerned about whether this affects their jobs. Although my opinion is again that I do not think it affects, let's be positive.

EDIT: Depuration of different translation errors and content duplication.

So basically...

XSX: Max Speed
PS5: Acceleration
Or...
XSX: Dodge Challenger Hellcat
PS5: Nissan GT-R NISMO

 

[Thirty7ven]

Epic games technical director says it uses Async Compute, so if both have the same amount of Async Compute Engines, it would favour clock-speed, right? The whole “rising tides” thing?

How do you know they have the same amount of ACE? Aren't those inside the CU?

 

[ToadMan]

Also not a good explanation of what Cerny said lol

"Developers don't need to optimise in any way; if necessary, the frequency will adjust to whatever actions the CPU and GPU are performing. "

Why would a dev want to modify their code until the clocks aren't adjusting? Sounds like a nightmare scenario.

You quoted a part of the interview where Cerny is specifically asked what’s happens if devs don’t optimise. The prior paragraphs covered him recommending code optimisation for power consumption.

I can’t work out if you did that to try and make your point seem correct when it clearly isn’t or you just don’t understand what you’re reading. In one case you’re someone who will ignore facts to pretend to be right, and in the other you just aren’t intellectually able to understand what follows. Anyway, this is what Cerny actually said about optimisation.

“Mark Cerny sees a time where developers will begin to optimise their game engines in a different way - to achieve optimal performance for the given power level. "Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win. "

So go and listen to Cerny again or read his interview in eurogamer rather than just cut and pasting a bit you don’t understand.

 

[IntentionalPun]

You quoted a part of the interview where Cerny is specifically asked what’s happens if devs don’t optimise. The prior paragraphs covered him recommending code optimisation for power consumption.

I can’t work out if you did that try and make your point seem correct when it clearly isn’t or you just don’t understand what you’re reading. In one case you’re someone who will ignore facts to be right, and in the other you just aren’t intellectually able to understand what follows. Anyway, this is what Cerny actually said about optimisation.

“Mark Cerny sees a time where developers will begin to optimise their game engines in a different way - to achieve optimal performance for the given power level. "Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win. "

So go and listen to Cerny again or read his interview in eurogamer rather than just cut and pasting a bit you don’t understand.

It's how it was reported by a number of outlets; I didn't read it in context with the original interview. Google the quote and you'll find it reported on out of context by about a dozen outelts and how someone reported it to me here, on this forum, by telling me devs wouldnt' have to optimize.

That is interesting reading it in context of the full Eurogramer article; there was no ill intention or lack of intellectual ability here.

Jesus fucking christ this fucking forum over-reacts to everything.

Here see an example of the numerous places reporting it how it was reported to me: https://wccftech.com/cerny-devs-don...y-for-ps5s-variable-clocks-its-all-automatic/

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

How do you know they have the same amount of ACE? Aren't those inside the CU?

They seem to be outside of the CU, and vary in amount depending on the card in the PC market. This makes sense as CUs are massively parallel to the point no single result can be returned until they’re all ready to return. You also can’t throw a job on half of them and then load up the other half while the first half are working. You need to be careful to load them up so that you don’t have an overlap, causing wasted compute per cycle.
Async compute is not synchronous with that, and can run arbitrary shader code with a focus on low latency.

If PS5 and XSX have the same amount of ACE, then PS5 will be ~20% faster at Nanite crunching?
It would make sense as to why Cerny and Sweeney’s collaboration went with big IO and narrow and fast GPU?

Cerny did seem to say TFLOP is just one measurement at what a GPU does, and at least for UE5, Epic and Sony seem to have been talking for years about the engine and the hardware.

I’d love further clarity on it, though.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The less compression the better for assets.

They need more compression to make up for the slower speed. One SSD setup is so fast, they don't need to compress so much. Better lossless in the end. Not to mention Kraken is insanely fast.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

It's how it was reported by a number of outlets; I didn't read it in context with the original interview. Google the quote and you'll find it reported on out of context by about a dozen outelts and how someone reported it to me here, on this forum, by telling me devs wouldnt' have to optimize.

That is interesting reading it in context of the full Eurogramer article; there was no ill intention or lack of intellectual ability here.

Jesus fucking christ this fucking forum over-reacts to everything.

Here see an example of the numerous places reporting it how it was reported to me: https://wccftech.com/cerny-devs-don...y-for-ps5s-variable-clocks-its-all-automatic/

Then why discuss upon topics you haven't checked upon?
Thats one of the reasons why everything is fucked up in the world.
People arguing about stuff they have no idea off and don't even want to check facts/sources.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Then why discuss upon topics you haven't checked upon?
Thats one of the reasons why everything is fucked up in the world.
People arguing about stuff they have no idea off and don't even want to check facts/sources.

How about correct me and I'll say thanks? Because that's what I do when people correct me on the internet.

Instead of turning it into an insult or a conspiracy theory.

And I check facts all the time; usually click-through to full interviews/etc... and when other people have been mislead guess what I do? Kindly correct them without accusing them of having ulterior motives or an intellectual disability.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Given the strength/focus of each console, that analysis/opinion from yesterday about PS5 getting more out of Nanite and XsX getting more out of Lumen seems reasonable, right?

I forgot the guy's channel. RGT, RBT, RBG, something like that?

 

[Agnostic2020]

Given the strength/focus of each console, that analysis/opinion from yesterday about PS5 getting more out of Nanite and XsX getting more out of Lumen seems reasonable, right?

I forgot the guy's channel. RGT, RBT, RBG, something like that?

Yes that what he was alluding To. Textures (nanite)are done better for ps5 due to asset streaming benefits of ps5 and lumen is better on xsx as its a compute related task

 

[Handy Fake]

Yeah I actually think MS got wind of how fast Sony’s storage would be and are scrabbling to close the gap with software. They’re definitely trying not to end up with egg on their face as happened at PS4/xb1 launch when the performance difference became clear.

Not to mention that the Xsex SSD can only direct address 100gb while PS5 can direct address the entire 825gb of their SSD.

I’m still curious if this will cause a potentially significant restriction on developers and offering strong compression is a mitigation for MS.

AAAAAH.

THAT'S what that 100gb number being bandied around meant. I was too embarrassed to ask.
Cheers.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

52 CU vs 36 CU.
Nanite runs faster on XSX. This is an un-disputeable fact.

Gotta say: Good luck running that demo at the same level of detail.

 

[Entroyp]

That guy is like....

Hold on, that’s the DF guy... why is he involved in a such a silly conspiracy theory?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

The less compression the better for assets.

They need more compression to make up for the slower speed. One SSD setup is so fast, they don't need to compress so much. Better lossless in the end. Not to mention Kraken is insanely fast.

Lossy compression means surely PS5 could just stream in lesser quality textures to begin with and end up with largely the same result while maintaining the IO gap?

 

[Thirty7ven]

They seem to be outside of the CU, and vary in amount depending on the card in the PC market.

I’d love further clarity on it, though.

You're absolutely right:

Would love to get more detailed info.

 

[Bryank75]

Hold on, that’s the DF guy... why is he involved in a such a silly conspiracy theory?

He was quick to believe the demo was running on a laptop but then it turned out it was a video running on a laptop...
The specs of the laptop were asked for, not what would it take to run that on a laptop..... so that's where I believe the confusion came from.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I don't know if I understood your question well.

Do you really want to know if PSVR2 will carry that chip? Or if it will be wireless based on it?

In reference to the first, I do not know.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant that probably a camera reading your body movement as a whole, and another camera inside the PSVR2 to track your pupils for efficient sharpening for one spot out of the image without taxing the system with showing the whole image at full quality.

 

[ToadMan]

Is this limited 100GB of directly addressable SSD area actually confirmed, or just armchair deduction? Surely that would put some wear on the drive? Reading won’t, but having to make a copy and write first every time will.

I was trying to understand what “100GB made instantly available” meant, too.
On PS5 the entire drive is made instantly available via a DMAC. Likely with less latency, too. Why wouldn’t Microsoft do the same instead of that complicated and convoluted route?

The reference to 100gb is here

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

The quote is
“ Enter Xbox Velocity Architecture, which features tight integration between hardware and software and is a revolutionary new architecture optimized for streaming of in game assets. This will unlock new capabilities that have never been seen before in console development, allowing 100 GB of game assets to be instantly accessible by the developer.”

I’m not sure what else this could mean apart from a virtual piece of ram that is directly addressable, meaning the rest of the SSD isn’t directly addressable in the same way presumably requiring a file system lookup.

Whether this 100gb is a fixed area of storage or dynamically allocated also isn’t clear.

It could be that 100gb “of game assets” are just allocated when an app starts so each app has a 100gb storage area to work with.

Compare to PS5 where Cerny’s said the entire 825gb can be direct address accessed or use a file system access. On the face of it this seems more flexible but there has to be an area of storage set aside for temporary data so it may be the PS5 has a similar limit we just haven’t been told about yet.

 

[geordiemp]

The less compression the better for assets.

They need more compression to make up for the slower speed. One SSD setup is so fast, they don't need to compress so much. Better lossless in the end. Not to mention Kraken is insanely fast.

B3D discsson is around the compression of mesh and it is not as easy as textures and does not compress so fast or so well unless UE5 thermselves have some fancy solution: Unknown....!

It could be the mesh data or vertices is not compressed at all - that would be funny, no Kracken or BcPack lol

 

[DeepEnigma]

B3D discsson is around the compression of mesh and it is not as easy as textures and does not compress so fast or so well unless UE5 thermselves have some fancy solution: Unknown....!

It could be the mesh data or vertices is not compressed at all - that would be funny, no Kracken or BcPack lol

Either way, the results were fantastic. That IQ was divine, and shows we don't need that native 4K resource hog.

 

[geordiemp]

Either way, the results were fantastic. That IQ was divine, and shows we don't need that native 4K resource hog.

True, the end result worked great.

We just dont know whats needed to get there exactly other than Ps5 did,

 

[Agnostic2020]

Either way, the results were fantastic. That IQ was divine, and shows we don't need that native 4K resource hog.

Don't forget that 8k textures were helping and making the imagine look so pristine not the temporal injection to 4k

 

[Gamernyc78]

DualSense haptics to let you feel rain, weather in game says developer

On the latest episode of Play, Watch, Listen, a podcast hosted by former IGN Editor Alanah Pearce, composer Austin Wintory, game designer and developer Mike Bithell, and voice actor Troy Baker, we&…

www.eggplante.com

This controller is going to be a thing of beauty and innovation.

 

[FeiRR]

I've noticed, I think it's already edited correctly (I think).

The problem is that Google only allows me to translate 5000 characters, and if I don't notice it and keep writing half the text, the content at the end will be erased. So I have to copy and paste and rewrite the missing paragraph and many times I do not use the same words again or I realize that maybe the translation will not be very good and I will rewrite it differently. In any case I think the general idea is understood.

Thank you very much for the warning and praise.

The way to overcome the limit is to write it in a document (like Google Docs) or put it online (Pastebin or similar site) and then give Google Translate a link.

We appreciate your input!

Edit: I hope the back of DS you mention is not paddles. I bought the recently released attachment to DS4 and I can't get used to it. It makes me hold the controller in an uncomfortable way and my muscle memory has a huge problem with utilization. I simply forget about it which doubles the annoyance. Habits are our second nature.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Don't forget that 8k textures were helping and making the imagine look so pristine not the temporal injection to 4k

Exactly my point. Use the resources for more assets and graphical effects. 4K native everything, and the fidelity won't be the same.

The reconstruction techniques are that good now, and getting better combined with AI, etc..

 

[Burrito Bandito]

Yeah I actually think MS got wind of how fast Sony’s storage would be and are scrabbling to close the gap with software. They’re definitely trying not to end up with egg on their face as happened at PS4/xb1 launch when the performance difference became clear.

Not to mention that the Xsex SSD can only direct address 100gb while PS5 can direct address the entire 825gb of their SSD.

I’m still curious if this will cause a potentially significant restriction on developers and offering strong compression is a mitigation for MS.

its mind boggling to me that people actually believe its MS that has done the scrambling to catch the other here...come on now

 

[Thirty7ven]

its mind boggling to me that people actually believe its MS that has done the scrambling to catch the other here...come on now

And what do you believe? The opposite or something else?

 

[Andodalf]

AAAAAH.

THAT'S what that 100gb number being bandied around meant. I was too embarrassed to ask.
Cheers.

It's a pretty misunderstood quote, Xbox wire and DF are the sources for two basically identical quotes, here's DF

"The form factor is cute, the 2.4GB/s of guaranteed throughput is impressive, but it's the software APIs and custom hardware built into the SoC that deliver what Microsoft believes to be a revolution - a new way of using storage to augment memory (an area where no platform holder will be able to deliver a more traditional generational leap). The idea, in basic terms at least, is pretty straightforward - the game package that sits on storage essentially becomes extended memory, allowing 100GB of game assets stored on the SSD to be instantly accessible by the developer. It's a system that Microsoft calls the Velocity Architecture and the SSD itself is just one part of the system."

In context the 100 GB is referring to an individual game's assists in this hypothetical scenario, not any arbitrary limit. The quote simply states that the game in storage acts as extended memory. All the talk of "only 100 gb" is a poor inference based off this

 

[ToadMan]

The long and the short of it is thus:

Xbox: 40x I/O over Xbox One
PlayStation: 100x I/O over PS4

Now we wait to see the games in June and July.

Why stop at ps4/xb1? The first HDD consoles were PS3 and 360 and transfer rates remained the same last gen so we should compare to the PS3/360.

Interestingly enough the PS360 era games were constrained by HDD access times of course so games suffered with those limitations.

Anyway, Xsex is 48 times faster at accessing compressed data than an x360.

So here’s the thing, Xsex is 50 time’s more powerful than an x360. The improvement in storage access times from 360 days matches the improvement in power. Of course x360 was limited by its HDD speed so perhaps that’s why the concern from MS about access times and all this stuff about compression and texture gymnastics.

Anyway for PS5 the picture is a little different - it’s 50 times more powerful than a PS3 (with caveats - the cell was a beast but this is teraflop comparison for gpus) but it’s storage access is 100x faster compared to ps3.


So in summary (using compressed data published figures).

Ps3 -> PS5 50x power, 100x data access
X360 -> Xsex 50x power, 50x data access.

 

[Exodia]

As far as we know Xbox doesn't have the 12 channel controller, co processors, cache scrubbers etc.

How come Sony's SSD has no thermal heatsink to prevent overheating?
And how do you know that XSX SSD doesn't have a DRAM cache? Alot of nvme ssd have that.

 

[Darius87]

AAAAAH.

THAT'S what that 100gb number being bandied around meant. I was too embarrassed to ask.
Cheers.

translated to ms pr speak it would be something like:
our GPU could instantaneous access 825GB of data from SSD and kraken decompresor unit inside IO complex could access multiplier to give unlimited access to data streaming, but we don't like to give exact numbers because we still working on improvements(even our console already in factories) and rather keep them as secret because our competitors have much better numbers.

 

[Mod of War]

How on Earth did I see 3 different changes to your post without it showing you've edited them?

First I saw the PS5 fanmade controller, which I was going to respond to but then that changed to Michael Scott's gif. Then that changed to the current one after I refreshed.

You a mod?

Not a mod. Checked the post, and there are no edits made to it.