Support NeoGAF

[longdi]

MS is just getting a head start in Gaas. This is the future of games distribution. It enables smaller developers to take risks. Didn't people said the same things about XBL, why pay to play?

GP won't be $1 a month, the next step will probably be another tens of more dollars.

Look at how office 365 is taking over. Tbh, i rather pay once and use standalone office.

 

[HelpYouFall]

Thank god the Gaf CEO's are here to sort this mess out for me!

 

[Thirty7ven]

With a positive operating margin...

Netflix started from a userbase of 0 and has over 100 million subscribers now.

Gamepass is basically converting an already existing userbase. Considering Xbox Live has like 35 million(?)subscribers, and Gamepass is the deal of the century, along with a userbase that has an underwhelming software attach ratio, 10 million in three years isn’t setting the world on fire. They need a much higher conversion from their already existing userbase, and they desperately need to expand beyond (PC, Mobile).

Gamepass is the best deal in gaming, but it’s such a long way off from being Netflix.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

MS is just getting a head start in Gaas. This is the future of games distribution. It enables smaller developers to take risks. Didn't people said the same things about XBL, why pay to play?

GP won't be $1 a month, the next step will probably be another tens of more dollars.

Look at how office 365 is taking over. Tbh, i rather pay once and use standalone office.

I am still using Office 2007. Paid once, never have to pay again.

 

[iNvid02]

It's embarrassing to see people who were "concerned" about the longevity of gamepass coming up with armchair analysis.

M$ has a fuck ton of cash to use, and intelligent people looking at a 5-10 year plan on how they can compete/win if they are unable to go toe-to-toe with sony on exclusives

 

[joe_zazen]

.

 

[Portugeezer]

It is a lot of value, I can't say I'm surprised. When everyone could play Gears 5 for a dollar that month then you ain't making money from it.

I don't understand the weird GAF obsession with Game Pass profitability. If it provided a value to you, who cares if MS profits from it. If it isn't a viable service to them and remain in whatever parameters they set.. they'll scratch it. They are obviously playing the long game.. just like they were with xbox live.

It matters if the price goes up, but I don't think it will any time soon. If it ever becomes the Netflix of gaming (which is their goal/vision for this) then they're gonna increase the price.

 

[R3claimer117]

Why do you a fear Game Pass so much? It's a great service, one that requires up front cash expenditure for long term gain. Also, he did not say it was losing money, but simply that it wasn't making big profit.

You do understand that they’re just paraphrasing his words to push agendas right? Don’t feed into it it’s non sense the Xbox division as a whole was up some 60 percent due to gamepass. Don’t worry they’ll have you believe everyone is paying a dollar. It helps them sleep at night time to go with that Narrative nothing Microsoft can be good ever! You hear me.

 

[joe_zazen]

.

 

[Nikana]

Isn't that the plan from Movie Pass? They were hoping that with enough subscriptions, they could threaten movie theatres into giving them discount tickets.

Guess what? Movie Pass went bankrupt.


It seems your survival instincts need fine-tuning. One major defence against being conned is to not take a good deal at face value. Find out what is being offered, find out what the other side get out of it, and 100% never assume the other side is "your friend" and "is just trying to be consumer friendly".

Xbox wants to get its Gamepass money back at some point. And since they are not honest about what their final goal is, only a fool would assume there is nothing but charity in all this. If you are not at all suspicous, there is a bridge in London I like to sell you.

Did I say that they dont want to make their money back?

Its a business and its challenging other business models. There is nothing about Game Pass that has been stated, hinted, etc that consumers should be afraid.

And Movie Pass chnaged the industry while going bankrupt. Remember when AMC said that the moviepass subscription model was bad and then directly copied it?

 

[Dnice1]

”not a big profit play for now”

fucking ominous, lol. Lets hope we still have competition in 7 years.

We?

 

[Nikana]

Netflix started from a userbase of 0 and has over 100 million subscribers now.

Gamepass is basically converting an already existing userbase. Considering Xbox Live has like 35 million(?)subscribers, and Gamepass is the deal of the century, along with a userbase that has an underwhelming software attach ratio, 10 million in three years isn’t setting the world on fire. They need a much higher conversion from their already existing userbase, and they desperately need to expand beyond (PC, Mobile).

Gamepass is the best deal in gaming, but it’s such a long way off from being Netflix.

Netflix converted a lot of their subscribers that were on DVD plans. They didnt start at zero.

 

[Neofire]

Greenberg says too much I think.

So telling the truth is too much now?(even though anyone with half a brain cell could tell they weren't making bank on this a long time ago)

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

It's embarrassing to see people who were "concerned" about the longevity of gamepass coming up with armchair analysis.

M$ has a fuck ton of cash to use, and intelligent people looking at a 5-10 year plan on how they can compete/win if they are unable to go toe-to-toe with sony on exclusives

Ms didn't end up with a fuck tonne of cash because they are charitable. The money came from somewhere. And if you assume they are intelligent because they are rich, then explain all their failures with Zune and Windows Phone. It is such a HUGE fallacy to say "rich people are smarter".

I am reminded of Magic Leap, the AR glasses that was supposedly legit only because they were getting millions of dollars of funding. "Rich people can't be wrong", they said. Well, that's what happens with all frauds. You don't defraud the poor because the poor have no money.

 

[joe_zazen]

.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

it end of lifed this may. No security fixes or compat updates. 365 is the future.

Securty fixes? How is anyone suppose to send a virus through a text file? And it still runs on Win 10, I just checked.

 

[Tiamat2san]

Their loss is my gain. Paid up till 2023. So many hours of gaming for pennies. I know 3 people that are paying month to month.

I am.
I haven’t found good deals for gamepass available in France.
If someone has one....

 

[Griffon]

If gamepass in its current form isn't sustainable, what's the plan long term?

DLC riddled GaaS titles? Big price hike? Both?

Devs getting fucked over, just like how Spotify fucks artists.

 

[Three]

MS is just getting a head start in Gaas. This is the future of games distribution. It enables smaller developers to take risks. Didn't people said the same things about XBL, why pay to play?

GP won't be $1 a month, the next step will probably be another tens of more dollars.

Look at how office 365 is taking over. Tbh, i rather pay once and use standalone office.

Office 365 isn't taking over. Office 365 is to stop the bleeding of office users from Google Sheets/docs etc which sarted taking over. Office 365 is the band aid there.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Netflix converted a lot of their subscribers that were on DVD plans. They didnt start at zero.

You’re right. They had less than 10 million costumers, and now have 180 million.

Netflix quickly converted their userbase and quickly expanded it. Neither is happening with gamepass, which at the moment is still a very speculative bet.

 

[joe_zazen]

.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Macros.

& it still runs, but they stopped any support for it in may. I mean, if you are using it for school, no worries. But if you are using it for business, maybe upgade.

Obviously at work I use the work computer, the IT department takes care of it. But a text file is a text file, i can write what i want and email it to work.

 

[Hezekiah]

You do understand that they’re just paraphrasing his words to push agendas right? Don’t feed into it it’s non sense the Xbox division as a whole was up some 60 percent due to gamepass. Don’t worry they’ll have you believe everyone is paying a dollar. It helps them sleep at night time to go with that Narrative nothing Microsoft can be good ever! You hear me.

That's revenue that was up 64%.

And a big part of that was an increase in the number of consoles sold due to the pandemic.

And yet we're told MIcrosoft doesn't care about selling consoles. However my question is, how many non-console owning, ultra-casual gamers are going to sign up to GamePass/X-Cloud to play games on their phone and tablet? I think a lot of people would for $1 a month, but for $15 a month? I personally doubt many will.

 

[TBiddy]

Regarding Netflix,

It took them 4 years to get to 7.7 million subscribers. It took Microsoft 3 years to get to 10 million. It's next to impossible to compare the numbers, since the demographics of the customers are very different, Game Pass is more widespread, the internet is faster etc., but I'd argue that it's very decent numbers from Microsoft.

It could be interesting to see the split between consoles and PC.

 

[Nikana]

You’re right. They had less than 10 million costumers, and now have 180 million.

Netflix quickly converted their userbase and quickly expanded it. Neither is happening with gamepass, which at the moment is still a very speculative bet.

Netflix launched in streaming in 2007 and it took them four years to see any real growth over their DVD business. So you're definition of quickly is subjective.

Its almost like we should stop comparing Netflix to Game Pass in a business sense like many like to here and they don't have any real clue to how the Netflix model works.

 

[replicant-]

So the question that comes naturally is, why the fuck is microsoft doing this?

They don't care about selling consoles and their game pass is a money hog, what's the point of their business?

I don't want to be rude, but it is pretty obvious from a business pov - currently about mindshare and engagement.

Business is not always about immediate profit. New ventures require investment and time to grow. Assume you have heard the phrase - need to speculate to accumulate.

 

[R3claimer117]

for some, it is historical perspective and not wanting the biggest company on earth to engage in anti competitive behaviour leading to rent seeking. We’ll,see how it plays out, but as a non-billionaire, I want competition, hence I don‘t want any one company to win.

So yeah, I wonder what the long term consequences of a trillion dollar corp using market power to sell things under cost, and whether their end game is kill competition or not.


Embrace, extend, extinguish is what giant corporations do when unregulated. Sony and Nintendo are waaay too small and too foreign to do anything like this in gaming.

Shouldn’t the appropriate response to this rather then being negative and hopelessly wanting it to fail even though it’s a successful service that provides gamers value

for some, it is historical perspective and not wanting the biggest company on earth to engage in anti competitive behaviour leading to rent seeking. We’ll,see how it plays out, but as a non-billionaire, I want competition, hence I don‘t want any one company to win.

So yeah, I wonder what the long term consequences of a trillion dollar corp using market power to sell things under cost, and whether their end game is kill competition or not.


Embrace, extend, extinguish is what giant corporations do when unregulated. Sony and Nintendo are waaay too small and too foreign to do anything like this in gaming.

So instead of the appropriate response being that the competition should step up and offer competitive services so we as gamers can win! We instead want the service to fail even though it’s successful and the reason the gaming division was up this quarter for Microsoft because some people’s preferred plastic box doesn’t offer this service. I don’t even understand the logic.

 

[Riven326]

So....

Gamepass makes no money....

Hardware makes no money....

Software makes no money....

What the hell are they doing. No wonder they're having trouble getting games off the ground. Shit.

Yeah, it explains why they're having so much trouble. This is confirmation, but I think most people here understood that giving up to three years of a subscription service away for just $1 isn't a smart way to make money. Honestly, I just don't understand Microsoft anymore. They're a weird company.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Shouldn’t the appropriate response to this rather then being negative and hopelessly wanting it to fail even though it’s a successful service that provides gamers value

Gamepass is not a successful service. Playstation Now is a successful service. Playstation Now is entirely profitable, and the uses know what they are paying. The money gained keep the business running.

Gamepass is a money drain. it isn't a money drain for no reason, it is trying to acheive a goal. A goal that MS had not revealed. Rest assumed that its final form would cause somebody to suffer, either the gamers or the third party publishers. But someone has to pay in the end.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I am paying for multiple sub services a month but I'm not really using the content. If you work full time and have a kid you don't have any damn time!

So it just doesn't appeal to me to have access to multiple new AA experiences each month. With my limited time (like most peeps working full time), I want to choose one quality game of my choice and play it a lot, I dont want several not of my choosing.

 

[Nikana]

Gamepass is not a successful service. Playstation Now is a successful service. Playstation Now is entirely profitable, and the uses know what they are paying. The money gained keep the business running.

Gamepass is a money drain. it isn't a money drain for no reason, it is trying to acheive a goal. A goal that MS had not revealed. Rest assumed that its final form would cause somebody to suffer, either the gamers or the third party publishers. But someone has to pay in the end.

This is the most backwards ass thing I have read on this forum in a long time. Sony has literally adopted the Game Pass price and rotating library of third party games specifically to get more subscribers as well as trying to use their first party games to get more subscribers. If you really think Now is bringing in a ton of profits and not just revenue you are deluded.

 

[Paracelsus]

Gamepass is not a successful service. Playstation Now is a successful service. Playstation Now is entirely profitable, and the uses know what they are paying. The money gained keep the business running.

Gamepass is a money drain. it isn't a money drain for no reason, it is trying to acheive a goal. A goal that MS had not revealed. Rest assumed that its final form would cause somebody to suffer, either the gamers or the third party publishers. But someone has to pay in the end.

Maybe Microsoft is betting long term.

Maybe they believe in a future with no killer applications, where all games are a service. Episodic, subscription-based, possibly both.

In that environment, he who offers the better and wider offer wins.

Maybe Microsoft wants to seize that Gameflix monopoly before Sony does.

 

[Entroyp]

Hardly surprising, but as long as it is 1 dollar who cares.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Maybe Microsoft is betting long term.

Maybe they believe in a future with no killer applications, where all games are a service. Episodic, subscription-based, possibly both.

In that environment, he who offers the better and wider offer wins.

Maybe Microsoft wants to seize that Gameflix monopoly before Sony does.

Well of course, but you are ignoring the fact that the end goal you described is exactly the opposite of "consumer friendly". Which is what i am talking about. MS is wanting to make money selling games that resemble those on smartphones. If you want to play smartphone games on a console? Be my guest. But i am pretty sure that isn't the consumer friendly future the people cheering for gamepass would want.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Netflix launched in streaming in 2007 and it took them four years to see any real growth over their DVD business. So you're definition of quickly is subjective.

Netflix more than doubled its subscriber numbers between 07 and 10.

Microsoft is converting subscribers. But yes it should stop being compared to Netflix because it has no shot at becoming Netflix. I expect in five years time Gamepass and similar models will have become the answer the industry found to the question “how can indie developers make money”.

 

[Great Hair]

Hence why they discontinued the 12 month option for XBLive and are bundle it with gamepass and that other thing for $15/mo or $180.

I wonder, why no one seems to be bothered by this move. Paying $60 for XBL or $180 and gamepass + xcloud? What about those, that only need XBLive? Bad luck fellas, gotta pay $120 every year.

$10/mo
or
$24? every 3 month

 

[PresetError]

That's why we all should root for Xbox to fail. Gamepass is fool's gold. If it succeeds, when Microsoft has millions of people with their games library trapped behind a subscription service, prices go up and monetization gets greedier.

 

[Nikana]

Netflix more than doubled its subscriber numbers between 07 and 10.

Microsoft is converting subscribers. But yes it should stop being compared to Netflix because it has no shot at becoming Netflix.

Netflix was doing the same for the first few years. You couldn't have just a streaming option at first. It wasn't until they removed a lot of the gates that their numbers started to grow. Which saw an explosion of subscribers in I believe it was 2010 (might of been 2011)

Microsoft is hoping to do the same thing with Xcloud over the next few years. It likely will not result in the same explosion of subs like Netflix but also I dont think I have seen anyone try to say GP will be as big as Netflix.

 

[Unknown?]

This was expected but once those $1 3 year subs run out and it's full price how many people will stick around? Probably only the hard-core while many casuals leave.

 

[Fake]

Surprise surprise.

 

[Atrus]

Streaming services are gigantic cash burners. We're talking $10's of billions just to set up a presence. Microsoft's biggest problem is that unlike Netflix, their personal output is low. You need to output a lot of exclusive content to get the service going.

If the majority of what you provide can be instantly offered by competitors like Epic and Steam, then its not going to be viable in the long run.

Additionally, there are also negative implications to GaaS as under this model there is no incentive to create large AAA games unless you can be assured that someone is going to eat the cost through licencing deals. Games are also incentivized to be episodic or 'seasonal' like Telltale games as opposed to be one and done deals.

 

[Quasicat]

Their loss is my gain. Paid up till 2023. So many hours of gaming for pennies. I know 3 people that are paying month to month.

I’m wondering how many people are not taking advantage of the deal. I’m good until early 2023 and will probably pay the normal price once that is over. I have a friend who is paying monthly and told me that the gold conversion is too complicated.
To each their own I suppose.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

In other news, sky's blue.

It's to attract people to their platform duh.

Such a simple answer, yet the reactions in this thread are already embarrassing. I just don't get it.

 

[Humdinger]

Well, that's good to hear him clearly say that. I've heard Xbox guys claim GP is profitable now, which I always found unbelievable. If someone like Greenberg, who is so pro-Xbox that he's not credible, is acknowledging that profitability is not a current reality but something they hope/plan for in the future, at least that should put those statements to rest.

 

[Dnice1]

Losing money upfront is what it takes to get subscriber numbers up in the beginning. Disney is doing the exact same thing with Disney+.

Disney used to make hundreds of millions from Netflix. Now it will spend billions to fight it.

Disney’s three streaming operations will run a loss of $3.9 billion in the company’s 2019 fiscal year, estimates analyst Michael Nathanson. That number will jump to $4.9 billion the next year, with Disney+ accounting for $2.5 billion of that loss; Bernstein analyst Todd Juenger says those numbers will get worse if Disney decides to expand Hulu outside the US, since it will have to spend even more on content. Disney says it will start making money on its streaming businesses by 2024.

Disney used to make hundreds of millions from Netflix. Now it will spend billions to fight it.

The war for the streaming services is getting very expensive.

www.vox.com

 

[LazyParrot]

They don't want to make money right now. They want to grow the service to a point where they can start exerting pressure by demanding more money from members and offer less money to developers. If they ever get there, the money will start rolling in.

 

[mejin]

So, Sony is beating MS and Xbox without losing money.

 

[Gavon West]

GameSpot: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-game-pass-is-not-a-big-moneymaker-right-now-b/1100-6480241/

Jesus! Microsoft makes $120 million a day in profit. Good Lord.

And people are worried about if Gamepass is sustainable??? What the hell for?? Lol

 

[Qaloon]

A lot of arm-chair executives in here projecting doom and gloom without full insight. I won't get into speculating about the health of the Xbox division so I'll take Aaron Greenberg's words at face value.

Microsoft is sitting on $137B as of March, they can afford to burn cash on GamePass for years. I'm more interested in seeing how quickly they can acquire third-party games after their launch cycles before their new studio acquisitions start releasing titles.

 

[bronxct1]

If they keep proving the value of Gamepass when they start to clamp down on the $1 deals those that took advantage of the deal will convert. They need to cast the net as wide as they can and MS can absorb the loss. The long term benefits are huge if they execute. They've done a great job so far.