azertydu91
Hard to Kill
It's always like this with console war everybody is waiting its gotcha moment then jump the gun at everything that remotely look like it.
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Digital Foundry: Heard that Xbox Series S Is A "Pain" For Developers Due To Memory Issues
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Hardware
- Status
Mojang (being MS) had dev kits before most other devs. Are you suggesting Mojang didn't know pathtracing can't run on consoles before announcing raytracing on consoles?
Come on. If it's path tracing they wanted and "you and I know" it can't run on consoles why didn't Mojang?
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Hezekiah
Banned
Got any proof of that, or is this another assumption pulled out of your arse?
Hezekiah
Banned
Just read all the posts on here before release where people were saying Series S would be pushing AAA games at 1440p, that should do for starters lol.
Definitely not 'deluded fanboys' though.
Riky
$MSFT
Yes look at the marketing. As soon as Series S was announced which was later they changed it like I said.
You really think it's something to do with PS5
? You got any proof of that?
Hezekiah
Banned
Yeah MS even came out with defensive PR about why some PS5 multiplatform games were performing better even though idiots like Colt Eastwood were talking about a 40% performance advantage (and unfortunately was believed by some gullible people).Yes look at the marketing. As soon as Series S was announced which was later they changed it like I said.
You really think it's something to do with PS5
It's as I said. It's not publicly available info but let's just say I'm fairly sure the OS doesn't just eat 2GB and leave most of it unused.
Dust-by-Monday
Member
At least thanks to the Series S, we'll see most games running at 60fps on the other consoles.
Series S gets 1080p/30 and Series X and PS5 get 4K/60. Easy.
Series S gets 1080p/30 and Series X and PS5 get 4K/60. Easy.
MarkMe2525
Member
I really don't understand the point of the thread. Old rehashed information and speculation of a possibility that hasn't yet happened.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
so its your own opinion on it basically.
here is a developer saying the memory isn't a problem really
"In our exclusive interview published yesterday, though, 4A Games Chief Technical Officer Oleksandr Shyshkovtsov offered a different take. The Metro developers apparently found that the RAM was not an issue in their case, but the lower GPU performance of the Xbox Series S could prove to be a challenge in future titles due to the very nature of the 4A Engine renderer.
Going forward, 4A Games is working on a new Metro game, a Metro multiplayer spin-off, and a brand new IP. Metro Exodus will be updated later this year to run at 1080p@60 FPS on the Xbox Series S, featuring full ray-traced lighting, per-pixel ray traced GI, and ray traced emissive surfaces with area shadows."
Ah good to bring the Switch into the discussion, the weak platform getting ALL of the 3rd party multiplats the other platforms get, right?
Dodkrake
Banned
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know facts have an expiry date. In that case, nothing to see here.
It's not my opinion on it. The devs saying there is split RAM are correct. Riky and Bernd are not. If we say all of it is reserved for the OS that would leave even less for devs.
The metro dev is telling you that his engine struggles were with the Series S GPU instead of the RAM. That's not telling you that others who face real RAM constraints are wrong.
Different engines have different pipelines. Metro exodus relies less on precomputed data and more on computing power. That's what he's saying there. They struggled with GPU power and in the end had to cut other things instead.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
We’ll times change and opinions of developers change when they use the hardware more.
Is a fact from 2 years ago about hardware set in stone?
Faithless83
Banned
It's just a button called "generate xbox series S and xbox series X cfg file". Fucking lazy devs can't press a button.
Some of you guys think like a women driving a car "I put the gas here and press this for it to work".
Some of you guys think like a women driving a car "I put the gas here and press this for it to work".
phil_t98
#SonyToo
And the same Dev said he wasn’t happy with the engine as of yet and it will improve to be used with series S to
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I give the most ardent brand loyalists credit, they’re consistent at their loyalty.
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Ok? That's normal. The game has released by the way so it is already in use.
Kerotan
Member
When Devs dump last gen they should jump this too. It will hold back the entire gen. Although at least post exclusives won't be held back later this Gen.
lostinblue
Banned
Lazy devs complain.
They just want to run Xbox Series X code and texture assets and add a resolution toggle. I'm sure there are better solutions to better use the hardware than dumping into RAM textures with resolution so high that they're useless. Bandwidth is also lower than Series X, so even if the RAM was the same that wouldn't be a good idea, would just introduce a considerable bottleneck on the lower spec console.
They're lucky they have 10 GB and not 8 GB.
The biggest bottleneck for last gen is still not GPU, but CPU and Bluray/HDD streaming.
Although of course they'll be happy to have 4 TFlops as a lower denominator, but that's not where the generational gap happens.
They won't "jump it", CPU-wise and down to GPU features there's no reason to. And it's probably selling well enough to ignore too. Plus, I don't think Microsoft would allow it, just like you never had an exclusive game for PS4 Pro, Xbox One X I'm sure you won't have Xbox Series X exclusives.
PS3 was a clusterfuck in a memory deprived generation. 256 MB for CPU and 256 MB for GPU (with part of it being reserved for framebuffers) meant cold sweats to anyone trying to push it in a multiplatform environment.
Imagine if PS5 was 8 GB CPU and 8GB GPU. RAM wouldn't be enough against Xbox Series X as videogames typically need more memory in the graphics department.
Precisely. But platform agnostic assets also means they're not using the hardware accurately.
Hence, a Xbox Series S with the same RAM as X seems a bad idea because it would enable them to be lazier. Then they would complain that the performance was unstable and tanked with 8192x8192 textures.
_______________________
I like this quote:
LOL, being lower spec is a bottleneck. It's called lower denominator. And yes Xbox Series S is the lower denominator this generation until Switch 2 comes along, is worse and has less RAM. But that was evident from the minute it was shown.
Yes, and Switch runs bellow spec, batch converting most assets into lower resolution ones. You know, like they did on PS2, PS3, Xbox One... and now PS4 for as long as the transition takes to PS5 exclusives. Platforms they consider to be under their "lead platform" experience.
This is whining over nothing.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
yes and was 1080p and had ray traced effects. kinda funny you say that its released, its as if you don't know they patch games so much after release that games can perform much Better/Worse when patched after launch
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Gotta say.........I told you so. It's why I've questioned MS making this box for years now.
Dodkrake
Banned
It is if said hardware hasn't changed. And it hasn't.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
By 2024. I'm 100% sure of it. It wouldn't surprise me if the Series S is hurting Starfield's development.
mitchman
Gold Member
Yes, if they want to sell then need to develop and scale down for what the majority of the market is using.
DaGwaphics
Member
Well now, there might be some genuine lessons to be learned from this two pronged approach. They might teach themselves that having a budget entry is a boon to their console market share.
I don't understand your posts sometimes. What is the relevance of this? Are you saying their engine was not GPU bound? Or you're just saying the devs did a good job and hope they release updates, if so I agree.
If you are questioning the idea that they were struggling with GPU power though know that it rarely hit 1080p. It was closer to 864p and had drops to 512p. That and fields of bushes were turned into a desert on XSS because they were struggling with the GPU power of the machine with their engine.
avin
Member
It could struggle, down the road. I'm not seeing that it really matters. At some stage, I may sell mine, and someone who doesn't care about playing games at lower fps will pay an ungodly amount of money for it. It still blows my mind that Gamestop gave me $330 for my old PS4 Pro.
I can't tell if you guys are very poor or merely argumentative sometimes. By the time I drop the XSS, I'll have probably paid less than $60/year for it. Less than one game, and much less than I dropped on Gamepass alone, never mind what I spent on MSFS.
avin
I can't tell if you guys are very poor or merely argumentative sometimes. By the time I drop the XSS, I'll have probably paid less than $60/year for it. Less than one game, and much less than I dropped on Gamepass alone, never mind what I spent on MSFS.
avin
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Again I will point out that he sees that their engine will get better and the negative points about metro on xss will be less on future games by them.
I would say similar now with the PS5 in that they ain’t using it’s potential yet and the SSD speed isn’t being used properly as of yet .
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
70% sure it's mainly Series S issues. This might be why the comparison to CyberPunk was thrown out there. Had it only been released for PC and next-gen, it would have been a good game with bugs. And those bugs would have been cleaned up mainly within the first 6 months without all the torch burnings.
lostinblue
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
lostinblue
Banned
But actually the bottleneck on Cyberpunk was lack of SSD on a game designed on an aging engine to stream a lot of assets. Witcher 3 wasn't any good at streaming assets years before and it just didn't improve.
If they made a campaign citing they recommended external SSD's and sell external Cyberpunk branded SSD's for both Xbox One and PS4 the disaster would be half of what it is. Throw in a delay to polish the experience and they'd be in the clear.
GTA5 on Xbox 360 required both HDD and the DVD on the drive so it could stream from two channels increasing media banwidth, and not every Xbox 360 had HDD to install it (or PS3 at that point with the Super Slim with 12 GB being out by then). And they came out unscathed because they had the balls to implement "minimum requirements for a good experience". (of course the percentage of players that already had a HDD was big so that helps)
Xenoblade Chronicles X on Wii U ran like shit without buying a fast usb pen to help stream assets and downloading the asset packs, but they got away with it as well. Without that solution I think the game would have been slammed by critics.
I wouldn't say PS4/Xbox One are the best way to play cyberpunk but the clusterfuck that happens is 100% down to the HDD's that came standard with the consoles in a game designed to have more bandwidth than they can offer.
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DaGwaphics
Member
A YT channel made a random comment on a video and that has something to do with a development delay?
Do you have a better explanation as to why they delayed it two weeks after announcing the showcase for it?A YT channel made a random comment on a video and that has something to do with a development delay?
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Why did so many people bring up teraflops then? It appears like the complaints shift from one thing to another.
How does the memory configuration of the XSS prevent PC, PS5 and XSX versions of games from being created?
It wouldn’t directly affect it. It’s the contracts or rules to release same date on both s and x that would prevent it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It was both back then in the "next-gen tech" thread. Memory constraints on world building (which you can't scale down between versions) and laughing at people sticking up for such a low TF machine, after trying to dog the PS5 for not being 12.1. I.e., mental gymnastics.
As for shifting complaints, I will give you that. Both sides do this, especially one more than the other in the great API acronym wars.
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DaGwaphics
Member
Better than jumping to conclusions because of random YT videos? Sure. It wasn't going to be ready for release, at least not in a state that they were comfortable with. Next time Sony delays something, I should post that it was caused by them not having full RDNA2 features, that would be equally ridiculous in comparison to what you are saying here.
Good on MS for giving them the time they needed, if it came to that. Sucks for me though, I was looking forward to this one.
Chronicle
Member
Yes but it could be what's holding them back on the X, so big difference.
I speculated. Speculating is not jumping to conclusions. You still haven’t explained why my speculation was dumb btw. You merely dodged the issue with a catch all its not ready argument. So again, if my speculation as to why it’s not ready is dumb, what is your better speculation?
DaGwaphics
Member
Any attempts to pinpoint a precise cause for a delay from the outside are basically dumb. Any potential reasons I could list would be equally dumb in a vacuum. Why isn't it ready? I have no idea. Is it buggy or broken, is it a performance thing, pacing trouble, literally millions of things. All the same type of issues that likely caused some of the Sony delays.
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Topher
Gold Member
I think it should be pointed out that DF said devs stated XSS was a pain. They didn't say it made game development impossible. In the video, John also speculated that this may help XSX and PS5 versions in some ways.....
So any discussion as to why starfield is delayed is dumb in your book? Ok, got it. Thanks for participating.
DaGwaphics
Member
Not at all. I just find some parts of the discussion personally amusing, particularly these very definitive platform related statements. Carry on.
No you have not. The question is easy:
Can a dev on PC (now or in the future) skip weaker hardware if they want/need to, or not?
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