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[jimbojim]

A poster mentioned earlier that if they somehow flew out of bounds and managed to crash the machine, it may well drop to a system window showing tech information currently under NDA.
Makes sense.

Or maybe public would laugh at him how bad player he is in demo he had created.

 

[TLZ]

If both XSX and PS5 NA launches have to be delayed, which will suffer most?

Us.

But that won't happen so don't worry.

Hopefully.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

Halp ?!

 

[TLZ]

Light theme rules. #TeamLightThemeForever

 

[TLZ]

Well none of the other Man U supporters are from Manchester either, so your in good company

Lol I shouldn't laugh at this but hey, it was good.

 

[Radical_3d]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

Ehhh… sure! That new Warhammer 40K edition looks promising.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

5D optical data storage (aka ‘Superman memory crystal’) promises exceptional capacity and a long lifespan. If it can be made super cheap with high throughput, it could even find itself in consoles someday:

‘Scientists from the University of Southampton in the UK have created a new data format that encodes information in tiny nanostructures in glass. A standard-sized disc can store around 360 terabytes of data, with an estimated lifespan of up to 13.8 billion years even at temperatures of 190°C.’

https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass (The Verge article from 2016)

 

[Radical_3d]

5D optical data storage (aka ‘Superman memory crystal’) promises exceptional capacity and a long lifespan. If it can be made super cheap with high throughput, it could even find itself in consoles someday:

‘Scientists from the University of Southampton in the UK have created a new data format that encodes information in tiny nanostructures in glass. A standard-sized disc can store around 360 terabytes of data, with an estimated lifespan of up to 13.8 billion years even at temperatures of 190°C.’

https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/16/11018018/5d-data-storage-glass (The Verge article from 2016)

Usually when a tech takes so long to be implemented I loose faith in ever be practical for mass production. I’m still waiting for that graphene future.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Clear your notifications please.

That's an 8 hours (sleep) worth of notifications though, I always clear them up

Shit, I'm still at page 2123, need to hurry up.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

another interview with Scorn dev was posted just now, is asked about next gen consoles a few times

Scorn Interview – Storytelling, Inspirations, Structure, and More

gamingbolt.com

Audio is often an overlooked but extremely important part of any game, and that stands doubly true for horror titles. With Scorn coming to Xbox Series X, how has the console’s hardware allowed you to elevate that particular aspect of the experience?

For horror titles audio is about 50% of the experience. Technology should be in the service of the art, not the other way around. Once certain technology reaches its intended potential, and that happened with audio a long time ago, it becomes much more about skill and ideas than about the newest technology available. The technology just goes to the background. Let me put it this way. I would rather hear sound design by Walter Murch done on a 4 track tape deck and running in stereo on the original Xbox, than an average sound designer’s Dolby whatever work on new state of the art equipment implemented with the newest Xbox Series X all immersive audio engine.

Can you talk about why you’ve decided to launch Scorn as a console exclusive for the Xbox Series X? Is there a chance that the game eventually ends up coming to the PS5 as well?

It’s very simple, good performance of the game is important to us. Series X is very capable hardware that enables parity with the PC version of the game. We can’t discuss any info regarding PlayStation.

What sort of length are you targeting for an average playthrough of Scorn?

For an average player, 8-10 hours.

What resolution and frame rate are you targeting on the Xbox Series X?

4K at 60FPS.

Since the reveal of the PS5 and Xbox Series X’s specs, a lot of comparisons have been made between the GPU speeds of the two consoles’ GPUs, with the PS5 at 10.28 TFLOPS and the Xbox Series X at 12 TFLOPS- but how much of an impact on development do you think that difference will have?

Graphics scale quite well, so while there will be some differences you will have to watch Digital Foundry videos to notice them. If it’s important to you that your preferred hardware wins then the differences will be huge, if you want to play games then not that much.

There is a difference in Zen 2 CPU. The Xbox series X features 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.8GHz, whereas the PS5 features 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5GHz. Your thoughts on this difference?

The most important thing is that we are done with those Jaguar CPUs from current gen. If we are talking direct comparison it will be a minuscule difference.

The PS5 features an incredibly fast SSD with 5.5GB/s read bandwidth. This is faster than anything that is available out there. How can developers can take advantage of this and what will it result to, and how does this compare to Series X’s 2.4GB/s SSD read bandwidth?

For a system to take the full advantage of the next gen CPU/GPUs the amount of data needed to be streamed in and out of memory is pretty big. That’s the main reason why both console manufactures went with the SSDs and a specialized I/O approach. This approach was pretty much a necessity. You could for example get similar results with average SSD speeds and more memory. You would have to preload more game data into memory, but on the other hand your SSD wouldn’t need to fetch that much data every second. When next gen engines start to incorporate these kinds of workflows, some new possibilities will open up in theory. Like having an open world game with high fidelity assets found in smaller scale games, or as they said in the Unreal 5 tech demo, movie quality assets.

What are your thoughts on the Xbox One X’s Velocity architecture and how will it make development easier on it? Additionally, some reports have suggested that the Xbox Series X’s BCPack Texture Compression technique is better than the PS5’s Kraken. What are your thoughts on all this?

People tend to look only at the raw speed numbers of SSDs but that doesn’t tell you the whole story. Let’s say you have an SSD with a real-life performance of 2GB/s. Does that mean that 10GB of game data would be loaded in 5 sec? No, it doesn’t. Getting files off the SSD is only one part of loading the game, there are other process that need to happen as well. That’s where these special hardware and software techniques come in, to speed up all these processes as much as possible. What combination of features and techniques will come on top and by how much is hard to say at the moment.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Usually when a tech takes so long to be implemented I loose faith in ever be practical for mass production. I’m still waiting for that graphene future.

Graphene looks to have many uses, and it may take decades to realize most of them. Graphene for batteries may be close to realization, and there have been advances for mass production:

A graphene roll-out

MIT engineers have developed a scalable manufacturing process that spools out strips of graphene for use in ultrathin membranes.

news.mit.edu

Years ago there were improvements in reducing the cost of femtosecond lasers, a key component used for 5D storage:

Small, inexpensive, and incredibly resilient: A new femtosecond laser for industry

A team at the University of Warsaw, Faculty of Physics has created a laser capable of generating ultrashort pulses of light even under extremely difficult external conditions. This unique combination of precision and resilience is due to the fact that the whole process of generating femtosecond...

phys.org

And Sony has been mass producing high throughput stacked image sensors for their cameras for years.

Regardless, none of this is an argument for 5D storage being ready for the mass market any time soon, but in the next decade?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

another interview with Scorn dev was posted just now, is asked about next gen consoles a few times

Scorn Interview – Storytelling, Inspirations, Structure, and More

gamingbolt.com

Since the reveal of the PS5 and Xbox Series X’s specs, a lot of comparisons have been made between the GPU speeds of the two consoles’ GPUs, with the PS5 at 10.28 TFLOPS and the Xbox Series X at 12 TFLOPS- but how much of an impact on development do you think that difference will have?

Graphics scale quite well, so while there will be some differences you will have to watch Digital Foundry videos to notice them. If it’s important to you that your preferred hardware wins then the differences will be huge, if you want to play games then not that much.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Since the reveal of the PS5 and Xbox Series X’s specs, a lot of comparisons have been made between the GPU speeds of the two consoles’ GPUs, with the PS5 at 10.28 TFLOPS and the Xbox Series X at 12 TFLOPS- but how much of an impact on development do you think that difference will have?

Graphics scale quite well, so while there will be some differences you will have to watch Digital Foundry videos to notice them. If it’s important to you that your preferred hardware wins then the differences will be huge, if you want to play games then not that much.

Some weird contradictions there. I mean if I have to rely on Digital Foundry to spot the differences then the difference can't be big in the first place.

Like for example when I go to 30FPS to 60FPS I immediately notice the difference. But when I go from 1440P to 1800P I don't really notice the difference at all unless Digital Foundry points it out to me.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Some weird contradictions there. I mean if I have to rely on Digital Foundry to spot the differences then the difference can't be big in the first place.

Like for example when I go to 30FPS to 60FPS I immediately notice the difference. But when I go from 1440P to 1800P I don't really notice the difference at all unless Digital Foundry points it out to me.

If it’s important to you that your preferred hardware wins then the differences will be huge, if you want to play games then not that much.


Reads to me like 'If you're a console warrior, then the Digital Foundry differences will be huge'
We all know warriors will point out 3 blades more grass on Series X vs PS5 as a win.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

1.5 GB? 272 MB/s assuming 5.5 seconds. With each new post you are making XSX I/O look slower and slower. Soon it will be around HDD 85-100 MB/s performance .

I'm not sure, is it the sacrificed DRAM-less stunt they went for that added more seek time than needed? Meaning it's probably 2.4GB/s but more latency due to data seek? geordiemp

If so, I can't understand why would they go for DRAM-less.

 

[BGs]

There is a difference in Zen 2 CPU. The Xbox series X features 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.8GHz, whereas the PS5 features 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5GHz...

XSX 3.8 without SMT
PS5 3.5 with SMT

XSX 3.6 with SMT

That's important thing.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If it’s important to you that your preferred hardware wins then the differences will be huge, if you want to play games then not that much.


Reads to me like 'If you're a console warrior, then the Digital Foundry differences will be huge'
We all know warriors will point out 3 blades more grass on Series X vs PS5 as a win.

It's a really weird statement but I agree that it's directed towards the console wars.

My opinion is that if I need a magnifying glass to spot the differences they can't be large.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Dude read some of his past posts. He even talks about giving presentations about Unreal Engine, it's not a troll account.

Man, let me get it straight:

1. You posted a random comment (year 2014) from that anonymous account talking about "he worked on Prey 1 and 2"

and

2. You posted 2 random tweets (year 2017) from the REAL dev talking about Prey.

What that this proves? Lol

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Was this info said or confirmed before?
Alleged PS5 developer commented under a youtube video (link):
825GByte SSD is the useable space but the SSD is 1TB. OS takes up 20-25GByte. Developers can use 60GB space to load assets. Samsung is making the SSD semi conductor.

Sony is using 1 channel per module, so if they wanna go around 1TB they would make them 14-15 channels (962-1,030GB approx.) instead of 12 channels, as this 1 channel per module is critical to what PS5 is achieved (Around 68.7GB per module).

 

[Insane Metal]

XSX 3.8 without SMT
PS5 3.5 with SMT

XSX 3.6 with SMT

That's important thing.

The CPU performance will be pretty much identical. Not much to see there.

 

[CurtBizzy]

The CPU performance will be pretty much identical. Not much to see there.

Does the Xbox Series X depend on a CPU core for the I/O ?

 

[jimbojim]

Scorn Interview – Storytelling, Inspirations, Structure, and More

gamingbolt.com

Can you talk about why you’ve decided to launch Scorn as a console exclusive for the Xbox Series X? Is there a chance that the game eventually ends up coming to the PS5 as well?

It’s very simple, good performance of the game is important to us. Series X is very capable hardware that enables parity with the PC version of the game. We can’t discuss any info regarding PlayStation

So, any info about PS5 means everything about PS5. Dev should correct reporter for question about CPU clock. Something like: "sorry dude, a little correction, 3.5 GHz for PS5 is SMT, so the right comparison would be 3.6 GHz for XSX, not 3.8."
Then he should said that he doesn't know nothing about PS5 SSD because he can’t discuss any info regarding PlayStation. Just like Louise Kirby knows everything about PS5. /s

Yeah, bollocks this interview is.

 

[SlimySnake]

Does the Xbox Series X depend on a CPU core for the I/O ?

It has its own decompression engine in the i/o.

But that's pretty much it.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

It's a really weird statement but I agree that it's directed towards the console wars.

My opinion is that if I need a magnifying glass to spot the differences they can't be large.

The differences are large for console warriors.

Where have you been during 360 vs PS3 'grassgate' issue?

The forums (including this one) blew up at that time Digital Foundry did the analysis on Red Dead 1. See below image. I'd never know the difference if you never told me but its exactly these types of things that forum warriors will probe and dissect to claim as wins for their respective platforms. At the end of the day (as per the developer above) these things are all trivial and only matter to those who want their platforms to 'win'.
Win what exactly you ask? fuck knows. All i know is its nonsense and it stinks up the threads where discussion can take place that focuses on the games and how they play.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The differences are large for console warriors.

Where have you been during 360 vs PS3 'grassgate' issue?

You mean Lens Truth and that Mafia comparison?

I remember that but my opinion on what I consider a big difference still remains unchanged.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

The CPU performance will be pretty much identical. Not much to see there.

That is the point of BGs , it is almost indentical. That, in reallity, is not 3800 v 3500 as OP said.

 

[Insane Metal]

That is the point of @bds, it is almost indentical.

I know! I'm just agreeing and saying my words on it

 

[jimbojim]

It has its own decompression engine in the i/o.

But that's pretty much it.

Does the Xbox Series X depend on a CPU core for the I/O ?

One tiny part of the one core, yes.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

One tiny part of the one core, yes.

Which means the CPU in PS5 is freed up of a lot of responsibility in decompression since decompression is taken care of by a dedicated custom chip right which i also heard is actually quite good at decompressing data?

 

[jimbojim]

Which means the CPU in PS5 is freed up of a lot of responsibility in decompression since decompression is taken care of by a dedicated custom chip right which i also heard is actually quite good at decompressing data?

Well, 0.036 GHz is reserved for that. Maybe it is a lot. LOL

 

[Insane Metal]

Which means the CPU in PS5 is freed up of a lot of responsibility in decompression since its taken care of by a dedicated custom decompression chip right?

Yes. It's not a lot but, yeah. If I could I'd bet the performance difference on those CPU are within 5%. In CPU limited games the performance should be identical.

So we have:

CPU: PS5 = XSX
GPU: XSX +15-20% that of PS5
SSD: PS5 +80-450% that of XSX

Interesting

 

[Games Dean]

CC: Games Dean

Why you do me like this Bo????!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You can take my place! I haven’t even watched those Xbox demos so I’ve got no idea!

You didn't watch the xbox demo? Well, it won me 1 month golden membership and that "GIF/Meme Champion" title of May:

NeoGAF May Gif and Meme Contest *Winner Gets Gold*

www.neogaf.com

The framerate drops in the Minecraft demo was insane and they tried their best not to move around when ray tracing is on. Even the unplayable cutscene was stuttering like hell.

Then again, some people would rather pick a Lego Ferrari F40 over a realistic one.

 

[jimbojim]

You didn't watch the xbox demo? Well, it won me 1 month golden membership and that "GIF/Meme Champion" title of May:

NeoGAF May Gif and Meme Contest *Winner Gets Gold*

www.neogaf.com

The frame drops in the Minecraft demo was insane and they tried their best not to move around when ray tracing is on. Even the unplayable cutscene was stuttering like hell.

Then again, some people would rather pick a Lego Ferrari F40 over a realistic one.

Dude, i like F40

 

[Rikkori]

But when I go from 1440P to 1800P I don't really notice the difference at all unless Digital Foundry points it out to me.

I can 100% spot the difference between 1440p and 1800p in any game except The Divison 2. But the difference won't even be that "big" for the new consoles.

Thing about 1440p on a 4K TV is that it still has a pixely appearance, like you can immediately tell it's gamey. That almost completely fades away at 1800p and has a much different appearance, almost natural/realistic like normal vision. Don't know if I can explain the feeling well.

More obvious in some games than others, I guess it depends a lot on their AA solution. You can see this divide very clearly in Kingdom Come Deliverance for example, though amusingly it's almost impossible to also tell the difference going from 1800p to 4K.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Some weird contradictions there. I mean if I have to rely on Digital Foundry to spot the differences then the difference can't be big in the first place.

Like for example when I go to 30FPS to 60FPS I immediately notice the difference. But when I go from 1440P to 1800P I don't really notice the difference at all unless Digital Foundry points it out to me.

He's poking fun at console warriors.

Saying the actual difference for games/gamers will be minimal.. only console warriors it will be "huge" for. (so they can claim a win, meanwhile if you want to play games.. not so much)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

One tiny part of the one core, yes.

It's only using one tiny part of one core? Isn't the PS5 decompression chip more powerful than 9 zen cores? That's a huge piece of dedicated hardware.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

The CPU performance will be pretty much identical. Not much to see there.

One appears to have significantly more hardware offloading. This is why lining up discrete components up in a table isn’t telling you the whole story.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

One appears to have significantly more hardware offloading. This is why lining up discrete components up in a table isn’t telling you the whole story.

That's why I can't wait to see the XSX running the UE5 demo, if possible. Although, I doubt they'll attempt that, or even allow it to be downloaded and played on XSX.

We are really thirsty for real world action, spec sheets. I'm pretty curious about AC Valhalla on PS5, although I think it's using unoptimized engine for data streaming. The more we go through next gen, the more things will be crystal clear about the capabilities of both.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I can 100% spot the difference between 1440p and 1800p in any game except The Divison 2. But the difference won't even be that "big" for the new consoles.

Thing about 1440p on a 4K TV is that it still has a pixely appearance, like you can immediately tell it's gamey. That almost completely fades away at 1800p and has a much different appearance, almost natural/realistic like normal vision. Don't know if I can explain the feeling well.

More obvious in some games than others, I guess it depends a lot on their AA solution. You can see this divide very clearly in Kingdom Come Deliverance for example, though amusingly it's almost impossible to also tell the difference going from 1800p to 4K.

I definitely don't notice the difference on my screen but then again I game on a PC monitor.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

It's only using one tiny part of one core? Isn't the PS5 decompression chip more powerful than 9 zen cores? That's a huge piece of dedicated hardware.

Yep which is why i don't get the 'one tiny part of the core' comment.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's only using one tiny part of one core? Isn't the PS5 decompression chip more powerful than 9 zen cores? That's a huge piece of dedicated hardware.

Maybe they need such strong decompression hardware to achieve those fast speeds?

Like for example if the SSD speed is alot faster than the decompression chip then the chip itself is a bottle neck.

That's my guess anyways.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yep which is why i don't get the 'one tiny part of the core' comment.

Either the XSX decompression is going to be WAY SLOWER, or he's hugely underestimating the CPU resources that are going to be required.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Maybe they need such strong decompression hardware to achieve those fast speeds?

Like for example if the SSD speed is alot faster than the decompression chip then the chip itself is a bottle neck.

That's my guess anyways.

But even so, the XSX would need the equivalent of like...4 zen cores?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Either the XSX decompression is going to be WAY SLOWER, or he's hugely underestimating the CPU resources that are going to be required.

Or.. Sony just might be exaggerating a little bit lol (or some combination of those things.)

Isn't it also possible MS has a hardware decompression chip? Didn't they specifically cite "hardware decompression"? Why would that be all CPU based?

 

[MasterCornholio]

But even so, the XSX would need the equivalent of like...4 zen cores?

I read somewhere on Gaf that the CPU in the XSX will have to take care of other I/O functions that's not decompression. I believe the PS5s co-processors takes care of those I/O functions.

 

[hemo memo]

The fastest console. The slowest reveal.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

It's only using one tiny part of one core? Isn't the PS5 decompression chip more powerful than 9 zen cores? That's a huge piece of dedicated hardware.

The updated DirectStorage API uses 1/10th of a core for file I/O rather than 2 full cores with the existing API according to Microsoft. In PS5 one of the I/O coprocessors deals with the SSD file I/O.

For the decompression the unit in XSX is said to be the equivalent 3 Zen 2 cores versus 9 Zen 2 cores for PS5's decompression unit according to Cerny.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Or.. Sony just might be exaggerating a little bit lol (or some combination of those things.)

Isn't it also possible MS has a hardware decompression chip? Didn't they specifically cite "hardware decompression"? Why would that be all CPU based?

I don't think he's exaggerating (Cerny), the i/o is quite complex and much more advanced than what's been described by xbox so far: (total of around 11x Zen2 cores)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The updated DirectStorage API uses 1/10th of a core for file I/O rather than 2 full cores with the existing API according to Microsoft. In PS5 one of the I/O coprocessors deals with the SSD file I/O.

For the decompression the unit in XSX is said to be the equivalent 3 Zen 2 cores versus 9 Zen 2 cores for PS5's decompression unit according to Cerny.

Ah thanks, that makes a lot more sense. 3 vs 9 seems reasonable given the speed difference of the drives