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[Nirolak]

Or as my pappy use to say:
"It aint broke, don't fix it!"

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for more change however, especially if those changes can be added by just making a bigger product instead of drastically altering what people actually enjoy about the series.

As an example of this, adding specialist online modes designed around balance, quickplay, and ranking is a request that wouldn't effect all the other parts of Pokemon, but would add a new competitive dimension to the game for those who don't want to spend hundreds of hours breeding.

It's just the "this series should disappear for a long period of time" part I don't really understand.

 

[waicol]

That's not the same as "it ain't broke, keep rereleasing it for every new piece of hardware you release!"

What about?, "it ain't broke, make 3 installments of it in 6 months"

For some reason, I've always enjoyed the MK games in multiplayer but got bored in single player.

Then you are doing it right.

 

[cvxfreak]

PSP sales continue at a good pace. I wonder if people are even ready for Vita or are they just going to stick with PSP. The sales seem kind of high considering a replacement piece of hardware is due in a fortnight. DS was not this high before 3DS, right?

Just an interesting tidbit of info:

PS2 LTD at PS3 launch: 19,937,845
PSP LTD as of this week: 18,449,838

 

[udivision]

For some reason, I've always enjoyed the MK games in multiplayer but got bored in single player.

It is a MP focused game after all, no "some reason" about it.

 

[Jonnyram]

But aren't you supposed to play SP to unlock stuff for MP?

Ooh, interesting stats, cvxfreak!
What was PS1 at PS2 launch?

 

[cvxfreak]

But aren't you supposed to play SP to unlock stuff for MP?

Ooh, interesting stats, cvxfreak!
What was PS1 at PS2 launch?

I'm not sure since organized data doesn't go back that far, but between 2000 and 2004, about 2,291,000 PS1 were sold out of an eventual LTD of about 21,590,000.

So, I would estimate about 19 million.

 

[charlequin]

Sorry, this isn't very sales-y, I guess.

I'd love to hear you elaborate on this some. Is it the presentation, the increase in scenario since OoT, handholding...?

Yes, yes, and yes?

The core gameplay loop in Zelda is way too exposed, the dungeon -> item -> get stuff on worldmap -> repeat thing has been honed to a joyless tedium. Zelda is full of rewards that mean nothing (heart pieces when you can't possibly die, rupees that can't possibly be used for anything, bag upgrades to help you hold more of items you are pre-arranged to only need once or twice in a dungeon) and puzzles that are boiled down to the point of predictability.

Zelda 1 is a much rougher game around the edges in many ways but it also knows what it's about in a way that the series really hasn't in years. Link's Awakening crammed more depth and genuine surprise into the formula than anything else has managed since. Majora's Mask works in a completely unexpected and unrelated temporal angle that gives the whole game an extra layer of interest. The third-party Zeldas hack in RPG elements or attempts at action-game combat or other new stuff to freshen it up. Any of these would be a better template to iterate on next time around than just digging out the OoT map and tracing its contours again (much less the gimmicky nonsense in the DS games.)

The same thing that's wrong with every iterative sequel. At least Mario Kart only comes out once per platform, I guess.

MKDS was the first (and only) one I thought actually struck a good balance since MK64, and it had the single-player challenges which made it a bit more engaging. It still has that Nintendo elderly-person iteration thing though where they usually add nothing new, do nothing interesting to shake things up, just move the parts around a bit on the board.

I do think it's fundamentally true, though (only instance of sales content alert) that MK is basically fundamentally fun to play with friends in every iteration, though, whatever flaws it may or may not have, which is part of why it remains wildly successful, while Zelda is basically becoming less fun and certainly less exciting for the casual audience that used to buy it with every iteration (and I think that's true in all territories.)

Mario Kart isn't for me, and I'm not that fond of Zelda, but I don't really understand why someone would want the series to halt.

It's Nintendo, right? They're not going anywhere. I think taking such a long break from Metroid was pretty beneficial inasmuch as it brought about Metroid Prime and I think Zelda could use the same treatment at this point.

 

[Jonnyram]

I'm not sure since organized data doesn't go back that far, but between 2000 and 2004, about 2,291,000 PS1 were sold out of an eventual LTD of about 21,590,000.

So, I would estimate about 19 million.

Wow.
I only wonder if they'll wait for the PS3 to sell 19 million before putting the PS4 on the market!
They've been pretty consistent so far.

 

[Nirolak]

It's Nintendo, right? They're not going anywhere. I think taking such a long break from Metroid was pretty beneficial inasmuch as it brought about Metroid Prime and I think Zelda could use the same treatment at this point.

Well, the thing about Metroid though is that we got both Prime and the GBA games.

I don't think Nintendo actually has to stop making the regular Zelda games in order to try a new spin-off on the universe.

I mean, they are doing a giant hiring drive, so at least from a resource perspective it shouldn't be an issue: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454187

Whatever team is assigned to this spin-off could also take as long as they want since there's no pressure to get a Zelda game out immediately.

By the same token, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, and Mario Party all came out despite the continued existence of Mario platformers.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Sorry, this isn't very sales-y, I guess.



Yes, yes, and yes?

The core gameplay loop in Zelda is way too exposed, the dungeon -> item -> get stuff on worldmap -> repeat thing has been honed to a joyless tedium. Zelda is full of rewards that mean nothing (heart pieces when you can't possibly die, rupees that can't possibly be used for anything, bag upgrades to help you hold more of items you are pre-arranged to only need once or twice in a dungeon) and puzzles that are boiled down to the point of predictability.

Zelda 1 is a much rougher game around the edges in many ways but it also knows what it's about in a way that the series really hasn't in years. Link's Awakening crammed more depth and genuine surprise into the formula than anything else has managed since. Majora's Mask works in a completely unexpected and unrelated temporal angle that gives the whole game an extra layer of interest. The third-party Zeldas hack in RPG elements or attempts at action-game combat or other new stuff to freshen it up. Any of these would be a better template to iterate on next time around than just digging out the OoT map and tracing its contours again (much less the gimmicky nonsense in the DS games.)

Have you played Skyward Sword yet? I feel like it does a lot to address the specific complaints you've raised. The threat of death is real, there's a lot of stuff to spend money on, there are fewer items that are used more frequently throughout the entire game, the puzzles are interesting and break with conventions (for example, no torch lighting nonsense), your inventory space is limited to force you to choose between secondary equipment like bottles and shields, and the game is very densely focused. It's the biggest break with OoT that they've made; structurally the game is divided in two: a sky area, where you fly about and do sidequest, and the underworld, which is essentially a series of complex dungeon nesting dolls. The dread pre-dungeon period is instead spent in areas that may as well be dungeons. Since I'm a big fan of dungeons and the puzzles they entail, Skyward Sword has replaced Link's Awakening as my favorite Zelda game.

Of course, if you've played Skyward Sword and you disagree with me, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Izayoi]

Zelda is full of rewards that mean nothing (heart pieces when you can't possibly die, rupees that can't possibly be used for anything, bag upgrades to help you hold more of items you are pre-arranged to only need once or twice in a dungeon) and puzzles that are boiled down to the point of predictability.

Sounds to me like you haven't played SS, to be honest.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

So many people. Is that a record?

This year yep, although something like 4th overall (highest is this with 49). Funnily enough it was the FFXIII launch week which reminded me that I didn't realize Vita stuff would be on the same week as FFXIII-2, not sure if handling it like the 3DS launch or totally separate.

 

[Orgen]

If I had a dollar for everyone who used that mode, I still wouldn't have enough for a 3DS.

If I had a dollar for every dumb post you've made I could buy you two 3DS ;P

Did Prime sell tons in Japan?

No, but DKC is probably a million seller now.

And I think there's no reason to halt Zelda for an entire generation mainly because they are excellent games (IMO). Besides Nintendo won't halt Zelda because it always put respectable numbers WW, makes tons of profit and this is a business after all.

I'd wait until Nintendo's fiscal year numbers (31st March) to see how SS has performed. But this doesn't bode well for now and we have (hopefully) NPD numbers today, right? Let's see if SS has sold >1m in November or we can keep doing SS bomba jokes.

 

[AdventureRacing]

It's Nintendo, right? They're not going anywhere. I think taking such a long break from Metroid was pretty beneficial inasmuch as it brought about Metroid Prime and I think Zelda could use the same treatment at this point.

Are we talking sales or just our own personal view? In terms of sales i don't really see how the prime series is a good example for nintendo to follow.

From a personal perspective i agree that the prime series is fantastic. However i'm not sure the series needed to have such a large break for us to get the prime games. I also still prefer the 2D titles so the changes in the series didn't work out that great for me.

In terms of giving zelda a rest we just had to wait 5 years for an installment. I would rather nintendo just take the jump into HD as a chance to refocus and change up the series. I don't want to have to wait 6-7 years for another zelda especially when you consider how few quality games there are in that genre.

That plus i think SS was actually quite a good game so i'm not sure why they need to take as drastic measures as what you're suggesting.

 

[Road]

This year yep, although something like 4th overall (highest is this with 49). Funnily enough it was the FFXIII launch week which reminded me that I didn't realize Vita stuff would be on the same week as FFXIII-2, not sure if handling it like the 3DS launch or totally separate.

I didn't even remember the XIII one (two years ago...).

Yeah, XIII-2 will probably sell more than all Vita software (maybe even hardware) together, which would be a big outlier. You choose, since you're the one who'll have twice the work to calculate, while we'll just type numbers randomly. =P

 

[Kenka]

I suck ass at prediction with a straw.

 

[cvxfreak]

Wow.
I only wonder if they'll wait for the PS3 to sell 19 million before putting the PS4 on the market!
They've been pretty consistent so far.

10 year plan, baby!

 

[Cosmonaut X]

17 year plan, baby!

Fixed ;-)

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

If I had a dollar for every dumb post you've made I could buy you two 3DS ;P



No, but DKC is probably a million seller now.

And I think there's no reason to halt Zelda for an entire generation mainly because they are excellent games (IMO). Besides Nintendo won't halt Zelda because it always put respectable numbers WW, makes tons of profit and this is a business after all.

I'd wait until Nintendo's fiscal year numbers (31st March) to see how SS has performed. But this doesn't bode well for now and we have (hopefully) NPD numbers today, right? Let's see if SS has sold >1m in November or we can keep doing SS bomba jokes.

I thought Nintendo's press release had SS at ~550k through black Friday in NA?

I don't think a million is realistic if that's the case.

 

[DCharlie]

but got bored in single player.

it's an exercise in frustration because the gut reaction of trying to drive as best as you can will usually end in failure.

You are actively punished for being skillful and, whilst i enjoy Mario Kart, there's a large waft of bullshit about it's core mechanics in single player.

 

[Izayoi]

The only real punishment for being first place in Mario Kart are Blue Shells, and with enough practice and the proper timing, even they can be avoided (I just happen to suck).

Anyway this got way off track.

YEAH WOO DEM SALES LOOK AT DAT SHIT

 

[Laguna]

Since MH3G releases this Saturday, it will be interesting to see what Bandai and Sega plan with their similar games namely God Eater and Phantasy Star portable. Right now we only know about a new PSP installment for GodEater2 next year. Will they try to fill the MH-void on Vita, go multiplatform or even go exclusiv on 3DS? That´s something I´m looking forward to know since this two were among the best selling PSP titles.

 

[frankie_baby]

Since MH3G releases this Saturday, it will be interesting to see what Bandai and Sega plan with their similar games namely God Eater and Phantasy Star portable. Right now we only know about a new PSP installment for GodEater2 next year. Will they try to fill the MH-void on Vita, go multiplatform or even go exclusiv on 3DS? That´s something I´m looking forward to know since this two were among the best selling PSP titles.

Their success was basically riding on the coat tails of monster hunter so I'd be surprised to sequels as vita exclusives

 

[Alrus]

Since MH3G releases this Saturday, it will be interesting to see what Bandai and Sega plan with their similar games namely God Eater and Phantasy Star portable. Right now we only know about a new PSP installment for GodEater2 next year. Will they try to fill the MH-void on Vita, go multiplatform or even go exclusiv on 3DS? That´s something I´m looking forward to know since this two were among the best selling PSP titles.

Hmm, well if they're targeting the same users, the obvious choice would be to go on the 3DS. But I'm not sure the Phantasy Star fanbase overlaps that much with the MH one, the games are quite different.

God Eater is a more direct clone, so it should go on the 3DS if they want to ride on that fanbase again, but we won't see God Eater 3 for a while, considering the next one (and its possible expansion) are going to the PSP.

 

[Laguna]

So possibly 3DS may get 3 good selling PSP serieses with just one deal with Capcom?

 

[Tailzo]

Phantasy Star was also released for DS. I'd guess that both Vita and 3ds will get a PS game at some point.

 

[charlequin]

I don't think Nintendo actually has to stop making the regular Zelda games in order to try a new spin-off on the universe.

Sure, but, I mean, what's the benefit of continuing the franchise at its current rate? It helps Nintendo rest on their laurels, it lets them make a guaranteed (but shrinking) profit off each release, it keeps the "brand" visible -- I don't see these as particularly beneficial compared to the benefits of real, long-term curation.

I mean, institutional memory is a real challenge here. If we assume Zelda is on a slow franchise decline and it being overly formulaic is a contributor to that, how do you fix that problem without resting the series or handing it out to someone completely outside the current dev environment?

Sounds to me like you haven't played SS, to be honest.

I'll play it when it's $15.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I'll play it when it's $15.

So when it's released on Wii U2's Virtual Console?

 

[frankie_baby]

So when it's released on Wii U2's Virtual Console?

dont be silly, it'll be repackaged as "wiiU2 new play control : skyward sword", and it'll be $40

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

So possibly 3DS may get 3 good selling PSP serieses with just one deal with Capcom?

Are we 100% certain that Monster Hunter AND Monster Hunter Portable are going 3DS only?

I for one think that, although they're both portable, they'd probably continue as different series'

 

[frankie_baby]

Are we 100% certain that Monster Hunter AND Monster Hunter Portable are going 3DS only?

I for one think that, although they're both portable, they'd probably continue as different series'

its a pretty safe bet (at least for now)

 

[Takao]

Monster Hunter Portable isn't going to 3DS. But that's splitting hairs at this point.

 

[Truth101]

Monster Hunter Portable isn't going to 3DS. But that's splitting hairs at this point.

There isn't any reason to keep the portable brand alive now that the mainline series is on a portable...

 

[muu]

they went as far as to show MH4 in development, and the recent Iwata Asks revealed that the footage shown was in a playable state. All the MH teams are busy, and if they start on a PSP/Vita thing now it'd probably still be at least 2 years before it comes out.

Capcom's defections have primarily been from underdog to reigning console/handheld, so if that trend continues I can't imagine a PSV-specific Monster Hunter unless Sony can quickly make up for the 3million hardware sales deficit.

 

[Takao]

There isn't any reason to keep the portable brand alive now that the mainline series is on a portable...

This is true. Unless Crapcon does some "Portable for PlayStation" "main series for Nintendo" junk. But at this point, doing that would be pointless.

 

[KingDizzi]

There was never any doubt about how 3DS would do when the price was good enough, Nintendo have got Mario after all. But gosh Vita looks fucked, really hope as someone that has enjoyed handhelds over consoles this gen that Vita does do well enough to justify the system getting big 3rd party games.

The market being all for 3DS..........yuck. :/

Spoiler

I'll cringe at the "you mad bro" replies. I really don't want just 3DS games for the next five years when there is another handheld around that does everything better than 3DS expect the obvious 3D. Had this conversation before with MH and the replies for people wanting it on 3DS over Vita wa nothing expect basically "I'm poor and want everything on one system" or just plain old fanboy bullshit.

At least Mario Kart has done well and SS bombed, all it well for now.

 

[Spiegel]

they went as far as to show MH4 in development, and the recent Iwata Asks revealed that the footage shown was in a playable state. All the MH teams are busy, and if they start on a PSP/Vita thing now it'd probably still be at least 2 years before it comes out.

Capcom's defections have primarily been from underdog to reigning console/handheld, so if that trend continues I can't imagine a PSV-specific Monster Hunter unless Sony can quickly make up for the 3million hardware sales deficit.

Not true it seems. Apparently the old 'main' team (MH, MHDos, MHTri) was divided in two to work on MHTriG and MH4.

The MHP team should be free, but that doesn't mean that they are making a MH game.

 

[Takao]

There was never any doubt about how 3DS would do when the price was good enough, Nintendo have got Mario after all. But gosh Vita looks fucked, really hope as someone that has enjoyed handhelds over consoles this gen that Vita does do well enough to justify the system getting big 3rd party games.

The market being all for 3DS..........yuck. :/

Spoiler

I'll cringe at the "you mad bro" replies. I really don't want just 3DS games for the next five years when there is another handheld around that does everything better than 3DS expect the obvious 3D. Had this conversation before with MH and the replies for people wanting it on 3DS over Vita wa nothing expect basically "I'm poor and want everything on one system" or just plain old fanboy bullshit.

At least Mario Kart has done well and SS bombed, all it well for now.

You hope for the best for Vita, and don't like Zelda? I like you.

 

[frankie_baby]

There was never any doubt about how 3DS would do when the price was good enough, Nintendo have got Mario after all. But gosh Vita looks fucked, really hope as someone that has enjoyed handhelds over consoles this gen that Vita does do well enough to justify the system getting big 3rd party games.

The market being all for 3DS..........yuck. :/

Spoiler

I'll cringe at the "you mad bro" replies. I really don't want just 3DS games for the next five years when there is another handheld around that does everything better than 3DS expect the obvious 3D. Had this conversation before with MH and the replies for people wanting it on 3DS over Vita wa nothing expect basically "I'm poor and want everything on one system" or just plain old fanboy bullshit.

At least Mario Kart has done well and SS bombed, all it well for now.

personally i think after the first year there may be very very few (if any at all) 3rd party exclusives for vita, i'd expect it to get nothing more than some 3ds up-ports and ps3 down-ports

 

[Takao]

personally i think after the first year there may be very very few (if any at all) 3rd party exclusives for vita, i'd expect it to get nothing more than some 3ds up-ports and ps3 down-ports

I think this is less likely than Vita finding it's own Monster Hunter phenomenon.

 

[frankie_baby]

I think this is less likely than Vita finding it's own Monster Hunter phenomenon.

just my opinion, as also is my opinion that vita will have a very low install base meaning that anything other that what i'm suggesting wont make good business sense

 

[Chris1964]

Saturday will be a big day. Nothing impressive with today's releases.

 

[Mpl90]

Saturday will be a big day. Nothing impressive with today's releases.

But there are only 420k of shipment.
How can it be """big"""?










MY BODY IS READY!

 

[nckillthegrimace]

I'll play it when it's $15.

I don't think it's fair to use Zelda as an example of Nintendo resting on their laurels when Skyward Sword specifically address the concerns you listed in your earlier post. Certainly, if you play Skyward Sword and feel like it hasn't changed enough, then it would be well within reason to think that Nintendo should take a break from the series and rethink it. Personally, I think it shifted enough to keep me looking forward to the next game in the series. Instead of Zelda, I'd name things like Mario Kart, Mario Party, Animal Crossing, and New Super Mario Bros as series that represent sources of stagnation. These so-called "bridge games" are so slow to evolve because Nintendo is afraid of sabotaging the enormous sales potential that those games possess.

 

[mentalfloss]

There was never any doubt about how 3DS would do when the price was good enough, Nintendo have got Mario after all. But gosh Vita looks fucked, really hope as someone that has enjoyed handhelds over consoles this gen that Vita does do well enough to justify the system getting big 3rd party games.

The market being all for 3DS..........yuck. :/

It will be a distant second to 3DS, but it will sell just fine.

The market is big enough to sustain both.

 

[frankie_baby]

But there are only 420k of shipment.
How can it be """big"""?










MY BODY IS READY!

you never know maybe capcom if they have any sense (which we all know they dont) will have a second shipment ready to go

 

[djplaeskool]

It will be a distant second to 3DS, but it will sell just fine.

The market is big enough to sustain both.

This. If there's anything to take away from the DS/PSP era, is that being runner-up ain't bad.
Heck, with some of these recent announcements of JP devs enhancing mobile games and experiences for Vita, hopefully it will manage to bridge the gap.

 

[frankie_baby]

It will be a distant second to 3DS, but it will sell just fine.

The market is big enough to sustain both.

just because the market is big enough for both doesnt mean both will succeed

 

[Spiegel]

you never know maybe capcom if they have any sense (which we all know they dont) will have a second shipment ready to go

Hilarious.
Let's blame Capcom, they don't want MHTriG to sell good!

 

[Takao]

Hilarious.
Let's blame Capcom, they don't want MHTriG to sell good!

Well Capcom is a weird company. Sven said they knew Monster Hunter Portable would be a tough sell in the west given the series doesn't have an online mode. So rather than give that game an online mode, or encourage the team in Japan to include one in the sequels, Capcom gives Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom an online mode... Obviously that wasn't an either or scenario, but I found it weird they sprung for an online mode on Tats, but never Monster Hunter P...