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Microsoft Mesh Mixed Reality, And How It Potentially Demonstrates The Future of VR & AR

Do you see VR/AR becoming a standard feature with 10th-gen consoles?

  • Yes, both Sony and Microsoft

    Votes: 26 25.7%
  • No, both Sony and Microsoft

    Votes: 32 31.7%
  • Yes, but only Sony

    Votes: 29 28.7%
  • Yes, but only Microsoft

    Votes: 5 5.0%
  • No, but only Sony

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • No, but only Microsoft

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • What about Nintendo, dude?

    Votes: 6 5.9%

  • Total voters
    101
  • Poll closed .


https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft...r-to-play-with-others-across-lots-of-devices/

So today it looks like Microsoft revealed their Mesh AR (pseudo-VR as well?) headset; there's absolutely no telling when this will be a mass-commercial product or affordable, but I find the existence itself very interesting. It's a continuation of their Hololens technology but, more importantly, I feel it'll be devices like this which represent the true future of VR and, more specifically, AR, into mainstream electronics over the next decade.

For something like gaming in particular, as good as various VR headsets have been (Oculus Rift 2, HTC Vive, etc.) and upcoming ones that are sure to bring some innovations of their own (PSVR2), one of the bigger flaws of these headsets IMHO (which really is more a limitation of current VR as a whole) is that the headsets essentially cut you off from the reality around you. I understand that immersion is their biggest selling point and part of the immersion is to lose yourself in a virtual world, but I'd say we already spend too much time these days "losing ourselves" in virtual worlds as-is, whether it be gaming, social media, Twitch, Youtube, etc.

While, yes, a future of VR & (in this case moreso) AR-centered around devices like Mesh and whatever its contemporaries end up being, does to some level also invite losing oneself into the virtual abyss, at least these type of technologies can allow us to still engage in person-to-person direct contact, and still enjoy simultaneous existence and acknowledgement in the physical world we exist in, using the virtual technology to heighten its presence and add to it, rather than simply needing to trade one for the other. And again, in terms of gaming, this can open up some fantastic design opportunities; when paired with technologies such as the cloud (specifically, services on the cloud that provide real-time data on various global systems such as traffic and weather, or even astrological data), I believe genuinely new and creative types of game design could be tapped into, paired with design templates devs have already mastered through more traditional methods.

So, I guess it's just a long-winded way of me saying that I feel things like Mesh are a glimpse into the fuller future of what truly refined VR & AR technology can do for gaming. Maybe in bits and pieces this gen, but by 10th-gen we could see some really special things. Speaking of 10th-gen, I've been doing a lot of thinking on it in my spare time, lot of back-and-forth discussions etc. I personally think VR/AR, more specifically the type of what we see with something like Mesh (though its implementation alone I would not say is enough; preferably something of a marriage between technologies like Mesh with technologies like PSVR/Oculus/Vive etc. would be best and I think potentially it's doable), will become a cornerstone of standard inclusion with 10th-gen gaming, no longer relegated to simply peripherals that fragment the user-base.

But I'd like to see how others feel about growth of VR & AR over the next several years and what role you think it'll play for 10th-gen systems, if any. In what ways do you think it still needs to grow and improve, etc. Let's talk it up.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
I'm all for it. The more the better.

MS had a good idea with Kinect. And for the longest I was waiting for a Kinect XBO bundle before they finally gave up on it for XBO. AR, VR has a future in gaming and outside gaming.
 
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Timmeehh

Neo Member
I'm a little bit confused. Is this a new headset? Or just a new platform that works with both VR headsets and the HoloLens?

I wrote my thesis about developing for HoloLens a few years ago and it had great potential back then, but was hold back by flaws of the first version. I'm happy Microsoft is still working on it because I really believe in a few years with technology developing fast this could be 'the next big thing'. Good to see they are still believing in it.
 

Zeeed

Member
I was sold on MS HoloLens back in the days when it was first announced.

When I saw examples of using the Hololens to have an artificial 80 inch screen TV(or whatever size) in your living room (or anywhere for that matter), I was sold.

I didn't care about those artificial reality gaming, but just the everyday convenience of projecting something that you did not need to clutter your household when you don't need it. Using the HoloLens to use cad programs/paint programs.

I was disappointed when MS seems to have stopped advertising it publicly. I knew they would be working on it internally, there is no way they would shelf this. there is just so many future applications you can use with it.

I'm personally more interested in AR than VR.
 
I was sold on MS HoloLens back in the days when it was first announced.

When I saw examples of using the Hololens to have an artificial 80 inch screen TV(or whatever size) in your living room (or anywhere for that matter), I was sold.

I didn't care about those artificial reality gaming, but just the everyday convenience of projecting something that you did not need to clutter your household when you don't need it. Using the HoloLens to use cad programs/paint programs.

I was disappointed when MS seems to have stopped advertising it publicly. I knew they would be working on it internally, there is no way they would shelf this. there is just so many future applications you can use with it.

I'm personally more interested in AR than VR.
The problem with AR is that is still at least 10 years away from being really good and affordable at the same time, while VR is already kinda getting there (Quest 2 is really neat).
 

BabyYoda

Banned
Interesting, although it's not clear at all what it is based on the video...

On a side note, Microsoft's marketing is so awful nowadays, they think it gets them brownie points ;) But all it does is appease the hate mob for another day. Diversity to these people means no white guys...
 

wolffy71

Banned
Interesting, although it's not clear at all what it is based on the video...

On a side note, Microsoft's marketing is so awful nowadays, they think it gets them brownie points ;) But all it does is appease the hate mob for another day. Diversity to these people means no white guys...
Do you actually watch these and count the white guys? Lol come on white guys arent under represented , just let it go.
 
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wolffy71

Banned
This a great idea for collaboration tool, socially interaction with family and friends, telemedicine, education, but it's not really about gaming.

Tho those examples where the guy grabs the hologram of a blue print and spins it are cool, how long until that actually works well? This still seems a bit away.
 
I was sold on MS HoloLens back in the days when it was first announced.
I had a dev kit.

The technology was cool but it was heavy, uncomfortable, and the resolution wasn't that great.

Also, the technology was almost immediately surpassed by AR on cell phones.

5-6 years later it just looks like the headset has gotten slightly smaller and lighter and the resolution is probably a bit better.

Again, the technology is cool but for a wearable like this to be successful they are really going to need to work on the form factor and weight.
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
I tried the hololens demo at a microsoft store and while it was impressive, I wasn't surprised when they didn't deliver on their gaming announcements related to it. I would be shocked if they did pursue a gaming application for the next iteration of their AR tech based on the high cost alone. One of the things that helped kinect was it's relatively inexpensive price of ~$100. Compare that with hololens at ~$3000. If they did make a gaming version it would have to be dumbed down to the point it could complete in the $300 price range (Quest & PSVR) I would think and even then it wouldn't support the same applications because it is AR not VR, so you couldn't rely on existing software ports to build out a library of software quickly.
 
I'm a little bit confused. Is this a new headset? Or just a new platform that works with both VR headsets and the HoloLens?

I wrote my thesis about developing for HoloLens a few years ago and it had great potential back then, but was hold back by flaws of the first version. I'm happy Microsoft is still working on it because I really believe in a few years with technology developing fast this could be 'the next big thing'. Good to see they are still believing in it.
Believe it's a new headset. Read a little of the article on their site that refers to it as such, but it's also technically a new platform as it's powered through their cloud services.

Hololens was definitely interesting, but like you said, had a lot of design issues holding it back. All that said, it's nice to see them pushing forward with the concept, that's the only way you can get these things better. Just like Sony with PSVR; 1st gen was pretty good though many limitations, the 2nd generation should iron a lot of those issues out and advance the concept.

I'm particularly interested to see if Microsoft has plans for anything Mesh-related on the Series consoles; they have to support VR and/or AR at some point this generation in an official capacity, this might be a glimpse into some of those plans.

I'm all for it. The more the better.

MS had a good idea with Kinect. And for the longest I was waiting for a Kinect XBO bundle before they finally gave up on it for XBO. AR, VR has a future in gaming and outside gaming.
Yeah I feel they should reintroduce Kinect in some fashion if they haven't already. Or at least aspects of its technology if not necessarily all of it.

The voice stuff for example, no need to really include that anymore. It opens up the possibility for them to hone in on specific things it could be better at to serve gaming specifically, though, and that's always a plus.

I'm personally more interested in AR than VR.
Same, though the AR I want would ideally still provide VR-like fidelity. I'm talking stuff like the game knowing your position in room-scale, proximity, viewing angle and stuff like that. The game then rendering out the correct items through your visor, but having means of also being capable of those rendered objects knowing the sense of scale and presence of real-world items, stuff like that.

Such a level of fidelity at affordable prices (wireless is a requirement) is still probably a few years away however.
 

BabyYoda

Banned
Do you actually watch these and count the white guys? Lol come on white guys arent under represented , just let it go.
There's no one to count. Yes I notice it, only because there has been a massive onslaught against straight white men of late, I never noticed that kinda stuff before this far left, sjw, blm, woke nonsense, same with the fake feminists. If you don't believe me, go though Microsoft's recent marketing, heck go through most marketing and tell me they are not going out of their way, falling over each other to appear to love black people, it's so fake and disingenuous, if I was black, I would be offended.

Then there's the trying to appeal to China, money is more important to these companies than freedom apparently. I have to call it out, I won't stop! I love diversity, but again, to big tech, big entertainment, big finance, big government etc, that means no straight white men, or if you have them, they must be cucks or bad fathers and emasculated in some way. Coke said it best "Try to be less white". They are all bastards and I don't use that word lightly!

This video wouldn't exist if I was imagining it all:



It's also funny which helps!
 
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I tried the hololens demo at a microsoft store and while it was impressive, I wasn't surprised when they didn't deliver on their gaming announcements related to it. I would be shocked if they did pursue a gaming application for the next iteration of their AR tech based on the high cost alone. One of the things that helped kinect was it's relatively inexpensive price of ~$100. Compare that with hololens at ~$3000. If they did make a gaming version it would have to be dumbed down to the point it could complete in the $300 price range (Quest & PSVR) I would think and even then it wouldn't support the same applications because it is AR not VR, so you couldn't rely on existing software ports to build out a library of software quickly.

It was just a pointless reaction because Sony announced their vr
 

reksveks

Member
Ignoring the stupid 'lack of white guys at Microsoft' sub-thread here.

Consumer AR is probably a good 3 years off before becoming anything close to mainstream. There is a reason that this came out during Microsoft Ignite, their vision for AR is still business focused.

In terms of VR support of xbox series console, I think they will just enable and certify Windows Mixed Reality headsets and users will probably have a choice, maybe that's a hope though.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Hololens is cool, but it needs to basically be the same price as an Oculus Quest 2, have 360 degree field of view coverage, and have 3+ hour battery life to really be a viable consumer product. I feel like we are many, many years away from that version if it ever comes.
 

Mmnow

Member
I like the idea of VR more than I like VR.

The tech just isn't there yet. The games aren't there either, really. We've come close a few times, and I've heard great things about Alyx. Most games are either experience based and so are short by design, Escape Room style titles (either hidden or obvious) or just not that good, some equally as good or better without the expensive headset.

And, yes, I'm not speaking from a not particularly well-versed position. But as someone who wants to spend on this stuff, nothing has ever made me rush out and buy it.

My point here is that I do truly believe in a future where AR and VR are commonplace. I love the idea of concerts and theatre from the comfort of my own home. I like the social links VR would allow. But hopes and dreams, and fancy concepts aren't going to get us there.

One day the devices will get cheap enough and useful enough that they're worth buying. Until then, everything else is just talk.
 

DustQueen

Banned
This all is child's play cos u can always drop some huge amount of acid, turn on any videogame on a regular TV n have VR experience of a lifetime at no extra cost.
 

RGB'D

Member
I can’t use VR because of motion sickness so I’m interested to see where mixed reality goes. If it’s affordable it could be a cool alternative to board games for families.
My wife had the same problem. She can't tolerate anything but 144hz and wider field of vision on Valve Index made it a awesome experience for her (our first experience was on her brother's Rift and I loved it but she lasted maybe a minute or two). She can't play anything less than 144 or it messes with her vestibular system and she gets really bad motion sickness.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Aye can't wait to lose myself in my own living room shooting stupid looking shit on a postage stamp sized screen on my $1000 raybans...
 

MarlboroRed

Member
I mean, it's a trailer made to sell me on the product (or concept), I get it. But taking a step back for a second, man - what a time to be alive.
 
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Three

Member
Is this the same shit MS showed us about AR around 2015? But now it's a 2021 version?
Yes and no, there is literally no new hardware here, it is just them trying to promote a software platform for sharing data (like spatial maps, users, billing, etc).

 
AR is to replace the phone, including to play board games with your uncle across the country; VR is to fully immerse yourself in the digital world of a great game.

this decade will be very transformative in the way we interact with devices and games. Fun while only games.

the far future of mixing, enhancing or completely replacing our reality with something else will be weirder than anything scifi imagines...
 
Ok, I watched it now. Microsoft, like all others, want a piece of the next computing platform which will be a part of everyday life wether you like it or not.

But I honestly don't see anything innovative here. Playing and collaborating virtually with people far away or in the same physical room? Done in Rec Room and many others in VR - heck, I was drawing with my daughter in same virtual drawing board and though she was in the same room, she was a few feet away and still virtually close to me.

the demos are also as vaporware as hololens Minecraft way back then.

Alex Kipman of course is the father of Kinect. You see, both psvr and hololens trace back to those tech from the last days of PS3 generation. And both were created to fight the Wii, the original console to bring motion tracking to the scene. Where's Nintendo now? Still messing with cardboard?
 
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The tech just isn't there yet. The games aren't there either, really. We've come close a few times, and I've heard great things about Alyx.

Lol

I've heard...

come back after you've actually played. Because I used to be as much of an ignorant hater as you.

it's a total game and perspective changer. The biggest nextgen jump forward since 2D to 3D in the mid 90s.

but I agree with you in one thing: it needs more games. Games made for VR 90% suck and die in obscurity because limited tech demos by indies. I value far more big ports like Skyrim, NMS or Hitman - a steady flow of high profile ports like this is what VR needs to break out of its niche bubble.
 

Rudius

Member
I just want regular full immersion VR. If they don't release an accessible headset, they could perhaps let us have Flight Simulator VR on PSVR2? I know it's asking too much, but they released Minecraft for PSVR.
 
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To be honest I don't really get it. None of those AR example situations make any sense.

The entire presentation was designed purely to tug at your emotions. "That longing inside you to connect with others, brought to you with our new tech. You're so educated and important. You'll be making big money, living in your nice house while leisurely collaborating on important problems that can't be solved without you."

But then the examples shown are just fluff. Like two women touching at some floating globe. The music making you think maybe they're hard at work solving the world's problems but really they're not doing anything.

Or some architects "collaborating" on a table. But what happens if everyone isn't standing in a room with a table of the same size?

Or that little girl with some arm problem.You really wanna see a doctor like that? Not physically present? I suppose if you CAN'T get to a doctor then that's better than nothing ... but it's not the GOAL. And how is that example not just as easily achieved with a simple ZOOM call? Why is she wearing that headset at all? It doesn't make sense.

What is there about any of this that isn't done BETTER in VR?

Or in that other Pokemon video - Is that REALLY what you want to do? And how likely is that? So you decide to take a walk in the park but for some reason choose to do it with this big ugly headset on. You choose to play Pokemon and just by chance encounter someone else wearing the same headset playing Pokemon?

Why does everyone else get to see this cool sci-fi/hologram of your entire body ... just because you put on a headset? How does that work exactly? That's kind of the coolest part of this presentation and it's bullshit and not real.

Why don't they show REALISTIC examples of what you might actually do with AR?
 
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kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
AR would still be behind the curve with regard to VR headsets because all of the them already have external facing cameras and could do some form of AR right? Even if the Hololens is far ahead the competition with regard to AR the value proposition is even more questionable with that perspective. The Hololens would do one thing much better at an extreme cost but every other headset could conceivably do the same things.
 

kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
But then the examples shown are just fluff. Like two women touching at some floating globe. The music making you think maybe they're hard at work solving the world's problems but really they're not doing anything.

Why don't they show REALISTIC examples of what you might actually do with AR?
I've also noticed this is really obvious in all advertising where they are showing people doing "stem" jobs like they are all effing heros doing nothing but starting at vials of liquids or drawing a shape on a screen.

Advertising in general hardly ever shows real people doing real jobs ¯\_(ツ)_/-

I do remember some original Hololens adverts showing an engineer looking at a rendered CAD design next to other machined parts which would actually be kinda cool and useful. The other thing that my architect buddy said would be nice is to show clients what the building would look like in 3d space at the actual site. So you could take a pseudo tour before breaking ground.
 
AR has about as much potential for gaming as motion controls. Seriously, how many Pokemon go do you need?


VR on the other hand, I don't see myself having much use for it, but I can see it being used by a sizeable amount of people for a great variety of games...
 

OnionSnake

Banned
Quest 2 has an experimental feature where if you tap on the side twice it shows you a black and white image feed of what the camera sees. Meant to help if you step on a cat or whatever, pretty cool
 
I like the idea of VR more than I like VR.

The tech just isn't there yet. The games aren't there either, really. We've come close a few times, and I've heard great things about Alyx. Most games are either experience based and so are short by design, Escape Room style titles (either hidden or obvious) or just not that good, some equally as good or better without the expensive headset.

And, yes, I'm not speaking from a not particularly well-versed position. But as someone who wants to spend on this stuff, nothing has ever made me rush out and buy it.

My point here is that I do truly believe in a future where AR and VR are commonplace. I love the idea of concerts and theatre from the comfort of my own home. I like the social links VR would allow. But hopes and dreams, and fancy concepts aren't going to get us there.

One day the devices will get cheap enough and useful enough that they're worth buying. Until then, everything else is just talk.
Have you seen the porn tho
 

Romulus

Member
People trying to convince themselves that "VR isnt there" haven't used high end VR. No one coming with their fake agenda will convince me otherwise. I've seen the reactions first hand its 100% blown the fuck away. Flight sims, shooters, racing, anything first-person really is simply superior in VR no question.
 
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mxbison

Member
Have you seen the porn tho

Yeah VR porn is very....impressive. I'm surprised that hasn't blown up yet.

Guess it has a lot to do with comfort too. On PSVR you needed to download videos, put them on a usb stick, and then download an App, which they also put behind a paywall later.
Quest makes it a little easier but for good quality you kinda still have to pay/pirate and download the stuff to your device.

I also think the big breakthrough will be AR or some AR/VR mix.
People walking through the streets while seeing their friends and social media feeds through the glasses and that kind of stuff.
 
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