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[GrayFoxPL]

I can already predict I'm going to be very active in this thread.



Yes, because CDPR is holding staff at point blank range.
It's not like they can quit or go on strike.
No.
They're chained to their desktops.

Let's paint a caricature that can fit in a single catchy phrase.
Anything deeper would hamper the memes.
Please think about the memes.



Finally, someone who gets it.
Don't like it? Talk to management and try to have them hear your point of view.
Didn't work?
Go on strike.
Still failed?
Quit.



We could criminalize stupidity and that would certainly wipe out a number of post around here.

You don't get to decide, you don't get to interfere in voluntary relations between employer and employee. What if employers do want to crunch? I've crunched many times in my life. I knew what I was getting into. I was paid appropriately. I'd do it all over again, thank you.

I don't require your permission or your approval to take decisions that don't concern you and don't affect you in the least and neither should CDPR employees. They do not require the blessing of any gamer before making a professional call that concerns no one but themselves. This applies to both a decision to crunch and a decision to refuse to crunch.

Again, if they don't like it, they can try to negotiate, to persuade, they can go on strike, they can quit, start their own indie studio, go work for the competition, etc.

Their life, their decision.
Not your life and therefore not your decision.

(...)

Jason can go start his studio, where he'll risk his money and run it according to his work ethic.



Ah, yes, Comrade twistedmetal has decided for the whole of mankind what's acceptable and what's not and now the whole of Poland must comply. Even if employees voluntary want to crunch - because, for instance, they'll be compensated, or because they take pride in their work - our Dear Leader twistedmetal in his infinite wisdom and boundless empathy for the whole of Mankind has decreed that his imperial will is law.

If I were an ambitious young CDPR staffer with a career to propel I'd be laughing my ass off at any onscreen attempts to limit my own working schedule against my own will, all done, as usual, in the name of teh most pious empathy for others.

Yes, empathy for me translates into denying me the right to govern my life as I see fit.

Keep that kind of empathy to yourself.

 

[SlicedBread3]

Not ideal, but far from the worst story. (Based on this alone I wouldn't even call it "crunch", just overtime)

I guess the news is that it's CDprojektRed going back on their word.

 

[Lethal01]

Funny as I was about to write that we're looking at another delay here folks.

They're gonna cancel "crunch" after all the criticism and announce the game has been delayed until Spring/Summer 2021 because of the challenges of Covid and not wanting to "crunch" their employees.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

We can only hope that's true.

 

[DavidGzz]

Who was the OG GAFer that shared 911 dispatcher stories? Oh man, I can vividly recall the avatar but can't recall the handle. Good times.

Idk but I have plenty after 12 years of dispatching for 2 counties...

 

[BaneIsPain]

They can’t afford any delay I guess. Just few weeks left, it’ll be worth it.

 

[Traxtech]

Instant hate the second crunch is mentioned lol, or more than the generic 5 day work week.

I've worked 6 days a week for longer than I can remember. If you love your job and the people it's barely a choir... If you don't I guess it would be abit different.

Plus I like money and like nice things, so there's that.

 

[DavidGzz]

Yeah but you sit on your ass answering phone calls all day. It’s different from coding or graphic design.

Actually I ride a recumbent bike for my whole shift every day. We have standup desks, you try sitting down when you give CPR instructions to a mother of a dead 1 year old. I didn't know people at developer studios didn't have a desk job. You serious?

 

[ACESHIGH]

I mean if it's just one month it's fine

 

[hemo memo]

I would have preferred another delay than this.

 

[B-universe]

No, I'd prefer the game never come out at all than have it developed at the expense of people's work/life balance.

The problem - which evidently escapes you - is that your work/life balance is not my work/life balance, which might not be their work/life balance of choice, because, guess what?, work/life balance changes from people to people, as you age and depends on a multitude of personal circumstances, for instance, whether you have three young kids or are still single, etc.

And despite all of this immense variation, you seem to be willing to infringe upon the sacred sovereignty of the employees themselves and their ability to take decisions that concern them but do not concern you.

People been parading as CDPR as a good employer and believing they can never deliver a bad game.

The reports I hear is that they're a highly, highly sought after studio.
Maybe you have some fresh verified insider info you'd like to share?

It all shapes up to be a mediocre game.

Yeah, the game just screams mediocrity!

Plenty of pushbacks on the release date, gameplay mechanics being removed, now extreme crunch.

Crunch is proof of mediocrity?
That's a novel one.

 

[Grinchy]

It is kinda odd how this seems to be one of the only industries where consumers are upset that the producers are working hard to make the inventory.

I never bought milk and wondered how much sleep the farmer got or bought a car and researched whether or not the factory employees worked any overtime.

 

[Lethal01]

Isn’t this standard practice when close to release?

I mean, yea fuck crunch time and all that but it will happen sometimes. Wouldn’t we all preferred for 343i to crunch once in a while for HI to not look like ass?

Absolutely not, I'd prefer they either managed themselves better beforehand or delay the game (which thankfully they did). It being standard practice in so many industries that absolutely don't require it is the issue. If every game took an extra year the gamers themselves would still end up getting a very steady stream of releases.

Everyone brags about how much they crunched and felt fine before they get a tumor or seizure or something at age 45 it's not a fun job letting people know they are going to die, and seeing the people who got lucky and aren't feeling the consequences call those who don't want it pussies makes it worse..

It is kinda odd how this seems to be one of the only industries where consumers are upset that the producers are working hard to make the inventory.

I never bought milk and wondered how much sleep the farmer got or bought a car and researched whether or not the factory employees worked any overtime.

I agree, it's great to see there is an industry with atleast a hint of empathy and sanity.

 

[Nhranaghacon]

waaaaah waaah these people make upwards of 280k a year and the new work crunch is 6 days mandatory at a place where they're expected to work waaah waaah they make so much why make them work waaaaah waaah

bunch of weird non working people.

 

[DavidGzz]

It is kinda odd how this seems to be one of the only industries where consumers are upset that the producers are working hard to make the inventory.

I never bought milk and wondered how much sleep the farmer got or bought a car and researched whether or not the factory employees worked any overtime.

I'm also finding it odd that they think making a plus 1 weapon is harder than handling a police pursuit or delivering CPR instructions to a frantic caller. Must be the reeee posters.

 

[MrS]

You want to work for the biggest game developer in Europe? You gotta make sacrifices. This is one of them. They are remunerated appropriately.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

I don't care, almost every field people do overtime. For some reason people want to throw a big hissy fit when developers have to do it. Don't like it go work in another field.

 

[recursive]

In game development its part and parcel with the job and especially in AAA games, ppl know what they signed on for, please stop being soft.

This is many professional fields really. If kids these days think work is always going to be 40 or less each week they shouldn't be surprised when they keep getting passed up for that sweet promotion. I agree though, too many softies.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Here's a loaded question: How often do gaming journalists do 12-16 hour days pursuing a story to a deadline (as an example)?

All jobs have busy periods requiring OT or crunch. It isn't a unique thing to software or the tech industry.

 

[JLB]

People been parading as CDPR as a good employer and believing they can never deliver a bad game.
It all shapes up to be a mediocre game. Plenty of pushbacks on the release date, gameplay mechanics being removed, now extreme crunch.

What? Where is the evidence that the game is going to be mediocre? I haven`t heard a single person that tried it and said anything bad about it.
You mean that pushbacks on the release date are any indication of bad quality? Theres counteless examples of games that were delayed, under quite stressful environments that end up being masterpieces. See The Last Of Us II. Or GTA V. Or The Witcher 3. You name it.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Actually I ride a recumbent bike for my whole shift every day. We have standup desks, you try sitting down when you give CPR instructions to a mother of a dead 1 year old. I didn't know people at developer studios didn't have a desk job. You serious?

Some people are just assholes. Dispatchers have incredibly hard and stressful jobs.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Do they get paid more during this time?

 

[recursive]

Crazy how much attention crunch gets in the video games industry like it's unique or something

Because it is game "journalists" flexing a 40 over a few weeks crying about it while cashing in their sweet 30k a year.

 

[Spaceman292]

I work 7 days a week as a 911 operator most weeks with everyone getting quarantined. 12 hours a day for the next week as well. I still get my 1.5 hours in the gym on top of that. They'll be ok.

"I've got it slightly worse, therefore there's no problem."

 

[kretos]

and?

 

[Tranquil]

I jump on every opportunity for overtime pay. A mandatory 6th working day means time and a half all day. Easy money.

 

[Lethal01]

Some of you don't live in the real world and it shows.

Try living in the world of medicine where there is tons of crunch, I'm surrounded by doctors disgusted at seeing tons of people dying at 40 and 50 due to obvious glaring issues like bragging about their constant 100 hour work week.

Just because crunch is common doesn't mean it's good or that you are childish to say there really needs to be less.
Tons of terrible things are common in the real world.

Now I don't think this situation is insane, But this stuff always brings out idiots who brag and insist it's childish to be against unhealthy work requirements.

 

[vpance]

Isn’t this standard practice when close to release?

I mean, yea fuck crunch time and all that but it will happen sometimes. Wouldn’t we all preferred for 343i to crunch once in a while for HI to not look like ass?

343i spends half their work hours getting counseling.

 

[Moonjt9]

Waiting for the ps5 upgrade release looking real good right now

 

[DrumNBassDanTTV]

Do they get paid more during this time?

Yes due to some polish laws (many devs don't pay extra)

 

[Night.Ninja]

Me on launch day

 

[isual]

its business. you get paid to do something for the company.

 

[lastmessiah]

waaaaah waaah these people make upwards of 280k a year and the new work crunch is 6 days mandatory at a place where they're expected to work waaah waaah they make so much why make them work waaaaah waaah

bunch of weird non working people.

lol the devs don't make 280k a year wtf? that's like the salary of a top engineer at facebook or google.

 

[junguler]

didn't they promise to do better after that jason schreier article about over-working employees? yeah words doesn't mean much these days.

 

[hussar16]

ok?

 

[B-universe]

Try living in the world of medicine where there is tons of crunch, I'm surround by doctors disgusted at seeing tons of people dying at 40 and 50 due to obvious glaring issues like bragging about their constant 100 hour work week.

Just because crunch is common doesn't mean it's good or that you are childish to say there really needs to be less.
Tons of terrible things are common in the real world.

Yes, but CDPR employees haven't outsourced their moral compass to you, have they? It's great you think crunch needs to go. Eradicate crunch from your life then. Others are not bound by your sense of morality and certainly not bound by your well-meaning notions of what a balanced life looks like.

What if they don't share your sensibilities? What if some actually want to crunch and prove themselves?

So you govern your life according to your values. Let others govern their lives according to their values. I can guarantee CDPR is not sending any of their employees in an official capacity to post here on GAF how Lethal01 should run his professional life.

Please extend the same courtesy to them.

 

[Balducci30]

I don’t get the outrage over crunch, I straight up don’t get it. I don’t know what jobs or fields you people work in where you’re not subjected to a version of “crunch” - but I assume it’s a job or field you hate working in.

 

[Arkam]

Couple months of crunch never hurt anyone (as someone who has walked this walk). Hope the folks get some comp time after. But this is very worrisome about the game. definitely coming in hot. Hope its G2G come launch, cuz I am so ready for this one.

 

[Balducci30]

Wait and they’re getting paid overtime? And it’s only 6 days a week? Gimme a break

 

[fran.fernandez]

Internet be like; Jose in mexico collect potatoes 7 days a week , 20 hour a day.
He’s happy , they will be fine.

 

[SirKicksalot]

lmao imagine being American and not being paid for overtime

 

[Tschumi]

I can't imagine what kind of awesome system they're implementing, months after it was originally due to be released.. must be something pretty awesome

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

I get tons of mandatory OT. Sometimes I hate it and sometimes I don’t care but the reality of the beast is crunch is necessary occasionally.

 

[Lethal01]

Yes, but CDPR employees haven't outsourced their moral compass to you, have they? It's great you think crunch needs to go. Eradicate crunch from your life then. Others are not bound by your sense of morality and certainly not bound by your well-meaning notions of what a balanced life looks like.

What if they don't share your sensibilities? What if some actually want to crunch and prove themselves?

So you govern your life according to your values. Let others govern their lives according to their values. I can guarantee CDPR is not sending any of their employees in an official capacity to post here on GAF how Lethal01 should run his professional life.

Please extend the same courtesy to them.

I'm not talking about the employee's that don't quit or totally want to do it, I'm talking about the employers that allow people to sign up for it. Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying that CDPR is doing something terrible, I would need to hear more details for that. However people use this as a jumping bored to support extreme mandatory crunch for companies that are only doing it to slightly increase profits.

"you think murder is bad, that's great, but it doesn't mean you should go around telling people not to kill the guy who stepped on their toe"

Stopping and pointing out companies being shitty is part of my values. Can't stop them all but happy about when I have.

 

[FukuDaruma]

CDPR, more like CCCP.

They wish...

 

[pr0cs]

ah yes, another evil company mandating 'crunch', how did I know that maroon Jason Shliar would be involved in the drama.
Crunch is part of most software companies and most compensate the developers and artists accordingly, CDPR is no different.

When the game sells like gangbusters and the devs get a nice bonus paycheck come back and tell me how mad they were about the crunch.

 

[OnThePathToWisdom]

They wish...

"To this some overtime was added to meet production quotas"

So basically, the same.

 

[Kenpachii]

I work 24 hours a day every day, i don't get it. Why cant they just work themselves to death like i do. Never understood people having a live and standards and value there free time as they have relationships and kids to see and other tasks to do outside of laboring for your boss all day long.

But for what? so a bunch of neds can play there game 6 months earlier, its very important work mate. It's at the same level of curing cancer. oh wait those people working on that cure for cancer have actual normal working days and hours wtf?

Fucking lol at people defending this shit.

 

[Edgelord79]

“If people knew how hard I worked to get my mastery, it wouldn’t seem so wonderful at all.” — Michelangelo

 

[Laconian Sword]

lol the devs don't make 280k a year wtf? that's like the salary of a top engineer at facebook or google.

Especially not in Poland. Some of you would cry if you saw how much your favourite Eastern European developers make.

 

[B-universe]

I'm not talking about the employee's that don't quit or totally want to do it, I'm talking about the employers that allow people to sign up for it.

"you think murder is bad, that's great, but it doesn't mean you should go around telling people not to kill the guy who stepped on their toe"

Murder is not a voluntary relationship between two parties, is it?
Ah, didn't think so!

On the contrary, an employer/employee relationship is a voluntary agreement and patties can part ways if they change their mind. That you can't acknowledge the fundamental difference between murder and employment is just bizarre beyond belief.

Stopping and pointing out companies being shitty is part of my values.

Knock yourself out.
Mine require me to point out authoritarian attempts to regulate the lives of others under the guise of Mother Theresa levels of empathy.

Can't stop them all but happy about when I have.

There's no question in my mind that when CDPR reads your brilliant posts they'll reconsider. How could anyone resist your argumentation?

You go Tiger.