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[Kiraly]

There's been a lot of discussion on the types of games that subscription services like Game Pass might allow or encourage or incentivise, so I found this interesting.

As part of a discussion with Rob Zacny on this Tuesday's Waypoint Radio, Obsidian's Josh Sawyer made it clear that Pentiment (a small scale, single-player, narrative adventure set in 16th Century Germany) would not exist were it not for Game Pass:

"I never would have proposed making Pentiment without Game Pass. Like, I literally just wouldn't have done it. I just don't think it would have been possible."

"The old mentality of Publishers and Developers is generally focussed on larger investments with higher ROI (return on investment), and that's not the point in this environment, in this ecosystem."
"(Game Pass) is the only way in which I conceive of (Pentiment) being viable."
"For my own sake, making a game so different, I've completely shifted my thinking for (Pentiment). It is so unusual, so niche, it's for a small audience, and as long as that audience is into it, that's fine."

As part of the same discussion Obsidian's Adam Brennecke made it clear that Grounded was already well underway before the Microsoft deal, and would have been the company's focus, without Game Pass entering the picture:

"(Grounded) was something that we'd been wanting to do at the studio for a while, make a survival game, and we already had buy in from Upper Management at (Obsidian)"
"I'm grateful that so many people on Game Pass can try out (Grounded) because the barrier of entry is so low, but it doesn't change the equation for me or my approach"

Some have made the case that a service like Game Pass will inevitably lead to a microtransaction riddled Games As A Service hellscape, as the lack of upfront revenue increases the pressure to make the difference up on the back end, but I think the GAAS hellscape was a perfectly realistic outcome of non-subscription models anyway.

I can only hope Game Pass gives us many more Pentiment's down the road.

Episode 523 - The Year of the Narrative Banger Continues with 'Pentiment'

One podcast, extra large, coming right up! It’s Pentiment release week and we’ve got a hankering for some 16th century murder mysteries! First up Rob talks to Obsidian’s Josh Sawyer and Adam Brennecke about working at Obsidian, dealing with crunch, and of course Pentiment. Then Rob and Ren go...

play.acast.com

 

[AV]

That's cool to hear and pretty much what I'm subscribed to Game Pass for. It's not like Microsoft is dropping enough AAA bangers each year to make it worth it.

This year alone I've played through Tunic, Midnight Fight Express, Norco and put them in my top 10, and tried 4/5 others too, not even got around to Pentiment or Somerville yet.

 

[jm89]

Breaking news: Person who works for xbox praises gamepass

 

[DenchDeckard]

Keep em coming! cant wait to jump into this.

 

[Synless]

Ok, so we just came in hot off the biggest indie generation for games like this and he wouldn’t have suggested if not for gamepass? He said it out loud, I’m not buying that.

 

[kikii]

well game looks like it would run on 8bit nintendo, i do wonder how we have became to this that graphics doesnt matter, so from c64 back to vic20 j/k hope u enjoy teh game =)

 

[tommib]

Ok, so we just came in hot off the biggest indie generation for games like this and he wouldn’t have suggested if not for gamepass? He said it out loud, I’m not buying that.

Yeah, let’s ignore critical and financially successful games like Disco Elysium. I think it’s great that the game is out and well done Microsoft for financing it but to pretend gamepass is the only passport to make your text adventure game… It’s PR.

 

[feynoob]

Breaking news: Person who works for xbox praises gamepass

Breaking news: people who don't keep up with gaming news, make assumptions of said subscription.

 

[Ozriel]

Ok, so we just came in hot off the biggest indie generation for games like this and he wouldn’t have suggested if not for gamepass? He said it out loud, I’m not buying that.

The entire pitch for the game doesn’t exactly scream “major seller”. Not to mention that talents like Josh Sawyer and the folks he pulled together to make this game are expensive.

It’s still going to cost MS/Obsidian a decent amount of money to make. Greenlighting is easier when retail sales numbers aren’t as important .

 

[jm89]

Breaking news: people who don't keep up with gaming news, make assumptions of said subscription.

 

[feynoob]

You know who.

 

[Ozriel]

Yeah, let’s ignore critical and financially successful games like Disco Elysium. I think it’s great that the game is out and well done Microsoft for financing it but to pretend gamepass is the only passport to make your text adventure game… It’s PR.

I don’t think the developers of Disco Elysium would describe their game as ‘incredibly niche’.

Comments like these are rather disingenuous when you can clearly see the initial response to DE reveal vs Pentiment reveal. How many folks here were derisively calling DE an ‘interactive picture book’?

 

[begotten]

Developer who has shipped many games already working for a large well established company now owned by an even bigger company - permitting a huge safety net.

"Thanks Gamepass for making my dreams come true with this game"

Would like to see Microsoft Gamepass enable some nobody developer or team that can actually spout this praise.

 

[jm89]

You know who.

Oh phil spencer gotcha.

 

[Ozriel]

Developer who has shipped many games already working for a large well established company now owned by an even bigger company - permitting a huge safety net.

Isnt that pretty much the premise of this thread? that Gamepass provided a safety net for him to make his experimental game?
You’re pretty much agreeing with him.

Would like to see Microsoft Gamepass enable some nobody developer or team that can actually spout this praise.

The hilarious thing is that we’ve had multiple developers of AA games say Gamepass was great for their games.

And then the goalpost moves to “That’s AA! We need to hear from an AAA dev”

None of this is in good faith.

 

[tommib]

I don’t think the developers of Disco Elysium would describe their game as ‘incredibly niche’.

Comments like these are rather disingenuous when you can clearly see the initial response to DE reveal vs Pentiment reveal. How many folks here were derisively calling DE an ‘interactive picture book’?

I get it. I also saw some of the blue team members calling it very quickly a PowerPoint presentation game. And I hate that. Game looks awesome and I’m bitter I can’t play it. But it’s not like obsidian is an underground game developer on their first game release.

Disco and Pentiment to me look at the same level in terms of being “niche”.

 

[FrankWza]

In an industry plagued by stagnation and monotony​

 

[begotten]

The hilarious thing is that we’ve had multiple developers of AA games say Gamepass was great for their games.

Of course it's great for improving their player base and recouping some development costs through the bag that every other publisher gets.

I want to see a sucess story about Gamepass or a program that greenlights actual original products no matter what the size or status of the developer is - or scope of the project. Sawyer peddling this stuff from a cozy position - where I doubt XGS actually gave a shit what he did, they just wanted content - doesn't mean much.

It'd be a good initiative.

 

[SeasonedInTheAbyss]

Wow. I just don't get this level of ignorance anymore. Sony, MS, Nintendo, Google, Apple ALL Have some form of subscription service now. And we are already in a hell that individual games charge you subscriptions in the forms of battle passes, daily login bonuses which they had to change from loot boxes to avoid gambling regulations.... just because your particular flavor of the month didn't have it doesn't mean your not gonna pay out down the line. The companies know it. And structure their systems to get you to pay again at some point or miss out. Da fuq.

 

[Chukhopops]

Developer who has shipped many games already working for a large well established company now owned by an even bigger company - permitting a huge safety net.

"Thanks Gamepass for making my dreams come true with this game"

Would like to see Microsoft Gamepass enable some nobody developer or team that can actually spout this praise.

https://www.levelup.com/en/news/697919/TUNIC-dev-says-Xbox-Game-Pass-is-a-great-option

https://venturebeat.com/games/tunic-creator-andrew-shouldice-on-indie-gaming-success/

GamesBeat: What is it like working with Microsoft? Tunic launched day one on Game Pass. What was that like?

Shouldice: Fantastic. Super great. Microsoft has, since the beginning, been very supportive. I think the moment for me that the game felt like it switched over from, hey, I’m working on this cool little thing and it’s gotten some press — when that changed to, oh wow, was the 2018 Microsoft Theater press conference where they had the trailer on the big screen. Everybody was there. Phil Spencer was talking about my hometown. It was truly amazing. The fact that they did that for, like I said — it’s not actually a “small” game. It’s not tiny. But it feels small to me, you know what I mean? Having them do that for something like that was very cool.

Need other examples?

 

[Rockman33]

Ok, so we just came in hot off the biggest indie generation for games like this and he wouldn’t have suggested if not for gamepass? He said it out loud, I’m not buying that.

Think your missing the point. Big studios RARLEY if ever make indie games. They are built for big expensive AAA games.

 

[TrueLegend]

The most weird thing thing about gamepass is that it has made me play some games that I wouldn't have otherwise, and not the AAA one'.

 

[feynoob]

Oh phil spencer gotcha.

How can you miss such an easy answer.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

The most weird thing thing about gamepass is that it has made me play some games that I wouldn't have otherwise, and not the AAA one's.

This is pretty much why Sawyer made that comment.

 

[Filben]

I mean, he literally said he wouldn't have proposed. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been possible. It's just his personal distrust, not uncalled for, in the AAA industry and major publishers and without Game Pass he wouldn't believe in it and wouldn't propose a game like that.

So in that sense Game Pass convinced at least one person and enabled this very game and let us have this game. There are more of course. But it doesn't say that this kind of games wouldn't exist without GamePass.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I get the general sentiment because the big advantage of a sub like this is that it removes risk from smaller projects, so although more experimental projects have been part of the industry for a long time there’s more incentive than ever to make them.

 

[feynoob]

Developers and publishers can't make games they want. They have to make games based on what the public wants.
It's why current games are not that great, like the past. The passion is gone, because publisher and developers wants profits.

A service like this removes the need for profit from sales.

Whether gamepass delivers or not, depends in the future.

 

[Interfectum]

Nonsense. A game like this could have easily gained some traction on Steam.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This is not the point of the controversy.

 

[Synless]

Think your missing the point. Big studios RARLEY if ever make indie games. They are built for big expensive AAA games.

Maybe, I guess we will never know now that gamepass is here.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I agree in that I don’t think it’s the type of game that would’ve been pitched to Microsoft, if there was no Game Pass.

Even if it were strictly GoG, Steam, and Itch.io I don’t think Pentiment would’ve been that big. Not without strong word of mouth.

Glad it turned out well for them.

 

[feynoob]

This is not the point of the controversy.

The controversy is from people who don't know the current industry situation.

Unfinished games, buggy games, mtx filled games. You name it.
It's a symptoms that has been growing too much these days.

Look at madden games for example. You pay 60$ and you get quality like that.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

So this model doesn't ONLY allow shovelware or micro transaction riddled GAAS titles to exist?

 

[SeasonedInTheAbyss]

So this model doesn't ONLY allow shovelware or micro transaction riddled GAAS titles to exist?

Vs what? Hit X to keep your shitty story moving?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The controversy is from people who don't know the current industry situation.

Unfinished games, buggy games, mtx filled games. You name it.
It's a symptoms that has been growing too much these days.

Look at madden games for example. You pay 60$ and you get quality like that.

Mmm neither.

The controversy stems from Phill Spencer's Promise land. The assumption and expectations of these AAA games Day One on Game Pass.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Vs what? Hit X to keep your shitty story moving?

This game even has exceptional writing and perhaps a good story (I am halfway through the game).

 

[feynoob]

Mmm neither.

The controversy stems from Phill Spencer's Promise land. The assumption and expectations of these AAA games Day One on Game Pass.

It already started.
You won't get what you want. But the day1 already got released to the service.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Vs what? Hit X to keep your shitty story moving?

At least these games have good combat. Unlike, press A to talk and talk and talk and then have shit combat like Skyrim and Starfield And then talk more. Talking sim much?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Obsidian has bigger things going on as well. I think it's great the MS is letting some of these smaller games get made and not focusing entirely on heavy hitters.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

UNCLE PHIL YOU SON OF BITCH

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It already started.
You won't get what you want. But the day1 already got released to the service.

It seems I am dealing with a cognitively deficient individual.

 

[gothmog]

Where did Josh say the Industry is plagued by stagnation and monotony?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

The most weird thing thing about gamepass is that it has made me play some games that I wouldn't have otherwise, and not the AAA one'.

This. That’s why I use the service. The MS games day one and occasional “big” game like Outriders or Sniper Elite 4, are just a bonus. There are tons of amazing smaller games on there I never would have tried and in some cases wouldn’t know existed if not for the service.

2022 has sucked for the “big” GamePass games (quantity wise, not quality) but 2023 seems pretty goddamn amazing. But smaller games wise, 2022 has been amazing. Faux concern has been flowing here about Xbox having no games and yet my backlog is growing.

 

[Godot25]

While Pentiment in particular is not my cup of tea I love the idea that Obsidian can spun off smaller teams to create something interesting not as a part of AAA game industry treadmill. Grounded was just great.

I really doubt Sony would allow same thing for Naughty Dog or SSM, while they allowed it in SSM in past thanks to their "incubation projects"

 

[DavidGzz]

An incredible amount of remakes and remasters sold for $70 and it's not stagnating? What's the latest innovation? Pentiment is pretty unique, even if you don't like it.

 

[feynoob]

It seems I am dealing with a cognitively deficient individual.

You just don't want to accept facts and reality.
Your bias is clouding your judgment.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I love what sub services can do as far as a cushion for unique indie experiences. I said a plethora of time the AAA space is creatively stagnant and it sucks because while I do enjoy many AAA games the over used mechanics become tiring. I'd love to see he larger game directors, todd howard, cory barlog, miyazaki, kojima, druckman etc all to do a single passion project outside of the AAA space. It's like when a big film director does an indie to remain creative.

 

[sachos]

That's one silver lining about GamePass im looking forward to if it ends becoming a reality.

 

[MacReady13]

I'm sorry- maybe I'm not reading things correctly but how exactly does a service like Gamepass allow a game like this to exist? Is he trying to say that without a service like Gamepass, this game would never have come to fruition??? Cause that sounds like utter bullshit to me. But I'd LOVE to know the reason why Gamepass and ONLY Gamepass allowed a game like this to be made.

 

[Roberts]

I love what sub services can do as far as a cushion for unique indie experiences. I said a plethora of time the AAA space is creatively stagnant and it sucks because while I do enjoy many AAA games the over used mechanics become tiring. I'd love to see he larger game directors, todd howard, cory barlog, miyazaki, kojima, druckman etc all to do a single passion project outside of the AAA space. It's like when a big film director does an indie to remain creative.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure Cuaron could have made Roma for one of the big studios but there would have been compronises, creative or budgetory. Yet he made exactly the movie he wanted to make for Netflix. I think it is not too far fetched to compare these teo cases.

P.S. Not even exactly a fan of Roma but I’m glad it exists.