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Stop making me put the controller down...

Oof85

Member
Op they're ripping your sphincter into shreds right now but I agree.

The overindulgence of cinematic games these days is mind-boggling, and the crowd just laps it up over and over again.

The real rub is that none of these games have surpassed Shadow of the Colossus, and that's sixteen years old now.

Too busy chasing Hollywood yet the real gems are overlooked by the masses imo.
 
It isn't a flaw though, just a design choice.
Personal difference of opinion I guess. I find it to be an outdated design that fit perfectly into a generation of low end memory and low end hard drive space. There are great ideas that Resident Evil 5 has that can be improved upon and that, to me, is one of them.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I agree. In fact one thing that i think more developers should realize is that games can still be very cinematic even without forcing you to watch a whole bunch of cutscenes.
Cyberpunk, as you pointed out, is a great example of this.
There are others like Prey and Half Life, which manage to accomplish that even better than CP2077 since they don't even interrupt the flow of gameplay for long dialogues.

Although i can't say i like the "walk and talk" segments, at least not when they impose artificial restrictions on the player (like a forced walk). In CP for example you can still move around like normal, even during dialogue, and when you're "locked" into a coversation its in a natural way (like having you sit down). Not to mention you can still skip the dialogue if you want, so overall its a good execution of the concept
 
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Amiga

Member
Having a story doesn't make it cinematic.

Bloodborn uses the environment to tell a lot of it's story like cinema, the design of almost everything is part of telling a narrative. same way Shadow of the colossus is a climatic game.

Imagine playing Ace Attorney and complaining the game is text-heavy?
You can click past the text. I read fast and get the gist so don't need the slow text.

Death Stranding actually had a great skip system for the delivery scenes. Just needs a fast forward/rewind option. all games do. Even Cyberpunk had me do mundane things before I could move things along.

I just finished Bloodborne recently and I have no idea what the story was.
same with many movies.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Bloodborn uses the environment to tell a lot of it's story like cinema, the design of almost everything is part of telling a narrative. same way Shadow of the colossus is a climatic game.
I think we just understand "cinematic games" as different concepts. (y)

For me, "cinematic" doesn't mean telling a story. It means doing so in a way similar as movies do: lots of dialogue, lots of cutscenes, lots of camera moving, etc... Something like Uncharted would qualify, while something like Fallout 4 or Bloodborne wouldn't, even if those have lots of story may be in dialogue or their environments.

Just my opinion ofc.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
to be frank while i don't think bloodborne is a good example of a cinematic gameplay focused game (as oxymoronic as that sounds) you can always look towards max payne 3 for that. The shooting gameplay in that game IS cinematic. It takes a LOT of cues from action movies like the matrix, killer bean and john wick. Cinematic games and gameplay can be executed without completely taking control out of the players hands- you just have to fine tune the gameplay to the point where it feels like a movie.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Nope, nope, nope, nope. You leave my properly directed with beautiful camera angles cutscenes alone. It's a reward for a gameplay section that you just completed, you can play Pacman or something if that bothers you.
Dude, if you view cutscenes as "rewards" for gameplay sections and not something that interrupts the gameplay, i'm pretty sure
1. the game you're playing in question has bad gameplay and is thus shit
2. video games aren't for you
 
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Edgelord79

Gold Member
Anything that doesn’t allow you skip long cutscenes or long walk sequences is bad game design in my opinion.

If it’s skippable, then I couldn’t care less if the developers want to play Martin Scorsese. If it’s bad, I’ll skip it, if it’s good I’ll watch it.
 

Batiman

Banned
I agree with OP. Don’t mind some cutscenes and actually like them somewhat. Some games are just too much though. Uncharted 4 was ridiculous to me. Sometimes I have a bit of time to play and when I do Its like I watched an episode of something on TV or just pushed the joystick forward for a half hour. Yes these are story driven games but they must remember they’re still games. Just compare UC4 to UC1. Shit went overboard to me.

They used to be cool moments that give you a cool break from the gameplay. Now they’ve taken over the game. Not all games are like this obviously. But I see a lot of games going this way more and more
 

Quantum253

Member
Worst offender in this category is Final Fantasy 7 Remake.

I don't need a 3 second "cutscene" of the character pulling the lever, just pull it ffs...
I think it was either Far Cry 4 or Assassins Creed Black Flag (either or a Ubisoft game) where there were item pickup/loot/harvest animations just long enough to piss you off. After several dozen hours, I was completely over wanting to open/gather/harvest anything because I didn't want to see these in-game animations. It wasn't until almost 80+ hours in did I find you could disable these animations in the menu. I look every time now. Makes me wonder what developers are thinking with these couple-second animations in a game that will be 80-100 hrs of playtime.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Play something else. Not every game Is for you. I personally hate games with a lot of text. But you won't see me bitching about it because some people loves that crap

It's funny how yiu mention cyberpunk when when mist of you fo is just listening to the other character talking with no end while you siting there for half hour... interactive 🙄
 
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SLB1904

Banned
Because its a GAME I enjoy...The gameplay is unique and an experience I cant get anywhere else. Again its one of my favorite games ever. But the cutscenes are overly long and get in the way of the best part of the VIDEO GAME.
You can skip cutscenes in those games. The is literally a skip button.
 

ksdixon

Member
Im sort of opposite to you, OP. I hate the gamification of actions. Not just qte stuff that should otherwise just be a normal cutscene, but also crap like bash this meter out so Lara Croft can struggle this pick axe and jimmy the door lock. For as many games let me turn that action into a hold instead of a button mash, best believe I turn that on.
 
Im sort of opposite to you, OP. I hate the gamification of actions. Not just qte stuff that should otherwise just be a normal cutscene, but also crap like bash this meter out so Lara Croft can struggle this pick axe and jimmy the door lock. For as many games let me turn that action into a hold instead of a button mash, best believe I turn that on.
I respect that...qte is a poor implementation of what I'm talking about. Feels like an after thought. I think a game would have to be designed from thee ground up to make cut scenes interactive in an interesting way. Spiderman and miles morales does it pretty well...doing exposition dumps during gameplay moments. They have their fair share of cutscenes but it never feels overly long.
 
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Amiga

Member
I think we just understand "cinematic games" as different concepts. (y)

For me, "cinematic" doesn't mean telling a story. It means doing so in a way similar as movies do: lots of dialogue, lots of cutscenes, lots of camera moving, etc... Something like Uncharted would qualify, while something like Fallout 4 or Bloodborne wouldn't, even if those have lots of story may be in dialogue or their environments.

Just my opinion ofc.
Even movies do cinema bad these days. very formulaic and little art. on rare occasions you can get a Dune where a lot of it's story is conveyed by the imagery and costume design. you can't do Dune on a Star Trek type production where most of the story is conveyed by lots of dialoged by characters sitting on the ship bridge or walking in it's corridors.

but I digress.
 
Even movies do cinema bad these days. very formulaic and little art. on rare occasions you can get a Dune where a lot of it's story is conveyed by the imagery and costume design. you can't do Dune on a Star Trek type production where most of the story is conveyed by lots of dialoged by characters sitting on the ship bridge or walking in it's corridors.

but I digress.
Check out everything everywhere all at once...that did it in a superb way. But cinematic to me doesn't automatically mean passive. I think for the most part gamers look at cinematic as putting the controller down and watching, but I think a game can remain both cinematic and interactive.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
So recently I started replayed death stranding directors cut since its on PS Plus essential...I love death stranding a bunch and its a top 10 game of all time for me. But an issue I have with this game that I started having with cinematic games in general is the amount of times that I have to put the controller down to watch a ton of cut scenes. Idk why so many games require you to put the controller down for extended periods of time. The part of this hobby we all enjoy is the playing more than the watching. Using cyberpunk as an example for the most part they traded in traditional cutscenes for a play like structure where you follow characters around an environment, and can still interact during dialogue dumps. I don't see why games like TLOU, Death stranding, MGS, and even some rockstar games (to a lesser extent). Games design needs to be designed around keeping the controller in your hand, because all to often we are asked to put it down. Theres already a medium for passive watching.
Doesn't cinematic games mean the games are more cinematic?
 

RPSleon

Member
So recently I started replayed death stranding directors cut since its on PS Plus essential...I love death stranding a bunch and its a top 10 game of all time for me. But an issue I have with this game that I started having with cinematic games in general is the amount of times that I have to put the controller down to watch a ton of cut scenes. Idk why so many games require you to put the controller down for extended periods of time. The part of this hobby we all enjoy is the playing more than the watching. Using cyberpunk as an example for the most part they traded in traditional cutscenes for a play like structure where you follow characters around an environment, and can still interact during dialogue dumps. I don't see why games like TLOU, Death stranding, MGS, and even some rockstar games (to a lesser extent). Games design needs to be designed around keeping the controller in your hand, because all to often we are asked to put it down. Theres already a medium for passive watching.
Half life stands out to me as the first game i remember thinking "its great that i can still walk around and do shit if i want to while this persons talking or performing an action".

I felt so immersed, and I listened more too because im present in the situation, not just watching it.

Theres no break from it that makes you change your level of interection or concentration.

BUT. If you are going to let me move, DO NOT FORCE ME TO ONLY WALK. This does my head in. Gears of War was the worst offender in my memory. Id rather watch a cutscene than be forced to perform a really boring, frustrating action.

EDIT: i wanted to add that i adore some games that are heavy on cutscenes. But there are some games that would be better without.
 
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This. Quite a bit worse, and I hate cutscenes you can't skip, but any sort of section where the game basically stops "playing" and instead forces you to walk on a path listening to dialog is even worse..
Returnal does it pretty well too by keeping cut scenes to a minimum but telling a concise story. Some do it better than others but it's very possible.
 
Cutscenes are infinitely better at showing narrative/story than anything in gameplay, no matter how well crafted. The best case scenario for "storytelling through gameplay" is essentially you getting hooked into the story and "setting down your controller" to see what happens, usually what ends up happening is you're running around, or messing around while the story is unfolding, or being distracted from the story because you're focusing on the gameplay. I have no interest in 10+ minute cutscenes either but if you're trying to allow video games to have super compelling narratives, characters, plot, setting, etc. etc. etc. cutscenes will always be the better way to do it. "Storytelling through gameplay" is good for games built around deep lore while trying to be vague/cryptic (like Soulsborne games as you mentioned earlier), or games where the plot is just filler that 99.9% of people won't care about, but that's about it
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Half life stands out to me as the first game i remember thinking "its great that i can still walk around and do shit if i want to while this persons talking or performing an action".

I felt so immersed, and I listened more too because im present in the situation, not just watching it.

Theres no break from it that makes you change your level of interection or concentration.

BUT. If you are going to let me move, DO NOT FORCE ME TO ONLY WALK. This does my head in. Gears of War was the worst offender in my memory. Id rather watch a cutscene than be forced to perform a really boring, frustrating action.
The opening credits of Half Life were a revelation when it first came out.
 
Half life stands out to me as the first game i remember thinking "its great that i can still walk around and do shit if i want to while this persons talking or performing an action".

I felt so immersed, and I listened more too because im present in the situation, not just watching it.

Theres no break from it that makes you change your level of interection or concentration.

BUT. If you are going to let me move, DO NOT FORCE ME TO ONLY WALK. This does my head in. Gears of War was the worst offender in my memory. Id rather watch a cutscene than be forced to perform a really boring, frustrating action.
Yea, the slow walk isn't great either lol. I'm trying to think of cutscene free games that do it well. Stanely parable is dope, every game doesn't need a narrator tho...said edith finch, every story dump basically being a scene/ gameplay loop of its own was cool as fuck.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Call of Duty Vanguard’s walk sequence was boring and it didn’t add anything besides a walking gallery to the campaign. If it’s impactful then great, but I felt like it was just showing off some furniture in a house.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I think we just understand "cinematic games" as different concepts. (y)

For me, "cinematic" doesn't mean telling a story. It means doing so in a way similar as movies do: lots of dialogue, lots of cutscenes, lots of camera moving, etc... Something like Uncharted would qualify, while something like Fallout 4 or Bloodborne wouldn't, even if those have lots of story may be in dialogue or their environments.

Just my opinion ofc.

An accurate opinion, in my eyes. The OP is calling Bloodborne "cinematic". Sorry, but that is obviously absurd. TLOU is more cinematic. Games like that have a massive story to tell and they have massive "cinematic" quality. This is what the OP is complaining about somehow.

Millions of gamers enjoy these "cinematic" games that the OP does not. Again, not all games are for all gamers. If you don't like a game or a game genre.....fucking get over it and play something else.

Why is this hard?
 
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If you don't like a game or a game genre.....fucking get over it and play something else.
love death stranding a bunch and its a top 10 game of all time for me.
Franita Tolson GIF by GIPHY News
 
People that skip cutscenes and that for some reason require that the character must be running all the time should spare others from their take on storytelling.

You are not fooling anyone. If you don't have the patience to handle brief cutscenes I very much doubt that you'll be reading logs, item descriptions or putting together environmental story telling.

Half life stands out to me as the first game i remember thinking "its great that i can still walk around and do shit if i want to while this persons talking or performing an action".

I felt so immersed, and I listened more too because im present in the situation, not just watching it.

Theres no break from it that makes you change your level of interection or concentration.

BUT. If you are going to let me move, DO NOT FORCE ME TO ONLY WALK. This does my head in. Gears of War was the worst offender in my memory. Id rather watch a cutscene than be forced to perform a really boring, frustrating action.
Do you run everywhere in life? Do you understand the concept that in some situations running makes no sense? Even in Half-life, you are not meant to be doing stupid shit while the story is taking place, the devs a massive effort in making sure you'll be looking at the right places.
 
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Cutscenes are a good time for some refreshments. Eat some treats and goodies. Take a few swigs of your favorite caffeinated alcoholic beverage, and maybe a few drags of the ol' reefer too.
 
Cinematic doesn't inherently mean passive. Bloodborne is a cinematic game to me. When you get into a good flow its as cinematic as some of the best action movies. But when applying cinematic to a game I think designers to find a way to keep the experience interactive. Supermassive games are cinematic but you know to keep the controller in your hand.
League Of Legends Reaction GIF by G2 Esports
 

Azurro

Banned
Bloodborne has great imbedded storytelling.

Bloodborne is not story driven in the least. The games have great lore if you care to find it, but even the story sequences are nonsensical because there's zero context for them. It's one of my favorite games ever and the best PS4 game of all time, but it just isn't story driven.

Now, OP here prefers to jump around like a retard while somebody talks like in Bioshock or listen to mp3 files while walking. I'd rather see things happen on screen, not hear about them.
 

Azurro

Banned
Dude, if you view cutscenes as "rewards" for gameplay sections and not something that interrupts the gameplay, i'm pretty sure
1. the game you're playing in question has bad gameplay and is thus shit
2. video games aren't for you

That's a bad take. If I'm fighting against, say, Metal Gear Rex and I take it down, it's a reward to see where the story goes next. The gameplay can be good and also the cutscenes can be good.

What is a disservice is mp3 files playing to lazily tell the story to the player (MGS5, I'm looking at you, biggest storytelling disappointment in my life), or having the character stuck in a room with the other character behind some window and you just end up jumping like a retard while the yapping ends. It's not aesthetic, it's a bad way to present the story. If you have ADHD and just hate seeing cutscenes, then avoid story driven games.
 

tommib

Member
Cinematic doesn't inherently mean passive. Bloodborne is a cinematic game to me. When you get into a good flow its as cinematic as some of the best action movies. But when applying cinematic to a game I think designers to find a way to keep the experience interactive. Supermassive games are cinematic but you know to keep the controller in your hand.
Bloodborne? Cinematic? What the fuck, dude? Your whole OP is a joke after that one.
 

Maestr0

Member
I remember when I was playing The wonderful 101, I felt tired because it was so intense as a game I had to put the controller down, that was so weird at the time.
 

Three

Member
Dude, if you view cutscenes as "rewards" for gameplay sections and not something that interrupts the gameplay, i'm pretty sure
1. the game you're playing in question has bad gameplay and is thus shit
2. video games aren't for you
It just means he values being told a good story in a video game with good pacing and production value because the alternative that so many other games go towards are audio logs, emails, notes, where you just stop and read or listen anyway. The other is forced confinement in a chair, monorail, car or walking to try and get somebody to tell you a story. All of which that you don't actually see or experience for yourself.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Huge disagree. Skippable cutscenes are perfectly fine in games. I hate what the OP is describing where you follow an NPC around while dialogue or exposition happens. Thats not interactive or fun. Thats just a badly shot cutscene that you can’t skip unlike, say, Metal Gear where its a well shot cutscene that you CAN skip if you want.
 
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RPSleon

Member
People that skip cutscenes and that for some reason require that the character must be running all the time should spare others from their take on storytelling.

You are not fooling anyone. If you don't have the patience to handle brief cutscenes I very much doubt that you'll be reading logs, item descriptions or putting together environmental story telling.


Do you run everywhere in life? Do you understand the concept that in some situations running makes no sense? Even in Half-life, you are not meant to be doing stupid shit while the story is taking place, the devs a massive effort in making sure you'll be looking at the right places.
To assume we skip cutscenes because we prefer to remain in control of our character, and to think continued control means we wanna run around is a really poor take. Sometimes, its nice to just look around between characters who are talking, or position yourself in a place where you feel is natural for you personally. I mean, there alot more to it but thats an easy example.

Its not about patience. You quoted me but seemingly totally missed my point.

Youre really gonna assume people who want continued unrestricted movement arent going to be paying attention when characters are talking? That we want unrestricted movement so we can "be running all the time"?

Ofcourse we arent saying we want to run all the time, we just want to have the choice to interact with the world how ever we choose, and as were here assuming, id assume that most people will choose to pay attention and observe the important events. But freedom of movement while doing that keeps you in character. Which also means being more engaged in the environmental story telling, reading logs and item descriptions.

Unrestricted movement doesnt mean "doing stupid shit while the story is taking place".

This isnt to say i am always against cut scenes. A game like the last of us, with incredible cutscenes works well. But there are alot of games where story could be handled with more freedom.
 

RPSleon

Member
Huge disagree. Skippable cutscenes are perfectly fine in games. I hate what the OP is describing where you follow an NPC around while dialogue or exposition happens. Thats not interactive or fun. Thats just a badly shot cutscene that you can’t skip unlike, say, Metal Gear where its a well shot cutscene that you CAN skip if you want.
I think i agree with some of what youre saying. I dont personally ever skip story, but games without cutscenes should still have their story sections be engaging and well written.
Often the games that do it well manage to keep the sections that stop the flow to a minimum and keep the story moving during gameplay, not just stop your progress while talking.

Half life as an example too has parts where you may have stopped and find yourself listening to what someones saying, or watching what they're doing, but its usually something thats pushing your progress.

I think wanting to skip story sections like cutscenes could be another topic.
 
Some people are extremely impatient.How do you guys read anything?Enjoy the cutscenes when they are over you can play the game again.I love the cutscenes in games like Resident Evil could watch them over and over again with wesker so amazing.
 
Dude, if you view cutscenes as "rewards" for gameplay sections and not something that interrupts the gameplay, i'm pretty sure
1. the game you're playing in question has bad gameplay and is thus shit
2. video games aren't for you
Looks like someone never played a classic Blizzard game.
 
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