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CAB_Life
Member
Children are already showing an antibody response in 60% of all voluntary reports. It's unnecessary to vaccinate people producing antibodies. They are herd immune.
thefool
Member
Vaccination trials in children are pretty indicative that the placebo control group showed better results. Data showed no difference in hospitalizations and deaths, while the vaccinated group displayed statistically relevant adverse reactions namely fatigue, headaches, chills, pains, fever, along allergy reactions.
As for using children to achieve herd immunity, considering they need to be put into risk by being administered a vaccine that didn't show any positive outcome against the disease vs non-vaccinated, that most likely goes against United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child Article 3 that states that " In all actions concerning children, whether undertaken by public or private social welfare institutions, courts of law, administrative authorities or legislative bodies, the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration. ".
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
This isn't hard. People who feel it's a danger to them personally will line up to get vaccinated. There are of course other reasons that will drive people to get vaccinated, but a personal risk assessment is almost certainly the primary one.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That it does not. Or at least, it is not induced with these COVID vaccines. Just take a look at 100% vaccinated Gibraltar.
And even if it were somehow possible with these vaccines (it's clearly not by this point), you can forget injecting children simply for the greater good. That is not a door I ever want to see opened.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I wonder what they tell the vaccinated people who die anyway? "You can rest easy knowing you died of natural causes and not COVID"?
Meanwhile, the 7-day average of daily deaths in Alabama is at 7 as of yesterday. It was 24 on July 20, 2020.
Alabama COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Alabama COVID-19 Coronavirus update by county with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, current active cases, recoveries, historical data, trends, projections, and timeline.
www.worldometers.info
Raven117
Member
Well, Im locking down. Don't know about you.I wonder what they tell the vaccinated people who die anyway? "You can rest easy knowing you died of natural causes and not COVID"?
Meanwhile, the 7-day average of daily deaths in Alabama is at 7 as of yesterday. It was 24 on July 20, 2020.
Alabama COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Alabama COVID-19 Coronavirus update by county with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, current active cases, recoveries, historical data, trends, projections, and timeline.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
I mean, pretty much every human behavior can be boiled down to self interest...luckily helping and protecting others them is also a function of our self interest. unfortunately that circle of "others" for some people is quite small ...
which brings me to my favorite quote ( ͡ ͜ ʖ ͡͡
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. -einstein
Shai-Tan
Banned
First, to get it out of the way, many vaccine skeptics aren’t (explicitly) against vaccines in general. Although looking into details they often do have generalized concern that they don’t share because they know it isn’t a particularly defensible position (it tend to rely on “alternative” medical beliefs, and ideas about naturalness). The vaccine causes autism dude Andrew Wakefield was promoting other vaccines. What matters is the details. Like for example there being vaccines that aren’t MRNA based — nevermind that your objection hangs on the false notion that MRNA tech is new and completely unproven, that there are errors in a cost benefit calculation that doesn’t include the high likelihood of getting COVID, or significantly underestimates the risks of COVID relative to the vaccines.
re trust, you’re not getting it. Imagine a scale from 1 to 10. This could be multiple scales but won’t be for the sake of simplicity here. One one end of the scale is solipsistic skepticism that places the most trust in ones own judgements, seeks out others to validate pre existing beliefs, and is resistant to contrary information because they view it as hostile, and have been poisoned against it by others who are like minded
The other end of the scale could be humility through skepticism that knows its own limits, why understanding criticism is necessary to counteract systematic error, and participate in or look to sources of information and reasoning that are less prone to error.
The former often poses as the latter. If these are ideal categories any person or community could fall somewhere on that number line on any one topic, but in practice there are clusters. Loosely defined vaccine skeptical online communities have a high degree of similarity in reasoning and behavior despite the notion that there's something peculiar about this particular case, and people who are persuaded disproportionately have an epistemic stance more like the former. There are many unreflective people who accept reasoning behind vaccines without looking into it - however they aren't posing a public health problem. There may be some other topic in which their views come into question (as per the previous post the controversy is typically where political or social values and beliefs conflict with science)
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Raven117
Member
Man....you read all of that stuff in the aggregate...sure feels like some folks are angling for lockdowns again....I don't know...
Cyberpunkd
Member
Whoever orders lockdowns when 50% of population is fully vaccinated (broadly) loses the next elections.
QSD
Member
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Elections postponed! Too dangerous to hold them during these difficult times.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Considering France decided to hold elections two days before the first lockdown in March 2020 - no chance…I hope. Maybe it’s time for Marine Le Pen to win?
ManaByte
Gold Member
delirium trigger
Member
You read posts on social media and there are all the people pretending to be concerned but it becomes pretty obvious that they're rooting for more spikes so they can work from home or go back on unemployment.
Cyberpunkd
Member
News from France - in true French fashion the government backed down somewhat, creating even more confusion:
1. Need for vaccination / negative PCR test for 12-18 years old has been pushed from September 1st to October 1st. Note this doesn't apply to school - you will still not be required to present any form of (called here) 'pass sanitaire' to attend school
2. Fines for businesses not controlling 'pass sanitaire' reduced from 9 000 to 1 500 EUR
3. Businesses will control 'pass sanitaire' but not your ID making sure it matches - I just tried it and was able to correctly scan the QR code of my wife for my own use...whops!
Other data: 22 000 positive cases in the last 24 hours ; 6 869 people hospitalized, including 859 in ICU, almost 818k vaccine injections realized in the last 24 hours.
1. Need for vaccination / negative PCR test for 12-18 years old has been pushed from September 1st to October 1st. Note this doesn't apply to school - you will still not be required to present any form of (called here) 'pass sanitaire' to attend school
2. Fines for businesses not controlling 'pass sanitaire' reduced from 9 000 to 1 500 EUR
3. Businesses will control 'pass sanitaire' but not your ID making sure it matches - I just tried it and was able to correctly scan the QR code of my wife for my own use...whops!
Other data: 22 000 positive cases in the last 24 hours ; 6 869 people hospitalized, including 859 in ICU, almost 818k vaccine injections realized in the last 24 hours.
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Jaysen
Banned
Yep, that sounds about right. Live stupid, die stupid.
Raven117
Member
Thats what it feels like...
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You can also read posts on Twitter about how the earth is flat and the president is a reptile.
Doesn't mean you should put any faith into what they are saying.
Raven117
Member
He is right about this.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah... hard to argue with that approach, to be honest. If you want to encourage people to get vaccinated, just clearly demonstrate the benefits and don't try to shame or berate them into getting it.
Zangiefy360
Banned
Just curious, but who do you think are the stupid people not getting the vaccine?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
If someone is so stubborn and petulant that they won't try to save their own life out of spite then that is just plain stupid.
Raven117
Member
As they say. Can't fix stupid.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
If the stories are any indication then imminent death or extreme suffering does in fact fix this kind of stupid.
The problem is that it shouldn't have to.
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Raven117
Member
That doesn't count. That is just stupidity running face first into reality.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Stupidity always runs face first into reality. It's just a matter of when and where.
Just look at Florida.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Florida is ranked 25 out of 50 states in terms of vaccination rates at 47.7% and basically tied with Illinois. Illinois's positivity rate is currently ranked 35th of 50 states at 2.5% while Florida's 3rd of all 50 states at 12.6%. Same vaccination rates, wildly different outcomes.
delirium trigger
Member
Florida's amazing. I left NY during the pandemic and moved down here.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Is this a sidebar, or your take away impression from those numbers?
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I meant the fact that Florida is known for its stupidity in general. Not for covid specifically.
Ever hear of "Florida man"?
QSD
Member
I'm not sure I fully get what you are trying to say in this post, though I do appreciate you writing a detailed answer...
Here's an article tweeted out by David Fuller (of Rebel Wisdom) that might give you pause:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/0...esearch-is-fraudulent-until-proved-otherwise/
I know there are vaccines that aren't MNRA based, I've had one. My objection is not that MNRA is completely unproven (that's a minor straw man), it's that they're less proven than other non-MNRA vaccines. Whether they are proven enough remains to be seen in the long term. It's looking good so far, but it's still early days seems to me.
How do you know which sources of information are less prone to error? That seems to me to be one of the core problems here. There are no sources of information that are 100% guaranteed spin free.
It feels to me like we are talking past one another here. There are certainly people who mask a whole set of regressive and luddite beliefs with a veil of mild but nagging skepticism. But that doesn't mean you can just dismiss arguments about the medical establishment having acted in a way that fundamentally undermines trust. Are we simply supposed to disregard that now because it inconveniences the effort to get everyone vaccinated?
Here's an article tweeted out by David Fuller (of Rebel Wisdom) that might give you pause:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/0...esearch-is-fraudulent-until-proved-otherwise/
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
do you know how it will work for foreigners? will they be given a QR code?
delirium trigger
Member
The numbers from the post I quoted are a lot better than the numbers coming out of NY and NJ.
delirium trigger
Member
Yes. One of the toughest parts about moving down here was parting ways with all those stable folks from up north. :sarcasm:
Crazy exists in all states. I guess if you want to see a guy with a mullet wrestle an alligator come down here. If you want to see a guy in designer clothes defecating in a trash can at 2 in the afternoon you can go to NY or Cali.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yeah okay lol
delirium trigger
Member
People love to hate on Florida especially now. When you point out that Florida's numbers are middle of the pack despite having the most lax restrictions and a huge at risk demographic of old people they have a brain aneurysm. "Hurr durr, Florida man."
There's a reason why people flocked here.
"Oh what a shame, the tiki bar is open and people are having fun."
Rock And Roll
Member
Source?
But even if it’s correct, that’s a great figure!Especially as the rollout for that age group hasn’t been going on for that long.
Sorry, but young people by and large are more than happy to get vaccinated, and are not falling for all the anti-vax bullshit being chucked about
Interesting how you constantly accuse people of being uneducated and believing whatever they read from random internet sources with heavy political biases and then post a number that was clearly bullshit. It's almost like you're on the other furthest end of the political spectrum
TheDreadBaron
Member
Yeah pretty lame, northerners have been feeding off the superiority of winning the war for quite long enough. The white southerner is fair game to call an incestuous inbred dipshit. Nobody likes arrogant dicks who won't let that shit go. Liberal elites in our big cities really act like they're some bourgeoisie upper party pricks, and they're just so smug about it.
Jaysen
Banned
Anyone with a choice to get a free covid vaccine who chooses not take it given all the evidence is a complete fucking idiot.
Cyberpunkd
Member
If you are from the EU your QR codes are compatible, so just show them. If from outside EU have a paper ready showing your PCR result / vaccination status.
TheContact
Member
if you want to talk statistics, then getting the vaccine is vastly superior to the consequences of covid compared to any side effects from the vaccine
If it is like where I live, it is a huge minority problem. This is what Biden was referring to with his Tuskegee airman junk.
The comments of not giving them treatment when they show up sick makes me laugh in this day and age. Imagine all these black and hispanic people left to die for being "stupid".
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Just to lay out some actual numbers to help the conversation...
- Out of approximately 127,000,000 people in the United States under the age of 30, there have been fewer than 3,000 deaths with COVID since January 1st, 2020 to July 7th, 2021.
- Out of approximately 75,000,000 people in the United States 60 years of age or older, there have been more than 500,000 deaths with COVID since January 1st, 2020 to July 7th, 2021.
So while one group has seen 0.66666667% of its population die with COVID, the other has seen 0.00236220%. Put a different way, people aged 60 years or older are dying with COVID at over 282 times the rate of those under the age of 30, and obviously that increases with age.