DeepBreath87
Banned
Oh don’t worry about me. I am a healthcare worker. How do you think I’ve had the 1st dose of the vaccine already?
A few more weeks and I wont have to worry about it any more.
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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
- Start date
- Status
A few more weeks and I wont have to worry about it any more.
CrapSandwich
former Navy SEAL
If there's an RCT that's demonstrated that, I'm all ears. Otherwise, we have a bunch of correlative data that suggest that masks and mask mandates do not curb spread. I can pull up a shit ton of graphs for you from all over the world that demonstrate that. Additionally, the fact that just in the U.S. we've seen phenomenal mask compliance since the Spring wave, yet worse results. The obvious is sitting right in front of us. All you have to do is look. I think the response to this is typically to beg the question and assume "oh but it would be much worse without all those masks." There isn't data to back that up.
Prison Mike
Banned
Im not worried about you believe me.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Really doubt youre a healthcare worker mate
Your attitude seems strange
Most healthcare worker i know are very carefull going outside, always wear mask, promote social distancing, wash the food they bought from groceries etc
You on the other side are the opposite direction
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DeepBreath87
Banned
That’s fine. I can run you through the finer points of mechanical ventilation if it puts your mind at ease. Or you can keep your fantasy about healthcare workers all agreeing with you. Doesn’t matter to me.
Oh? So I guess you don’t need to whine about whether I wear a mask or get covid then. Of course I won’t get covid because I’ll be vaccinated against it.
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Ornlu
Banned
DeepBreath87
Banned
I’m sure that means 300k have had their 2 doses.300K people in the UK
notseqi
Member
It was always about a guy in his early 30s getting Covid. Never about not spreading it any further, yes yes.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I’m not worried about spreading it after I’ve been vaccinated. No vaccines I’m aware of work that way. If they prove that can actually happen, I’ll worry about it. You can worry about it if you want.
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notseqi
Member
I'm trying to think about a job or profession furthest removed from healthcare front line work that could still be called healthcare, prolly something like 'driving past a hospital several times a day'.
You must be breathing different air than anybody else around you. Or your lungs process 100% of what they take in and only release dreams and cinnamon flavour.
DeepBreath87
Banned
Like I said, if you want a quick breakdown of mechanical ventilation or the various different types of equipment we use and why we use them, I’m here for you. I know it breaks your fantasy that healthcare workers aren’t wearing our masks 24/7 while we the public to shelter in place on social media. But we take our masks off all the time at work when we aren’t seeing patients.
It is what it is though. I’ve got about 3 more weeks before my covid concerns are over.
notseqi
Member
Are you being extremely sly in saying that you don't wear a mask when with colleagues in rooms separate from patients?
DeepBreath87
Banned
I’m saying I have seen plenty of healthcare workers take their masks down when in staff rooms. Can you read?
notseqi
Member
I am remembering your stance on masks in public spaces from different threads and this one, from far back. You can't deny that they are doing something, same as you can't deny a lot of people are not wearing them in a space where it would be appropriate to wear them.
Instead of letting the argument drop you come back, 'hurr durr healthcare worker' around a bit until people lose interest or can't fathom why you would refer to mechanical ventilation when expected ventilation is the problem.
I hope everybody who needs it can get the vaccine to have this thread die off and get the usual necrobump from hell in 8 years.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
He knows they work, and he knows conservatives dug their heels too deep, but right now he's fighting the culture war for our rights to keep liberals from telling us what to do. Very honorable.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I’ll ask one more time. What is the point of a vaccine passport of the vaccine does not prevent transmission of the virus?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Our response to the virus spreading was absolutely fucking terrible thanks to all the dithering, procrastination and fear of looking bad... but our vaccine response might actually be one of the best when all is said and done.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
What strikes me as odd about your contributions is that all your claims can be undone with a few minutes googling. There are now many articles from reliable sources that indicate masks help, and there are also articles underlining that scientists don’t know if the Covid vaccine prevents transmission as yet.
Therefore, you’re either a) a moron who can’t use Google (very doubtful) b) a super dedicated troll who knows he’s talking shit, but likes winding people up (quite possible) or c) so far down the right wing rabbit hole that you ignore or disregard any substantiated evidence that doesn’t fit your bizarre world view (eminently possible).
Whatever, I admire your steadfastness.
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notseqi
Member
Letting potentially sick people in, having to front the cost for their treatment and have them possibly die on your soil is a bit of a liability. Medical treatment tourism is a thing, ask Canada.
Why do I need to fork over a fuckton of data to the US if I want to enter the country on a passport I don't need any visa for in over 180 countries? They wanna check if I'm cool.
Joe T.
Member
The advisory on masks has done a complete U-turn, as I pointed out recently. The mask guidance last year was a large-scale scientific study conducted the world over and it has failed to deliver the results you appear to believe were already established. They were not. Face it, the pro-mask crowd is fact-averse because in order to continue justifying them on the general public you have to cherry-pick the data that fits your narrative as opposed to looking at the whole picture.
Link to the World Health Organization .pdf document, updated last month, here. Screen shot below of the most relevant part:
FunkMiller
Gold Member
The advisory on masks has done a complete U-turn, as I pointed out recently. The mask guidance last year was a large-scale scientific study conducted the world over and it has failed to deliver the results you appear to believe were already established. They were not. Face it, the pro-mask crowd is fact-averse because in order to continue justifying them on the general public you have to cherry-pick the data that fits your narrative as opposed to looking at the whole picture.
Link to the World Health Organization .pdf document, updated last month, here. Screen shot below of the most relevant part:
You’re hilarious, mate. Literally in the next paragraph after the one you’ve creatively edited out it states that masks were effective in trials
You can’t just pick out one paragraph of a multi page document!
In fact, if you actually read the whole thing, it clearly makes a scientifically backed case for masks being effective.
Congrats! You torpedoed your own argument
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DeepBreath87
Banned
So a vaccine passport is to prevent medical tourism? That’s what you believe? Because that sounds like grasping at straws because the two ideas contradict each other.
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notseqi
Member
The advisory on masks has done a complete U-turn, as I pointed out recently. The mask guidance last year was a large-scale scientific study conducted the world over and it has failed to deliver the results you appear to believe were already established. They were not. Face it, the pro-mask crowd is fact-averse because in order to continue justifying them on the general public you have to cherry-pick the data that fits your narrative as opposed to looking at the whole picture.
Link to the World Health Organization .pdf document, updated last month, here. Screen shot below of the most relevant part:
'Low' isn't '0'
'There is limited evidence that wearing a medical mask may be beneficial for preventing transmission between healthy individuals sharing households with a sick person or among attendees of mass gatherings'
The no-shit-sherlocks are big in this one.
Why not just read on:
edit: The WHO-statement is an interesting and short read btw, give it a whirl.
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Joe T.
Member
Why not take a look at the case counts around the world before/after mask adoption?
The data is not on your side.
notseqi
Member
It's not the only thing I said, but you pick something to throw shit back at champ. You can have more than thought going on at once, y'know.
Was I the only one seeing people being very belligerent and antagonistic to store staff about not being allowed to enter without a mask, screaming matches errywhere, having gatherings or marches?
Harping on data about mask adoption is only a thing if everybody adopts a mask. To reiterate, a mask doesn't protect you, a mask on everybody else protects you. Similar to a vaccine, less possibility to get it. Quick maffs.
The data is on nobodies side but you want the one fix-all knockout solution, of which there isn't one.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
Who's to say those case counts wouldn't have been significantly higher without people wearing masks? Regardless, as your convenient editing of what you posted earlier shows, you have your agenda. You're deeply rooted in this bizarre anti left, pro right wing conspiracies and you are so embedded and so deluded that I'm not sure you will ever change your outlook, despite evidence right in front of you.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I may have missed it. I reread your post. So it’s just to make sure you’re “cool”? Is that supposed to mean something? We all know what the idea of the vaccine passport is for. I’m going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you’re just playing dumb.
Joe T.
Member
Like I said, fact-averse. The data all around the world is clear as can be: masks not only failed to mitigate the spread, the spread got worse after their adoption. There are places with mask mandates both indoor and out that experienced the same failure.
Sweden, Belarus and Tanzania are some examples you can easily point to. Compare them to other regions where masks were mandated and compliance was above 90%. This is the easiest case to make it's amazing to me you can't see it.
One of the Nordic countries, I believe it was Finland, had mask mandates in only half the country and the rate of cases was no different between the masked and unmasked areas.
How much clearer does this picture need to be for you?
notseqi
Member
'Put in the work we require from you or we don't want you in our country.'
Do you get all your facts from cropped WHO reports? Not asking for 'PROOOFS???' because I hate that but come on man, disconnect the emotions when you read (hopefully at least) semi-reliable sources.
We were doing great with masks until they reopened schools. Who knew that rooms full of kids would get such high infection rates? A ton of countries tried a ton of stuff and every last one of them failed in their unique way. Hope you are researching why they failed.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I love this. So no answer then? Just because they say so? Well why do you think they would say so? Use your brain. Try to do better than whatever that answer was.
Here I will save you the trouble. The reason vaccine passports are may become a thing is because vaccines prevent transmission of the virus. Duh. Otherwise a vaccine passport would serve no purpose. You twisting yourself into a pretzel to find another logical reason for them to exist is amusing though.
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Joe T.
Member
I couldn't be looking at this picture more dispassionately. You have a full year's worth of data from around the world coming from the governments themselves. Some of the data collection sites like OurWorldInData make it extremely easy to compare what's going on with positive cases, deaths and testing numbers and if you have doubts you can very easily pull up the data on your own by heading to the respective government sources. This isn't rocket science.
"We" who was doing great with masks? Some places force students to wear masks, some places don't even have many kids doing in-person learning.
Sweden kept kids in class. Notice how their covid-related deaths started declining April 15th? Isn't that curios given that their cases went up in June? Their cases crashed back down at the start of July. It's not difficult to see what's going on and it has absolutely nothing to do with masks or any of the other mitigation efforts - Sweden was one of the most lax countries in the world.
bigsnack
Member
If every measure and mandate is destined to fail because of some exception, then what is the point? The further we go down the hole the more it seems that it’s for posturing more than anything else. I don’t believe everyone who doesn’t buy into the handling of this pandemic is a right wing conspiracy theorist. I’m a prime example of that honestly.
If DB87 is done with wearing a mask after reducing his risk to basically zero, it’s his choice. He’s not going to be one of those goons invading grocery stores for Facebook likes, he’s just done and I can completely understand it personally. We seem to be very deep into certain groups using the pandemic to judge other people, I’m definitely not a fan of that.
If DB87 is done with wearing a mask after reducing his risk to basically zero, it’s his choice. He’s not going to be one of those goons invading grocery stores for Facebook likes, he’s just done and I can completely understand it personally. We seem to be very deep into certain groups using the pandemic to judge other people, I’m definitely not a fan of that.
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notseqi
Member
You really have a one-track mind.
'Just because they say so' is a reason you gladly accept in a lot of different circumstances. You're not going to need the passport to water your flowers.
Of course it can be there for the reason you mentioned too, there might be a point at which the vaccine passport serves as a 'no-covid-danger'-document. But it's not proven to do so, similarly to the possible side effects it can have.
I gave you the purpose I had in mind for what we can say for now, but you already know more than everybody else.
To add:
"You can be tested every time you cross a border. You cannot be vaccinated every time you cross a border," Thomas Crampton, chief marketing and communications officer for The Commons Project, told CNN Business.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/27/tech/coronavirus-vaccine-passport-apps/index.html
Good on ya for swinging away from the masks.
You are intimately familiar with all other countries customs, holiday schedules, school schedules, festivities, national holidays etc, got it.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I don’t know more than anyone else. I’m just telling you what I’m going to do. You’re feelings on that are why we are having this conversation. You don’t agree with my choice, which is fine. But I’m going to operate on what I think is best.
The bottom line is, I’ll give the 2nd dose 10 days to take effect (it needs about 8) and then I’m good. I’m not playing dress up anymore. I’ll wear one at the job as instructed and that’s it. Unless I am asked to, at which point I’ll be courteous to the person asking. That’s really the end of the discussion.
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notseqi
Member
Yeap.
Heard a lot of reports that if you're feeling shit on the second day it works, looking forward to it.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I’ve been told. The first dose just made my arm sore and a was tired for a day. If I didn’t know I had it, I would’ve chalked it up to not sleeping well. But my understanding is the second dose may knock you down for a day or two. We aren’t supposed to be scheduled to work the day after for that reason.
Joe T.
Member
Don't play that petty game. If we're on the same side then you and I both want the same thing: a return to pre-pandemic normal. Am I wrong about that?
Do you like being forced to wear masks when it's very clear they aren't making a difference and are hurting our kids?
Do you like watching the restaurants, bars, stores, theaters, etc go out of business when there are countries showing they can remain open?
Do you like pissing away your tax dollars to fund these counterproductive measures when they can be infinitely better spent elsewhere, like improving the health care sector/infrastructure/etc?
Stop treating me like an enemy. My posting history should be all the evidence you need to see I'm open to discussion/debate. I'm not trying to get you or anyone else killed by some mysterious new virus, I'm trying to show you that without the ridiculous testing protocol in place we probably wouldn't even know it existed.
The masks, lockdowns and all of that get explained by the deceptive media/governments as working and sometimes it couldn't be more clear that the numbers were already falling before they were implemented - a serious PR mistake that few caught onto.
Does anyone seriously still have a high degree of trust in the mainstream media? Serious question.
notseqi
Member
Do you like being forced to wear masks when it's very clear they aren't making a difference and are hurting our kids?
-I don't mind the mask, it's uncomfortable, I sometimes have to wear it for hours on end during journeys by train which hurts my ears, getting into different masks. I don't mind that 'sacrifice', however small it is, if it does prevent me from spreading. Even if the chance is low. I'm getting too much contact with people via work to not take this seriously
Do you like watching the restaurants, bars, stores, theaters, etc go out of business when there are countries showing they can remain open?
-no, and I think it's wrong. Adults have shown themselves to follow the simple measures; masks inside, distance, quarantine if they're sick.
Do you like pissing away your tax dollars to fund these counterproductive measures when they can be infinitely better spent elsewhere, like improving the health care sector/infrastructure/etc?
-they are acting like they know what to do but they don't and can't/won't admit to it, I still give them props for trying. I'm not giving them props that they are not saying that they are just trying different things
Stop treating me like an enemy. My posting history should be all the evidence you need to see I'm open to discussion/debate. I'm not trying to get you or anyone else killed by some mysterious new virus, I'm trying to show you that without the ridiculous testing protocol in place we probably wouldn't even know it existed.
-we would, it's not the sneezles
The masks, lockdowns and all of that get explained by the deceptive media/governments as working and sometimes it couldn't be more clear that the numbers were already falling before they were implemented - a serious PR mistake that few caught onto.
-we disagree on masks
Does anyone seriously still have a high degree of trust in the mainstream media? Serious question.
-not ever
I am against advocating to shed masks and I see this point trying to get hammered a bit too much here, which is why I chimed in.
I'm not hopeful that we will get through the pandemic with particular grace, but I'm hoping we're able to pull the data of everything we tried at the end and make something of it.
-I don't mind the mask, it's uncomfortable, I sometimes have to wear it for hours on end during journeys by train which hurts my ears, getting into different masks. I don't mind that 'sacrifice', however small it is, if it does prevent me from spreading. Even if the chance is low. I'm getting too much contact with people via work to not take this seriously
Do you like watching the restaurants, bars, stores, theaters, etc go out of business when there are countries showing they can remain open?
-no, and I think it's wrong. Adults have shown themselves to follow the simple measures; masks inside, distance, quarantine if they're sick.
Do you like pissing away your tax dollars to fund these counterproductive measures when they can be infinitely better spent elsewhere, like improving the health care sector/infrastructure/etc?
-they are acting like they know what to do but they don't and can't/won't admit to it, I still give them props for trying. I'm not giving them props that they are not saying that they are just trying different things
Stop treating me like an enemy. My posting history should be all the evidence you need to see I'm open to discussion/debate. I'm not trying to get you or anyone else killed by some mysterious new virus, I'm trying to show you that without the ridiculous testing protocol in place we probably wouldn't even know it existed.
-we would, it's not the sneezles
The masks, lockdowns and all of that get explained by the deceptive media/governments as working and sometimes it couldn't be more clear that the numbers were already falling before they were implemented - a serious PR mistake that few caught onto.
-we disagree on masks
Does anyone seriously still have a high degree of trust in the mainstream media? Serious question.
-not ever
I am against advocating to shed masks and I see this point trying to get hammered a bit too much here, which is why I chimed in.
I'm not hopeful that we will get through the pandemic with particular grace, but I'm hoping we're able to pull the data of everything we tried at the end and make something of it.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
From my observations since February or so masks are mostly useless since people are within 6 feet of each other/close enough to each other to the point it renders them USELESS 99.9999999999999999999% of the time.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Exclusive: Buddy, first dog to test positive for COVID-19 in the U.S., has died
Even though the German shepherd likely had cancer, his health records show how little we know about animals and the coronavirus.
www.nationalgeographic.com
Joe T.
Member
That helps me better understand your position, so thanks for that. You sidestepped the harm done to kids with masks and whether we both wanted the same thing (re: return to pre-pandemic normal). The latter is vital to knowing whether our biases are a factor here. For example, if someone favors the Chinese government's approach and wants that in their country or the world as a whole then they obviously won't want a return to normal.
Cherry-picking is the only way the pro-mask argument works, the big picture does not at all support the argument they're helping from a mitigation perspective among the general public. Cloth and surgical masks are not the same as personally fitted N95s or better and the claim early on that they were not advised because of shortages was a beautiful lie used to keep us divided/distracted.
This is a question I pose to everyone that still believes the mitigation measures are necessary: how do you rationalize them after looking at a country like Tanzania that flat-out stopped testing last May? They didn't get overwhelmed and they've been living quite normally with crowded markets, parties, sporting events, etc. If they can do it why can't the rest of the world? Surely no one believes the herbal cocktail is the reason.
I've been watching a lot of different videos from the country and from a variety of perspectives - lifetime residents, travelers, reporters - and life is more normal there than at any other place in the world from what I can see. The only thing they had to do was refuse the highly flawed PCR tests.
The PCR tests have been used to keep this pandemic alive. Say what you want about the virus - whether you think it's super damaging to a person's health or that it doesn't exist at all - but the case numbers are exaggerated to at least some degree. Can we agree on at least that much?
Edit: Spelling
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notseqi
Member
A qualified 'yes', they will be, even moreso if you take the '...aggravated by [corona virus symptom]'. I however don't believe 'it's just the flu'.
I expect brutal scenes should all measures be dropped. Skeptic about Tansania, their border regions/trade routes are Corona hotbeds.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
I have a theory about Covid. It comes from some doctor experiences that I have come across from friends in the profession and other places. This theory isn't unfounded, or even crazy, though if it turns out being true it will be completely tragic.
My theory is that the strange randomness of Covid severity is linked to Vitamin D levels and THEN age/comorbidities. People who are old, fat, or shut ins generally have low vitamin d levels. People can also be perfectly healthy and also have low vitamin d levels because they do all their exercising inside and don't get enough sun. I have been following a few doctors that swear that mega dosing Vitamin D at the beginning of the infection leads to much better outcomes (though not perfect outcomes). Most ERs are pumping Vitamin D into people even though its likely too late.
Here is where I get to the tragic part of this theory. The absolute best way to get Vitamin D is to go outside and get sun, but sunlight has been demonized for a long time due of the risk of skin cancer. Still even with 10 pounds of sunscreen on you are still getting more vitamin d than if you took it in pill form. So, the summer months should have gotten our bodies ready for the onslaught of covid in the winter right? Not if you were locked down in your home, sheltering in place and told not to go outside during the spring and summer months because all the parks, and other outdoor venues are closed .
You see where the tragedy is? The lockdowns in spring and summer may have created far more Vitamin D deficient people perfect for this virus to get ahold of.
I went to the doctor in October and was shocked to find out I was Vitamin D deficient. I have recently lost a bunch of weight, and was doing a lot of outdoor jogging (in the evening) and other activities. My PCP immediately had me start megadosing Vitamin D to get my levels back up. I am still on the pills as of today.
So that's my theory...that Vitamin D deficiency will eventually be linked to worse outcomes with covid and that the lockdowns led to increased vitamin d deficiency in the populous. A tragic outcome of forcing people indoors.
From Harvard Health
www.medpagetoday.com
The big issue with Vitamin D is that uptake from pill form isn't super hot even while megadosing. So if you get Covid, and are deficient, you are not gonna be able to fix it in time. Mega dosing usually takes 8-12 weeks to get you back to normal levels. People with normal levels are supposed to Megadose when they get a covid diagnosis.
BTW, Vitamin D can fuck your kidneys up if you take too much of it so consult your doctor before doing anything. (See Vitamin D Toxicity)
My theory is that the strange randomness of Covid severity is linked to Vitamin D levels and THEN age/comorbidities. People who are old, fat, or shut ins generally have low vitamin d levels. People can also be perfectly healthy and also have low vitamin d levels because they do all their exercising inside and don't get enough sun. I have been following a few doctors that swear that mega dosing Vitamin D at the beginning of the infection leads to much better outcomes (though not perfect outcomes). Most ERs are pumping Vitamin D into people even though its likely too late.
Here is where I get to the tragic part of this theory. The absolute best way to get Vitamin D is to go outside and get sun, but sunlight has been demonized for a long time due of the risk of skin cancer. Still even with 10 pounds of sunscreen on you are still getting more vitamin d than if you took it in pill form. So, the summer months should have gotten our bodies ready for the onslaught of covid in the winter right? Not if you were locked down in your home, sheltering in place and told not to go outside during the spring and summer months because all the parks, and other outdoor venues are closed .
You see where the tragedy is? The lockdowns in spring and summer may have created far more Vitamin D deficient people perfect for this virus to get ahold of.
I went to the doctor in October and was shocked to find out I was Vitamin D deficient. I have recently lost a bunch of weight, and was doing a lot of outdoor jogging (in the evening) and other activities. My PCP immediately had me start megadosing Vitamin D to get my levels back up. I am still on the pills as of today.
So that's my theory...that Vitamin D deficiency will eventually be linked to worse outcomes with covid and that the lockdowns led to increased vitamin d deficiency in the populous. A tragic outcome of forcing people indoors.
From Harvard Health
Op-Ed: Don't Let COVID-19 Patients Die With Vitamin D Deficiency
We can't wait for perfect evidence
www.medpagetoday.com
The big issue with Vitamin D is that uptake from pill form isn't super hot even while megadosing. So if you get Covid, and are deficient, you are not gonna be able to fix it in time. Mega dosing usually takes 8-12 weeks to get you back to normal levels. People with normal levels are supposed to Megadose when they get a covid diagnosis.
BTW, Vitamin D can fuck your kidneys up if you take too much of it so consult your doctor before doing anything. (See Vitamin D Toxicity)
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