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Halo Has Not Met Financial Expectations - Brad Sams
- Thread starter Pelta88
- Start date
Pelta88
Member
Your whimsical notions?
Numbers don't lie and I was surprised by your initial claims which is why I asked for the receipts. But you have none. Just your own skewed analysis which you're choosing to present as facts.
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Banjo64
cumsessed
As you say, it’s just opinion presented as fact.
How is Halo only behind Minecraft and Forza Horizon 5 in terms of popularity? Sea of Thieves (a paid release) is neck and neck with Infinite in the UK Xbox charts. However, the peak monthly Steam player count for Sea of Thieves has been between 25 and 35k for the last 6 months. Halo’s free to play component hasn’t surpassed 8.6k in the last 4 months.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
I think its unfair to use Sea of Thieves being neck and neck in the UK, your much better off showing this example that has consistantly been more played than Halo in the UK for months now.
Farming Simulator is crushing it.
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Ghost of Caelid
Banned
Yes, because people who are trying to console war will say the game is bad when the game itself isn't bad but the management of the service. Nuance doesn't exist in console wars. Infinite has some of the best feeling fps gameplay in the industry. Two seasons in one year is an embarrassment.
01011001
Banned
343i was the Halo killer all along...
Spitfire098
Member
I guess my other comment hit too close to home
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s not about the game being bad but unremarkable, and Halo being a victim of expectations.
The whole great feeling fps gameplay is highly overstated here, as if that isn’t the basics when it comes to a FPS with the level of aspirations Halo has. The first tone was called Combat Evolved.
You know a game that had great feeling gunplay? Rage.
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Jimmy_liv
Member
This.
I'm a huge xbox fan but after all these years of running xbox, Phil Spencer is still reliant on Gears, Forza and Halo to sell its consoles!
Absolute insanity that he hasn't managed to get out more stella IP's during his whole tenure
You only have to look across the road at Nintendo to realise that you can have dogshit hardware but providing you have the software you will still move units.
Xbox is so focused on being 'the worlds most powerful console' which without dedicated system sellers that get the most from the hardware, it serves no purpose.
When your direct competitor is PlayStation which has both games and hardware you really are screwed without dedicated IP's which move the needle.
Every May/June/E3 showcase I say 'this year will be Xbox's year.'
After 7 years of Phil Spencer in charge and ive yet to see there year.
Hes as responsible for this whole debacle as Bonnie Ross and 343 are.
Scotty W
Member
I have not had the opportunity to play Halo since 3, but it looks like all the games that are coming out are really good.
The problem, though, is that each game is basically the same gameplay wise, and the story is basically a spent force. Master Chief was a decent character and his arc in 1-3 was pretty good, but the story world is pretty generic sci-fi stuff, with very little character.
To try to pin an unending franchise on such a weak foundation may result in some really good games, but in the age of absurd development costs, there us just no way this series can live up to the hype.
The problem, though, is that each game is basically the same gameplay wise, and the story is basically a spent force. Master Chief was a decent character and his arc in 1-3 was pretty good, but the story world is pretty generic sci-fi stuff, with very little character.
To try to pin an unending franchise on such a weak foundation may result in some really good games, but in the age of absurd development costs, there us just no way this series can live up to the hype.
semiconscious
Member
y'know, for whatever reason, this'd never occurred to me. as much as game pass has revitalized the xbox, it looks like acquiring existing successful ips is spencer's preference over creating any new ones...
YOU PC BRO?!
Member
Current Halo is a shadow of its former self.
To summarise, mediocre in almost every regard. It would be hilarious due to the wasted investment if it wasn't so damned tragic. Internally, I picture working at 343 to be a breeze; no momentum, deliverables constantly being pushed back and most of the working day consisting of anti-bias training and thumb twiddling. Key decisions are most likely made via a diversity hire clown college. They probably spent more time coming up with the plan to desexualise Cortana than fleshing out a compelling narrative for the franchise.
These are the things that need to be addressed as far as I can tell...
I think its time Microsoft should just put Halo out of its misery. It's like an undefeated champion boxer returning to the ring after a lengthy retirement and losing 5 fights in a row. At some point all you are doing is ruining your legacy.
To summarise, mediocre in almost every regard. It would be hilarious due to the wasted investment if it wasn't so damned tragic. Internally, I picture working at 343 to be a breeze; no momentum, deliverables constantly being pushed back and most of the working day consisting of anti-bias training and thumb twiddling. Key decisions are most likely made via a diversity hire clown college. They probably spent more time coming up with the plan to desexualise Cortana than fleshing out a compelling narrative for the franchise.
These are the things that need to be addressed as far as I can tell...
- Lacklustre story (not at all compelling and completely lacking the gravitas of previous entries)
- Unremarkable characters (perhaps one day we may be granted a worthy antagonist?)
- Lore incongruity (retcons have damaged the franchise)
- Lack of creativity and innovation (move the needle, open world concept felt empty and unremarkable)
- Identity crisis (incoherent vision between releases i.e. Halo 4 COD wannabe)
- Missing or late features (i.e. forge mode, split screen coop, RT, multiplayer replay system etc.)
- Technical competence (the game is poor visually, engine doesn't make use of the latest technologies like RT, Series S/X hardware features not utilised)
- No passion (the game feels like a soulless husk - more unique content and set pieces)
I think its time Microsoft should just put Halo out of its misery. It's like an undefeated champion boxer returning to the ring after a lengthy retirement and losing 5 fights in a row. At some point all you are doing is ruining your legacy.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
This is true. I was looking at it from today's perspective but you're right, MS doesn't want to continue to lose money and surely either GP's price will go up or game budgets will go down
LavitzSlambert
Member
This has Microsoft written all over it. At the end of the day, they are IT as a business, and they run the Xbox division like the rest of the business. Phil Spencer seems genuine in wanting to have the best games, but I don’t see it ever happening unless Microsoft’s culture changes. Too much focus on the platform and the tech, and monetization, not enough focus on the games themselves. If they make a good product, money will come. The problem is they are skipping that crucial step and wondering what went wrong.
Jaybe
Member
Yeah. At its core it was the fun, social party FPS in the console space like Mario Kart and Smash are to Racing and fighters. Those missing features from your list, took away from the social fun that Halo was at its peak with Halo Reach. They chased e-sports and CoD too much. Pushed monetization over fun.Current Halo is a shadow of its former self.
To summarise, mediocre in almost every regard. It would be hilarious due to the wasted investment if it wasn't so damned tragic. Internally, I picture working at 343 to be a breeze; no momentum, deliverables constantly being pushed back and most of the working day consisting of anti-bias training and thumb twiddling. Key decisions are most likely made via a diversity hire clown college. They probably spent more time coming up with the plan to desexualise Cortana than fleshing out a compelling narrative for the franchise.
These are the things that need to be addressed as far as I can tell...
The least 343 could do is acknowledge their deficiencies and assure us fans that things will start moving in the right direction. The uncomfortable truth is that Halo hasn't been relevant since 343 took the reins. At this point we have moved way past embarrassing to just plain sad. This is Halo we are talking about. Likely, Microsoft would no longer be in the console space at all if it wasn't due to the success of this franchise.
- Lacklustre story (not at all compelling and completely lacking the gravitas of previous entries)
- Unremarkable characters (perhaps one day we may be granted a worthy antagonist?)
- Lore incongruity (retcons have damaged the franchise)
- Lack of creativity and innovation (move the needle, open world concept felt empty and unremarkable)
- Identity crisis (incoherent vision between releases i.e. Halo 4 COD wannabe)
- Missing or late features (i.e. forge mode, split screen coop, RT, multiplayer replay system etc.)
- Technical competence (the game is poor visually, engine doesn't make use of the latest technologies like RT, Series S/X hardware features not utilised)
- No passion (the game feels like a soulless husk - more unique content and set pieces)
I think its time Microsoft should just put Halo out of its misery. It's like an undefeated champion boxer returning to the ring after a lengthy retirement and losing 5 fights in a row. At some point all you are doing is ruining your legacy.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
No matter how good or complete Halo was, it'll never last in modern age of shooters. Put it to pasture.
Or totally change it up and take a stab at a Halo RPG in the same vein as Fallout or Mass Effect with lots of RPG elements.
Or totally change it up and take a stab at a Halo RPG in the same vein as Fallout or Mass Effect with lots of RPG elements.
Pelta88
Member
Neogaf post of the fucking year. You can't tell me differently. If you're a gamer with love for XBOX like most of us here, then you can't help but feel this post.
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Jaguar Victory
Member
Halo Infinite was great. It's multiplayer is outdated though.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
This is a pretty interesting perspective from the company that was formally pushing TV TV TV and now has the most popular GAME subscription service. They also develop and release the most diverse series of GAMES. To hold up Halo Infinite as the model of MS development and ignore titles like Forza Horizon, Flight Simulator, Sea of Thieves and Grounded is clearly looking at a glass as half empty.
The platform, tech and even the monetization have all been pretty good from MS. Of course many here ignore that MS hasn't raised prices on their games, charged upgrade fees for games, or raised prices for their hardware. They were the only platform to even offer a platform for gamers who were more budget focused. It seems like they have been quite focused on games and gamers too. Compare how MS handled the planned price hike with XLG and price hikes and fees elsewhere.
Laugh all you want but they did get publisher of the year in 2021 and while this year suffered several delays, delayed games tend to get released eventually. When that happens we'll see if MS skipped the game development step. If they are skipping that step why delay the games at all? Halo Infinite seems to be a more isolated case and it will be interesting to see what the game looks like after November and March updates.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Bingo. Everything wrong with Microsoft summed up beautifully in one post.
I have been watching their conferences for almost 15 years now and they have never failed to underwhelm. I would like to say that they lost their way in the x1 era, but I saw it coming around 2009 when they started focusing on kinect. Those were some of the worst conferences ever, and no amount of third party games like Tomb Raider, CoD and Assassins Creed made me change my mind.
It's shocking to me that after watching and competing with Nintendo and Sony for 2+ decades, they still werent able to build up a first party and had to go buy games that were always coming to xbox anyway. I was a 100% certain they would show up with Perfect Dark, Fable, State of Decay, Avowed, Everwild and Hellblade given how they revealed these games 2-3 years ago and they skipped literally all of them.
Making games is not this hard. If you cant come up with a demo or a teaser 2 years after a CG reveal then you should not be in this business of making games.
Naked Lunch
Member
What 'age of modern shooters' are you even talking about?
Hero Shooter Overwatch wannabes? Fortnite knock offs? Battle Royales everywhere? COD for its 20th year in a row like Madden?
No thanks.
For my tastes, the guns/grenades/melee/shields gameplay is still unique to Halo - and is the only multiplayer FPS worth playing outside of CounterStrike and when Battlefield is actually good (ala BF2/3). Infinite mainly needs way more maps, and better designed maps. The core gameplay is there but the design focus for the maps has leaned too heavily into competitive esports. 343 needed a shakeup that is happening finally.
As for the financial expectations - they move Halo to F2P - where the things youre buying are cosmetics only. In a first person game - you cant even see the things youre buying - its just for other people to see. You have basically zero content post launch to support the F2P model. So you have to buy the campaign - but half of the Halo fanbase (maybe more?) doesnt even touch campaign in past entries. It was a flawed business decision from the jump.
HYDE
Banned
U meant after Bungie…Reach says stfu!
HYDE
Banned
And make it a TPS instead. Sold!
Amerikan
Banned
Only frat boys bought Halo back in the day and turned Xbox into murican shooter-box. Their time is up.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
My interest in this franchise has had a family emergency, and must regrettably depart from "I spend money," Studios. My thoughts also go out to the billion dollar studios who have their shit leak, that sucks.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Most of the devs are temps. A lot of them are contractors even. Way, way cheaper than full time employees.
Btw, if RDR2, with its 2000 devs is between $300-500m, how is Halo with 800 devs at $500m too? A more realistic estimate would be around $150-200m. Of course, still a shitload of money, but far away from the debunked $500m rumor.
MasterCornholio
Member
Probably why he was reply banned. Anyways he needs to reflect a little and calm down.
Pasta la Vista
Gold Member
I really loved the original trilogy and ODST. Some of the best games ever made. Played through them all again on original hardware a couple years ago and they still hold up. Never liked any of the games after, not even Reach.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I get it. Halo has grassroots in old school shooters. But the most popular ones are CODs, battle royales, hero shooters, Destiny, CS on PC etc... Even if Halo was perfect, I dont see how it comes close to the most popular shooters.
Like many, I played Unreal back in the day when sci-fi fast paced shooters were the craze. WWII and military shooters took over soon after. Now it's BRs. Games like Doom, Unreal, Halo are from generations back. Maybe their SP campaigns are still great. But MP gamers moved on long time ago.
The Battle Royale mode for Infinite hasn't yet released yet, and it's yet to be established that Infinite needs to be in the top 5 or even top 10 multiplayer games to be sustainable.
anothertech
Member
Game as a Service with no service.
recma12
Member
Gotta agree with this.
I'd also add that you need "global appeal". As far as I can tell as a German, Halo isn't all that big here in Europe.
Mainly because the OG Xbox never caught on here (price was cut in half within a year after launch, I bought one, nobody else I knew did lol).
There also were way less Credit Cards in Europe compared to the US, so signing up for Xbox Live was quite the hassle or even impossible for people.
360 did a lot better but by that time, COD4 or FIFA were the "killer apps". Halo 4 shit the bed and the Xbone was DOA here anyways.
Meanwhile CoD, Fortnite or Minecraft are just as big here as they are in the US.
Still hard to imagine how MS and 343 fucked up this aspect to badly.
Late 2021 there was so much hype and goodwill for Halo and 343 is like "Here's like two maps, you will get a new one in 6 months. Peace!"
How could they not have at least 5 to 10 legacy maps stashed away to release a new map every month?
Even if Infinite was the best FPS game ever with the best graphics, controls and audio, it wouldn't have mattered.
Shit, the CoDMW2 Beta has more content than Infinite had 6 months in.
yamaci17
Member
I was ready to commit myself to halo infinite as my go-to online game as a EU player
really, I commited a lot of time, hoping that it would be supported just like any other online fps shooter I've played with ample amounts of content and events. Rainbow 6 comes to mind, from a simple point of view. The game literally is almost no different than playing heroes of the storm. that game is practically abandoned by blizzard. yet halo infinite felt the same after 2 months of playing.
Its too late, it had some user base eu in first 3 months, later it went downhill. Most people like me that gave the game a chance abandoned it and never looked back
It was my goty for 2021 too (i haven't played it takes two yet. so i'm not putting halo infinite over it, its just that i haven't and out of all games i've played in 2021, halo infinite was the most fun). no hard feelings toward the game. it was really fun. i got really bored of classic normal type fps shooters so halo was fun to me. i even played the whole series beforehand to prepare for its arrival. i enjoyed campaign. campaign was enjoyable, I binge played it, actually for days, gameplay loop was fantastic, felt great.
I would only come back to it if they actually start caring for the game . Otherwise a no go
BusierDonkey
Member
I liked Halo Infinite as a SP game and saw great potential in the MP. I played it a lot after launch and had fun. I don't think it's a shit game, in fact it was among my favorite games last year despite its issues. It was nowhere near what was shown in early trailers but it was better than it could have been. That all changed in the months after launch.
The game became an abysmal failure as a multiplayer experience which is clearly where they were hoping to rake in the cash with shitty cosmetics like cat ears and stupid keychains. They dropped the ball hard after a successful launch. A massive portion of the player base ditched this after just a month. People that wanted to play MP for more than a month felt pretty burned by 343i's inability to make a single deadline. Delay after delay this game became an example of how not to do things and instead of reigniting the franchise it's become a joke. This is on the heels of the MCC disaster and the Halo 5 ad campaign fiasco painting the campaign as something the game wasn't. If it was a one-time issue I could excuse Xbox management for putting too much faith in the studio but the studio already had a history of releasing piecemeal games starting with Halo 4 (half the game's story released after months through the Spartan Ops mode and in a comic book), then Halo 5 released in pieces. Forge released months after launch and once again the SP campaign was a mess.
I've seen other games turn things around, MCC did after a few years, Sea of Thieves managed to become something, No Man's Sky is much more than it was, Fallout 76 is almost playable now. They have all gained some foothold and amassed a fanbase despite horrendous launches. Those games have all had massive content updates adding not only content but polishing and fixing what's already there (polished isn't quite right in the case of Fallout 76 but it's much better than it was at launch). 343i trickles almost nothing into the MP, the SP campaign hasn't seen anything in terms of major improvements. PC support is abysmal with no DLSS support, no RT update, no additions to the relatively sparse overworld, basically nothing in almost a year. For a game that was supposed to be a constantly updated platform that was supposed to last years it's sad to see it's already floundering.
The game became an abysmal failure as a multiplayer experience which is clearly where they were hoping to rake in the cash with shitty cosmetics like cat ears and stupid keychains. They dropped the ball hard after a successful launch. A massive portion of the player base ditched this after just a month. People that wanted to play MP for more than a month felt pretty burned by 343i's inability to make a single deadline. Delay after delay this game became an example of how not to do things and instead of reigniting the franchise it's become a joke. This is on the heels of the MCC disaster and the Halo 5 ad campaign fiasco painting the campaign as something the game wasn't. If it was a one-time issue I could excuse Xbox management for putting too much faith in the studio but the studio already had a history of releasing piecemeal games starting with Halo 4 (half the game's story released after months through the Spartan Ops mode and in a comic book), then Halo 5 released in pieces. Forge released months after launch and once again the SP campaign was a mess.
I've seen other games turn things around, MCC did after a few years, Sea of Thieves managed to become something, No Man's Sky is much more than it was, Fallout 76 is almost playable now. They have all gained some foothold and amassed a fanbase despite horrendous launches. Those games have all had massive content updates adding not only content but polishing and fixing what's already there (polished isn't quite right in the case of Fallout 76 but it's much better than it was at launch). 343i trickles almost nothing into the MP, the SP campaign hasn't seen anything in terms of major improvements. PC support is abysmal with no DLSS support, no RT update, no additions to the relatively sparse overworld, basically nothing in almost a year. For a game that was supposed to be a constantly updated platform that was supposed to last years it's sad to see it's already floundering.
Helghan
Member
That number has been debunked numerous times.
Mephisto40
Member
It would be interesting to know what exactly their plan was before they had to change a bunch a stuff due to the backlash the game received, such as the awful E3 reveal
Any way I look at it I just can't see how they expected this game to be a success
It's almost as if Microsoft saw that reveal, and said "You got yourselves into this mess, now you are going to get yourselves out of it"
Any way I look at it I just can't see how they expected this game to be a success
It's almost as if Microsoft saw that reveal, and said "You got yourselves into this mess, now you are going to get yourselves out of it"
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Hitchyhero
Banned
Considerably its a GaaS game it doesn't want to make you spend any money upgrading.
The only GaaS game I really play is Apex. And although I don't really spend money on it, I've bought one or two things in the past on it. The game has a dozen or so characters to unlock all with things to get (dialogue, skins, gun skins, charms, quips, board design). But it also gives you a chance to unlock them naturally.
I've never really felt the need to buy anything in Halo. the game doesn't feel like a service either as it has a lack of updates and there's nothing that really interesting to actually make you want to spend money.
The only GaaS game I really play is Apex. And although I don't really spend money on it, I've bought one or two things in the past on it. The game has a dozen or so characters to unlock all with things to get (dialogue, skins, gun skins, charms, quips, board design). But it also gives you a chance to unlock them naturally.
I've never really felt the need to buy anything in Halo. the game doesn't feel like a service either as it has a lack of updates and there's nothing that really interesting to actually make you want to spend money.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It was ONE of the problems and that's just with Infinite.
Hundreds of millions wasted.
It played great but wasn't and still isn't complete.
ByWatterson
Member
Every GAS has had growing pains, and Halo is guaranteed to survive in some way.
recma12
Member
I think in Nov 2021 we all were all super horny for Halo.
2042 was a disaster, Vanguard was meh, Xbox brand had a ton of momentum and the Halo TV show was ready to go.
Don't think any game ever had better circumstances to succeed than Infinite.
I was also ready to buy BPs and play MP regularly, the gameplay is something special, spectacular at times.
I guess most of us would have been OK if the amount of new content and the release cadence would have been inferior to CoD or Fortnite.
Everyone (reasonable persons) was pretty patient in the first weeks post launch, people enjoyed the game despite the lack of content.
I know nothing about game design or whatever but it just seems so fucking weird that 343 couldn't make (or remaster) and release even 1 new map per month.
We live in the TikTok age, people have attention spans of a few days, and here we have 343i doing 6 month seasons.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I admire your optimism but if Infinite has a few single player updates and has doubled it's map count by then, I'd call that good going at this point.
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onesvenus
Member
The opening post is talking about infinite. I don't know why should we change the subject at hand.
Other than that, content was the only problem for me. I liked the campaign (started loving it but ended being too repetitive) and still play the multiplayer from time to time.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Agreed. "Wait 'till next E3 (or next year)" has been a thing since, what, 2015? 7 years and still no delivery. In MS's defense, though, they have spent billions to acquire companies that have done what they couldn't (create good new IPs). The exclusives will start to get delivered next year, for real this time. Or perhaps the following year, lol. But the trajectory is up, finally.
Yes, it's being done by throwing billions of dollars at the problem rather than building the culture internally. That's not ideal, but when you're MS, you can afford to just buy companies up. But, at least the exclusive games should be arriving in the next couple of years. I have to give them a sort of halfhearted credit for that.
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