sircaw
Banned
Now i know why Sony makes such terrible games like Hzd, uncharted, spider-man, Gow, their spending the whole bloody budget on buying up these developers comments.Another programmer paid by Sony I guess...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Even if MS is able to match all the I/O hardware sony has added with their software APIs, their limit will still be 2.4 gbs. all the velocity architecture is doing is making sure that 2.4 gbps ssd doesnt get bottlenecked. same goes for the PS5 which will always be 5.5 gbps.
thats a 150% difference in i/o. in tflops terms, it would be like if the xbox was 25 rdna 2.0 tflops.
jose4gg
Member
I know, but just one side of the spectrum have seen to understand the actual benefits from an SSD, for the rest of the fans including a lot of PC gamers, SSD just means less load times...
Self High Five
Member
One of the og's in gaming media, Victor Lucas. Anyone into semi classic gaming should check his channel out:
Electric Playground Network - EPN
Since 1995 EP has been covering the videogame industry and its surrounding culture on the web and TV. We've been interviewing game makers, movie makers, TV c...
www.youtube.com
E3 2001!
It is public information from amd that they are using 7nm. You don’t need to trust me just the guys making the actual chips.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Tom Warren out there deleting past tweets calling PS5 a weak 9 tflops console after Matt called him out on fake news reporting, and era found those tweets.
That's sadder than xbox SAD.
That's sadder than xbox SAD.
Too bad ssd’s don’t draw pixels or do calculations.
I thought he originally posted it was 13 TF last year.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
no this was after the cerny reveal. he was peddling the variable clocks bs.
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Chromata
Member
One of the og's in gaming media, Victor Lucas. Anyone into semi classic gaming should check his channel out:
Electric Playground Network - EPN
Since 1995 EP has been covering the videogame industry and its surrounding culture on the web and TV. We've been interviewing game makers, movie makers, TV c...
E3 2001!
Wow, Victor Lucas is still running Electric Playground? I remember watching him ages ago on G4TV.
Total blast from the past.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you literally just had Ed Boon tell you that the ssd and i/o is the most important thing next gen and you go ahead and make a silly post like this anyway. cant even claim ignorance here. its posted on the same page.
Velocity architecture is a buzzword for the whole I/O SSD system as a whole. It doesnt compare to the PS5 SSD I/O systems. Not saying it's bad it's just not as good.
MasterCornholio
Member
But like Ed Boon said being able to stream a huge amount of data quickly can lead to a change in game design. People who think SSDs will only influence the initial loading are making a big mistake.
FranXico
Member
Aye, the Series X I/O is no slouch either. It's a great thing that both consoles have something to that effect, it makes it a viable system design evolution for upcoming PCs.
Crimson_Fate
Member
Well seeing that you actually need data to do calculations or draw pixels and the PS5 can get that data directly to the GPU's 2.5x faster then yea it kind of makes a big difference.
Apollo Helios
Member
Oh that 100gigs instantly is a garbage statement so going by raw numbers PS5 at least doubles the streaming capability of XSX. So in terms of unlocking creativity in fast streaming but then limiting by how much devs can push for, it will be up to devs to prove if the numbers on XSX can cut it.
If what the devs envision for creating game levels that requires a base that is lets say 5GB/s of streaming, they may either cut it down or completely scrub that idea. Cut down numbers of objects etc. can be a way to deal with it if the game is multiplat, but then that introduces past gen controversies like number of leaves of grass in X360 vs PS3. It can also be a cut in resolution or FPS.
For first party games on both (and for next gen exclusives at that) the future is bright though. Level design in SP will be amazing, and when you think about it, they can truly eliminate all level based SP games and make all SP games no-cut steady progression that feels natural.
Take GoW for example. Hiding loading in GoW, although the game is absolutely amazing in managing that during story, is taking away from the experience in the off-story beat sections. Yeah that happens so few times but within the story it is really getting sold, but if you see it outside of story it feels breaking immersion. Greatest thing that game achieved was that you never felt that during story if you follow the main path. The first time you go see the realm travel tree and get introduced to the real travel mechanics, it is given in an introductory way where Freya tells a story. However each time you get back and use that gameplay mechanic, you wait a lot of time during nothing stuck in a circle. Some of those times Mimir tells a story or whatnot if it is related to the story and you are progressing in the main path but if you are traveling above and beyond the story's main path (like farming smoldering embers etc.) then you are taken away from the immersion and you are reminded that you are playing a game with level loading.
Now if you just turn the table and you are instantly there is one thing. Yeah that way is also impressive and all. But what if you weren't limited to that platform for realm shifts. Or rather the writers weren't limited to make and consider that place as the only place that could happen. Instantly you are liberated from technical aspects but only confined with what you write in the story. Kratos could carry a similar looking mini version of it like a sundial and travel between realms. That ability could be no more place bound but object bound for a sequel. Or better yet what if Atreus/Loki had learned to cast a spell that made them travel between realms, enabling even more companion features, and making him ready to become the future of the series. The direction they are going heavily implied something akin to that.
We still think too small for the possibilities the I/O can unlock.
If what the devs envision for creating game levels that requires a base that is lets say 5GB/s of streaming, they may either cut it down or completely scrub that idea. Cut down numbers of objects etc. can be a way to deal with it if the game is multiplat, but then that introduces past gen controversies like number of leaves of grass in X360 vs PS3. It can also be a cut in resolution or FPS.
For first party games on both (and for next gen exclusives at that) the future is bright though. Level design in SP will be amazing, and when you think about it, they can truly eliminate all level based SP games and make all SP games no-cut steady progression that feels natural.
Take GoW for example. Hiding loading in GoW, although the game is absolutely amazing in managing that during story, is taking away from the experience in the off-story beat sections. Yeah that happens so few times but within the story it is really getting sold, but if you see it outside of story it feels breaking immersion. Greatest thing that game achieved was that you never felt that during story if you follow the main path. The first time you go see the realm travel tree and get introduced to the real travel mechanics, it is given in an introductory way where Freya tells a story. However each time you get back and use that gameplay mechanic, you wait a lot of time during nothing stuck in a circle. Some of those times Mimir tells a story or whatnot if it is related to the story and you are progressing in the main path but if you are traveling above and beyond the story's main path (like farming smoldering embers etc.) then you are taken away from the immersion and you are reminded that you are playing a game with level loading.
Now if you just turn the table and you are instantly there is one thing. Yeah that way is also impressive and all. But what if you weren't limited to that platform for realm shifts. Or rather the writers weren't limited to make and consider that place as the only place that could happen. Instantly you are liberated from technical aspects but only confined with what you write in the story. Kratos could carry a similar looking mini version of it like a sundial and travel between realms. That ability could be no more place bound but object bound for a sequel. Or better yet what if Atreus/Loki had learned to cast a spell that made them travel between realms, enabling even more companion features, and making him ready to become the future of the series. The direction they are going heavily implied something akin to that.
We still think too small for the possibilities the I/O can unlock.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I think for the next God of War going through a portal will be similar to what Ratchet and Clank is doing. Basically once you step through a portal there will be a very brief animation to cover the loading and thats about it. This animation should be so brief that it won't interfere with the actual gameplay. This is much better than running around in circles for a long time before you can enter the next area.
I've spent alot of time into he velocity architecture thread so I kind of have an idea on how it works.
But I know that it isn't as good as what Sony has that's already been confirmed. However there's talk about how certain features of the velocity architecture can help Microsoft get closer to Sonys I/O. However I've also read about how there might be some bottlenecking in the XSXs I/O system.
I guess what I mean is that we have to wait and see what the real world performance will be between the two I/O systems.
I'll reiterate that I don't think the XSXs will be better than the PS5s but then again the difference may not be as large as the specifications indicate.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Nope I don't see it. What I see (very very clearly) is that Tom is a Microsoft reporter so whatever he says will be looked at differently compared to what an ex-Playstation engineer says in this topic.
Keywords are Playstation and Microsoft.
Self High Five
Member
Apollo Helios
Member
Yah I know the 'fast travel' arch doors and the circle "realm between realms" runaround can be exactly like you described.
But still we as gamers cannot still think beyond the fast travel or real shifts which are actually the scratch on the surface, what these surface level improvements can unlock is tip of the I/O iceberg for all gaming, not just AAA ones.
Realmshift may even become a gimmick used by many games while great studios will use it to create whole different breed of games.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
If your I/O is the bottleneck you might as well have 3 rtx 2080ti in triple SLI and a 64 core 128 threads cpu... you'll have nothing to render or calculate. Bottlenecks...
I hear tight corridors and long elevator rides are great opportunities to flex some GPU muscle, all those tight shots showing hair physics and such... muah, chef's kiss
Madjako
Member
This is one part I 'm not sure I understand. Does that mean that it will add more power to the GPU? Does that mean that the GPU can deliver 10,3 tflops and that you can add a few flops thanks to the cpu (of course if the cpu isn't working at full potential)?
J_Gamer.exe
Member
People always overlook the active ram part. As mentioned having to store the data for the gameworld in ram that can be potentially used.
The ps5 should have 1 second approx as per the road to ps5.
So if a half (or worse) as slow io had to have double that or more how much ram is that that won't actually be used and is only there in case?
PS5 should have more available to be used and this should help with asset quality.
How much data would an extra second of gameplay be? If you think about it you could do quite a lot in a second or two if driving round night city for example. You could turn right twice and be facing the other way and a whole new part of the city.
With the faster io you only need to load it just before you turn as opposed to a second or two further back meaning more ram for what your looking at now.
Gamerguy84
Member
I was thinking about that as well. Current gen ram has to store an entire level or section, for when its needed. That had to take up a lit of space.
Next gen ram only needs to store whats directly around the player, or the next few seconds. Next gen is going to be powerful.
Next gen ram only needs to store whats directly around the player, or the next few seconds. Next gen is going to be powerful.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
Sony possibly looking at around £100 difference between models. 
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Wraith Phantom
Member
Not once has xbox techsperts talked about bottlenecks. Xbox just has no bottlenecks. Everything just works.Strange There's no tackling of bootlenecks. Strange
Compared to PS who talked bottlenecks.. Based Cerny GDC, The I/O & that Matt guys tweet. Alot of talk about frames & the seconds ,timing needed. Seems PS5 is quitely tackling frame rates with much more control. I don't know man I wonder if there is a whole tech talk in there about frame rate control.
Compared to PS who talked bottlenecks.. Based Cerny GDC, The I/O & that Matt guys tweet. Alot of talk about frames & the seconds ,timing needed. Seems PS5 is quitely tackling frame rates with much more control. I don't know man I wonder if there is a whole tech talk in there about frame rate control.
Thedtrain
Member
Sony possibly looking at around £100 difference between models.
$450 and $350 then? That would be quite appealing
CrysisFreak
Banned
I love that Ratchet flip dodging to the side animation. Always did, always will. So satisfying.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Well we have had a lot of people agree with the specs that there is a big difference. Matt from resetera I think said so and also BG's said...
'The PS5 data management system on the other hand is in practice around 5 times better than that of XSX in the worst case scenario. And about 9 times better than XSX in the best possible scenario for PS5'.
I know we have just had a dev opinion and they say both are almost zero loading on both kits.
'Almost' could mean anything, could be 0.8 on ps5 and 2 on SX whoknows. Could be 1 on both as might not be taxing at all.
However we have to remember that is a last gen game port that was designed for snails in comparison.
The SX io is miles ahead of last gen and PS5 is so far ahead it's crazy.
Chromata
Member
That sounds too appealing, Sony sounded too apprehensive about price in interviews for that to be the case imo. They've been pushing the value narrative over low cost.
I'm guessing $500-$550 at most for disc and $100 less for digital. Even if the $100 cut is steep between the models, they might think it's worth it in the long run.
Classicrockfan
Banned
So is there any truth about the rumor that sony will release the price and release date this month?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Yeah agreed. The split they suggested between the two models is more interesting as it’s less likely to fluctuate.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Those prices are too good to be true when you account for the 20% VAT so the random price example seems to be true. It would make them ~$350 and ~$250 which isn't realistic.
Crimson_Fate
Member
No. the Equivalent would be $299/$399... Now that would be a day 1
MasterCornholio
Member
I kind of doubt that the difference will be that massive.
jose4gg
Member
The difference just in the SSD speed is 2x, so we need to see how much the decompressor and the rest of the setup works, we now know PS5 have oddle texture to battle with Microsoft BCPACK.
I’m not sure about the 5x either, but 2 times at least, completely, based on the numbers and the developers comments saying that Sony basically have one generation in front in that area, I won’t expect less than 2x.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I thought the most it could be is what it's the spec sheets. But it looks like the differences might even be greater.
It's pretty crazy what Sony managed to achieve with their SSD then. I don't know why Microsoft is that far behind with their I/O. This really doesn't make any sense to me.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
$100 price difference is basically necessary. Because if there is only $50 dollar difference, then there is a very high chance that the digital console would die out very quickly.
All-Digital doesn't exist to please customers, it exists to benefit Sony in converting people to buying digital where they don't share profits with a brick and mortar store. So despite the manufacture price difference being less than $20, Sony need to sweeten the deal further to sell an inferior console.
Microsoft basically showed what happened when they tried to sell the SAD, but it was too expensive compared to what the Xbox 1S was really selling for (lower than MSRP).
Wraith Phantom
Member
Cerny told you guys Up to 22GB he was'nt fucking around. As for the Bold MS are not in league of SONY when it it comes to hardware. That simple. And when it comes to gaming they are not at SONY's Level.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Apparently the 3700x is the equivalent if the below is true... I re watched some older DF videos last night .
With him using the older ryzen 1700...
Theres this one where he disables one of the ccx so its basically half as good as it would be and limits it to 3ghz. So 4 core instead of 8...
It still performs pretty damn well.
If you put comments to most newest someone more recently says the consoles basically have a down clocked 3700x, which I hadn't previously looked into myself.
Seems to perform very well and remember it's a pc part and the consoles always get more out of what they have and also the ps5 has many things taken off the CPU and processed elsewhere, maybe even other advances from a future architecture, so I'm expecting great things from next gen.
Xplainin
Banned
A demanding game will also have the same effect as a poorly coded one.
It is what it is.
I'm not trying to say that the GPU is only a 9tflop part, thats obviously bullshit. I have also said that there will be sweet fuck all difference between both versions.
But I'm not sure why people are trying to say there isnt some power difference. There is.
The XSX has a GPU advantage, a CPU advantage and a bandwidth advantage.
However, this advantage is the lowest we have seen between consoles in whenever.
Its all good for both consoles.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Did anyone figure out what this tweet was about?
5nm and the 900 games bit... why 900 what does that relate to?
Seemed an odd thing to come out with 'randomly'....
5nm and the 900 games bit... why 900 what does that relate to?
Seemed an odd thing to come out with 'randomly'....
Xplainin
Banned
Nah, trying hard is the posts I was replying to.
Outside of the slight XSX performance advantage, both the art direction and quality of developer will have far more of an impact on which games look better.
Naughty Dog on the PS5 hardware are going to knock out a far more technical and better looking game than say undead labs will on the XSX.
And as I have said, I'm more interested in what advantage or not we are going to see from the inclusion of things like Machine Learning, Mesh Shading, Geometry Engine, VRS etc compared to the slight GPU advantage.
Xplainin
Banned
Because the whole bottleneck, phat pipe thing is BS.
I could say the PS5 is bottlenecked by its weaker RAM bandwidth compared to the XSX. You could say the XSX is bottlenecks by the SSD.
Reality is neither are bottlenecked.
Both Sony and Microsoft know what a bottleneck is, and they have both designed their system to not have one.
Be happy about that.
jose4gg
Member
This is what I love about Cerny,
having an engineer that have made a lot of actual games over the years really give him an edge on the important things for the future. Back at “the road to the PS5” NO ONE was mentioning the importance of the I/O and all the bottlenecks it has in its current state.
But after he explained the possibilities and people started to realizes the problem of the current architecture in all the devices, consoles, pc, phones...
Now everyone understands why he designed ps5 like he did. It all comes to if Microsoft was able to see the future the same way Cerny was able to.
tryDEATH
Member
It is really becoming tiring and annoying listening developers talk about the SSD and how its going to change game design, when each and every single one of them hasn't as much as shown a snippet anything remotely showcasing what their talking about.
The fact that the SSD component has been basically know since both Sony and MS released their last gen refreshed 3+ years ago, you would have assumed some one out there be it 1st party or 3rd party would have started to develop a game with that in mind so that it can actually be showcased. This goes to both PS and Xbox developers by the way.
Instead we are stuck listening to developers hype up the SSD, which their OWN games aren't utilizing to the effect that they are hyping it up.
I am at the point where I don't want to hear a single word from developers about the "revolutionary" capabilities. When you got something that resembles the "revolutionary" design, scream it from the top of the mountain and show it off until then just stfu already.
The constant teasing and blue balling is so unnecessary right now, because all we have seen and heard thus for officially is the improved loading speed both from PS and Xbox.
The fact that the SSD component has been basically know since both Sony and MS released their last gen refreshed 3+ years ago, you would have assumed some one out there be it 1st party or 3rd party would have started to develop a game with that in mind so that it can actually be showcased. This goes to both PS and Xbox developers by the way.
Instead we are stuck listening to developers hype up the SSD, which their OWN games aren't utilizing to the effect that they are hyping it up.
I am at the point where I don't want to hear a single word from developers about the "revolutionary" capabilities. When you got something that resembles the "revolutionary" design, scream it from the top of the mountain and show it off until then just stfu already.
The constant teasing and blue balling is so unnecessary right now, because all we have seen and heard thus for officially is the improved loading speed both from PS and Xbox.
Ratchet and clank has already shown what the benefits of a SSD can do
MasterCornholio
Member
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MasterCornholio
Member
The mods did say that if an insider just spreads false information to disrupt the forums they will be permanently banned.
If you feel like he's going a little crazy with his leaks I would recommend pointing it out to a mod. I know he's already vetted but they can always verify the information to make sure he's being legitimate here.
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