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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Cracklox
Member
One for the pro mask brigade
Here's a random shot of a crowd from the aussie footy finals over the weekend in Adelaide, South Australia. You can't tell from this shot but 25k went to this game. Look at all those masks!
"Wow, the virus must be going nuts in South Australia with this complete lack of responsibility"
Not really.
Population a bit under 2 million. Never had a mask mandate and the above shows most their aren't too keen on the idea
Here's a random shot of a crowd from the aussie footy finals over the weekend in Adelaide, South Australia. You can't tell from this shot but 25k went to this game. Look at all those masks!
"Wow, the virus must be going nuts in South Australia with this complete lack of responsibility"
Not really.
Population a bit under 2 million. Never had a mask mandate and the above shows most their aren't too keen on the idea
Joe T.
Member
Was Cornwall really that crowded during the summer?
Quebec's still trying to play damage control on the extreme measures they've put in place for the second lock down, treating its audience like complete idiots by saying we have a chance to "break" the second wave if we follow the rules. There is no possibility of that whatsoever given the ramp up in testing and natural course of influenza-like illnesses during this period of the year. I loathe the major media networks here so much.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
It was, and there was much moral panic about it.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
Over 80% of hospitalized coronavirus patients experience neurological symptoms, study finds
Over 80% of hospitalized patients involved in the study experienced some type of neurological symptom.
www.foxnews.com
Nothing we didn't already know, but the % is higher than I expected :<
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
That actually seems low to me. It is extremely common for people who have the flu to experience at least one of those symptoms, usually headaches or dizziness. Every time in my life I've had the flu I know I've had both.Over 80% of hospitalized coronavirus patients experience neurological symptoms, study finds
Over 80% of hospitalized patients involved in the study experienced some type of neurological symptom.
Nothing we didn't already know, but the % is higher than I expected :<
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carlosrox
Banned
So now they're saying the boogeyman virus may have been airborne all this time?
Only took the EXPERTS a whole year to figure out!
I love how the goalposts keep moving!
They should call this the goalpost virus!
Keep finding ways to keep people pumped full of fear!
Only took the EXPERTS a whole year to figure out!
I love how the goalposts keep moving!
They should call this the goalpost virus!
Keep finding ways to keep people pumped full of fear!
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carlosrox
Banned
Well this is the boogeyman virus, everything with it is "could".
You "could" have it and not know! You COULD kill someone's grandma. This could be the end of the world.
prag16
Banned
This. It's easy to make the headline extremely scary when you say "neurological symptoms". That makes people think seizures or Guillian-Barre or encephalopathy or other scary shit. But mild headaches or dizzyness included... okay this isn't news.
Calcium
Banned
They didn't have masks. Checks out.
cryptoadam
Banned
So whats going on in China. Kinda stopped following it since YT stopped putting NTD and China uncensored in me feed.
I mean they really don't have any more cases? And no one has died since mid April?
I mean they really don't have any more cases? And no one has died since mid April?
bigsnack
Member
Maybe this is the tide turning...
www.theguardian.com
Scientists call for Covid herd immunity strategy for young
Critics describe proposal to isolate vulnerable, disabled and older people as ‘grotesque’
www.theguardian.com
diffusionx
Gold Member
Maybe this is the tide turning...
Scientists call for Covid herd immunity strategy for young
Critics describe proposal to isolate vulnerable, disabled and older people as ‘grotesque’
Censored by Big Tech in 3...2...1...
diffusionx
Gold Member
Seriously, how the hell can anyone advocate lockdowns (even partial ones), restrictions, mask mandates, when we have a country that did NONE of that is and is also doing better. The fact that you will not see a single doctor on any form of media or in the government talking about Sweden says all you need to know about the farce that they call science today. It’s just CYA groupthink.
it’s like having a choice between a shit sandwich and a pizza, everyone is eating the shit sandwich, throwing up like crazy, feels like shit, and you just decide to keep chowing down because everyone else is doing it.
it’s like having a choice between a shit sandwich and a pizza, everyone is eating the shit sandwich, throwing up like crazy, feels like shit, and you just decide to keep chowing down because everyone else is doing it.
Taxexemption
Member
It's big corporations and politicians taking advantage of TDS to try to win an election and consolidate power and increase profits while destroying the last few small businesses that somehow managed to survive until now. A lot of people are making a lot of money by prolonging this crisis
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Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
An international group of scientists have signed an open letter supported by 44,000 members of the general public calling for lockdown to be ended in favour of a herd immunity strategy.
Titled the Great Barrington Declaration after the US town where it was written, it says that those who are not vulnerable “should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal” and that maintaining any lockdown policies would cause irreparable harm.
The authors, including the Oxford epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta, wrote: “The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk.”
Titled the Great Barrington Declaration after the US town where it was written, it says that those who are not vulnerable “should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal” and that maintaining any lockdown policies would cause irreparable harm.
The authors, including the Oxford epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta, wrote: “The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk.”
A wonderful discussion.
My favourite quotation: “One third of Americans have pandemic anger... these people don’t understand the pandemic and are in denial... and this is a toxic, toxic group.”
diffusionx
Gold Member
He also says the virus never leaves and never goes away, which I have been saying since the very beginning despite your subtext.
So bottom line we can stay scared and destroy our economy and our civic life and our collective mental health over a virus that quite frankly is not very dangerous or deadly or we can be rational about it. We have never engaged in this insane behavior before, not even for Spanish Flu which was far more deadly and far more dangerous. It makes NO sense.
These new shutdowns in Europe will accomplish nothing except destroy the economy further... just be adults and ride it out like Sweden and come out on the other end.
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You‘re the guy who denied that hospitals in Italy and Spain were over-run when there weren’t lockdowns when there should have been lockdowns.
You really have no grasp of this pandemic.
diffusionx
Gold Member
i have said that the overloaded hospitals in NYC are a myth and fake, which is true, even with that other guy constantly lying about it. I have said that the models grossly overstated hospital resource usage even with a lockdown, which was true. I have said that NYC functioned fine (well fine for NYC) in February with unchecked spread, which is true. I have said the government wasted millions if not billions to make a field hospital and bring in a navy ship that wasn’t used because the shitty models lied, also true.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
And besides, more generally, if hospitals are going to be overloaded, they’re going to be overloaded now or they’re going to be overloaded later. Because, again, lockdowns do not eliminate the virus. It’s just kicking the can down the road. The theory behind the lockdown originally was to manage the case load so the capabilities can be built up. If you get to the can and your hospitals can’t manage the capabilities, then you wasted your time. Not because the surge in cases came (again, that is INEVITABLE), but because you can’t handle it.
Even Sweden introduced restrictions. They banned gatherings greater than 50 people, required table service in bars and restaurants, and closed secondary schools and universities. Looking at the mobility data, visits to workplaces declined by up to 44% at the peak (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-mobility-trends). The idea behind Sweden's policies was not "business as usual" but rather personal responsibility for reducing the spread. That works well in a country with strong social cohesion where adherence to health norms is not a partisan issue.
This is what Tegnell had to say about potentially rising cases in Stockholm:
"We have a discussion with Stockholm about whether we need to introduce measures to reduce the spread of infection. Exactly what that will be, we will come back to in the next few days,"
Reuters | Breaking International News & Views
Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
uk.reuters.com
The whole point about restrictions is that they are only neccessary when R is above 1.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Even Sweden introduced restrictions. They banned gatherings greater than 50 people, required table service in bars and restaurants, and closed secondary schools and universities. Looking at the mobility data, visits to workplaces declined by up to 44% at the peak (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-mobility-trends). The idea behind Sweden's policies was not "business as usual" but rather personal responsibility for reducing the spread. That works well in a country with strong social cohesion where adherence to health norms is not a partisan issue.
This is what Tegnell had to say about potentially rising cases in Stockholm:
"We have a discussion with Stockholm about whether we need to introduce measures to reduce the spread of infection. Exactly what that will be, we will come back to in the next few days,"
Reuters | Breaking International News & Views
Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
The whole point about restrictions is that they are only neccessary when R is above 1.
That article was from September 22... what were the measures? because I have to think if Tegnell got on TV and said, well we have to do all this stuff and act like France and Spain, CNN and BBC and the entire media and global operation would go apeshit with glee... because every day that Sweden is living in relative normalcy is like a giant slap in the face to the lockdown maniacs.
I couldn't find any new measures they implemented that were not out of step with what they have been doing, and the case count has not exploded either. Seems to be more of the same there while in the rest of Europe they're instituting new broad lockdowns and restrictions. But it's also worth discussing that part of what Sweden is doing is not panicking or engaging in hysteria over case counts.
I found a video here:
Sweden Tries to Isolate Covid-19 Cases Without a Lockdown as Infections Surge
Sweden, almost alone in Europe in rejecting a broad lockdown this spring, has introduced new guidelines to curb a surge in coronavirus infections but is sticking to its largely voluntary approach.
www.wsj.com
So basically it seems they're trying to get more people to self isolate and are now giving monetary compensation, but are sticking with the voluntary model, where each household has take personal responsibility.
It seems perfectly sensible to me that if people take the virus seriously you can contain its spread without super oppressive measures. I live in a town called Reading in the UK, with 220,000 people, on the doorstep of London. Yet everything is open and cases have been basically flat since the outbreak and are below the national average despite it being a populated area.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
In a way, much of modern politics has been kicking the can down the road. When the banks exploded in 08 we kicked the can down the road with bailouts rather than letting them go, which created too-big-to-fail and led to the global economy having a lost decade where ripping the plaster off would have probably been more sensible. Meanwhile the EU has been kicking the can down the road with its insolvent members for a good while now, Greece being the most obvious example, just piling on more debt instead of doing anything real about the problem, and kicking the can down the road with the migrant crisis by paying Turkey to host them, and so on.
We have shit politicians.
Even Sweden introduced restrictions. They banned gatherings greater than 50 people, required table service in bars and restaurants, and closed secondary schools and universities. Looking at the mobility data, visits to workplaces declined by up to 44% at the peak (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-mobility-trends). The idea behind Sweden's policies was not "business as usual" but rather personal responsibility for reducing the spread. That works well in a country with strong social cohesion where adherence to health norms is not a partisan issue.
This is what Tegnell had to say about potentially rising cases in Stockholm:
"We have a discussion with Stockholm about whether we need to introduce measures to reduce the spread of infection. Exactly what that will be, we will come back to in the next few days,"
Reuters | Breaking International News & Views
Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
The whole point about restrictions is that they are only neccessary when R is above 1.
DiffusionX is going to push his agenda at all costs. He’ll simply ignore well written, rational, fact based posts like yours.
Maybe, but I still think we should try to argue in good faith rather than impugn other's motives, which in itself creates division.
Euclid's Bendy Water
Banned
Definition of agenda
1 : a list or outline of things to be considered or done agendas of faculty meetings
2 : an underlying often ideological plan or program a political agenda
I wasn't aware diffusion was a politcal party or had any other backing other than an individual man or woman expressing their opinion on matters which are affecting everyone at the moment. Maybe you should respect the fact that were all different in terms of what we think about this farcical situation the world finds itself in(my opinion) , and respectfully agree to disagree on a topic where people are being bombarded with all sorts of different, conflicting information and barely have time to reflect on everything that's going on in the bigger picture.
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Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Let me get this straight, asking people to do what they said they would in March is having an agenda? While lying and suppressing data to extend the misery so that wannabe-authoritarian government officials can gain more power isn't an agenda?
diffusionx
Gold Member
My agenda is to look at this thing in an objective way, with real data, and to weigh the costs and benefits of every single action. No morality plays, no "it's about respect", no accusations of killing granny, no "just wear the mask peasant", just look at the data and what we can do best to handle a new infectious disease, knowing it cannot be avoided and we cannot eradicate it.
The problem i have with the current mainstream narrative of COVID is that it’s totally fake, they lied about how deadly it is, they lied about the danger, they lied about the lockdowns ("15 days to slwo the spread"), they destroyed the economy and people’s’ overall well being over lies. Real people are suffering and cannot feed their children because of their lies, while they continue to get paychecks working at home in sweatpants. There is no discussion on this because all viewpoints that oppose this narrative are banned from social media and news sites/TV.
That’s my agenda.
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Euclid's Bendy Water
Banned
Maybe we should all become BLM protesters or whatever else politically motivated movement is in vouge...This almost guarantee's you immunity from covid..from police action (they'll even bow for you) and government backing...everyone's a winner.
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Joe T.
Member
That's the entire problem: this pandemic is founded on a massive scam. How do we even know what the true R value is when our tests were rushed to market and can't even distinguish between a dead/fragmented virus and a live, infectious one?
A lot of countries are mixing PCR tests with antibody tests, the US included, and there's no real error-checking/confirmation process in place unless suspicion is raised about the lab work. There are literally hundreds of different tests on the market around the world and the pharmaceutical industry is making a killer profit with officials playing up the need to get tested. Does no one see the glaring conflicts of interest at the very center of this pandemic?
This should be common knowledge, but the mainstream media keeps pumping fear and anxiety into the public and spends very little time at all mentioning that important fact about testing. It makes sense because not only does it undercut their profitable narrative but it would also run afoul of big pharma lobbyists and risk bringing this entire house of cards down. Our governments continue making decisions that should weigh very heavily on them as if they're deciding between a steak or a Big Mac for dinner and it shows in the way they present themselves to the public.
This has been a total mess from top to bottom. Sweden only gets my approval because they appear to be handling this with more sanity than much of the rest of the world, placing trust and responsibility in their residents where it belongs. They refused to fall in line on the more contentious measures. Even with measures in place Stockholm's busy streets make it seem like life is normal there, rarely a mask in sight and no aversion to brushing up against strangers. How many other cities that size or larger can say that right now?
Almost everyone here in my corner of Montreal is wearing masks outdoors now, even on empty streets, a big change from the summer months. Testing capacity jumped over 250% in 2-3 weeks and the positive results along with it despite positivity rate remaining around the 1.5% mark. The fearmongers did their thing, the province raised the "alert" level from green to red (no criteria for each color ever spoken) based on those increased tests, not hospitalizations, gave the police more power to enforce their measures and now everyone's living in fear again. It's amazing how so few people can see through this sham.
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prag16
Banned
This is basically what's happening in my area of Connecticut. The majority are now wearing masks when outdoors alone, which didn't become the case until towards late August. The positivity rate was around 0.6% to 0.8% for months until kids started going back to college campuses. Between that and school reopening, positivity rate has crept above 1% for the past couple weeks. They recently now instituted fines for gatherings and lack of mask (before there was no real 'penalty'). Amazing that they are doing this shit now, 6+ months later. There's no way they could have gotten away with it back then. But that Overton Window is on the move. Which was the objective all along.
This shit peaked around the third week of April in CT. There were over 2000 hospitalized for COVID in the state (~3.6 million population). That fell all the way down to the 40-50 range, and now everyone's losing their shit because it's in the 100-120 range for the past week or so. Masks didn't become mandatory until mid-May, and were not truly ubiquitous until June. Yet the masks are somehow the sole reason there aren't bodies stacked to the rafters in every building let alone every hospital. It's all a load of horse shit.
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If you're testing in the same way (whether including historical cases or not), you should still be able see growth from one period to the next.
However in addition, when R is above 1 for an extended period of time, hospital admissions and deaths per day should both be accelerating, with a ~3 week time lag. So we do have if you like, a hard check on how the virus is spreading in the population. Accounting for the massively increased testing, we're at a much lower point on the curve than we were in March, so in some sense we would expect hospitalisations and deaths to be close to base levels. However if deaths per day continue to double, then – even if you don't trust the tests at all – you still have reason to think R is above 1.
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And this is why you’re a threat to the rest of us.
diffusionx
Gold Member
no, it’s the other way around, scared children like you are why we are on the path to ruin with no end in sight. You also claimed I would “simply ignore” that persons post when in reality I responded to it before you did. What a joke.
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Joe T.
Member
I'm 100% behind the idea that hospitalizations/ICUs/deaths should be the leading factor in whether or not to impose restrictions, but early treatment and the reporting there was/is just as broken as our tests where someone dying of unrelated causes gets counted as a covid death if they tested positive weeks/months earlier. How many asymptomatic people in the hospital for other reasons are being counted as covid hospitalizations?
Treatment has improved so much that there are about 80% fewer deaths in the US compared to the spring, but that doesn't appear to have been factored into the equation up here at all. How can I trust a government that's lied by omission and misled the public so much already with giving me an accurate read on hospitalizations when they appear to be enjoying the powers granted to them by the state of emergency?
The mayor of Montreal was just now talking about how the majority of our new cases are in the 18-34 age group and 'that's very concerning.' Except it's not, this is the same deceptive playbook the media used with the southern US states in summer when cases were spiking. It's only concerning when that starts to translate to an increase in older demographics, but over 85% of Quebec's deaths came from long term care facilities which she claimed they now have under good control. There's no logic here.
I’m scared?
I’ve been surrounded by people who were sick with Covid19 and I’ve fed them. The building in which I work was infested with Coronavirus and I watched as 21 people, roughly the same age as my mother (whom I’m looking after at home) died from a virus that, to them, was lethal.
Do you have any idea what it’s like to return home to your 86-year-old mother after you’ve been surrounded by people who are sick and dying from Covid? The paranoia that you’re bringing home a disease to your mother that will kill her is pretty extreme.
Yeah, okay. I’m scared. Whatever, man.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Back to my point. I never said it wasn't dangerous for old people. But the virus isn't going away. We can't shut down our entire society in a futile attempt to escape it. It is not going away. We are stuck with it for the rest of our lives. Blame China, rail about it, get mad, whatever. It's here. Yet we are currently destroying our economy, sending otherwise healthy people into terrible states of mental health, forcing tens of thousands of businesses to close, building up a crazy police state run by tyrants, and introducing terrible uncertainty. We're wasting our time and energy with this isolation, these lockdowns, punishing healthy people for whom this is not a threat.
We have to live with this thing, just as we have with many diseases and illnesses, many of which are deadly to 86 year olds.
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