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Gaming has NOT evolved since 2007 (Diminishing Returns)
- Thread starter TheBROgamer
- Start date
Negotiator101
Member
And what game is that then?
Guilty_AI
Member
I'm not the one buying these games tho
. Go complain to the people paying full price for dumb crap like Forbidden West and Saints Row day 1.
existensmaximum
Member
Actually, gaming has evolved significantly
The end
The end
TheBROgamer
Banned
Enlighten us.
KXVXII9X
Member
You beat me to it!
Even a very simplistic game like Superhot VR is a huge leap in immersion alone. You can also now do two different things simultaneously like shooting a gun, while ducking, and using a bottle as a shield. Being inside a game feels amazing.
TheBROgamer
Banned
Don’t give a shit. If I’m having fun with a game, that’s all that matters to me.
Also, compare the original Demons Souls to Elden Ring. If one is incapable of seeing a significant leap there, then I’m at a loss for words.
Is asking for fun gameplay AND graphic/AI/and physics evolution too much?
All this powerful hardware, and yet minimal jumps from an overall viewpoint.
Rykan
Member
Okay that's cheating. All Bethesda games are the same.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Think of any big franchise. CoD, Battlefield, all the sports games, the car games, whatever. Now compare recent games to games from 15 years ago. You'll realize that not much has changed. Graphics are a bit better. Scope is maybe a bit bigger. There are some new gameplay modes (mostly those which flood players with MTX). That's about it. The games, at their core, have basically stayed the same.
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Doom85
Member
If you get hung up on tiny details, good for you, but don’t expect a good deal of the world to feel the same way.
You’re like one of those people who are all, “Bloodborne is unplayable at 30FPS!”. Meanwhile, the rest of us were having a blast with it.
I’m just saying, I’m having fun, and it seems like you’re not or at least are letting yourself get hung up on minor elements. I personally would rather be in my shoes, just saying.
Also, as others have pointed out, pretty weak example with Saints Row since the newest game was a technical mess. Meanwhile, I point out the Soulsborne franchise and I get crickets from you on that example…
U n i o n 0015
Member
I agree that for most genres, gameplay hasn't really evolved but the workflow pipeline for developers has definitely improved.
You can develop a better-looking and playing game with less effort now than you could in 2005.
You can develop a better-looking and playing game with less effort now than you could in 2005.
TheBROgamer
Banned
Exactly, where games are today vs where we expected them to be given progress of the prior years is not sufficient.
These companies are NOT your friend, and deserve to be held accountable.
It's okay to be critical about gaming.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Ironically, your example only helps the OP's point. Demon's Souls remake is the exact same game as the original from 2009, just with better graphics.
kyussman
Member
I mean Bethesda open world game,Skyrim is the fantasy version,Fallout is the post apocalyptic version.....feels like Starfield will be the sci-fi version.
TheBROgamer
Banned
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Doom85
Member
It doesn’t. I specifically said the ORIGINAL Demons Souls to Elden Ring. The remake is irrelevant to bring up especially as it wasn’t even the Souls developer who handled it.
Guilty_AI
Member
Yes it is, because you have no idea how increasingly difficult achieving those things has become.
Settle for less (and naturally pay proportionaly less), and suddenly you'll have so much cool stuff to play that you'll be complaining about lack of time. You might even start realizing not every game needs to have all of those things at once to be enjoyable, or even better than the ones that try to, some may even be revolutionary.
Or you can drop gaming as a hobby, or perhaps keep spending $70 for games that just make you feel bitter. Your choice.
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hemo memo
Gold Member
Because people keep buying them. No matter how bad or how little the next game change, people just buy them and companies will still release them.
TheBROgamer
Banned
Did you just tell us gamers who have standards and hold companies accountable to....settle?
Elevate your standards.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Ah, I have misread your post. Still, while I agree that the jump from DeS to ER is decently big, when you look at the big picture, ER doesn't do many new things compared to open world RPGs from 15 years ago. It's an iteration on the open world RPG formula (by applying the souls-like gameplay and exploration).
GymWolf
Gold Member
Of course they have a lot to show, but physic wise? I'm not sure if we are gonna see much, hopefully i'm wrong.
Onestly, i would call a victory if by this gen we can have actually smart AI instead of moronic and suicidal ones (and yes, i'm also talking about la creme de la merd tlou2)
GymWolf
Gold Member
Console are always the base point for everything, if ps5 had a 3090 inside you can be sure that games would be made with those specs in mind and then downgraded for low end pc\console users.
Tech has to go forward, we can't wait people with 15 old hardware ffs.
Guilty_AI
Member
Your "gamers with standards" are the ones paying $70 for shitty games and keeping said companies afloat. Not me.Did you just tell us gamers who have standards and hold companies accountable to....settle?
Elevate your standards.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
There's something fucky going on with that Forbidden West picture. Legit bad changes to the character model aside, it looks like it's been compressed to look worse than Zero Dawn.
hemo memo
Gold Member
You obviously didn’t play the original if that what you think.
Doom85
Member
Execution > originality as far as I’m concerned.
Honestly, I just don’t give a shit about some of the things OP is focused on. For example, Nier Automata was my GOTY of 2017. The characters and story were fantastic, the combat flowed well and was super fun, the music was superb, and also cool how shmup gameplay was included as well. But I am aware the game did not run perfectly, there were better graphics at the time, etc. But all the things that made the game fun and mesmerizing for me were what mattered. I feel if I get hung on stuff like this, all I would be doing would be making myself less happy.
I feel OP could benefit from seeing this and maybe thinking about it for a moment. It’s a good philosophy and it has nothing to do with “settling” but learning to love what is enjoyable right in front of you:
hemo memo
Gold Member
Let them. They are paying the bills and we can get the games they pay for full price for part of subscription cost only 1-2 years later.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I played the original, but I haven't played the remake. What's different? I heard some small QoL changes happened, but that can't be what you mean.
TheBROgamer
Banned
Gamers with standards are the ones standing up and calling out these companies for the stagnation, that has proliferated the market.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah and that's why i said that realistic looking physics is the heaviest shit ever, that was an example.
But we can concur that starting from a way better baseline should give us closer results than a shittier baseline, isn't?
Skifi28
Gold Member
Publishers and developers are out to make money. Nobody's targetting as a baseline a 1500+ dollar GPU very few people have, consoles or not. People should be thankful the new consoles are as cutting edge as they are with even ray tracing.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I don't really disagree with you. I'm part of the problem since I'll be buying my second Pokemon game just this yearExecution > originality as far as I’m concerned.
Honestly, I just don’t give a shit about some of the things OP is focused on. For example, Nier Automata was my GOTY of 2017. The characters and story were fantastic, the combat flowed well and was super fun, the music was superb, and also cool how shmup gameplay was included as well. But I am aware the game did not run perfectly, there were better graphics at the time, etc. But all the things that made the game fun and mesmerizing for me were what mattered. I feel if I get hung on stuff like this, all I would be doing would be making myself less happy.
I feel OP could benefit from seeing this and maybe thinking about it for a moment. It’s a good philosophy and it has nothing to do with “settling” but learning to love what is enjoyable right in front of you:
This would make sense if the OP wasn't comparing screenshots for graphics.
GymWolf
Gold Member
No i'm sorry, i'm not gonna say thanks to people who don't wanna spend more than 500 dollars for something with a lifespan of 7-8 years that gave you thousand of hours of entartainment.
My idea was of course appliable in a ideal world where nerds were not such cheap fucks (only when it comes to vg tho), i know by myself that a ps5 with a 3090 would never fly in modern times, i mean it's not like you can buy everything and paying a fixed amount every month...
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Thaedolus
Gold Member
It says something about the immersion VR offers, even in a game that looks like as simplistic as Superhot, that as I was ducking down behind a bench, I reached out to grab it to brace myself…which resulted in me tumbling over a bit since it wasn’t actually there. My wife and sister who were there taking turns playing it with me had a good laugh.
Guilty_AI
Member
And still giving them money while at it apparently.
but complaining on the internet is suuure to bring much better results than cutting their baselines /s
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Skifi28
Gold Member
Yeah, I'm not sure what to say to this other than people these days can have trouble footing the bill when it comes to electricity and gas. Few will spend over a thousand dollars on a freaking GPU alone. I also still have 1060 which I will milk as long as I can to avoid paying a fuckton of money for something with twice the wattage. Perhaps we should also be blaming Nvidia and AMD for how expensive and power-hungry decent GPUs are when 500 dollars would get you the best of the best some years ago.
Guilty_AI
Member
That depends, as i said, even if we get to a point where implementing stuff like this becomes possible in real time, you still need to see if the performance costs are worth it.
You'd need to consider things like "is having this ultra realistic looking bread with advanced loafing physics really worth the 30 fps drop in this game about shooting zombies?"
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Kataploom
Gold Member
OP cites Crysis as if that game wasn't, graphically and mechanically, a gen above whatever 360 and PS3 could dream to achieve... But apart from that, I agree in everything, I just don't care, I like games have standards so I don't have to re-learn controls and so on with each game. Indies and AA take those risks BTW, they have smarter budgets too most of the time. Games cannot be just "bigger and better looking" out of magic, people have to work on them and that costs money and time, that's the actual bottleneck even if we had consoles 10 times more powerful at a third of the price.
The limit is the budget, not the power, they can do very creative stuff nowadays and they do, but always within small budgets because they risk being out of business if they mess up. That's gaming industry for you, not bad or good, just what it is and what always have been.
Like... it has always done? Business has never not been a part of gaming, without it gaming wouldn't even exist at all, the thing is that the industry matured enough to set enough templates and standards that are good for business and people asking for more content, more physics, more this, more that, more, more, more; won't understand that budgets has increased a lot, risks are way above and tools while they've evolved, the expectations and demands have increased way beyond what they can do within a reasonable budget.
The limit is the budget, not the power, they can do very creative stuff nowadays and they do, but always within small budgets because they risk being out of business if they mess up. That's gaming industry for you, not bad or good, just what it is and what always have been.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Sure the situation is not optimal between recession, electricity bills etc.
But it was always like this even 10 or 15 years ago when the situation was much better, gamers always has been cheap fucks and i'm sorry but if apple can sell dozens of millions of iphones for 1800 euros (yeah you heard that right), i'm sure that there is a market for premium console aswell.
At a certain point i just have to think for myself as a nerd enthusiast, too bad for people who can't buy at day one but i'm not gonna feel guilty if i want more from my hobby.
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darthkarki
Member
The comparison below represents a generation apart, PS4 on left/PS5 on right.
That is the definition of diminishing returns and why the gen to gen jump, has been minimizing.
For the most part I agree with the premise - I wouldn't say it has not evolved, but naturally as you get closer to reality, each improvement gets harder to notice. However, I keep seeing this stupid image above which is horribly misleading and needs to be stop being used. It looks like crappy screenshots of crappy youtube videos that have then been blown out and oversaturated - not to mention the fact that the shot on the right from HFW isn't even from the game, it's from a prerelease demo. If you're going to show a comparison between two games, get some screenshots that actually show what those games look like, because the difference is massive:
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hemo memo
Gold Member
60fps alone is worth it with the remake as the original performance was terrible. Also the game is part of PS Extra subscription.