Mike Zhang
Member
To be frank, as a gamer mostly play JP games, PS5 is not that appealing. No wonder Japanese people don't buy it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
GamingBolt: Sony and PS5's performance in Japan is becoming a grave concern
- Thread starter Marty-McFly
- Start date
- Business
Marty-McFly
Banned
It comes with the territory.
You're going to see a lot of Sony is doomed articles this gen because Switch is dominating and Xbox is strengthening.
Personally, I think the PS5 will do good, maybe even great,
but they've lost significant marketshare from the Xone, and Wii U, and PS4 days where they ran the gamut with an iron fist.
Last edited:
Rean no Kiseki
Banned
"GamingBolt"
Dream-Knife
Banned
Things come and go. A dedicated video game machine hooked to your TV is outdated.
Goalus
Member
Xbox is doing great in Japan at the moment.
Wizz-Art
Member
"GamingBolt"
I wonder if the rest of the world will follow in this thinking.
ParaSeoul
Member
They're doing great for xbox in Japan which means selling more than 13 units a week
ParaSeoul
Member
Yet the PS5 is the fastest selling console ever
Marty-McFly
Banned
Only by virtue shipping more and launching during the holiday season while Switch launched in March. This will change when Switch has it's next equivalent launch aligned holiday season.Yet the PS5 is the fastest selling console ever
The real question is can PS5 even reach PS4 levels of success once the shortages are over, much less Switch's?
ParaSeoul
Member
Yes? You are delusional if you think it won't.
Marty-McFly
Banned
Wishful thinking? What does the PS5 offer that the PS4 didn't?
Switch is selling to an entirely larger expanded market. It's on pace to sell outsell PS4's best year (20 million) for its third year straight.
Last edited:
yurinka
Member
I know what revenue is, it's the money these companies get from sales and subscriptions. The profit is what remains after substracting the costs to this revenue.
These companies get most of their revenue from selling games, not hardware. Sony made almost the double of the revenue that Nintendo because Sony sells way more games for their console worldwide (and counting both boxed and digital) than Nintendo.
Hardware is mostly for them a channel to sell their games, this is why sometimes they choose to sell their console at a loss even if after selling a game or two for it they turn it into a profit.
To look only at the profit doesn't make sense at all because it shows an incomplete picture, and same happens if we only look at the ranking of top selling boxed games in Japan. PS4 broke the record of the biggest amount of games sold for a console (worldwide, digital+boxed), PS5 is having the best launch a console ever had breaking the PS4 historical records and PlayStation is generating way more revenue than Nintendo. If they generate less profit than Nintendo is because they choose to reinvest it on more games and more expensive games, hardware and services, plus in growing their teams.
PS5 is offering the same that Switch offered: more power to run bigger games. Switch is selling less games than PS4, which is what generates them more money and profit.
On top of that, Sony's home consoles have a life that is several years longer than modern Nintendo consoles and portables, so will keep selling games for longer. Example: PS4 is almost 8 years old and still has around 90 million MAU buying games, when Nintendo's modern portables and Wii traditionally get discontinued on its 8-9th year (the other modern Nintendo and Xbox home consoles get discontinued way faster).
PS5 is selling more consoles and according to Sony is getting its users more engagement than PS4, which traditionally results on more games sold. So pretty likely PS5 will beat not only PS4 hardware sales gaming history records numbers (PS5 is the best selling console ever after 3 quarters), but also sofware sales numbers.
Last edited:
Marty-McFly
Banned
Nintendo absolutely buries Sony in terms of first party software sales.
And they are doubling their hardware sales this year (4.45 million vs. 2.3 million Q1)
Are you talking about revenue from third parties?
Your claim that Sony "invests their revenue" is ridiculous. You can't invest money you never made.
Last edited:
FoundryMusic
Member
Don't worry, there's an abundance of Sony apologists here to take care of them.
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1685439978){kind=avatar}
[Sigma]
Member
I'm just waiting on the next Jim and Hermen Japan spin/lie. Then try say how much Japan loves Astrobot and how hard they're working on it for them. How they got big AAA timed exclusives from Japan's biggest 3rd party publishers like Final Fantasy, that Japan should look forward to it. FH these two clowns.
. Then try say how much Japan loves Astrobot and how hard they're working on it for them. How they got big AAA timed exclusives from Japan's biggest 3rd party publishers like Final Fantasy, that Japan should look forward to it. FH these two clowns.
bender
What time is it?
What data points lead you to believe it will not reach the same level of success as PS4? PS5 closed Sony's FYE outpacing the PS4 launch despite launching during a pandemic and while the world's technology manufacturers are struggling with semiconductor shortages.
Marty-McFly
Banned
Whoa. I thought the pandemic is the only reason why Switch smashed the world record for consoles sold last year with 28.8 million? But for Sony it's somehow slowing them down?
Let me put it this way, the best chance PS5 has at beating PS4 sales is if all this pandemic sales boost mumbo jumbo is actually true, because otherwise I see it doing very similar numbers to PS4 on a good day.
Last edited:
TheGodfather07
Member
This has been the trend in Japan for a long time now. Also I dont think sony care when they have their fastest selling console yet. Growth in other territories has more than made up for the decline in japan.
bender
What time is it?
You didn't answer the question and are obviously clueless if you don't think every technology company is struggling with manufacturing.
Oddvintagechap
Member
Indies have more competition on PS4/5, then on switch. Its indies or Nintendo games basically.
Marty-McFly
Banned
Including Nintendo.
I bet you didn't figure that into your argument.
Nintendo’s president confirms chip shortages are hampering Switch production | VGC
Furukawa says the company is “not able to produce all the products we want to”…
www.videogameschronicle.com
Last edited:
ghairat
Member
Have you been to Japan? I went there before Covid and the majority of people were either playing on mobile phones or Nintendo switches. Even when I went to the arcades, I saw lots of people playing on their Nintendo switches. In recent years, handheld gaming has taken over Japan like a storm.
EDIT: Changed are to were
Last edited:
bender
What time is it?
Including Nintendo.
I bet you didn't figure that into your argument.
Nintendo’s president confirms chip shortages are hampering Switch production | VGC
Furukawa says the company is “not able to produce all the products we want to”…
I'm pretty sure Nintendo would fall under "every technology company". You still didn't answer the question. Pity, I was looking forward to reading what you'd pull out of your ass next.
LazyParrot
Member
When did you go? I went in 2018 and didn't see a single person with a Switch. It was probably like 90% phones, 10% other portables. I saw more people with a PSP or regular DS than Switches. Always thought that was weird.
yurinka
Member
And? First party games are only a small part of the games sold for a console. Over 1500 million games have been sold for PS4, versus over 600 for Switch. With over 116M consoles sold vs 89M. 13 games per console vs 7 games per console.
It's normal for Switch to have better hardware sales now since it's on the later part of its yearly sales peak while PS4 and PS5 are in the lowest part of their sales cycle (one just started, the other one is sunseting) and that peak became even higher due to the covid peak that benefited the whole industry.
I'm talking about the revenue made by 1st parties, which include a 30% of the money generated by 3rd party sales. The money Nintendo or Sony companies make (or as you prefer to say it, revenue they generate) comes mostly from software, and specifically from the 3rd party games. This is why I'm talking about it.
They know they will have a certain amount of revenue for the fiscal year, so they plan their investments/costs for that fiscal year considering it knowing that at the end of the fiscal year they will have a certain balance. Obviously the money for the costs comes from insane amount of revenue generated in the previous year, not the one they still didn't earn.
Last edited:
Marty-McFly
Banned
I'll give it a go
Q: What data points lead you to believe it will not reach the same level of success as PS4?
A: I never said it wouldn't. I just said there is no real evidence that it would. Breaking launch records amounts to little more than being able to ship the most.
Banjo64
cumsessed
It’s not irrelevant, but Sony don’t need to succeed there to do well.
BattleScar
Member
Why has the PS5 outsold the PS4 launch aligned then? That too, while there is a worldwide silicon shortage.
PS4 launched Holiday 2013, PS5 launched Holiday 2020.
Success isn't a zero sum game btw. People can and often do own both a Switch and a home console (PS4/Xbox).
Marty-McFly
Banned
Because they had more PS5's available for launch?
PS5 has not even been out a year yet. There is not enough data to make any claims about its demand vs. the PS4 until the shortages are over.
You're jumping the gun.
Last edited:
TheGodfather07
Member
Home consoles are becoming irrelevant in japan. What can sony really do about though? They're done with handheld gaming devices. It's better to focus on other territories where they are seeing growth.
The Shepard
Member
Sony should just make a switch like console and have it playable with all ps4 games via download, stream ps5 games via console. Japan loves there handheld consoles and Sony give up on them.
yurinka
Member
Yes, boxed games in Japan and UK are a tiny part of the worldwide market if we look at the total PS4 and Switch worldwide numbers including boxed and digital.
And yes, Xbox revenue is way less than what PlayStation makes, plus on top Sony also has profit.
Sony is doing exactly what Jimbo said in the 'we believe in generations': to continue supporting PS4 for at least 2 or 3 years after PS5 launch because even if PS5 sells at gaming history records they were going still to have many dozens of millions of people still playing and buying games on PS4 for years.
He also said that wanted to see PS5 games using its new features like haptic feedback, adaptative triggers, 3D audio or way faster loading speeds with SSD, and it's what all PS5 games (or PS5 native version of these games in case of crossgen games) are doing.
Yes, they prioritize their stock in their best selling markets, as all companies do.
And it's dumb to say they are abandoning the Japanese market when they have (and will have) exclusives from all Japanese 3rd parties this generation and also 1st and 2nd party games while also getting all the Japanese multi 3rd party games. Japan Studio (now rebranded as Team Asobi) with Astro, Polyphony with Gran Turismo 7, Kojipro with Death Stranding Director's Cut, ARC with Guilty Gear Strive, Square with FFVIIR Intergrade, Forspoken FFXVI, etc.
Last edited:
BattleScar
Member
Glad you made that point, so I didn't have to.
So the "concern" is also completely unjustified as well right? After all, as you just said, there isn't enough data to make any claims about the PS5's performance yet.
Cheers.
Team Andromeda
Member
Why should SONY care? They're not in the handheld sector and Japan in Mobile and handheld city and that's been the case for decades.
No wonder Japan console heydays are long gone
No wonder Japan console heydays are long gone
Marty-McFly
Banned
The concern is about Sony losing Japan completely and all of the smaller AA Japanese games currently on the Switch and PS4.
Do I personally think this will change PS5's fate much from PS4? Nope.
I also don't expect PS5 to do Switch numbers when the shortages are over because the Switch just sold 20 million consoles in Japan, among other reasons.
Sony will still do well though. I don't think the tone of the article was that Sony is screwed, just that they lost Japan, which they have.
Last edited:
BattleScar
Member
PlayStation's decline in Japan has been happening for decades - since the PS3. The market has ostensibly moved to portable/semi-portable devices and mobile.
A home console not performing as well isn't really surprising to anyone who knows anything about the gaming industry.
This is why Sony has an entire separate mobile gaming division working on iOS/Android games, which absolutely print money in Japan and worldwide. Key title being Fate: Grand Order.
PlayStation don't need to sell well in Japan in order for Sony to make money from the Japanese market.
FingerBang
Member
Why the hell would they care about a market that has seen home console numbers go down since the late 2000s?
Sony is doing right, focusing on the markets where games actually sell. They have great Japanese developers support.
Sony is doing right, focusing on the markets where games actually sell. They have great Japanese developers support.
Team Asobi is maybe rebranded Japan Studio, but it is clear, they will make games that appeal to worldwide audience, not Japanese audience.
Gran Turismo isn't japanese targeted game either. Death's Stranding Director's Cut is PS4 game ported to PS5 and Kojima is rumored to be working with Xbox on his next game. FFVII Integrade is PS5 version of FFVII, Forspoken will be also available for PC
And FF XVI is probably timed exclusive game.Look at partnerships Jimbo is making. They bought Nixxes to port their games to PC. The partnered with Haven Studios, Firewalk and Deviation Games and all of them would be western oriented games probably with live service aspects (at least Haven game)
Sooo. Yeah. Output for japanese gamers on PS5 will be even weaker then in PS4 generation. And I can't see how they will sell more PS5's then they sold PS4's
Last edited:
Mikey Jr.
Member
Not really concerned about Sony losing out on "tentacle hentai simulator 8".
I'll live. Switch can have it.