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Did I “get gud” at Dark Souls?

Maddux4164

Member
Good stuff man.

I occasionally get the urge to finish my playthrough. For some reason I dropped the game after beating O&S (took me 3 trys, had to mention it haha) and whenever I try to get into it again I'm totally out of the experience; don't know what happend or where to go, etc. So instead I just feel like doing a fresh run. Then I think about going for a specific build and going for platinum and it just becomes overwhelming. But I tend to do that.

Anyways, again; good stuff!
That’s the thing. This game just opens itself up to “ahh screw it. Fresh run time” game.

It‘s better that way. Makes it new and fun. Few games can say that. Thanks for your input on my lousy message
 

22:22:22

NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
That’s the thing. This game just opens itself up to “ahh screw it. Fresh run time” game.

It‘s better that way. Makes it new and fun. Few games can say that. Thanks for your input on my lousy message

Yeah I know, very true. It's just an ocd thing i have.. And stop apologizing for your thread/message whatever; we're all gamers here. You just had an amazing experience of overcoming and perhaps thinking you're better at the game then you thought. That's great so sharing it is fine i would like to think. We've all been there especially with this game.
 
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Yumi

Member
Oh you’re not wrong. Don’t mind dying.

Also, to me the Capra demon is “luck”. That tight squeezed area with the dogs attacking from second number 1?! Pure luck on what happens after you enter the fog
I used to think so too. I was dying over and over at the door on a playthrough when I hadn’t in the past. The trick is to get the wolf ring. Even with light armor and the wolf ring equipped the dogs can’t stun lock you at the beginning which keeps you from getting up to the ledge and pick them off. After that, taking on Capra by himself is manageable even in the small battle arena in my opinion.

out of curiously, what kind of build are you rolling?
 

Soodanim

Member
Good stuff man.

I occasionally get the urge to finish my playthrough. For some reason I dropped the game after beating O&S (took me 3 trys, had to mention it haha) and whenever I try to get into it again I'm totally out of the experience; don't know what happend or where to go, etc. So instead I just feel like doing a fresh run. Then I think about going for a specific build and going for platinum and it just becomes overwhelming. But I tend to do that.

Anyways, again; good stuff!
I’ve done runs with the vast majority of weapons (whips are a waste of time of course, but we ignore they exist) and everything that isn’t meant to be bad is viable.

One good thing about Dark Souls is just how much is open to you from the moment you hit Firelink. Within minutes you can get the Zweihander, Morningstar, and Estoc, and with a bit of confident rolling you can get a few weapons from the catacombs. Fancy a run with the Great Scythe or Lucerne? Easy enough. If you’re a bit more confident, go even further and with help from Paladin Leeroy have a chance at getting the Black Knight Great Axe drop.

Or in other directions, you can go get a Club or the Iaito (this one’s a lot more effort, though), the Uchigatana from the Burg, a sword and shield from the Valley. There’s more to mention, too.

My favourite gimmick run is getting the Dragon Head stone immediately and killing bosses with that, Doesn’t quite so the trick on fire-immune bosses, though
 
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sublimit

Banned
Haha Dark Souls 2 wasnt made by Miyazaki.

As soon as I rolled I realised it feels completely different to the others and Miyazaki had nothing to do with it lol
Yeah i know it wasn't made by Miyazaki and it's also true that it was made by a different team. I was one of the first two people here who dared to point that out when the game came out and some people almost crucified me. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
I was also one of the first people who said that even from the gameplay trailers it was obvious that something wasn't right especially regarding the animations.

Still i bought it day 1 and i actually enjoyed it a lot for what it was especially PvP. Many years later and after i played DS3 and replayed DS2 a couple of times i actually appreciate it more than DS3. DS3 is a better game but DS2 felt like a more honest attempt to spice things up and add some variety while DS3 felt like "DS1 fanservice central".They are all 10/10 games but now i actually have a softer spot for DS2 than DS3.

True, he forgot Sekiro

Sekiro has nothing to do with SoulsBorne games other that it was made by the same developers.
 
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I’ve done runs with the vast majority of weapons (whips are a waste of time of course, but we ignore they exist) and everything that isn’t meant to be bad is viable.

One good thing about Dark Souls is just how much is open to you from the moment you hit Firelink. Within minutes you can get the Zweihander, Morningstar, and Estoc, and with a bit of confident rolling you can get a few weapons from the catacombs. Fancy a run with the Great Scythe or Lucerne? Easy enough. If you’re a bit more confident, go even further and with help from Paladin Leeroy have a chance at getting the Black Knight Great Axe drop.

Or in other directions, you can go get a Club or the Iaito (this one’s a lot more effort, though), the Uchigatana from the Burg, a sword and shield from the Valley. There’s more to mention, too.
Agreed, this is an area where Dark Souls is really head and shoulders above the other games in the series. Hopefully Elden Ring's "open world" will allow for this sort of playthrough flexibility.
 

Skifi28

Member
Good stuff, I'd also like to go back and this time finish the darn thing considering I tried it during the original crap PC port which left a lot to be desired. I've finished everything else souls since then and currently trying to platinum DS3. I guess I'm playing DS1 right after. My only real concern is the visuals, after the feast Bloodborne, DS3 and DS remake are I can't imagine how the first game will look or feel. We shall see.
 
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laynelane

Member
I’ve done runs with the vast majority of weapons (whips are a waste of time of course, but we ignore they exist) and everything that isn’t meant to be bad is viable.

One good thing about Dark Souls is just how much is open to you from the moment you hit Firelink. Within minutes you can get the Zweihander, Morningstar, and Estoc, and with a bit of confident rolling you can get a few weapons from the catacombs. Fancy a run with the Great Scythe or Lucerne? Easy enough. If you’re a bit more confident, go even further and with help from Paladin Leeroy have a chance at getting the Black Knight Great Axe drop.

Or in other directions, you can go get a Club or the Iaito (this one’s a lot more effort, though), the Uchigatana from the Burg, a sword and shield from the Valley. There’s more to mention, too.

My favourite gimmick run is getting the Dragon Head stone immediately and killing bosses with that, Doesn’t quite so the trick on fire-immune bosses, though

I have a habit of going down and picking up a Jagged Ghost Blade as the first thing I do after reaching Firelink. If it doesn't drop, it's off to the merchant for firebombs and back to it. I love that there's so many options for weapons right at the start and it all depends on what you want and how much you're willing to do to get it.
 

Soodanim

Member
Sekiro has nothing to do with SoulsBorne games other that it was made by the same developers.
I gave a response that feigned understanding of your line of thinking but subverted your expectations by giving the answer you weren't expecting and leading to while at the same time following what Kokoloko85 Kokoloko85 set up by treating Dark Souls 2 as if it doesn't exist for comic effect.

I was joking
Dark Souls 2 is shit though

I have a habit of going down and picking up a Jagged Ghost Blade as the first thing I do after reaching Firelink. If it doesn't drop, it's off to the merchant for firebombs and back to it. I love that there's so many options for weapons right at the start and it all depends on what you want and how much you're willing to do to get it.

Yes! That's a good one. I've thought about doing that, but it's a rarer drop and I probably tried it but got bored with the drop rates. I do love the weapons with unique animations. I have done a run with dual claws, which obviously takes some setting up but it's fun to have different elemental claws you can switch to. I kept that character at level 11 too, to help out new players with the Gargoyles and ward off Dickwraiths.
 
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this game has among the best interconnected worlds in gaming in my opinion
Even after all the follow-ups, this is still one of the big reasons to play this game. The world is just incredible. Iconic on the level of the SOTN or Super Metroid maps, I would argue. Exploring these incredible maps is probably even more of a reason for me to play DS than the combat. The variety of areas helps keep things fresh, you have everything from the dark and stark Catacombs to the foggy fantasy of Darkroot Forest. And the interconnectedness really is a thing of wonder.
 

laynelane

Member
Yes! That's a good one. I've thought about doing that, but it's a rarer drop and I probably tried it but got bored with the drop rates. I do love the weapons with unique animations. I have done a run with dual claws, which obviously takes some setting up but it's fun to have different elemental claws you can switch to. I kept that character at level 11 too, to help out new players with the Gargoyles and ward off Dickwraiths.

It's a bit of a weird drop rate. The reason I came upon them in the first place was the first time I played, I went down there after the graveyard mistake. I found the dude in the urn, read the item description, figured out I needed to use it NOW after the first ghost, and got it from one of those initial two ghosts. Other times, it's taken longer and having to go further in. I don't find it takes too long most of the time. Although it is scary risking my meagre humanity supply lol. The heavy attack of that weapon is perfect for the dogs in the Capra fight because the blade will not hit the wall (if you fight them on the ledge past the stairs).

Elemental claws sound fun. I'm going to look into that next run.
 
Yes! That's a good one. I've thought about doing that, but it's a rarer drop and I probably tried it but got bored with the drop rates. I do love the weapons with unique animations. I have done a run with dual claws, which obviously takes some setting up but it's fun to have different elemental claws you can switch to. I kept that character at level 11 too, to help out new players with the Gargoyles and ward off Dickwraiths.
Something that happens to me is that I'll start a run intending to use a certain weapon, but then the black knight halberd will drop on my way to unlock the parish elevator and I'll be like well I may as well just build for this instead
 
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I remember this feeling after replaying Demon's Souls again back on the PS3. I had this confused feeling how I ever thought this game was hard, in the first place.
 

Soodanim

Member
It's a bit of a weird drop rate. The reason I came upon them in the first place was the first time I played, I went down there after the graveyard mistake. I found the dude in the urn, read the item description, figured out I needed to use it NOW after the first ghost, and got it from one of those initial two ghosts. Other times, it's taken longer and having to go further in. I don't find it takes too long most of the time. Although it is scary risking my meagre humanity supply lol. The heavy attack of that weapon is perfect for the dogs in the Capra fight because the blade will not hit the wall (if you fight them on the ledge past the stairs).

Elemental claws sound fun. I'm going to look into that next run.
You had no idea how lucky that initial drop was, I’m guessing! I wish I was that lucky when I decided it might be fun to try and get the Channeller Trident to drop from the one pre-O&S Channeller. Gave up on that one.

If you want to try something fun, get the Artorias Greatsword (the one from his soul) and use the flip off a ledge onto a boss that you can plunge attack. Taurus Demon and Asylum Demon (NG+) are good for it.
Something that happens to me is that I'll start a run intending to use a certain weapon, but then the black knight halberd will drop and I'll be like well I may as well just build for this instead
I’ve been there! It’s a hell of a temptation. It’s even worse when I’ve started speccing the stats for something specific (using a build calculator) and the Halberd is basically a wasted opportunity
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Yeah i know it wasn't made by Miyazaki and it's also true that it was made by a different team. I was one of the first two people here who dared to point that out when the game came out and some people almost crucified me. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
I was also one of the first people who said that even from the gameplay trailers it was obvious that something wasn't right especially regarding the animations.

Still i bought it day 1 and i actually enjoyed it a lot for what it was especially PvP. Many years later and after i played DS3 and replayed DS2 a couple of times i actually appreciate it more than DS3. DS3 is a better game but DS2 felt like a more honest attempt to spice things up and add some variety while DS3 felt like "DS1 fanservice central".They are all 10/10 games but now i actually have a softer spot for DS2 than DS3.



Sekiro has nothing to do with SoulsBorne games other that it was made by the same developers.

Fair enough if you enjoy it more. I just count get into it and after a while it felt like it lacked the ”Soul” of a Souls game lol. The little bits of magic that Miyazaki adds, either through mystery, story, secrets, layout and feel of gameplay aswel as mechanics. Even Sekiro feels and looks more similar in alot of ways.

It felt like Miyazaki’s cousin made it lol.
Im a total Miyazaki fanboy btw and nuthugger haha.
Loved the music in DS2 though. I will finish in the far future.

I gave a response that feigned understanding of your line of thinking but subverted your expectations by giving the answer you weren't expecting and leading to while at the same time following what Kokoloko85 Kokoloko85 set up by treating Dark Souls 2 as if it doesn't exist for comic effect.

I was joking
Dark Souls 2 is shit though

That made me laugh
 
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Josemayuste

Member
Oh, OP my poor sweet little child.. you have got a hard and long run ahead of you over git gudin'.


Austin Powers Movie GIF
 

Maddux4164

Member
I used to think so too. I was dying over and over at the door on a playthrough when I hadn’t in the past. The trick is to get the wolf ring. Even with light armor and the wolf ring equipped the dogs can’t stun lock you at the beginning which keeps you from getting up to the ledge and pick them off. After that, taking on Capra by himself is manageable even in the small battle arena in my opinion.

out of curiously, what kind of build are you rolling?
Dex build. Nothing fancy. Just a dude swinging giant weapons around at folks!
 
As someone whose beaten all of the Souls games, Sekiro, Bloodborne....and even a good bit of 'Souls like' titles that other devs have made...and having done 'no hit' runs on them(I OD on these games, okay lol)..Man I gotta say playing them on PC 6 60fps or better makes them so much easier..especially boss battles.

Some of my fave games all time...But i wonder if they were only "Hard" because of the framerate lol.

I hope Elden Ring and whatever should come after is 100x harder than Sekiro, Bloodborne, and DS3.
 

sackings

Member
Enjor and savor it TC. First playthroughs of soulsborne games are peak gaming. If you can get past O&S, you're golden for the rest of the game.
 
First playthrough of DS is a special thing. I remember finding the big headless guy guarding Darkroot Garden and just having a blast fighting him and upgrading my weapons by farming the undead in the church nearby. I spent 2 or 3 hours just hanging out and learning how to fight that one guy alone. But it taught me so much, stuff that I could use in later fights, and ofc that dude shows up again when you battle O&S.

It's a special game. The world is so perfectly designed, every environment goes with every enemy. You will see skeletons and necromancers in the Catacombs, not in the enchanted forest, where there are large walking mushrooms and murderous giant cats. Leeches and flies and maggot-infested abominations in the stinking poison waters at the bottom of Blighttown. The forests of Darkroot Garden feature enchanted giant armored statues and walking trees, enemies shared in the nostalgic DLC, which takes place in the same land but long ago. This is all part of the From Software attention to detail. The worlds feel so vivid because they invest so much attention on these things that matter. They are Masters of Worldbuilding.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Going to brag on my son a little. He played Dark Souls again recently, but this time he finished the entire game without leveling up. I probably couldn't beat that game starting out at max level cuz I'm not very gud at "getting gud". Beating it base level?

Mind Reaction GIF
 

Maddux4164

Member
First playthrough of DS is a special thing. I remember finding the big headless guy guarding Darkroot Garden and just having a blast fighting him and upgrading my weapons by farming the undead in the church nearby. I spent 2 or 3 hours just hanging out and learning how to fight that one guy alone. But it taught me so much, stuff that I could use in later fights, and ofc that dude shows up again when you battle O&S.

It's a special game. The world is so perfectly designed, every environment goes with every enemy. You will see skeletons and necromancers in the Catacombs, not in the enchanted forest, where there are large walking mushrooms and murderous giant cats. Leeches and flies and maggot-infested abominations in the stinking poison waters at the bottom of Blighttown. The forests of Darkroot Garden feature enchanted giant armored statues and walking trees, enemies shared in the nostalgic DLC, which takes place in the same land but long ago. This is all part of the From Software attention to detail. The worlds feel so vivid because they invest so much attention on these things that matter. They are Masters of Worldbuilding.
Well said! Yes!!!
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Firstly, this game has among the best interconnected worlds in gaming in my opinion.

Bought this at it’s launch on 360. Never gave it a real shot.

Over the years I’ve picked it up. On and off. Furthest I’ve gotten was before the O&S battle.

But this is a game I’m happy to start fresh and explore all over again. Decided to do just that recently on Steam.

To my surprise, I stormed my way through to ringing the first bell. Hardly died. I knew where all the good loot was and also how to approach enemies.

I will beat it this time. But that said, I’m shocked at how well I did despite it being a while since I played

I am aware few will be impressed by this. But feels good. It’s world just keeps me coming back for more. What a great game.
Getting Gud in Dark Souls would include being good in pvp. You have much to discover yet, ashen one. ***logs on to grief you***
 
Firstly, this game has among the best interconnected worlds in gaming in my opinion.

Bought this at it’s launch on 360. Never gave it a real shot.

Over the years I’ve picked it up. On and off. Furthest I’ve gotten was before the O&S battle.

But this is a game I’m happy to start fresh and explore all over again. Decided to do just that recently on Steam.

To my surprise, I stormed my way through to ringing the first bell. Hardly died. I knew where all the good loot was and also how to approach enemies.

I will beat it this time. But that said, I’m shocked at how well I did despite it being a while since I played

I am aware few will be impressed by this. But feels good. It’s world just keeps me coming back for more. What a great game.
Once you beat that, beat Bloodborne, then DS3, then Demon's Souls. If you're still hungry DS2:SOTFS.
 

Maddux4164

Member
Once you beat that, beat Bloodborne, then DS3, then Demon's Souls. If you're still hungry DS2:SOTFS.
Agreed. Will be tackling them all. I’ve got the hunger thus far. We will see how long it last. DS used to intimidate me for the longest time. But no more, it simply demands your attention and rewards patience. I’m aware DS2 is the red headed step child, but I’ll likely give that a go next.
 
Agreed. Will be tackling them all. I’ve got the hunger thus far. We will see how long it last. DS used to intimidate me for the longest time. But no more, it simply demands your attention and rewards patience. I’m aware DS2 is the red headed step child, but I’ll likely give that a go next.

For sure. I tried DS1 and my PC crapped out and didn't pick it back up again. Then I played and Platinumed Bloodborne on PS4 and couldn't stop from there. Be warned DS2 isn't really tied to the story of DS1 and 3... it's like Super Mario 2 ... just an odd duck.
 

Maddux4164

Member
Yep. Oh I know I’ve booted it up
For sure. I tried DS1 and my PC crapped out and didn't pick it back up again. Then I played and Platinumed Bloodborne on PS4 and couldn't stop from there. Be warned DS2 isn't really tied to the story of DS1 and 3... it's like Super Mario 2 ... just an odd duck.
Booted it up a long time ago. Recall making my character and then going into some hut/shack or whatever with some creepy old lady. Hah. Kinda was just intimidated and stopped thereafter.
 

laynelane

Member
Agreed. Will be tackling them all. I’ve got the hunger thus far. We will see how long it last. DS used to intimidate me for the longest time. But no more, it simply demands your attention and rewards patience. I’m aware DS2 is the red headed step child, but I’ll likely give that a go next.

DS didn't click for me right away. The first Souls game I played was Demon's Souls and it did. When I played DS2, I had the same issue as DS. It took a couple attempts to get into it. But I ended up really enjoying it. The combat is even slower and more methodical than DS so it takes some getting used to, but once it clicks it's fun and challenging to master. It's a divisive game among fans, for sure, but I found it to be amazing.
 

Kuranghi

Member
I'm going to start with Demon's Souls remake when it goes on sale for <£30, I always wanted to get into them to be part of the zeitgeist but the gameplay style isn't really for me because I hate losing progress in games, so now I'm just going to let it happen naturally.

I don't care how hard a game is as long as I can continue from relatively near where I die, I tried Sekiro and got bored replaying the same parts over and over, I tried training with the zombie guy and felt more confident with the counter and othe moves but it didnt translate into the actual playing.

I think I need to just sit down with someone who's played tons and get some good starting tips and I wouldn't get as frustrated but I like to play games my own way and that doesn't seem to gel with this kind of design.
 

Maddux4164

Member
I'm going to start with Demon's Souls remake when it goes on sale for <£30, I always wanted to get into them to be part of the zeitgeist but the gameplay style isn't really for me because I hate losing progress in games, so now I'm just going to let it happen naturally.

I don't care how hard a game is as long as I can continue from relatively near where I die, I tried Sekiro and got bored replaying the same parts over and over, I tried training with the zombie guy and felt more confident with the counter and othe moves but it didnt translate into the actual playing.

I think I need to just sit down with someone who's played tons and get some good starting tips and I wouldn't get as frustrated but I like to play games my own way and that doesn't seem to gel with this kind of design.
Definitely no expert here… as ya know already. But I’ve had my fair share of “death over and over and over and over” in the same area in DS. Thus far not too bad my new play through, but that’s mainly due to the fact I’m already aware of what’s coming.

Btw… you’ll hate life if you get cursed in the depths with a weapon that needs repaired and you do not know where you are.
 
Firstly, this game has among the best interconnected worlds in gaming in my opinion.

Bought this at it’s launch on 360. Never gave it a real shot.

Over the years I’ve picked it up. On and off. Furthest I’ve gotten was before the O&S battle.

But this is a game I’m happy to start fresh and explore all over again. Decided to do just that recently on Steam.

To my surprise, I stormed my way through to ringing the first bell. Hardly died. I knew where all the good loot was and also how to approach enemies.

I will beat it this time. But that said, I’m shocked at how well I did despite it being a while since I played

I am aware few will be impressed by this. But feels good. It’s world just keeps me coming back for more. What a great game.
The game is just building you up so it'll be that much sweeter when it decides to kick the stool out from under you.
 

LaochEire

Neo Member
In the same boat as OP. Playing on my PS5 in 60FPS and the game feels easier than my first time playing it on PS3.

One thing I have noticed is the second half of the game is poorer than the first. New Londo Ruins, Lost Izalith and Demon Ruins feel completely hollow and uninspiring with some weak bosses. Those copy and pasted demons 😂

Catacombs to Tomb of Giants and Duke's Archives/Crystal Caves are decent though.
 

Jokerevo

Banned
Firstly, this game has among the best interconnected worlds in gaming in my opinion.

Bought this at it’s launch on 360. Never gave it a real shot.

Over the years I’ve picked it up. On and off. Furthest I’ve gotten was before the O&S battle.

But this is a game I’m happy to start fresh and explore all over again. Decided to do just that recently on Steam.

To my surprise, I stormed my way through to ringing the first bell. Hardly died. I knew where all the good loot was and also how to approach enemies.

I will beat it this time. But that said, I’m shocked at how well I did despite it being a while since I played

I am aware few will be impressed by this. But feels good. It’s world just keeps me coming back for more. What a great game.
Wtf have you been playing as a substitute?
 

Winter John

Gold Member
I only bought Dark Souls because it came out a month before Skyrim. I didn't know anything about Demon's Souls or From because I had a 360. I figured at best it'd fill in the time until Skyrim released. I was wrong. Skyrim came out, I rushed to the store to buy it then rushed home. After all that hype and anticipation I played it for maybe 20 minutes, laughed at it then went right back to DS.
 

Maddux4164

Member
Question: Not that I’m planning on doing it but… maybe…

So I’ve got the master key. Is it possible to bypass the Capra demon and the depths and simply head the back way to Blighttown And ring the 2nd bell?

Any reason to go through the depths Or fight Capra? (Capra sucks so much. Screw him).
The gaping dragon on the other hand is a joke and extremely easy.
 

laynelane

Member
Question: Not that I’m planning on doing it but… maybe…

So I’ve got the master key. Is it possible to bypass the Capra demon and the depths and simply head the back way to Blighttown And ring the 2nd bell?

Any reason to go through the depths Or fight Capra? (Capra sucks so much. Screw him).
The gaping dragon on the other hand is a joke and extremely easy.

Yep, you can completely skip Capra Demon and the Depths with the Master Key. If you're trophy hunting, there's reason to go through those areas but if not; skipping them should be fine. All you'll be missing is some weapons, a tail cut, some armour/ring/shield, and an NPC invasion. Actually, wait, the large ember is there too. That's pretty important if you want to upgrade normal weapons and armour. And you can't backtrack to it coming from the other way.

Edit: If you want to learn pyromancies you'll need to go via the Depths too. The NPC who teaches you is on the same level as the large ember.
 
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Maddux4164

Member
Yep, you can completely skip Capra Demon and the Depths with the Master Key. If you're trophy hunting, there's reason to go through those areas but if not; skipping them should be fine. All you'll be missing is some weapons, a tail cut, some armour/ring/shield, and an NPC invasion. Actually, wait, the large ember is there too. That's pretty important if you want to upgrade normal weapons and armour. And you can't backtrack to it coming from the other way.

Edit: If you want to learn pyromancies you'll need to go via the Depths too. The NPC who teaches you is on the same level as the large ember.
The Ember. Isn’t that near the moonlight butterfly? Gonna need the ember
 

Maddux4164

Member
I only bought Dark Souls because it came out a month before Skyrim. I didn't know anything about Demon's Souls or From because I had a 360. I figured at best it'd fill in the time until Skyrim released. I was wrong. Skyrim came out, I rushed to the store to buy it then rushed home. After all that hype and anticipation I played it for maybe 20 minutes, laughed at it then went right back to DS.
Kinda the opposite for me. Other than being a giant vagina and intimidated, Skyrim blew me away and even in 2021 I play it Still hah.

For me it was the intimidation factor over a decade ago that made me drop DS and frankly not even know what I was doing wrong or right for that matter.
 
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